England Squad for Autumn Series - My take on who's in and why?

First topic message reminder :

It gets picked tomorrow.

My squad for the autumn series:

Brown (still the best defensive FB by far).
Daly (Must be in first XV. With only 1 year out from the WC, just stick with him at wing or else bet the house and put him at 13).
Nowell (back up wing. Injury hasn't helped him).
May (1st choice now with Daly).
Ashton (with Watson out good to see how he performs, albeit short of match practice).
Cokanasiga (Very raw, but looks a better bet than Solomona/Roko/Yarde as a brick house wing that EJ needs in his armoury).

Tuilagi (looking fit, fingers crossed...EJ needs to get that witch doctor into camp).
Twelvetrees (in for Te'o who is just back from injury and needs time. Twelvetrees has been in impressive form dovetailing with Cips in 10/12 axis. Experienced, a goalkicker, strong in tackle and fleet of foot).
Slade (utility back with pace and left foot kicking option. Prefer to see him develop his game at 12 but looks like EJ sees him as a 13).
Farrell. (This is the year to show us that he deserves to be recognised as the best fly-half England has ever had; next to JW)

Ford. (urgently needs competition for his place)
Cipriani (is he the man to bring out the best in this England backline? Yes!).
Youngs. (needs to maintain consistency and get back to his sniping best)
Care. (Is he better than Robson?)
Robson (Care needs to feel some heat).

B. Vunipola. (Indispensable. Seems to have lost more weight)
Hughes (just back from injury but too good to ignore as back up 8. Simmonds is too small and better 7s are already in place).
T. Curry. (Lead contender for 7 jersey with a better game in the loose than Underhill)
Underhill (Curry and Underhill to fight it out for the 7 jersey and if neither prevail, then bring back Haskell).
Robshaw (under threat from Shields or Rhodes who are both more athletic and comparable in terms of work rate).
Shields (hope that cheekbone heals in time. In for his highly credible tackling and carrying stats in SR).
Rhodes (Flanker/Lock who can displace Kruis and give Robshaw a run for the 6 jersey).

Lawes. (always 1st choice)
Launchbury. (needs to show he is a better player than Itoje.)
Itoje. (a big season after losing steam)

Cole. (well rested. Should see him back to his scrummaging best)
Sinckler. (needs to grow a little wiser on the pitch)
Williams. (could displace Sinckler as bench option)
Marler. (superior to Vunipola in the scrum and should start matches)
Vunipola. (needs to get back to his rampaging best. Should draw inspiration from Codie Taylor's recent displays in the loose)
Hepburn (in for injured Genge).
Hartley. (once again, he needs to prove himself.)
George. (perfect bench option)
Cowan-Dickie. (just got injured so may have to sit it out, in which case Dunn is a good option)

This is getting beyond ridiculous. What does the back-row look like now?

06. Brad Sheilds/ Mark Wilson
07. Tom Curry
08. Ben Morgan/ Zach Mercer

From the Times:

How do England minimise the impact of Billy Vunipola’s absence? 


Owen Slot I described him, in yesterday’s paper, as the most valuable player on the planet, so this is next to impossible, especially when you are without Nathan Hughes (probably) and Sam Simmonds (definitely). Next question, please.
Stuart Barnes By developing an alternative style of play (fast tempo) designed for the last 20 minutes.
Alex Lowe Billy Vunipola is irreplaceable. The closest alternative England have to the power he brings at No 8 is Nathan Hughes, but he is not as impactful on either side of the ball and does not bring the same dynamism as Vunipola. And, in any case, Hughes is likely to be banned tomorrow. So how do England generate front-foot ball? Eddie Jones will hope that one of Ben Te’o or Manu Tuilagi is available to bring some physicality in the backs and it may well require a change to the balance of the back row.
John Westerby Hope for clemency from the disciplinary panel tonight for Nathan Hughes, the only ball-carrier who comes close to replicating Vunipola’s impact. Shifting Courtney Lawes to blind-side would give England a powerful carrying option.




Who would you select in the back row? 

