Ireland Squad Nov 2018 - Who’s going to play errr England?

First topic message reminder :

Italy 3 Nov - Chicago - Ireland 54-7
Argentina 10 Nov Dublin - 28-17
New Zealand 17 Nov Dublin 16-9
USA 24 Nov Dublin - 52-14

November Total - 150-47

Frontrowers
Rory Best 112 (c)
Rob Herring 6
Sean Cronin 63
Niall Scannell 10

Tadhg Furlong 26
Andrew Porter 9
John Ryan 15

Finlay Bealham 8
Cian Healy 81
Dave Kilcoyne 23
Jack McGrath 51


Locks
Tadhg Beirne 3
Iain Henderson 40 USA
Quinn Roux 7
James Ryan 11
Devin Toner 61

Backrowers

Dan Leavy 10
Josh van der Flier 11
Jordi Murphy 23
Sean O’Brien 51
Peter O’Mahony 50 (vc)
Rhys Ruddock 20
Jack Conan 10
CJ Stander 26


Scrumhalves
John Cooney 3
Kieran Marmion 22
Luke McGrath 6

10s
Jonathan Sexton 76 (vc)
Ross Byrne 2
Joey Carbery 14

Centres
Garry Ringrose 15
Robbie Henshaw 36
Will Addison 2
Bundee Aki 10
Sam Arnold 1
Stuart McCloskey 3

Back three
Andrew Conway 8
Keith Earls 70
Rob Kearney 86
Jordan Larmour 7
Jacob Stockdale 12
Darren Sweetnam 3

Yeah its good world cup prep to play without Murray. I fancy Ireland to win if Barnes wasnt ref, he is though so its too much of a lottery.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:We need to win this game against NZ if we want to win the RWC. There is a good chance we will have to beat NZ, SA and Australia if we want to win the RWC per the below scenario:

Scenario 1:

It would be unprecedented if Ireland win that way. Only NZ have won the World Cup beating even 2 of the big 3 Southern Hemisphere teams in the knockouts (obviously they can't play themselves) in 2015.

England only beat 2 of the big 3 Southern Hemisphere teams to win their World Cup in 2003, and only once in the knockouts.

Of the Southern Hemisphere winners since South Africa's reintroduction, South Africa beat both in 95 but Australia were beaten in the pool stages. Australia avoided in 99, SA avoided both Australia and New Zealand all tournament in 2007 and NZ avoided South Africa in 2011.

However, current rankings and recent results might suggest that if Ireland won that way, they'd be lucky to have avoided England and Wales.

Wales are ranked third and have won their last game against Australia and their last 3 against South Africa.
England are ranked fourth and have won their last 5 games against Australia and their last 2 against South Africa.

Meanwhile South Africa are ranked 5th and Australia are ranked 7th.

I have got to say I agree. I think Id prefer to face Aus and SA than England, Wales or even Argentina.

Yes with the plethora of cups they have compared to SA and Oz.

I see Henshaws out, backing your side yet? I mean if no. 5 england can nearly win, surely youd back your own number 2?

Australia and SA could have hundred cups between them but it wouldnt matter as they arent as good as England and Wales and more importantly Ireland at the moment. This Irish team certainly wont fear them, why would they?

LordDowlais wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah I think ireland are a better team than scotland. Not controversial to say that.

Unless you’re Welsh of course....

In that scenario...

With a loooong history of jumping away from conclusions rather than to them when confronted by pesky facts.

What has being Welsh have to do with anything?

Grief.

Exactly. Grief.

Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Wow, great then I stand corrected. Id hoped Murray would start too, pity. Do we know whats actially wrong with him yet? AB paralysis maybe? Bit odd that one.
DMac will start, too late to change anything now.

Collapse2005 wrote:Yeah its good world cup prep to play without Murray. I fancy Ireland to win if Barnes wasnt ref, he is though so its too much of a lottery.

Probably the diff then. Rugbyvtests are never a lottery beforehand.
‘Statistics show Ireland have lost nine of the 14 games Barnes has officiated, leading Sexton to implore the utmost discipline from his team this weekend.’

Ooh, naughty Ireland. Yellow for sexton again barnsey?

