England - the winter tours thread

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 13 Sep 2018, 8:55 am

First topic message reminder :

After the perfect ending to the summer, with Alastair Cook riding into the sunset with a hundred and James Anderson breaking Glenn McGrath's record to wrap up a 4-1 series win over the #1 side in the world...England head into a brave new world (in a mere 3 weeks time!) post Cook

Tour of Sri Lanka (Oct-Nov)
5 ODI's played between 10th October and 23rd October
1 T20i played on 27th October
3 Test matches played between 6th November and 23rd November

Tour of West Indies (Jan-Mar)
3 Test matches played between 23rd January and 9th February
5 ODI's played between 20th February and 2nd March
3 T20i's played between 5th March and 10th March

As ever there are many rumblings in the media on potential selections ahead of the Sri Lanka tour...

Rory Burns seems set to take Cook's spot
Will Jennings keep his place? Or will a Vince/Denly or complete wildcard be picked to open with him?
Which spinners do England take along with Moeen/Rashid?
Do Anderson/Broad get rested?
What pace options will be taken?

All questions that will be debated and answered in the coming weeks...so I start with a little competition between us selectors on v2...

Name your test squad for the series in Sri Lanka. Whoever gets the nearest to the actual squad, gets a pair of Ed Smith approved sunglasses Cool

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 7:54 am

This pair are the last specialist batsmen. Another quick wicket now and England may force a lead of 50+ but Dickwella is a danger.

by Gooseberry Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:06 am

Its shaping up to be a fascinating test, these two are scoring quite rapidly now and seem to have swung the momentum back Sri Lankas way a little.
Most likely to first innings totals will be very close, which gives England a small advantage but still plenty of opportunity for Sri Lanka to pressure them.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:14 am

Well I did say yesterday I felt it would be close to parity after the first innings.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:36 am

Root removes the dangerous Dickwella trapping him lbw. Reviewed but decision stands. Sri Lanka 211 for 7.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:37 am

Rashid bowled brilliantly post lunch - probably his second best spell in tests after his five wicket haul in the UAE

Now Root gets Dickwella! Important england wrap up these final three wickets quickly - a lead of even 30 could be crucial

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:42 am

That was Joe Root's 20th Test wicket.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 8:47 am

A waste of a review that. It had zilch going for it and looked to be more out of desperation.

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:02 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:A waste of a review that. It had zilch going for it and looked to be more out of desperation.

One of the worst reviews I've ever seen from England ! What on earth were they thinking ?

Need to snap up these last three soon or this is too close for comfort. Ball is doing plenty so England's batsmen will be tested when they bat again : would be nice to have a bit of a cushion.

Missed the post lunch hour so didn't see the Rashid spell but he seems to have done pretty well ? He's certainly getting a lot of turn now ; but that score keeps edging up...

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:12 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Well I did say yesterday I felt it would be close to parity after the first innings.

Thanks for that, Craig.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:20 am

alfie wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:A waste of a review that. It had zilch going for it and looked to be more out of desperation.

One of the worst reviews I've ever seen from England ! What on earth were they thinking ?

Need to snap up these last three soon or this is too close for comfort. Ball is doing plenty so England's batsmen will be tested when they bat again : would be nice to have a bit of a cushion.

Missed the post lunch hour so didn't see the Rashid spell but he seems to have done pretty well ? He's certainly getting a lot of turn now ; but that score keeps edging up...

Hi Alfie - as too often, there were some very good balls from Rashid but a few freebies there as well. Ward on Sky just referred to his ''liquorice all sorts''.

Bowling as a whole wasn't fully on the money in that session.

In line with an earlier post of yours, even if we do get a first innings lead it's only going to be a small one and, for all the disadvantage Sri Lanka have in batting last, we are definitely going to have to bat decently in our second digg.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:27 am

Just to add about Rashid. I always find it far more difficult to estimate the speed of a spinner than a quick bowler. That said, some of Rashid's deliveries were certainly fizzing and travelling at a lick. Sharp take by Foakes to get Mathews off him. Even though it was caught at the second attempt, Foakes reacted well to even get his gloves to the ball initially.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:33 am

alfie wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:A waste of a review that. It had zilch going for it and looked to be more out of desperation.