Slot This is has now become very, very hard. My World Cup back row would have Tom Curry and Michael Rhodes on the flanks; they both need to play to amass experience, yet, right now, England need experienced warriors to get them past South Africa and New Zealand. You can’t have it both ways. And you can’t pick Zach Mercer because that accentuates the inexperience. I’d have Attwood in at lock as a key ball-carrier, Curry at No 7, Maro Itoje at No 6 with Rhodes learning off the bench, and Don Armand at No 8. That doesn’t solve the inexperience problem, but it might be competitive and it does get key personnel on the pitch.
Barnes Don Armand at No 6, Don Armand at No 7 and Don Armand at No 8. Or Armand, Tom Curry and Zach Mercer.
Lowe Michael Rhodes has to start. Saracens are amazed that South Africa have not tried to select him and Jones will surely not hesitate. The power of his collisions, both with the ball and in defence, “put the fear of God” into opponents, according to Alex Sanderson, the Saracens assistant coach. The balance of the back row is tricky. Tom Curry is the best open-side available but the danger of playing him alongside Zach Mercer, who deserves his shot at No 8, is that England could be outmuscled by South Africa in the opening Test of the autumn. Don Armand, Dave Ewers and Ben Morgan have all been mentioned as options but now is not the time for a stop-gap. I would be tempted to give Mercer the start at No8 — he is fleet-footed and increasingly physical — while playing Brad Shields with Rhodes as abrasive flankers.
Westerby Eddie Jones will feel the absence of Chris Robshaw keenly. Given the inexperience around him, he could have been invaluable. Michael Rhodes is an alternative at No 6 but his lack of Test experience may count against him. If Hughes is absent, I’d play Courtney Lawes at No 6, Tom Curry at No 7 and Brad Shields or Mercer at No 8.




Who can fill the void at loose-head? 

Slot England need Ellis Genge fit. He could yet be a serious international player. In his absence (injured), Alec Hepburn deserves more of a chance to prove himself. He remains very much unproven.
Barnes Alec Hepburn.
Lowe England will be praying that Mako Vunipola’s calf strain is minor because they need him in the team as a carrier and for his work-rate in defence. Behind him, with Joe Marler retired and Ellis Genge injured, Alec Hepburn is the next in line. Hepburn has performed well for England when called upon and is both a good scrummager and effective around the park. Ben Moon is eternally under-rated but I would like to see whether Val Rapava Ruskin can cut it at the highest level; there have been signs this season that he could have what it takes.
Westerby He retired four years ago, but has anybody checked on Andrew Sheridan’s fitness? A real problem.




Should Danny Cipriani be in the squad, and if so in what role? 

Slot Yes, he needs to be in the squad. Not as starter. Ford and Farrell is the first choice, tried-and-tested 10-12 partnership. Yet 1) Cipriani needs to learn to deputise for Ford. And 2) if Farrell is injured, he could displace Ford as starting No 10.
Barnes He deserves to retain the shirt he wore in Cape Town.
Lowe Yes, he should be. Owen Farrell is apparently under consideration as the starting fly half (a shift in thinking connected to the return to fitness of Manu Tuilagi), which would make it hard to see Cipriani starting, but he deserves the right to compete with George Ford. Jones believes Cipriani is a highlights player but he proved against Castres at the weekend that he can manage a game too.
Westerby Eddie Jones has invested so much in the Ford-Farrell pairing that it should be England’s best 10-12 pair, but Cipriani would be a wonderful game-breaker from the bench.




Is scrum half a serious concern for England now?

Slot Yes, but compared to all the other issues, it’s only a middling kind of nightmare because Ben Youngs and Danny Care are both experienced and have had great days, though not consistently great, for England. Yet this is one position that Jones has really not managed well. Behind Youngs and Care, he has developed no one; he has toyed with Richard Wigglesworth and Ben Spencer, then opted for Dan Robson, and now Robson is injured.
Barnes It has been since Eddie Jones turned scrum half into a duopoly
Lowe Dan Robson was putting Ben Youngs and Danny Care under real pressure after finally convincing the England coach that he had the game management to go with the electric running game. Ben Spencer is a fine player so England have options but Jones will want Youngs and Care to start delivering some improved performances.
Westerby Eddie Jones’s failure to groom a third option has been a concern for some time. Ben Youngs and Danny Care should be World Cup bankers but Jones’s reluctance to trust Dan Robson has created a problem, which has been exacerbated by the Wasps scrum half’s injury.