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Yeah its good world cup prep to play without Murray. I fancy Ireland to win if Barnes wasnt ref, he is though so its too much of a lottery.

Probably the diff then. Rugbyvtests are never a lottery beforehand.
‘Statistics show Ireland have lost nine of the 14 games Barnes has officiated, leading Sexton to implore the utmost discipline from his team this weekend.’

Ooh, naughty Ireland. Yellow for sexton again barnsey?

Well given Ireland have a win rate of 70 plus percent and yet around 33% when Barnes refs, suffice to say he doesnt give that much confidence in a win.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Yeah its good world cup prep to play without Murray. I fancy Ireland to win if Barnes wasnt ref, he is though so its too much of a lottery.

Probably the diff then. Rugbyvtests are never a lottery beforehand.
‘Statistics show Ireland have lost nine of the 14 games Barnes has officiated, leading Sexton to implore the utmost discipline from his team this weekend.’

Ooh, naughty Ireland. Yellow for sexton again barnsey?

The man's a feckin' disaster for us. But our luck has gotta change some time, right?

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Yeah its good world cup prep to play without Murray. I fancy Ireland to win if Barnes wasnt ref, he is though so its too much of a lottery.

Probably the diff then. Rugbyvtests are never a lottery beforehand.
‘Statistics show Ireland have lost nine of the 14 games Barnes has officiated, leading Sexton to implore the utmost discipline from his team this weekend.’

Ooh, naughty Ireland. Yellow for sexton again barnsey?

The man's a feckin' disaster for us.    But our luck has gotta change some time, right?

Yep, no bigger disaster than we had with him and our rate is low as well.

Its changed for us. We love him in NZ, the cheeky b*** signs the hotel guestbooks 'Wayne Barnes was here' or something like that.

We don't care too much about who refs before the game...whats the point. Crying aint gonna get you anywhere.

He's ok. He's one of the stronger scrum refs now and at least he can make a decision these days. Went white as a ghost in 207, froze on the occasion so everyone else had to work it out for themselves.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Wow, great then I stand corrected. Id hoped Murray would start too, pity. Do we know whats actially wrong with him yet? AB paralysis maybe? Bit odd that one.
DMac will start, too late to change anything now.

Both our reserve scrum halves scored tries v Argentina. I think we will be ok.

In fact all our subs made a big difference. Mcgrath in scrum, Toner in lineout, Leavy at the breakdown and Luke McGrath scored a try. Those guys made a big difference.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Wow, great then I stand corrected. Id hoped Murray would start too, pity. Do we know whats actially wrong with him yet? AB paralysis maybe? Bit odd that one.
DMac will start, too late to change anything now.

Both our reserve scrum halves scored tries v Argentina. I think we will be ok.

Yes, one of them looked Murray like in scoring...

So O'Brien, Henshaw and Murray definitively out.

Question marks on Kearney, Ringrose? Aki?

Good to go -
Healy, McGrath, Best, Cronin/Scannell, Furlong, Porter/Ryan
Toner, Ryan, Beirne
Leavy/VdF, POM, Stander - Murphy/Conan

McGrath to start if Marmion injured? Cooney on the bench
Sexton, Carbery
Aki/Ringrose - maybe or else McCloskey/Addison??
Earls, Stockdale
Conway/Larmour

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Wow, great then I stand corrected. Id hoped Murray would start too, pity. Do we know whats actially wrong with him yet? AB paralysis maybe? Bit odd that one.
DMac will start, too late to change anything now.

Both our reserve scrum halves scored tries v Argentina. I think we will be ok.

Yes, one of them looked Murray like in scoring...

Kinda like a whatchamacallit, like a you know, scrum thingy, the guy who puts the ball in, and snipes and passes and scores, the scrum-half, that's it.

Pot Hale wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

No they dont. Ireland have wins against England and Australia without Murray. He is not the be all and end all.

Hope DMac starts.

Wow, great then I stand corrected. Id hoped Murray would start too, pity. Do we know whats actially wrong with him yet? AB paralysis maybe? Bit odd that one.
DMac will start, too late to change anything now.

Both our reserve scrum halves scored tries v Argentina. I think we will be ok.

Yes, one of them looked Murray like in scoring...

