The Future for the PRO14 - Part 8 - who’s next?

First topic message reminder :

South African media reports emerging around comments made at PRO14 launch by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander that South African players will be better off playing in the northern hemisphere.

Alexander hinted South African rugby could be heading north on a more permanent basis in the near future.

The Cheetahs and Kings joined the Pro14 last year and there is a strong possibility that two more local teams will be included in the competition next season.

‘It’s a long-term investment. We have options now and in future. At some point in time, in future, if we don’t want to stay in the south [in Super Rugby], we can move north,’ said Alexander.

He added that the involvement of local players and coaches in Europe is beneficial for South African rugby.

‘The Pro14 is a good competition for the players and coaches who’re playing against tier-one nations each weekend. When we become a full Pro14 member next season, we’ll be the only nation who plays in the north and the south, and the major benefit of playing in the northern hemisphere is the players are better off.

‘With the structure of the Pro14 competition the way it is, it’s easier for travelling, with distances between places less than in the south, and the time zones are also better. When you consider player welfare and what’s best for them, then the north is better.’

The rumors are that it will be the Griquas and Pumas who will be proposed by SARU next season as their two new teams.  How well that will be received by the other participating unions remains to be seen given the poor quality of the Kings thus far.    SARU plans to cut the number of professional players in their system from approx 900 to 400 odd using a draft system and to spread the talent across the 8 professional teams.

LD, any response to my lengthy reply above? Who did you (incorrectly) think I was previously? And do you have any response to my proposal? How can we move forward if we choose not to mix teams in leagues with different models? Where will our teams play?

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And that's not all you said. You claimed the pro14 forced the Welsh to accept decisions. And by extension your claiming that the pro14 is running against the Welsh, yet provided no proof

tell me where I have said this ?

"I payed a lot of money doing so, but myself, along with many others, are getting disillusioned with how pro rugby is being run in Wales, and more importantly, how we seem to bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14."

Is that it?

The Oracle wrote:LD, any response to my lengthy reply above? Who did you (incorrectly) think I was previously? And do you have any response to my proposal? How can we move forward if we choose not to mix teams in leagues with different models? Where will our teams play?

You were Griff, before you were Oracle. Why do I need to explain that ? We all know that.

I have answered the rest, I told you we are a quarter of the way there, because the WRU have already bought Dragons.

My personal dream would be for an 8 team Welsh county/regional league, that encompasses the whole of Wales, not just 4 towns/cities along the M4. Between the league, and Europe, and perhaps a Welsh cup, there would be plenty of fixtures, and perhaps with more travelling fans, more income would be generated through the gates, plus whatever TV deals, and sponsorships we could get, and some WRU funding. But that is just a pipe dream, like people who want to join the English league.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And that's not all you said. You claimed the pro14 forced the Welsh to accept decisions. And by extension your claiming that the pro14 is running against the Welsh, yet provided no proof

tell me where I have said this ?

"I payed a lot of money doing so, but myself, along with many others, are getting disillusioned with how pro rugby is being run in Wales, and more importantly, how we seem to bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14."

Is that it?

It could be, but I am not saying that the Irish are forcing us to do anything, am I ?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:And that's not all you said. You claimed the pro14 forced the Welsh to accept decisions. And by extension your claiming that the pro14 is running against the Welsh, yet provided no proof

tell me where I have said this ?

"I payed a lot of money doing so, but myself, along with many others, are getting disillusioned with how pro rugby is being run in Wales, and more importantly, how we seem to bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14."

Is that it?

It could be, but I am not saying that the Irish are forcing us to do anything, am I ?

Where's the irony meter when you need it?

No one said you mentioned the Irish

OK then, take the Irish out, where have I said the Pro14 have forced the Welsh into anything ?

LordDowlais wrote:

Brendan wrote:So what you are saying LD is that you want the WRU to take control right away. Because after all the majority are Union controlled, who seem to be doing grand.

Either that, or everyone else changes to private ownership.

Brendan wrote:If the private investors haven't put the structures in place over the last 15 years why would they start now

Nail on the head there. The thing is, the regions answer to nobody but themselves, well except for Dragons.

So LD you want the WRU to take control?

What you have said above implies you do as you have accepted that the private owners can't take the teams forward.

