England's Indian Summer - T20s, ODIs & Tests

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guildfordbat wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:The toss has proven to be most significant factor in the entire series. Root was fortunate he won the toss in every match - despite he moronic decision to bowl in Nottingham. Had the tosses been the opposite way around we could easily be 0-4 down as Kohli would've batted in Nottingham anyway.

The side is clearly in decline once Anderson and Broad leave the scene we may well struggle to even win at home.

Curran has been a decent find more for his batting, bowling isn't anything to write home about yet.

Moeen a decent comeback but his issues are he's hopeless away from England.

Cook and Jennings need scores at the Oval or i would hope both are dropped for Sri Lanka.

Root has shown in this series he's not of the class of a Smith, Kohli or Williamson. His stock has fallen big time.

Dropping is easy. Replacing is less so.

Burns and Vince. Need someone to get after the bowling on the Sri Lankan sandpits and Vince is a decent player of spin. Burns the guy the try and hold up an end.

Yeah its the lack of alternatives that gor him the recall in the first place.

But again hes shown signs here at least of having learnt how to stay in.

As craig says its looking good if not secure.

Every run really counts now ...and another collapse could change the picture but seeing off the new ball is a huge step even if theyve struggled to keep the scoreboard ticking.

Two reviews wasted by India. Kohli simmering.

Jennings clean bowled by Shami. Cracking delivery that and at least Shami is rewarded. Jennings goes for 10. England 27 for 1 leading by 67 runs.

I still say Jennings will be selected for Sri Lanka.

Sorry but there is absolutely no reason for Keaton Jennings to be on those winter tours - he’s just not upto international standard, in any shape or form. Woeful woeful dismissal again

Lack of alternatives isn’t a reason to take a failing player. Would rather they opened with a dasher like Vince or Roy

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Sorry but there is absolutely no reason for Keaton Jennings to be on those winter tours - he’s just not upto international standard, in any shape or form. Woeful woeful dismissal again

Lack of alternatives isn’t a reason to take a failing player. Would rather they opened with a dasher like Vince or Roy

Just to say I am not saying I want him on the tour just stating what I think the selectors will do.

If they were planning on not taking him prior to this test they would not have played him here. And I cannot see them now axing him and starting the Sri Lanka series with potentially two debutant openers untried at test level.

Jennings not enjoying the sunshine...

Not a very good leave. I don't know , Craig...they are surely going to be wondering if there is any point in sending Jennings on the tour ? I mean , his record has gone from poor to appalling with not much in the way of "promise". Confidence must be pretty low too...

alfie wrote:Jennings not enjoying the sunshine...

Not a very good leave.  I don't know , Craig...they are surely going to be wondering if there is any point in sending Jennings on the tour ? I mean , his record has gone from poor to appalling with not much in the way of "promise".  Confidence must be pretty low too...

Either way it does not reflect well on the selectors. They either take him when he has a very patchy test record and that is being kind to him or they drop him. However, if they do that then it must be asked why not look at a new opener for this test instead of persevering with a player who was not destined to tour.

Placing bets the Internet will soon be full of calls for Buttler to open the batting

Probably with Sam Curran.

How long has Strauss been gone now ? Six years ? You'd think by throwing darts at a board they'd have found someone by now who could at least average thirty as an opener ...law of averages and all ?

Maybe the priority should be selecting an opener who can field well at slip and not worry too much about the scoring...

Where has this idea that Jennings plays spin well come from? He was out awfully in the first innings, has struggled against Ashwin when he’s played too. I don’t watch him and think he’s comfortable against spin at all!

He can’t tour in the winter, just can’t. Would take someone who has zero experience and is unproven in the hope they can make it work, than someone like Jennings who is a proven failure at this level now

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Where has this idea that Jennings plays spin well come from? He was out awfully in the first innings, has struggled against Ashwin when he’s played too. I don’t watch him and think he’s comfortable against spin at all!

He can’t tour in the winter, just can’t. Would take someone who has zero experience and is unproven in the hope they can make it work, than someone like Jennings who is a proven failure at this level now

I think it stems from his sole test century against India in India. I am with you incidentally but I fear the writing is on the wall.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Where has this idea that Jennings plays spin well come from? He was out awfully in the first innings, has struggled against Ashwin when he’s played too. I don’t watch him and think he’s comfortable against spin at all!