One of the worst reviews I've ever seen from England ! What on earth were they thinking ?

...

''A lousy appeal. They should never have gone [with it] ... getting a bit hot and bothered '' - David Lloyd.

Bang on as per your posts.

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:38 am

250 up ...still seven down...good fifty for Roshen clap

New ball due : if it doesn't do the trick Sri Lanka might be edging ahead...

Aha ! Leach strikes ! Eight now...

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 9:42 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:That was Joe Root's 20th Test wicket.

He's done ok with the ball today and is usually a reasonable fill in but I question whether his bowling should have been needed in this innings. More a reflection on the inconsistency of others than anything too tactical.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:03 am

Jack Leach showing what he's all about. He's a mighty fine bowler and someone the captain can guarantee will offer him control. He should be the lead spinner going forward.

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:11 am

Well I haven't seen a lot of the play today ; but from what I have watched and comments I've read I have a feeling that both Rashid and Moeen have not quite got the balance right for a turning pitch : too impatient ? Certainly seem to have conceded runs a lot quicker than you'd want. Even Leach seems to have been scored off more regularly than I'd have expected.
Might be unfair : perhaps Sri Lanka have just batted too well ? But it does cause me concern for the rest of this game . General wisdom was that batting last would be a struggle to make 150 : after this innings I think England would want a lot more than that . Not certain they will get it unless they bat more carefully than yesterday.

In Galle the seamers took out the first two very early ; and Moeen and Leach did the rest. This time it's been all down to the spinners ; and it looks to have been a bit of a struggle on a bowler-friendly pitch.

Strange things happening : first Stokes drops a catch (!!!) and now England get awarded penalty runs for batsmen running on the pitch ...so now they have 290 ? Weird.

Sri Lanka 14 behind then.

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:15 am

Root perhaps guilty of not mixing things up enough, with only 13 overs being bowled by his three seamers.

Sri Lanka need another 50 or so runs to become favourites, and negate England's 4th innings advantage.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:15 am

Well this has been a cracking effort by Sri Lanka with the bat. They look likely to forge a crucial first innings lead now. Full credit to them for their dogged display and not collapsing. Beautifully poised now.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:18 am

alfie wrote:Well I haven't seen a lot of the play today ; but from what I have watched and comments I've read I have a feeling that both Rashid and Moeen have not quite got the balance right for a turning pitch : too impatient ? Certainly seem to have conceded runs a lot quicker than you'd want. Even Leach seems to have been scored off more regularly than I'd have expected.
Might be unfair : perhaps Sri Lanka have just batted too well ? But it does cause me concern for the rest of this game . General wisdom was that batting last would be a struggle to make 150 : after this innings I think England would want a lot more than that . Not certain they will get it unless they bat more carefully than yesterday.

In Galle the seamers took out the first two very early ; and Moeen and Leach did the rest. This time it's been all down to the spinners ; and it looks to have been a bit of a struggle on a bowler-friendly pitch.

Strange things happening : first Stokes drops a catch (!!!) and now England get awarded penalty runs for batsmen running on the pitch ...so now they have 290 ? Weird.

Sri Lanka 14 behind then.

Leach and Moeen haven’t bowled anywhere near as well as they did in Galle - far too often dropping short or too full.

Still england are in the game - and looks like we’re gonna be setup for a good one

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:19 am

Wonder how big a lead Sri Lanka will get ? Looking pretty safe , Roshen and Akila .

Think they are slight favorites now , despite batting last. England will need a very solid second knock.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:23 am

Don't understand the penalty runs we've been given. Suggestions that it wasn't for running on the wicket but for deliberately (?) running short.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:27 am

guildfordbat wrote:Don't understand the penalty runs we've been given. Suggestions that it wasn't for running on the wicket but for deliberately (?) running short.

Seems it was because Roshen didn’t attempt to complete the first run before coming back for the second - never seen that before!

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:29 am

Duty281 wrote:Root perhaps guilty of not mixing things up enough, with only 13 overs being bowled by his three seamers.