The upturn in Scottish Rugby seems to be them adjusting the Irish Model to themselves
If we're say their third team is the exiles who are too expensive the have 3 teams each with their own plan

Exiles
Players are either too expensive or not good enough. They are let go and if they become affordable or good enough they are resigned to the home teams

Glasgow & Warriors
Have set budgets and max salary cap
Internationals have set playing time (play 4 games one week off)
Move people between teams to get the right strenght and depth
High top class coaches and give them full backing (Cockrill is having a big say on and off the field)
Have them play in appropriate stadia (Edinburgh finally getting their small stadium and Glasgow expanding)
Bring in good overseas players who are value for money where a Scottish players can't be found (they have a good Fiji contact based on players signed)

If the Welsh regions just fixed the coaching tickets they'd improve. I think the WRU should hire Gats for a year to help the region coaching tickets.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:LD, any response to my lengthy reply above? Who did you (incorrectly) think I was previously? And do you have any response to my proposal? How can we move forward if we choose not to mix teams in leagues with different models? Where will our teams play?

You were Griff, before you were Oracle. Why do I need to explain that ? We all know that.

I have answered the rest, I told you we are a quarter of the way there, because the WRU have already bought Dragons.

My personal dream would be for an 8 team Welsh county/regional league, that encompasses the whole of Wales, not just 4 towns/cities along the M4. Between the league, and Europe, and perhaps a Welsh cup, there would be plenty of fixtures, and perhaps with more travelling fans, more income would be generated through the gates, plus whatever TV deals, and sponsorships we could get, and some WRU funding. But that is just a pipe dream, like people who want to join the English league.

8 teams? There is barely enough £££ to sustain the quality for 4 teams. And that is average quality. Not the quality needed for teams to get to the knockouts of the European Champions Cup.

8 teams would mean about 3 good players per team. The overall quality of that league would be awful. Meaning the income it would generate would also be awful.

Jesus, just got knocked over on the pavement! Got caught in the rush of media and executives sprinting their way to Wales to sign multi million TV / sponsorship deals for an 8 team Welsh league.

Dowlais, please could you give some warning before throwing out such brilliant ideas in future

LordDowlais wrote:

My personal dream would be for an 8 team Welsh county/regional league, that encompasses the whole of Wales, not just 4 towns/cities along the M4. Between the league, and Europe, and perhaps a Welsh cup, there would be plenty of fixtures, and perhaps with more travelling fans, more income would be generated through the gates, plus whatever TV deals, and sponsorships we could get, and some WRU funding. But that is just a pipe dream, like people who want to join the English league.

Pretty decent plan/dream, I'd say.

It seems to be considered unworkable based on population concentrations/topography/transport etc - but trying to get a wider physical area of Wales involved actively and feeling 'ownership' of a team or two, would be my view of an ideal to be chased after too.

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, take the Irish out, where have I said the Pro14 have forced the Welsh into anything ?

bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:LD, any response to my lengthy reply above? Who did you (incorrectly) think I was previously? And do you have any response to my proposal? How can we move forward if we choose not to mix teams in leagues with different models? Where will our teams play?

You were Griff, before you were Oracle. Why do I need to explain that ? We all know that.

I have answered the rest, I told you we are a quarter of the way there, because the WRU have already bought Dragons.

My personal dream would be for an 8 team Welsh county/regional league, that encompasses the whole of Wales, not just 4 towns/cities along the M4. Between the league, and Europe, and perhaps a Welsh cup, there would be plenty of fixtures, and perhaps with more travelling fans, more income would be generated through the gates, plus whatever TV deals, and sponsorships we could get, and some WRU funding. But that is just a pipe dream, like people who want to join the English league.

You said: “Well they are a quarter of the way there now, because your beloved team are union owned, a union who you used to derive under your last pseudonym.” What on earth does that last bit mean, and what does it have to do with my previous username of Griff? I haven’t changed my thinking or posting style since signing up to 606 for a second time? Explain yourself.

On you 2nd point, re. your dream. Thanks for the reply. You’re obviously entitled to that opinion so I won’t be overly critical. But I do not feel that is feasible given the lack of money currently. Those teams would only be half as good as they are now, which would mean they’d be pretty awful. We just haven’t go enough players to make that many teams competitive. They wouldn’t be able to afford to buy in players from abroad so my fear for this idea is that the teams would be filled with Welsh Premiership players so the standard would be much lower than it is currently. We wouldn’t put get far in the cup competitions. And our test players would not develop as well as they are now.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Really? Yet actual expenditure within accounts prove he's right, funny that

SRU 2016/17 International and Professional Rugby 24,967,000
Ulster Rugby 2016/17 10.1m
Scarlets 2016/17 11,042,877
Ospreys 2016/17 9,657,109
Cardiff Blues 2016/17 9,803,981

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

And what is their budget?

The Oracle wrote:

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

Well, if Scotland had two more sides, I'd assume for a good while, two or one of those sides would have a budget close to Dragons.