He can’t tour in the winter, just can’t. Would take someone who has zero experience and is unproven in the hope they can make it work, than someone like Jennings who is a proven failure at this level now

Century and a fifty in his first two Tests , in India. Admittedly on pitches on which India made about 900...

I agree he's not the future . But Smith strikes me as a bit of a stubborn so and so...a good match for Bayliss ; so - who knows what they'll do ?

Ali dropped at third slip. England 55 for 1. Lead by 95.

Boy that first fifty has been a bit of a struggle...guess there is plenty of time left in the game so no hurry ; but you feel if the bowlers are under no pressure of run-scoring they are likely to do some damage sooner or later...

Nearly then ! Rahul doesn't miss many...Moeen enjoying some fortune this afternoon. Ishant not amused.

That lead pushing a hundred now

alfie wrote:

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Where has this idea that Jennings plays spin well come from? He was out awfully in the first innings, has struggled against Ashwin when he’s played too. I don’t watch him and think he’s comfortable against spin at all!

He can’t tour in the winter, just can’t. Would take someone who has zero experience and is unproven in the hope they can make it work, than someone like Jennings who is a proven failure at this level now

Century and a fifty in his first two Tests , in India.  Admittedly on pitches on which India made about 900...

I agree he's not the future . But Smith strikes me as a bit of a stubborn so and so...a good match for Bayliss ; so - who knows what they'll do ?

I was going to say, in the match he made a hundred so did Jayant Yadav, and in the match he made a fifty Karun Nair made a triple hundred (shudder) - also in his two other innings that series he got a duck, and 1

I fear they will take him for this weird "experience" thing they'll want - albeit what positive "experience" Jennings brings is beyond all of us...!

Experience is fine if you bring something to the side with it. He doesn't for me I am afraid.

Ali bowled by Jadeja and he goes for 20. England 62 for 2 and lead by 102.

Root off to a better start...

I'm getting very tired...can you fellows keep these two safe to stumps if I call it a night ?

With this England side's batting currently there are no guarantees alfie.

Cook edging towards one last test 50 is now on 40. Root looking better on 13. Lead now 128.

Cook and Root partnership reaches 50 and the lead now 152. Cook 45 and Root 28.

And England close the third day on 114 for 2 leading by 154. Cook will return tomorrow on 46 in search of one last test 50 or century and Root on 29.

England surely set to set a target of between 250 and 300.

Another 30 from Cook will push him up to fifth in the all-time Test run-getting table. A hundred would be fairy tale stuff. Should Moeen bat at three? Surely he's far more dangerous coming in at, say, seven.
Wonder what would have happened if Jadeja had played more in this series. His batting would have helped and it seems clear that Ashwin was not fully fit. Still scratching my head at the idea that come Tuesday England could well have won this series 4-1. Or is there one final batting collapse to come from the home side?

England winning this series 4-1, as they're on course to do, would be completely and utterly bizarre. Some of the finest English performances over the years have yielded far inferior returns than that.

Cook needs another 4 runs to have a test average of 45. Jennings has failed final-chance-part-six and surely won't go to Sri Lanka (except he surely will).

--Well India is fighting....in with an outside chance if they can polish off Eng quickly like they have many times
Most likely.....will get about 270-300ish target....and will finish 60 runs short

going down the same script as T1 & T4

--India just doesn't have enough resources to cross the finish line as Kohli calls it......especially AFTER LOSING THE TOSS

I am convinced with tosses won, the score-line would have been different
That's not an excuse but an Observation

--India has an excellent seam attack, very good spinners, the "fitness" of ashwin notwithstanding....he did bowl well in first 3 tests...& Kohli is playing the series of his life with the bat

BUT until this test...their lower 6 and top 2 didn't get runs....someone runs the averages...I think the average won't be even 12 from those positions

While vihari generates Hope...I am appalled by

1) Pant not looking like putting bat to ball...after averaging 52 in ranji and ripping ranji attacks apart

2) shami...bats like he has a donkey brain implant in his head...he is much more capable

--Indian composition should try to have Bhuvi, Ashwin and jadeja.....in addition to being top bowlers....they can all bat
India should not drop from reckoning Jayant Yadav...he can bat too....and should look closely at Shankar a


I don't see how Pandya will fit in in the team composition......i thought of him as talent.....but he hasn't played much first class...and not going thru the grind of Ranji makes it harder to play test cricket

Rahane will be under pressure too...but has still more rope

rahul has been wasted in tests...by his desire to excel in ODIs and T20

Yeah England well on top now - should be looking to bat until post tea tomorrow and build that lead around 350-400 if possible. Would be amazing if Cook can make that fairytale century

It is evident what divides the teams. England have taken their chances better in matches and rammed home their advantage. India haven't. India have been on the front foot having England six wickets down but have not bowled England out cheaply. That is the difference between the sides and quite a wide one.