Sri Lanka need another 50 or so runs to become favourites, and negate England's 4th innings advantage.

Wondered about that. Suppose it does look like a spinner's dream pitch so not surprising they've done most of the work ; but mixing it up with the odd burst of Stokes' short stuff or Anderson trying for reverse might have been worthwhile .

Do you suppose Moeen - after a fine match in Gallle - might have felt "pressure" from expectations here ? We know he can struggle sometimes when it seems things are set up for him to be the "cutting edge "

Another drop - though harsh to be too critical as Buttler actually did well to get a hand to that...but it just isn't quite happening for England today. Couple of errors against the pace men haven't gone to hand...

Moeen back now as the 300 comes up...

by Gooseberry Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:32 am

England are really letting this get away from them being bossed about by a weak tail. taste of their own medicine maybe ...but this is also where a genuine fast bowler for the new ball would've been a handy option even on a slow surface (broken record etc). As useful as his batting has been in getting England out a hole this tour his Currans barely even getting to see the ball let alone do much with it.

We are also seeing the other Moeen in this test. Pushed down the order, still cant make runs. Given a good bowl in helpful conditions, largely ineffective even against poor batsmen. Obviously every player has their good and bad games / innings / spells but Moeen really does seem to be an all or nothing kind of guy! Hopefully this is just a blip and his confidence doesn't go again.

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:34 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Don't understand the penalty runs we've been given. Suggestions that it wasn't for running on the wicket but for deliberately (?) running short.

Seems it was because Roshen didn’t attempt to complete the first run before coming back for the second - never seen that before!

A first for me too ! I know the rule exists - with the penalty runs a recent innovation , I believe ? But never seen it applied.

Apparently happening a lot in the Women's t20 cup at the moment (for running on the pitch in those cases)

Becoming fashionable ? Billy Bowden would have loved it Smile

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 10:48 am

alfie wrote:Do you suppose Moeen - after a fine match in Gallle - might have felt "pressure" from expectations here ?

That is the likeliest case, mind you he's just picked up the ninth wicket.

Lead up to 25, that's decent.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:05 am

This feels like it has england all out 147 in their second innings written all over it

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:11 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:This feels like it has england all out 147 in their second innings written all over it

Would be very English. 80/1 becomes 95/7. Sam Curran gives it a swing up to 147.

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:19 am

Rashid gets the last wicket.

Marvellous innings of 85 from Silva, which has made the Sri Lankans favourites going into tomorrow.

The final four wickets added 171 runs! The lead is 51 46.

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:23 am

Sri Lanka are bowled out with a very nice lead of 40+. I'd say they now hold quite a decent advantage. Great contest though.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:24 am

Tempted to say Moeen should have juggled the catch for 2 minutes to not allow enough time for us to face an over tonight - mind you, not sure what penalty that would have brought! Wink

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:24 am

Oh, England have the mighty ordeal of batting out a solitary over tonight. #cricketlogic

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:29 am

Jack Leach takes to the crease as night watchman to face six balls.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:29 am

Nightwatchman being used. mad

by CaledonianCraig Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:31 am

And Leach sees the over out and England close on 0 for 0.

by Duty281 Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:32 am

I quite like the idea of opening with Leach. Different thinking.

Anyway, England have quite a slog to get to parity tomorrow morning.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:35 am

Dreadful to use the nightwatchman in that situation.

So what does Leach even surviving achieve? We still start our second innings in the morning with a Test rooky and a number 10.

The captain should back his batsman and the batsman should back himself and his team.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:46 am

I wholeheartedly approve of Leach opening the batting because it’s funny - and as we all know funny cricket >>> logical cricket

by alfie Thu 15 Nov 2018, 11:54 am

But weird sending a number ten in for one over. Suppose it solves the number three problem for this innings though Smile

England will need to bat well or we could be one all in a day or two. Very much Sri Lanka's day. Credit to them : but I think England might have got a bit ahead of themselves after their good last session on day one.

Guess this is what makes Test cricket so fascinating...

