What if no Murray - who would you pick instead for RWC 2019?

There’s regular talk about what if something happened to Johnny Sexton and who would be able to step up in his stead. But there’s equal amount of conjecture posed about who’d fill the place of Conor Murray if he were not available to travel to Japan.

So who would be your picks from the remaining talents?

Kieran Marmion has had regular slots on the bench and built a solid amount of caps from there, but not many starting. He’s solid, reliable, not given to many pieces of flash or solo darts. He’s probably Mr Dependable and has the box-seat currently for selection. But possibly only for the bench, so starting might be....

Luke McGrath has been vying with Jamison Gibson Park for the 9 starting slot with Leinster and being IQ has been given a number of runs by Schmidt. He’s quick and lively, generally good and on target with his box-kicking, but his passing has been wayward at times. He’s no slouch when it comes to making a dart on his own and very good at supporting runners. If he’s the starter, then on the bench could it be...

John Cooney has had lots of plaudits since moving to Ulster, garnering man of the match and player of the season awards last year. He’s started well again this season. He went to Australia and got a few minutes but he’s way behind the other two on capped experience. Highest points scorer last season, he’s an excellent place-kicker and marshalls his troops well in the vein of a French No. 9. Tracks back and defends very well too but does he have enough or...

Lastly, with his eye-catching performance at the weekend, is there a possibility that Jamison Gibson-Park could be considered, even though he only qualifies next June when he current Leinster contract ends? He has the advantage of playing inside Sexton, and winning at the top table. The Kiwi would only have the warm-up games against England, Italy and Wales to get some game-time - surely though not enough? And yet some pundits in media have talked about him being a possibility along with Munster’s Jean Kleyn who qualifies at same time. Joe Schmidt isn’t a risk-taker or is he?

Who’d be your two picks and why?

I wouldn't know who to pick from that lot.  Never actually considered that Gibson-Park would be qualified until you mentioned his name.  

But one thing seems clear to me - if another 9 needed to take over from a long term injured Murray, the team really would be forced to play things differently overall.  I don't think any of the alternatives have the particular attributes of Murray.  He's a different kind of 9 and Joe plays the game to Murray's strengths.  So I don't think Ireland would be as physically robust (international standard) without him, and the team would need to become looser and show more evasion with virtually all other alternatives.

On the Jamison Gibson-Park possibility in particular, I'd have to say I have the recurring reservations about us picking too many of the foreign prospects.  I know they come in and do their time, etc etc.... but the Irish lads do the same and they do it for longer, from childhood.

Gibson-Park would make sense of course on a practical pragmatic level - good player but also already a relationship with Sexton - but Cooney and McGrath to fight it out for starter and bencher?  
Form in the lead-in to the WC will of course be an important factor too.  Schmidt would have to choose the players he feels were ready for a full on assault on the competition and maybe Gibson-Park would be at that calibre at that time.

On form it would be Cooney and Gibson-Park but you'd imagine Marmion would be there due to his greater experience.

If McGrath can recapture the Leinster no 9 jersey he'll be in the frame otherwise he's probably at the bottom of the pecking order.

Murray is world class but Ireland look pretty well covered, unlike at 10.

No Duncan Williams or Dave Shanahan options?

rodders wrote:On form it would be Cooney and Gibson-Park but you'd imagine Marmion would be there due to his greater experience.

If McGrath can recapture the Leinster no 9 jersey he'll be in the frame otherwise he's probably at the bottom of the pecking order.

Murray is world class but Ireland look pretty well covered, unlike at 10.

At least Carbery will get to play 10 this season. I think he'll be a big success though he needs to keep working on his goal kicking.


A Cooney Carbery second choice pairing could be very good.

Is Alby Matthewson Irish?

Em............................... let me check Google.......................................em..................................

....................................................
.........................No.  No he isn't Irish.

I'll just do an Irish Granny Search Link Algorithm sweep to be sure.............................

................... nope.  Not Irish.

Taylorman wrote:Is Alby Matthewson Irish?

Errrmmmm

Taylorman wrote:Is Alby Matthewson Irish?

No. There’s no Ws or Ys in Irish.

I think we need more proof though. Does anyone have his DNA records to hand there please. Let's get serious here.

SecretFly wrote:I think we need more proof though.  Does anyone have his DNA records to hand there please.  Let's get serious here.

Good idea, I mean looking at Bundy Okee he seems to have switched the DNA swabs, perhaps Alby’s borrowed his moves?

rodders wrote:On form it would be Cooney and Gibson-Park but you'd imagine Marmion would be there due to his greater experience.

If McGrath can recapture the Leinster no 9 jersey he'll be in the frame otherwise he's probably at the bottom of the pecking order.

Murray is world class but Ireland look pretty well covered, unlike at 10.

Nah. Murray is probably the most influential player on the team. He and sexton are world class. Sexton without Murray taking the pressure off. Well we all know how that goes.

After this weekends games it’s clear marmion is by far the next best option.