Both sides have their own Achilles Heel. England's top order has failed to deliver and slip catches have let them down. India's top order has fared little better but they have had Kohli. Their inability to bowl the tail out cheaply has cost them as well as being unable to chase down gettable targets.

In short both sides have their weaknesses but when the chips were down England produced whilst India didn't hence the scoreline.

Fairly simple road map for today, with England 150 ahead for 2 wickets down:-

England: Bat normally through to lunch, hopefully with Cook getting towards 3 figures and the score towards 200. Start to press on in the afternoon, with the aim of getting a lead of about 350 preferably with enough time to have a little bowl before tea, and get India say 3 down by the close. Having said that, given we don't need to win in the series context, we might have a bit of a delayed declaration if the batting is going well.

India - take wickets to chip away, with the aim to keep the lead under control. Given England's susceptibility to a batting collapse, restricting us to another 100 ish should be their ideal target. A chase of 250 or so would be tough, but only really needs one good partnership to get close.

Has any side scored more than 400 this series in an innings?  All I can recall is shaky to poor batting - scrambling to around 250 to 330.  The only batsman who has been convincing has been Kohli - but not particularly in the 4th and 5th test.  With England some of the mid-order and bowlers have batted England out of severe danger at times.

No name Bertie wrote:Has any side scored more than 400 this series in an innings?  All I can recall is shaky to poor batting - scrambling to around 250 to 330.  The only batsman who has been convincing has been Kohli - but not particularly in the 4th and 5th test.  With England some of the mid-order and bowlers have batted England out of severe danger at times.

No side has scored over 400 runs in an innings. If it stays that way as looks odds on now that will be the first time that has happened in a five test series in England since 1972.

Dummy....the roadmaps are really pointless in this series. We know only too well that every time it looks like things are going one way the game gets turned on its head, either by a ridiculous stand that never should have happened ...or by an entire batting line up imploding.

The only predictable aspect has been Jennings out for under 30.

Big question ...if (IF) England build up a monster lead over 400 and Cook is still in, does Root end his career with a declaration this afternoon? I guess in some ways it would be nice to end n/o...but what if hes in the 180's

If England do win this series 4-1 you have to take account of the effect of the toss. Aside from the bad decision they made in one test they've had by far the better of the batting/bowling conditions and it shouldn't come as any shock its that one they made the stupid decision in that they lost. Theres only one test they won at a canter.... and that was the one arguably they gained the biggest advantage from the toss in.
Theres been series that they've been on the rough end of it before (home and away) and yes its all part of the game but you that cant take away from the effect its undoubtedly had on these games. Nor should it be allowed to mask the difficulties England still face ...especially when they go away from conditions that suit their bowlers. Yes their top order might have a bit more success batting first up on flat pitches over the winter but they still don't have a seamer who looks like they could make something happen without damp conditions and a dukes ball.


In terms of the low scores ... well that's partly down to how extreme the conditions have been, theres not been a full sunny day or a placid pitch (How often is Lords a low scorer?) . Conditions have really favoured attacking bowling, and unusually for England all the pitches have taken spin for at least part of the test. Add to that that both teams lack defensive batsmen ( Cook and Pujara aside). Both teams have also been able to play a good number of proper bowlers (in Englands case 6 for some tests!) so we haven't seen long spells of part timers fiddling through overs as may have been the case in most past series. Had the catching been better (and Pants keeping) scores may have been even lower. That said England would've made 400 in the second test (396/7) had they not declared. They absolutely had the best conditions of the game to bat in, and India had made a terrible selection gamble on Yadav leaving them with only 2 genuinely good front line seamers.

The test threads have been full of the lambasting of England's batting and rightly so. Of course it needs addressing but I wouldn't trust the selectors to think out of the box here. They are taking pats on the back for two selection calls - the recalls of Buttler and Moeen. Hardly, ground-breaking choices. Lets see them unearth an opener who can hack it at test level, a top notch spinner and a bowler or two with serious pace who can bowl abroad then they will have earned their pats on the back.