So in Scotland it's the lack of teams that allows 2 to justify reasonable budgets.

In Ireland, it might be population that allows reasonable budgets for four?

Wales is in a conundrum of sorts - somewhere between the two extremes; four sides with half Ireland's population.

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

And what is their budget?

Again, £4.5m.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

And what is their budget?

Again, £4.5m.

Where are Abbott and Costello when you need them?

That's the WAGE budget

What is the actual budget for running the club?

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

And what is their budget?

Again, £4.5m.

Where are Abbott and Costello when you need them?

That's the WAGE budget

What is the actual budget for running the club?

No idea. I’m talking about squad budget as that is what the regions need to increase in terms of investment in order to compete. That’s where we either need to have the WRU chuck a load of millions in, or secure millions more private investment, or do a combination. That is where we are talking about making changes to either reduce the regions, or move to 3 regions, or 3+1, or 2+2 in order to increase wage budget to concentrate the talent and improve the competitiveness of the teams.

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

TJ wrote: The welsh teams are not disadvantaged financially.  they have very similar budgets to the scots teams and all the irish bar Leinster.

You've been given numbers and figures that disprove this. It has been ratified by the Welsh media, and the Chairmen of the Welsh regions themselves.

Yet you still spout this awful, inaccurate nonsense.

Yeah, this comment by TJ is a bit odd. The Dragons’ wage budget is £4.5m. I’d love to know which Scots and Irish team that is similar to.

It's not odd, he said they aren't disadvantaged financially

Whose budget is similar to the Dragons budget?

And what is their budget?

Again, £4.5m.

Where are Abbott and Costello when you need them?

That's the WAGE budget

What is the actual budget for running the club?

No idea. I’m talking about squad budget as that is what the regions need to increase in terms of investment in order to compete. That’s where we either need to have the WRU chuck a load of millions in, or secure millions more private investment, or do a combination. That is where we are talking about making changes to either reduce the regions, or move to 3 regions, or 3+1, or 2+2 in order to increase wage budget to concentrate the talent and improve the competitiveness of the teams.

Why are you talking about wage budget though? TJ was talking about finances as a whole yet you focus on one element of the finances?

If Dragons are pending £10m a year across the board do you not see the issue there?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, take the Irish out, where have I said the Pro14 have forced the Welsh into anything ?

bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14

Again, where is it saying forced ?

SecretFly wrote:Wales is in a conundrum of sorts - somewhere between the two extremes; four sides with half Ireland's population.

More of a case of 4 sides all squashed into the bottom of Wales. North Wales and Mid Wales are not represented by pro rugby.

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

The Welsh wanted to get bent over and agreed to every glorious second.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, take the Irish out, where have I said the Pro14 have forced the Welsh into anything ?

bend over and except our lot with regards to the Pro14

Again, where is it saying forced ?

If it's not forced what was the implication you were trying to make?

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Wales is in a conundrum of sorts - somewhere between the two extremes; four sides with half Ireland's population.

More of a case of 4 sides all squashed into the bottom of Wales. North Wales and Mid Wales are not represented by pro rugby.

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

In my naivety, I said all that years ago and nearly had my head handed to me - genuinely, the scalding rebukes came by the bucket load: "ignorant comments...it's much more complex than that.... there is not enough population outside the South to justify a Region going anywhere else.... most of the rugby heartland is in the south.... stop waffling just for the sake of it, fly!"

Now whilst that last bit might be highly accurate .... that was the gist.

Now, you, as a Welshman, are telling me that another Region in mid Wales is easily viable?

The Oracle wrote:a union who you used to derive under your last pseudonym.” What on earth does that last bit mean, and what does it have to do with my previous username of Griff? I

Sorry, I only just noticed this, this is down to auto correct, it should say deride, not derive.

SecretFly wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Wales is in a conundrum of sorts - somewhere between the two extremes; four sides with half Ireland's population.

More of a case of 4 sides all squashed into the bottom of Wales. North Wales and Mid Wales are not represented by pro rugby.

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

In my naivety, I said all that years ago and nearly had my head handed to me - genuinely, the scalding rebukes came by the bucket load:  "ignorant comments...it's much more complex than that.... there is not enough population outside the South to justify a Region going anywhere else.... most of the rugby heartland is in the south.... stop waffling just for the sake of it, fly!"

Now whilst that last bit might be highly accurate .... that was the gist.

Now, you, as a Welshman, are telling me that another Region in mid Wales is easily viable?

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

It's why a lot of the Welsh members on here give me such a hard time. Because by me saying things like that, it adds fuel to the fact that perhaps, how ever unlikely, it would come at a cost to one of their teams.