What about the back three — who should play where? 

Slot Elliot Daly at 15, Jonny May and Jack Nowell on the wings.
Barnes Elliot Daly left wing, have a look at Joe Cokanasiga, which means Mike Brown for stability at full back.
Lowe Jonny May, Mike Brown and Elliot Daly. I did not expect to still be selecting Brown in my team at this stage but his performances on tour proved he is still an asset for England. Jack Nowell is close and Joe Cokanasiga is emerging as a potential World Cup bolter but with Anthony Watson injured this looks to be the best balance for England’s back three.
Westerby Elliot Daly should be given time to establish himself at full back, with Jonny May and Jack Nowell on the wings, but Chris Ashton is worth a look at some point this autumn.




Name a player not presently seen as a starter who can become key by the World Cup.
 
Slot Joe Cokanasiga.
Barnes No one looks up to jumping from nowhere to the squad bar Don Armand, who impressed for Exeter Chiefs versus Munster.
Lowe Alex Lozowski. Henry Slade and Jonathan Joseph are ahead of him in the pecking order at outside centre but Lozowski has the array of qualities required to balance out the midfield if Farrell moves to fly half and England employ Tuilagi or Te’o as a physical presence in the centres. Lozowski is a tough defender, a smart play-maker but also has the ability to run challenging lines in attack. Also, in a rare show of club-country unity, England and Saracens appear to have agreed on outside centre being his best position.
Westerby Ben Te’o is the player who could make the biggest difference to Jones’s established pattern of play, potentially allowing Farrell to move to No 10, with Henry Slade at No 13 outside him. The same could be said for Manu Tuilagi, although clearly there are even greater concerns over the Leicester centre’s ability to stay fit.




Is it a concern that two of Jones’ coaches have not been at matches in recent weeks? 

Slot Of course it is. Ideally they would be out every weekend, watching the games. I rate very highly Scott Wisemantel, the new attack coach, who lives in Australia. Of course, the most important thing is that he is with the squad during campaigns. Yes, that is a compromise that England have to live with. But it is sub-optimal and highly unusual.
Barnes Not at all.
Lowe Yes. It is remarkable that John Mitchell in particular is not in the country this close to a critical autumn campaign, not only to take in matches but familiarise himself with the set-up, visit clubs, meet key players and play a hands-on role in the selection process as Jones’s No 2. He has been texting players from afar but he should be in the country.
Westerby Not necessarily, but it is surprising, because an individual player’s contribution can be gauged so much more accurately in the flesh. But Jones is the chief selector and the assistant coaches are charged with implementing the detail in their areas.




How many matches do you expect England to win this autumn? 

Slot Last week, I’d have said three, confidently. This week, sans Billy, the picture has changed dramatically. I expect them to win two (Japan and Australia), the South Africa game could go either way.
Barnes Three, with home advantage and South Africa’s absentees.
Lowe England, with their resources and playing numbers, should expect to win all four matches of an autumn campaign one year out from the World Cup. However, this team have lost six of their last seven games. Realistically, three from four would be a successful campaign, given how far ahead of the pack New Zealand are. Anything less is below par.
Westerby Three. It would be a different matter if the Springboks were at full strength. England, despite their injuries, should be able to scrape through on home soil. Australia look vulnerable, too, unless they have generated some momentum by the time they meet England in the final game of the autumn.




Is Eddie Jones the right man to lead England to the 2019 World Cup?