Too many posts on here come across with the undertone of England bad and India unlucky. I just don't buy that at all. Sure England won the toss but have put their weakest element of their side on show opting to bat first a lot of the times so kind of negates the winning of the toss especially when the pitches have been doing so much from the get go. In any case both sides openers have been equally as bad although Cook has probably been the best of a poor bunch. After that in the batting it is Kohli who stands out above the rest. The lower order of both teams though there is no real contest. Whereas England's tail has wagged swiftly India's has drooped (mostly). And the big differences has been who has taken advantage when on top. India have been in the ascendency in four of the five tests at one time or another but have let their moment slip and paid dearly for it and their inability to chase down modest totals has killed them. That is why we could see a 4-1 scoreline.

Craig ..England are the home team playing ion conditions that really suit them. Indias record is woeful here, and pretty much every series now is won by the home team.
England have aspirations of challenging for the number one spot, if they struggle at home when the weather and toss has gone their way you cant sustain the argument theyve been THAT good.
A 4-1 scoreline would not reflect the overall balance of play through the series. Which isnt to say India have played well, I cant see anyone suggesting that. Just that they havent let their heads drop in the way they did last time, and that their bowling (guys like Ishant in particular) has been better than expected.
India have made some questionable selections (Yadav in T3 being the genuine no hindsight required awful one) and have an obvious weakness in their openers and keepers. Their batting has been exposed even more than Englands has, but I'd say its more worriesome for England as they have to play more than 50% of their games on these pitches whereas India come here once every 3-4 years.

Overall the series has lacked quality in many aspects, but its been a fascniating contest all the same.

Everyone should be very heartened by the scoreline if England win 4-1 and its certaionly something to celebrate, but it flatters both the way theyve played and the overall quality of the side. Could you imagine this lot going to India or Aus and winning? Seems to be the same every summer... they somehow muddle through with mixed performances and get enough wins to make things look better than they are.

Losing Cook, and probably Anderson and Broad for the next series, leave some huge gaps in experience. Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow and Woakes will have to step up and be the senior pros to support Root leading on and off the field. Ones off form, ones injured, anothers a violent drunk...not ideal.

Interesting thing with Moeen at 3, which isnt look that smart currently, is that the decision came from Root and Moeen himself mid game rather than the off field leadership. The entire top 3 has a big question mark over it. Theres no quick bowler, and without Anderson no bowler with any real pedigree overseas.


But still 4-1 is way better than things looked and a big improvement on the Pakistan series and winter... and there are positives in Buttler transfering his form and confidence to tests, Curran looking assured, Moeens rehabilitation and mental reset, slip catching calming down at last, Waokes continuing his incredible all round performances at home, and Cooks return to form (oh). Im also mildly optimistic about the 3 spin attack they can field with Moeen (assuming he doesnt slump the minute hes on a plane again), Rashid, Leach on tour...its more promising than the dross they took to Bangladesh/India anyway.

alfie wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:England would have thought they would have a bigger first innings lead than they ended up with but they are still in command here on effectively 57 for 0.

Well you never know with England...they are capable of losing ten wickets in a session

But you'd think this is the best day for batting.  And that modest first innings lead gives a little more comfort.

I hope guildford is enjoying his day in the sunshine...

Thanks, Alfie. A very enjoyable time. Certainly hot and sunny mid afternoon.

An engrossing day's cricket and in some ways a strange one. I thought India had the better of most parts of the day but England ended up strengthening their hold on the game.

A lot of credit to Jadeja for his batting yesterday and those who stuck with him. It does seem strange that he hasn't played more in this series. Meanwhile, England's bowling wasn't particularly bad but lacked penetration. Six bowlers sounds great as regards options but it seemed one too many for Root to come to terms with once Broad and Anderson had finished their opening morning session. A fair bit of chopping and changing followed to no great effect. Rashid didn't get the ball at all until more than 200 was on the board (I am no fan of Rashid but if he's going to be selected, then surely he has to be backed more) whilst Curran yesterday seemed surplus to requirements.

Useful start with the ball by India to have us around 60/2 but they couldn't capitalise further. Not helped one bit by Kohli squandering his two reviews in double quick time. Terrible, terrible leave by Jennings. When replayed on the big screen, I heard a spectator there for the social side ask, ''Why did he do that?''. It was a good question!

The Oval bean counters are delighted that Cook is still batting, reckoning it'll add several thousand to today's gate. They could be right - every run of his got a cheer. Putting sentiment aside, I would say that if there is to be a ton today, it's more important it goes to Root. That would undoubtedly benefit both him and England going forward. He was playing nicely and untroubled when play ended (annoyingly, one over short even with the added half-hour).