In the dictionary:

To Griff: Antagonistic criticism of Rugby Union organisations (mostly relating to WRU)


It's all there in Black and White. You gotta love Webster's.

LordDowlais wrote:

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

You can't 'represent' the whole of Wales without having teams that are from each county. Sort of the same as Ireland has now. Wales doesn't have that. They are clubs not representative sides.

Wales is the representative side.

Same as in England. I would guess that not many people from Sunderland support Newcastle Falcons, because Newcastle Falcons don't represent the whole region. People support who they like. Not because there is a line on a map that tells them to.

LordDowlais wrote:

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

Yup. If they too have a Chairman with a net worth of £96m.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

You can't 'represent' the whole of Wales without having teams that are from each county. Sort of the same as Ireland has now. Wales doesn't have that. They are clubs not representative sides.

Wales is the representative side.

Same as in England. I would guess that not many people from Sunderland support Newcastle Falcons, because Newcastle Falcons don't represent the whole region. People support who they like. Not because there is a line on a map that tells them to.

Over half the Welsh population are not represented by Pro rugby, that's where we a re failing.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

Yup. If they too have a Chairman with a net worth of £96m.

Stan Thomas, cough, cough.....

LordDowlais wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

Yup. If they too have a Chairman with a net worth of £96m.

Stan Thomas, cough, cough.....

I look forward to the council building a 15,000 stadium in conjunction with Mr Thomas, and the WRU agreeing the business plan he puts forward for the club to becoming a pro team.

LordDowlais wrote:
Over half the Welsh population are not represented by Pro rugby, that's where we a re failing.

There is no solution where all the population would be prepared to turn up to Pro rugby matches in Wales.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

You can't 'represent' the whole of Wales without having teams that are from each county. Sort of the same as Ireland has now. Wales doesn't have that. They are clubs not representative sides.

Wales is the representative side.

Same as in England. I would guess that not many people from Sunderland support Newcastle Falcons, because Newcastle Falcons don't represent the whole region. People support who they like. Not because there is a line on a map that tells them to.

Why would you have to name a 'Region' as Newcastle Falcons or even Falcons? If you meant to Regionalise something which up to that point hadn't been regionalised on a map, then surely you'd at least try to come up with a title that wasn't going to turn off your prospective fans. In short, I doubt Sunderland people would be forced to 'support' Newcastle Falcons - there would be a name change/home base change/new ground.
It's like saying Leinster would be smug enough to use the GAA term 'Dublin' - and still look for all-Leinster support.

Mid Wales?! Behave.

North Wales, yes if they can put together a good enough business plan then I believe they have the population to support it. Do they have the interest? Who knows. But it’s an option.

The Valleys - that is South Wales. Pretty difficult to club the valleys and mid Wales together as the Brecon Beacons is smack bang in between them. All of the valleys towns are within 20 miles or so of the current regions. If you’re worried about ‘bunching’ in the south then another region in the valleys would make it even more bunched.

Mid Wales - pretty much all small towns and a small area, geographically. The biggest towns in mid wales are Llandrindod Wells (population 5309), Welshpool (6600), Newtown, (11,000), Rhayader (2088), Builth Wells (2568), Llanidloes (2929), etc. To put that into perspective, you’d need pretty much every single person in all of those towns, every man, woman and child, to attend a regional match based there in order to get near the attendances Leinster get. It’s just not going to happen. It’s just not viable, in my opinion. And where would they play? Who would build a new stadium for it? They’re all small towns with small town sports facilities, unfortunately.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

Yup. If they too have a Chairman with a net worth of £96m.

Stan Thomas, cough, cough.....

I look forward to the council building a 15,000 stadium in conjunction with Mr Thomas, and the WRU agreeing the business plan he puts forward for the club to becoming a pro team.

Why do we need to build one that size ?

Only one of the other regions has a stadium with that capacity, and they do not own it. We have Penydarren park in Merthyr that has a maximum capacity of 9,000 that will do for starters. Sardis Road in Pontypridd will hold around 8,000, Eugine cross park has the same. We could develop these grounds.

When you consider Rodney Parade only holds 11,000, then we are not a million miles away up here. When you consider what the four regions had starting out, then it is feasible.

LordDowlais wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I have always said this. Always. If a town the size of Llanelli with a population of 30,000 people can sustain one, then logic would say that the valleys could, or north Wales.

Yup. If they too have a Chairman with a net worth of £96m.

Stan Thomas, cough, cough.....

I look forward to the council building a 15,000 stadium in conjunction with Mr Thomas, and the WRU agreeing the business plan he puts forward for the club to becoming a pro team.