Oh, Gibson-Park, the other Auckland born and Blues irishman. Forgot about him. ...gets better

Taylorman wrote:Oh, Gibson-Park, the other Auckland born and Blues irishman. Forgot about him. ...gets better

They're desperate to wear the green.

profitius wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Oh, Gibson-Park, the other Auckland born and Blues irishman. Forgot about him. ...gets better

They're desperate to wear the green.

Our Aucklanders sure get around...
I see England now have the luxury of Eddie Jones and Mitchell operating from Durban. Eddies gonna love his control freak management on that one. Two strong personalities, one who beat the Abs in the 2003 semi.

If England fail World cup time expect a powder keg. Extraordinarily bad pairing...it may just work.

profitius wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Oh, Gibson-Park, the other Auckland born and Blues irishman. Forgot about him. ...gets better

They're desperate to wear the green.

Kiwis are green. Well one variety is. And slightly hairy. Describes Gibson Park perfectly.

Pot Hale wrote:

profitius wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Oh, Gibson-Park, the other Auckland born and Blues irishman. Forgot about him. ...gets better

They're desperate to wear the green.

Kiwis are green.   Well one variety is.  And slightly hairy.  Describes Gibson Park perfectly.  

Yes its a concern Pot, we're just thankful someones picking up, and even paying for the rejected ones. Cmon, someones been through those supermarket bins outside havent they?

At least at this rate you'll be able to do your own haka

We've already done our own Haka.... well the unruly Munster lads have anyway.

We nearly had them all executed for treason but............ well it was that English execution unit that was also tasked with ending the Haka so.................... the Munster lads survived without a scratch, thank God.

Coney would be perfect for Carbry as he has the game management and Carby the skill

Marmion has never let us down at international

McGrath plays behind the most dominate pack so has it easier

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

rodders wrote:On form it would be Cooney and Gibson-Park but you'd imagine Marmion would be there due to his greater experience.

If McGrath can recapture the Leinster no 9 jersey he'll be in the frame otherwise he's probably at the bottom of the pecking order.

Murray is world class but Ireland look pretty well covered, unlike at 10.

Nah. Murray is probably the most influential player on the team. He and sexton are world class. Sexton without Murray taking the pressure off. Well we all know how that goes.

After this weekends games it’s clear marmion is by far the next best option.

How does it go?

Ireland beat England last year in the Aviva without Murray and Sexton was very good. In this match Ireland halted England's 18 match winning streak and handed Jones his first loss. Seemed to go ok that day without Murray.

That said we are obviously a better side when both Murray and Sexton are playing as they are the best 9 and 10 combination in world rugby at the moment especially given Barrett's poor form.

Be hilarious if a kiwi takes his spot vs the ABs.

What Kiwi would that be, Taylor?

I think he must think Jamison Park or Matthewson are eligable to play for Ireland.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:

rodders wrote:On form it would be Cooney and Gibson-Park but you'd imagine Marmion would be there due to his greater experience.

If McGrath can recapture the Leinster no 9 jersey he'll be in the frame otherwise he's probably at the bottom of the pecking order.

Murray is world class but Ireland look pretty well covered, unlike at 10.

Nah. Murray is probably the most influential player on the team. He and sexton are world class. Sexton without Murray taking the pressure off. Well we all know how that goes.

After this weekends games it’s clear marmion is by far the next best option.

How does it go?

Ireland beat England last year in the Aviva without Murray and Sexton was very good. In this match Ireland halted England's 18 match winning streak and handed Jones his first loss. Seemed to go ok that day without Murray.

That said we are obviously a better side when both Murray and Sexton are playing as they are the best 9 and 10 combination in world rugby at the moment especially given Barrett's poor form.

Well you do realise the current state of England and the precarious lead up to that game for them. Anyhow it’s an opinion thing but given how much game time joe squeezes out of Murray it’s clear where the coaching staff view where the most influential requirement is in terms of player.

..

Collapse2005 wrote:I think he must think Jamison Park or Matthewson are eligable to play for Ireland.

Oh there's two Blues players. Gosh, does Murray not hold clinics?

Yeah two Kiwi's came over here to learn how it's done. They'll be good bench options for thei rf provinces.

McGrath and Marmion would be the two I'd pick right now but we have great depth at 9 now.Obviously none of them are in Murrays class but I wouldn't be worried whoever takes to the field.

Murray has the oft-told Fizzicality........................ sure has

.............. but a McGrath type figure would potentially release the hounds faster and more consistently. So, a different style; and maybe even approaching the gameplan most of us feel is in Ireland's ability but isn't played often enough - evasion and offload rather than collision and recycling.

Cooney and McGrath both had very good games at the weekend. Duncan Williams was excellent too.

All our back up scrum halves seem quite small along side Murray.

McGrath is a serious hitter for his size,that's why I'd have him in there ,our defensive system needs a really strong defender at SH.However they alk bring different things, Cooney can goal kick,cover OH and is just a very solid all rounder. Marmion is a better passer and sppeds play up very well, covers wing pretty effectively too.It's great to have options like that and the November tests will be interesting to see who gets the nod.

It's also good to have variety there to perhaps keep opposition on their toes............... provided we actually did more 'rotation' in that position.  
But then we're back to how much we really trust Murray's alternatives long term.  I would but it seems Joe gets very edgy without him.