I fully take goose's point that you can't predict anything in this series but I would think - given the chance - England would want to bat on some time past tea. Let Broad and Anderson rest further - they were bowling in the middle session yesterday after all. I would be keen to set them a minimum target of 340 (Olly will appreciate that) although ideally around 400 which should be unreachable.

On non-playing aspects, I was impressed by how readily the boundary fielders (particularly, Stokes and Curran) signed autographs and posed for selfies with the watching kids. Less impressed by Vaughan - he's a scruffy b*gg*r!

I am not advocating England as world No 1 team - far from it. Of course they have problems as I, myself, have said on here in areas. But I have little sympathy for India as they have had many chances in this series and blew it. It is hard to have sympathy for that. If a striker misses loads of chances at football he isn't called unlucky he is either subbed or lambasted afterwards.

If England do win 4-1 it will flatter somewhat but remember that they are playing against the best Indian seam attack to visit these shores playing in conditions that greatly suited them so I can see why scoring has been so low.

Anyway like I said I won't hold my breath expecting eye-opening selections for Sri Lanka. Rumour has it Ed Smith has already dropped big hints that Jennings will be selected despite a summer of low scores. It is the batting that really needs overhauling with two new openers and a bona fide No 3 needed. Still lots of work to do and need for some fresh faces who can show they are up to test cricket. The bowling also needs freshening up with a real pace bowler or two for the future.

I do agree with much of what you say though Gooseberry.

And Cook gets a 50 in his last test match - his 33rd. He is now guaranteed an average of over 45 with the bat per innings.

Good start to the day with runs coming fairly easily. No nervous hanging around for Cooks 50.

Really England should not blow this game from here, but again ...this series.... the biggest surprise would be India not getting themselves back in the game somehow!

Gooseberry wrote:Good start to the day with runs coming fairly easily. No nervous hanging around for Cooks 50.

Really England should not blow this game from here, but again ...this series.... the biggest surprise would be India not getting themselves back in the game somehow!

Well if England bat through until halfway through the last session then they will surely be in a position in which they can't lose. The lead will be up around 375 to 400 if not more. I cannot see India chasing that down in a day on this pitch where the run-rate has been snail-like.

England ticking with ease now. Cook only needs 33 more...

Good to see Root looking back to himself here - seems to have his feet moving, and is playing Jadeja nicely (apologies for putting the mockers on him)

Cant think of when Cook looked this free and confident in a test. Even his last double century seemed like an ordeal. Root too looks like the pressures off ....great way to bow out reminding people of what was.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good to see Root looking back to himself here - seems to have his feet moving, and is playing Jadeja nicely (apologies for putting the mockers on him)

Dropped two balls later - sorry!

Good so far today from England...both batsmen looking to score wherever possible...
Think they'll want a pretty sizeable lead before they'll even consider declaring : pitch seems fine for batting at present ; they've already won the series , and the bowlers could indeed benefit from a prolonged rest at the end of a busy and compressed series of matches.
India came back well yesterday with the bat : they have done so repeatedly this series - as indeed have England ; making it the fascinating contest it has generally been. I wonder if today will be one trial too many for their resilience ? Going to be tough if they can't get a break soon, you'd think. How often can a team come back and reverse the flow of a match ?

Oops ! Nearly ...Root dropped at slip - very sharp chance ; they either stick or they don't ...

Lead over 200 now

Root dropped on 46 at first slip. England upping their scoring rate. 161 for 2 and lead by 201.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good to see Root looking back to himself here - seems to have his feet moving, and is playing Jadeja nicely (apologies for putting the mockers on him)

Lucky for you India cant catch!

The 100 partnership up between Cook and Root.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Good to see Root looking back to himself here - seems to have his feet moving, and is playing Jadeja nicely (apologies for putting the mockers on him)

I did wonder if I had put the mockers on him earlier by saying how well and naturally he was playing yesterday.

A welcome 50 up for Root. Looks to be getting some form back.

So far seems a much more fluent morning for England's batsmen. Lead now past 200, so even with a trademark collapse we should be setting a challenging target.

50 up for Root now.

Alastair Cook now moves into 5th on the all-time list of highest test run scorers. He moves ahead of Sri Lanka's Kumar Sangakkara who has 12,400 test runs.

The top scoring left hand bat in test cricket history.