Why do we need to build one that size ?

Only one of the other regions has a stadium with that capacity, and they do not own it. We have Penydarren park in Merthyr that has a maximum capacity of 9,000 that will do for starters. Sardis Road in Pontypridd will hold around 8,000, Eugine cross park has the same. We could develop these grounds.

When you consider Rodney Parade only holds 11,000, then we are not a million miles away up here. When you consider what the four regions had starting out, then it is feasible.

‘Up here’? You are based in South Wales LD! I drive to work from Newport to ‘The Valleys’ every day in about 25mins. It is not far enough away to have a region of its own. It’s just adding to the problem that you have already highlighted. A valleys region would make the situation worse, not solve it.

SecretFly wrote:
Why would you have to name a 'Region' as Newcastle Falcons or even Falcons?  If you meant to Regionalise something which up to that point hadn't been regionalised on a map, then surely you'd at least try to come up with a title that wasn't going to turn off your prospective fans.  In short, I doubt Sunderland people would be forced to 'support' Newcastle Falcons - there would be a name change/home base change/new ground.
It's like saying Leinster would be smug enough to use the GAA term 'Dublin' - and still look for all-Leinster support.

Exactly. You've got it in one.

Because they aren't regions. They aren't supposed to represent every square inch of the country on the map.

One last time lord.
You have claimed that in the pro14 there have been decisions made that the Welsh just "except".
Can you first explain what you mean by this.
Second. Give one decision that you believe the Welsh and regions "bent over and excepted"

LordDowlais wrote:

Why do we need to build one that size ?

Only one of the other regions has a stadium with that capacity, and they do not own it. We have Penydarren park in Merthyr that has a maximum capacity of 9,000 that will do for starters. Sardis Road in Pontypridd will hold around 8,000, Eugine cross park has the same. We could develop these grounds.

When you consider Rodney Parade only holds 11,000, then we are not a million miles away up here. When you consider what the four regions had starting out, then it is feasible.

Ospreys and Scarlets have both held rugby matches with attendances over the 15,000 mark LD.

As I said though, go for it. See how far Mr Thomas gets.

carpet baboon wrote:One last time lord.
You have claimed that in the pro14 there have been decisions made that the Welsh just "except".
Can you first explain what you mean by this.
Second. Give one decision that you believe the Welsh and regions "bent over and excepted"

Still waiting on RF100 apologising to TJ for claiming the figures proved him wrong, funny that

carpet baboon wrote:One last time lord.
You have claimed that in the pro14 there have been decisions made that the Welsh just "except".
Can you first explain what you mean by this.
Second. Give one decision that you believe the Welsh and regions "bent over and excepted"

Allowing Irish provinces to be reffed by Irish refs for a start.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

There are a million people living in the valleys and mid Wales, plenty there, north Wales has three quarters of a million people living there, that are not represented as well.

You can't 'represent' the whole of Wales without having teams that are from each county. Sort of the same as Ireland has now. Wales doesn't have that. They are clubs not representative sides.

Wales is the representative side.

Same as in England. I would guess that not many people from Sunderland support Newcastle Falcons, because Newcastle Falcons don't represent the whole region. People support who they like. Not because there is a line on a map that tells them to.

Which takes us to another one of the 606 classics "the valleys team and where to base it".

The Oracle wrote:‘Up here’? You are based in South Wales LD! I drive to work from Newport to ‘The Valleys’ every day in about 25mins. It is not far enough away to have a region of its own. It’s just adding to the problem that you have already highlighted. A valleys region would make the situation worse, not solve it.

No it wouldn't.

Newport and Cardiff should be one team, for a start, then Swansea and Llanelli should be one team, then a mid Wales/Valleys team, and a North Wales team.

That would do nicely thankyou very much.

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:One last time lord.
You have claimed that in the pro14 there have been decisions made that the Welsh just "except".
Can you first explain what you mean by this.
Second. Give one decision that you believe the Welsh and regions "bent over and excepted"

Allowing Irish provinces to be reffed by Irish refs for a start.

But they're ok with Welsh reffing Welsh teams? Scottish refs? You think the anti Irish bias would be something you'd at least try to mask

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:‘Up here’? You are based in South Wales LD! I drive to work from Newport to ‘The Valleys’ every day in about 25mins. It is not far enough away to have a region of its own. It’s just adding to the problem that you have already highlighted. A valleys region would make the situation worse, not solve it.

No it wouldn't.

Newport and Cardiff should be one team, for a start, then Swansea and Llanelli should be one team, then a mid Wales/Valleys team, and a North Wales team.

15,000 - 20,000 season ticket holders gone.