Slot Ha bloody ha. Put us on the spot, why don’t you? If we could rewind to the start of 2016, with retrospect, I’d now say the RFU should have appointed someone else (Rob Baxter). But change Jones now? With no better alternative to hand? I don’t have much faith that this is going to turn out well, but England are best served giving Jones the chance to put this right than going into emergency mode and starting from scratch.
Barnes Not on recent evidence.
Lowe This autumn will be critical. Jones is working to transform England’s fortunes by bringing in new coaches in the hope that fresh voices and different ideas can spark an uplift in form. There was some evidence of a recovery in South Africa. Jones deserves the chance to prove he can turn things around - do not forget he won a grand slam and a Six Nations title in his first two seasons - but if there is no evidence of improvement this autumn then the RFU will be under pressure to act.
Westerby He has to be backed to turn around the alarming slump of recent months. Nobody would plan to win a World Cup by losing five Tests on the trot with only a year to go, or by haemorrhaging backroom staff at an extraordinary rate. But the RFU, having anointed Jones, must hope that John Eales is right in saying that Jones “will reinvent himself” for World Cup year.

So for our perennial problem areas of BR and centre, only Farrell (a FH) is selectable. Nice. Would be kinda amusing if EJ returns Farrell to 10 and has a complete new set of back rowers and centres. Just for a laugh.

Any news on Hughes yet?

Just seen - hearing later today!

Genge is back into training i think so could be fit in time to warm the bench.

I'd like to see Morgan back in the squad with Mercer as back-up, for me he was ahead of Billy prior to his injury and  always stepped up for England. With Robshaw out and Morgan at 8 it gives us the chance to get a jackal in the pack. Also not keen on Itoje/Lawes partnership, losing Launchbury is a big blow.

nathan wrote:Genge is back into training i think so could be fit in time to warm the bench.

He is back training, but no contact training for a bit yet. He may be on bench for us by the end of next month, but surely not for England.

Mako Vunipola and Nick Isiekwe both out the autumn now, as reported by Sky Sports.

Ben T'eo is reported to be available for his first match of the season for Worcester this season. It will be a sign of Eddie panicking if he picks him in his squad tomorrow. Players who have been out injured for some time must be given time to play their way back to fitness and form in a sensible manner and not thrown in against top international opposition.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/45894092
Confirmed on Beeb too - Mako and Isekwe out......

There are some fringe players that will really now get a chance to put a marker down.

Finishing options off the bench are going to be a bit thin though!

Hepburn or Moon have already been in the camps - Ruskin has also been talked out so may get a call.

Isekwe was a fring player anyway - but used for multi positional cover off bench - With Robshaw also out you would expect Ewers or Armond to surely get a call now.

propdavid_london wrote:There are some fringe players that will really now get a chance to put a marker down.  

Finishing options off the bench are going to be a bit thin though!

Hepburn or Moon have already been in the camps - Ruskin has also been talked out so may get a call.

Isekwe was a fring player anyway - but used for multi positional cover off bench - With Robshaw also out you would expect Ewers or Armond to surely get a call now.

A lot of talk around Rhodes for 6 as well.

Curry Wilson Mercer? Still think its too early for Mercer at 8 though

Mako out then


..should scroll up first

I would go for this V SA which is still a decent side

Hepburn
Hartley
Williams
Attwood Kruis
Itoje
Rhodes
Morgan
Curry
Youngs
Ford
May
Farrell
Slade
Daly
Brown

Subs
Rapava-Ruskin
George
Cole Sinckler
Lawes
Mercer
Care
Manu
Lozowski

I'd find it difficult to believe Lawes would drop to the bench with Attwood and Rhodes leapfrogging him into the starting line up

If anything I could see Kruis coming back in ahead of Attwood with Lawes/Itoje at 6

lostinwales wrote:Curry Wilson Mercer? Still think its too early for Mercer at 8 though

Can any of them carry in traffic to great affect? Without Mako as well, this will be an issue.

Hepburn, George and Sinckler might give us enough carriers to get away with this back row, but if Hughes is available I'd expect to see him in there. I'd also say Morgan is as likely as Mercer. Eddie's use of Tom Wood and Wigglesworth shows me he isn't afraid of using an experienced stopgap when the situation calls for it.

Will we see another 3/0/2 forward split on the bench? With Launchbury out, Eddie may start Itoje and Lawes at second row with Shields covering, as he did in South Africa. We could see Wilson/Rhodes, Curry and Hughes/Morgan start with Shields and Morgan/Mercer both on the bench?