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:04 pm

Bowling wasn’t good enough and was seam used enough? I know Root got a wicket, but there felt like times he was doing things to mix it up when an actual bowler might have been a good call.

And I’m still not 100% sure I care for him having put practise in so he can now bowl leggies. Could do with some form with the bat

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:16 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I wholeheartedly approve of Leach opening the batting because it’s funny - and as we all know funny cricket >>> logical cricket

Guess it's modelled on Holland's football in the 1970s and another part of our current Total Cricket approach!

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:26 pm

I’m upset Stokes didn’t open. He’s batted 3 through 11 so a 1 or 2 would have been grand.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:32 pm

''I think Jennings should have been out there doing his job. It's a bit of a nonsense. It also upsets the rhythm of an innings if you've got a nightwatchman in there at the start of the day.'' - Bob Willis showing himself to be more old school (he did go to Guildford Royal Grammar School!) than Olly. Wink

For balance and in terms of fairness, I should add that Ravi Bopara on the same Sky programme thought it was ''the right decision ...as Jennings had nothing to gain and everything to lose.''

by JDizzle Thu 15 Nov 2018, 12:45 pm

Would they have walked off if a wicket had fallen in that final over? If so, then Leach should 100% have just shouldered arms to a straight one. Jennings doesn’t have to bat tonight and England start properly with their real openers tomorrow. Easy. Not sure the corruption units at the ICC would agree mind!

by Gooseberry Thu 15 Nov 2018, 1:40 pm

JDizzle wrote:Would they have walked off if a wicket had fallen in that final over? If so, then Leach should 100% have just shouldered arms to a straight one. Jennings doesn’t have to bat tonight and England start properly with their real openers tomorrow. Easy. Not sure the corruption units at the ICC would agree mind!

The last thing they want is Jennings starting tomorrow against Lakmal. If Leach can hang around to see off at least a couple of overs of the seamer it gives a much improved chance of him making runs.

Jokes aside the whole episode is a bit of a farce including the over being bowled at all. It also leaves Curran one less partner to perform miracles with.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:15 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
JDizzle wrote:Would they have walked off if a wicket had fallen in that final over? If so, then Leach should 100% have just shouldered arms to a straight one. Jennings doesn’t have to bat tonight and England start properly with their real openers tomorrow. Easy. Not sure the corruption units at the ICC would agree mind!

The last thing they want is Jennings starting tomorrow against Lakmal. If Leach can hang around to see off at least a couple of overs of the seamer it gives a much improved chance of him making runs.

Jokes aside the whole episode is a bit of a farce including the over being bowled at all. It also leaves Curran one less partner to perform miracles with.

A batsman going well and having one less partner to bat with is one of the several reasons I've never liked the concept of a nightwatchman.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 2:43 pm

However if Leach can survive the first hour and make a useful 20/30 tomorrow morning that will be handy - take some hardness out of the new ball and get some overs into the fingers of the spinners before the batsmen come in...

So long as he does better than what Pushpakumara did today!

by **LondonTiger** Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:18 pm

From what I read our spinners were poor.

Seems Leach was putting minimal revs on the ball, Ali was bowling too short, scared of the various sweeps utilised, and Rashid mixing unplayable balls with tripe pie.

Anyone watched it?

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:42 pm

LondonTiger wrote:From what I read our spinners were poor.

Seems Leach was putting minimal revs on the ball, Ali was bowling too short, scared of the various sweeps utilised, and Rashid mixing unplayable balls with tripe pie.

Anyone watched it?

Watched a fair bit of the last two sessions. That's not far off the money although, tbf, Sri Lanka's batting was a considerable improvement on the last Test.

by guildfordbat Thu 15 Nov 2018, 3:54 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:However if Leach can survive the first hour and make a useful 20/30 tomorrow morning that will be handy - take some hardness out of the new ball and get some overs into the fingers of the spinners before the batsmen come in...

So long as he does better than what Pushpakumara did today!

Always a chance that Leach could shine with the bat tomorrow although you'll know the odds better than me, my friend. For every nightwatchman making it to a half-century, there are many, many others who crashed and burned the night they went in or early the next morning.

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