BamBam wrote:I'd find it difficult to believe Lawes would drop to the bench with Attwood and Rhodes leapfrogging him into the starting line up

If anything I could see Kruis coming back in ahead of Attwood with Lawes/Itoje at 6

Good point re Kruis....I forgot about him and I agree a straight swap with Attwood.

I also forgot about Sinckler.....how is he playing? Good enough to start or should he remain a finisher when he seems to have considerable impact?

hugehandoff wrote:I also forgot about Sinckler.....how is he playing? Good enough to start or should he remain a finisher when he seems to have considerable impact?

My feeling with Sinckler is although he'll make more headline-making carries as a finisher, without two Vunipolas we might need him from the start to offer an option to get us onto front foot. He may not break a tackle and make the 20m carries he can do in the closing stages, but we'll need more people to get us over the gainline from the off.

It's not just his carrying, I also think his handling is better than Williams and Cole, so we can use him as a pivot or even just a tip option so we're not running one out the whole time and being lined up to get smashed behind the gainline.

I think especially in the opening matches against South Africa and New Zealand and with other players missing, we'll have to take the game to the opposition early on, even if that means we can't get the same impetus off the bench. The alternative would be to start weaker players and potentially be too far behind when we want to make our substitutions.

Mako was once seen as a finisher too. Now he starts most games and when Marler isn't available he'll often play deep into the game. I think Sinckler can develop to a similar level. Williams is a good player, but I don't think he has the same dynamism. Cole offers very little round the park, and as our scrum isn't monstering all others, he actually becomes a bit of a luxury.

I think sinckler is now the best tight head scrum wise. That's the big plus. I agree he offers the most coming from the bench in terms of carries however sinckler williams I think is the best duo.

While the backrow is a problem it is a good time to find a functioning backrow that has a year to settle. Billy has a 50:50 chance to make it. Not great odds if your plan is built around Him.

I know I asked the question earlier about experimenting but on reflection Eddie sticks to his picks even playing them out of position before calling in the cavalry. I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to play shields at 8 itoje at 6 and maybe stick with curry. Sam Underhill was back playing for bath against Toulouse so can see his inclusion in the squad. For me shields hasn't done enough yet as he has spent the season injured and his first game back was against leinster where no one but Thomas young came out with any real credit.

I also think Rhodes will get a cap to tie him to the red rose and potentially velacott to do the same, maybe against Japan. Either way we are far from the ideal and should look to see if we can change the way we play.

My desired pick due to merit eddies predicted pick:
6. Wilson 6. Itoje
7. Curry 7. Curry
8. Mercer. 8. Shields

Yoda wrote:...I have a sneaking suspicion he's going to play shields at 8 itoje at 6 and  maybe stick with curry.

You don't want to have injuries but the positive side is the chance to see what fringe, or out-of-favour players can do. That's why I suspect you are right, since a common theme of Jones' selection policy recently, is that he tends to do what least excites the average fan.

However, when Lawes and Itoje have played alongside another lock in the starting XV, Itoje has worn the six jersey but Lawes has packed down at blindside in the scrum.

Genuinely don't know who I'd want to see as a back row trio, because I have no sense of what our breakdown strategy is, and what we want players to do.

Incidentally, often see it said Tom Curry has the seven shirt now because he's the best in the country. Is that true? It sometimes seems that people just yearn for some degree of certainty, and so want him given a run. Is he really better than his brother or Kvesic? Also, if Simmons or Mercer ever pack down at eight, then I wonder whether Curry would the best match of skills, which then raises the question of who would be most important.

England men’s squad

Forwards (20)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints) co-captain
Alec Hepburn (Exeter Chiefs)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors) *
Maro Itoje (Saracens)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby)
Michael Rhodes (Saracens)
Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Elliott Stooke (Bath Rugby)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)

Backs (16)
Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks)
Mike Brown (Harlequins)
Danny Care (Harlequins)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Nathan Earle (Harlequins)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) co-captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Alex Lozowski (Saracens)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Richard Wigglesworth (Saracens)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

*Apprentice

Unavailable for selection
Jack Clifford (Harlequins)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Chris Robshaw (Harlequins)
Dan Robson (Wasps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby)

No Cips may break the internet

I'm happy with that squad all things considered.

Shame he picked T'eo as he just needs to regain form and fitness with his club. Rushing him back into international rugby, having been out for so long, is just not sensible. Otherwise it is not too bad with the obvious unlucky candidates missing out again.

If he plays Brown on the wing again I will despair!

That's not a bad squad tbh

I'm really surprised to see Ted Hill in so early, but the kid has just got so much potential. He was throwing around u20 internationals when he was still in school, unbelievable physicality for his age and he's looked terrific in the couple of games I've seen him in the GP this season

Can't imagine he'll get a start, but if he gets to play against Japan in some form that would be a massive achievement

In as an apprentice. Mercer and smith didn't get near a start but he has looked very good. Mercer has now obviously gone to full squad member while smith isn't quite there.

Just realised that Hartley and Farrell have been named co captains. A sign that Jones is ready to start George over hartley?

Interesting that Jack Clifford is listed as unavailable but Sam Simmonds isn't. Few others on there or not on their as well.

5 questions England need to answer this Autumn

1. 10/12 - are we sticking with Ford/Farrell? Or are we moving Farrell in to 10 and playing a hard carrying 12?

2. Scrum half - in the past Farrell has looked better with Care at 9 rather than Youngs, who also has a club partnership with Ford. However Youngs has been Eddie's starter. Assuming we switch to Farrell at 10, we will need a 9 to get the most out of him.

3. Full back - it was Elliot Daly in the summer and we can either commit to him now and give him the run of games, or go back to Brown. There should be no issue with Brown making the World Cup, but whether he is the best option is another question.

4. Blindside flanker - with Curry the incumbent 7 looking the most settled and the 8 pick being literally whoever is left standing, the blindside flanker is thrust into the spotlight. Robshaw is out which normally means Tom Wood or a second row shoehorned in. But this time we have 3 legitimate blindside options - Wilson, Shields and Rhodes. How Eddie picks between them and divides the minutes in the series I don't know, but can Eddie find a 6 that can help take our back row play to another level?

5. Hooker - and you can bundle captaincy in here as well. The question is as it has ever been, Hartley or George? And if we pick George, can Farrell successfully captain from 10? George didn't make an overwhelming success of his run of starts, so with Hartley back he might find himself back on the bench. But it's a position that will need nailing down quickly, because of its direct impact on the captaincy.

In Eddie we trust..................beginning to wear thin though, also beginning to doubt whether he watches the inform players?

TightHEAD wrote:In Eddie we trust..................beginning to wear thin though, also beginning to doubt whether he watches the inform players?

Not a trick question - apart from Cipriani who do you think he's missed out?

(edit) Don Armond?

lostinwales wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:In Eddie we trust..................beginning to wear thin though, also beginning to doubt whether he watches the inform players?

Not a trick question - apart from Cipriani who do you think he's missed out?

(edit) Don Armond?

And we know he watched Cipriani

Form players in the prem not picked; you could say. Armond cipriani townsend Goode williams kvesic ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Form players in the prem not picked; you could say. Armond cipriani townsend Goode williams kvesic ?

Dave Attwood, Ryan Mills, Marcus Smith and Ed Slater get name checked a fair bit too.

Eddie doesn't rate domestic form though. Rightly or wrongly. Players like Alex Goode and Dave Attwood have had chances before and deemed to come up short. They could win player of the season awards (and I believe Goode has) but it wouldn't be enough because it's "only" domestic.

That, plus the number of injuries we're currently having suggests to me that something should change.

Funny to see Manu & Wiggles there – reminds me of my youth, so long ago now. Pity Manu will tweak something or other before the series. I am interested to see Morgan in though – his fall from grace occurred after a serious injury (especially for such a big lad), be good to see if he can still do it at test level. I’m a bit concerned that EJ already has his RWC selection sorted in his mind, and will use injuries just to move chosen players around a bit – rather than looking for longer term development.

robbo277 wrote:Eddie doesn't rate domestic form though. Rightly or wrongly. Players like Alex Goode and Dave Attwood have had chances before and deemed to come up short. They could win player of the season awards (and I believe Goode has) but it wouldn't be enough because it's "only" domestic.

That, plus the number of injuries we're currently having suggests to me that something should change.

Goode has repeatedly shown that his domestic form doesn't translate to the international stage, though. And Attwood's problem is that he has four locks ahead of him who, when fit and in form, everyone is pretty much agreed are better than him.

Eddie is quite specific in what he looks for in players, and it's hard to fathom exactly what makes the difference between an international and someone he won't rate, but it doesn't seem to be a game of playing favourites.

Dan Robson is listed amongst the unavailable, so I am hoping Wigglesworth is only there for back up purposes.

You do sometimes wonder though. Why one Curry and not the other? (Would we notice if they were switched?)

I am pleased to see Ben Morgan given another shot. He had a horrendous injury and despite the injuries sustained by Billy V & Sam he's worthy of another cap. He's been playing really well for Gloucester and always seems to raise his game for England. Also he is one of the few England players around today who's actually been in an England team that've beaten the All Blacks. If he can get close to the form he showed then, he'll be a useful fella to have on the pitch. Love to see him go on a rampage.

Looking forward to seeing Mercer getting capped too. Ted Hill has been on fire and his inclusion is to presumably show him what he could do in the future, and if needed, maybe win a cap against Japan as we certainly know what the other locks bring.

Surprised to see Slater left out and I just hope that our looseheads are up to the job. Still, with the Cipriani thing the writing was already on the wall with him as far as Eddie goes - it's clear there's a problem between them (I reckon that's actually down to Jones). I am also prepared to give Ashton a chance provided he doesn't perform a few howlers in defence.

My predictions for playing well? Hepburn, Hartley, Lawes, Curry, Morgan from the pack, and Care, Daly, Slade and possibly May from the backs. I just hope both Teo and Tuilagi don't get crocked too easily.

Let's see how we get on...

Decent squad but will he use it effectively? Only two hookers so I guess if one gets crocked another is called in, but who? Two sevens, I had to rub my eyes when seeing that. Is Underhill better than kvesic? who's going to carry hard, or are we trying to move the ball more? So many questions and they will be answered in six weeks I guess. I'll back whoever wears the rose as always. Will give them a big cheer as just secured a ticket to the sa match

Yoda wrote:Decent squad but will he use it effectively? Only two hookers so I guess if one gets crocked another is called in, but who? Two sevens, I had to rub my eyes when seeing that. Is Underhill better than kvesic? who's going to carry hard, or are we trying to move the ball more? So many questions and they will be answered in six weeks I guess. I'll back whoever wears the rose as always. Will give them a big cheer as just secured a ticket to the sa match

I hope England win all their matches especially SA and NZ.

Just read that two of the six weeks Hughes is banned for are for the tweet. The other 4 being for the punch. So he could have been available for Japan and Australia had he reigned himself in during the hearing. If Morgan and/or Mercer play well and Billy gets back in for the Six Nations, he could easily find himself on the outside looking in.

robbo277 wrote:Just read that two of the six weeks Hughes is banned for are for the tweet. The other 4 being for the punch. So he could have been available for Japan and Australia had he reigned himself in during the hearing...

Yes and no. He got two weeks for the tweet but they run concurrently with the penalty for the punch. What made the overal ban longer, is that he lost his discount for pleading guilty, since the panel concluded he had done so as a tactic, rather than out of a genuine feeling he'd done something wrong.

Wades leaving rugby full stop then apparently.

Unlucky players:

LCD - with just two hookers named Jones would have to call up another hooker should either take a knock.

Attwood: Shows Eddies disdain for premiership form as he has been far superior to his two club colleagues who are included.

Armand: Really not sure what more he needs to do, or what Rhodes does better.

Spencer: Capped in teh Summer, he has been rotating with Wigglesworth at Sarries and sees his senior team mate called up instead.

Cipriani - Jones stated there was not enough room in the 36 man squad he can call up to allow for a 3rd FH, yet he "wasted" a place on an apprentice player.