Kinda like a whatchamacallit, like a you know, scrum thingy, the guy who puts the ball in, and snipes and passes and scores, the scrum-half, that's it.

Pretty much. If Murrays getting selected for it, others are sure going to be doing it.
Not a fave way of scoring for me but e ya gotta do it. The skill isnt so much doing it, but knowing when to do it. Murray picks those pretty well.

Ireland just have to be clever with Barnes. He is a very good referee but he is one that you have to adjust to. Ireland, in the past, have simply been guilty of not adjusting to the way he runs the game whereas other teams have.

All referees adjudicate games differently and preparation for the referee is as important as all other aspects of match preparation for my mind.

Taylorman wrote:Yep agree re Murray, Ireland look near naked without him. After last weekend no way Aki wont be starting, hes exactly what they need close to the line.
England nearly won with more key players out and if its a dry track it should be interesting. We lise SBW and thats probably a good thing if anything. Selectors have stayed with him too long.
ABs have lost ground to make up after that match, far too many unforced individual errors. At least Retallick stole a few.
DMac actually played pretty well on reflection so I think that experiment will stay, Hansen will want to test it on a good track.

I am not a fan of Aki, never have been and do not feel he is of International 12 standards. I would love to see Farrell or Scannell to come in at 12. Both are solid defenders and have good playmaking ability.

I think Aki is our fourth choice centre. He's strong and athletic but sometimes telegraphs what he is about to do which makes him easier to defend. Compare that with Addison's performance on Saturday where he carried the ball in two hands until much later to keep the defenders guessing. Farrell has a bit more subtlety about him.

Murray is a big loss because now Ireland have to kinda play more like ....the ABs.  With Murray in situ, Ireland can heavy hand the tactics, make things sticky and frustrating for the opposition.... he can niggle the nice smooth gameplans of fast sides and rattle them.

But if McGrath is there.... well........... Ireland will have to try to up the tempo earlier, I feel, to keep the ball in motion and to keep McGrath out of the more physical style confrontations.  Tough day at the office to try to play the ABs at their own game because if shape goes out of the structure and it all becomes freeform............. there's only one winner, and by a distance.


Ireland











Only joking ...can yis not take a joke???

Could be a bit of a humiliation coming if'n Joe hasn't got a very good plan ready for this here game.

Engine#4 wrote:I think Aki is our fourth choice centre.  He's strong and athletic but sometimes telegraphs what he is about to do which makes him easier to defend. Compare that with Addison's performance on Saturday where he carried the ball in two hands until much later to keep the defenders guessing. Farrell has a bit more subtlety about him.

Aki may tell you where he's heading but at least he puts the afterburners on and really hits the attack with intent. No point in getting a ball with one or two hands if you're trying to do too many juggles and feints in a top class game. You just won't get the space. Momentum is the bullet we need.... virtually every player needs to bless himself and say he needs about 20% more basterde in his drive than most of them showed last week.

I assume that specifically, the breakdown area will have to be much much more brutal (in assault and numbers given to it) than last week.

I'm going to be bold
Ireland to win by 10+

Fairly sure Marmion will start. He is a good defender and solid at most things. Mcgrath off the bench.

Marmion will need a much better performance to survive out there. If he starts, I just hope he clicks.

Ireland have an unusually bad record with Barnes as the referee compared to other officials, although maybe he turned a corner in the 6N Scotland game?

If the ABs intend to repeat their 'physical' game plan of two years ago will Wayne be brave enough to issue a couple of reds unlike Jaco (wet toilet) Peyper?

The Great Aukster wrote: Jaco (wet toilet) Peyper?

Have to admit, I sniggered.

After last weekend, I'm feeling 50/50....which is good considering before last weekend I was probably 50.01/49.99.

ABs are a tough nut to crack, let's be honest.  And they usually enjoy cracking other people's nuts.... painfully.

If Ireland pulls this off, it'll be one heck of a win because this time neither side will have excuses.  Ireland will be without Murray, a player that has grown and grown into the Joe Schmidt system in partnership with Sexton.  The two navigators.
New Zealand have no excuses.... they're aware of us now, we're number2, we can pull off no underdog surprises on them.  They'll expect a hard fight and hopefully we give them one.

If they win and I can say it was still a 50/50 battle the whole way, then I'll be content enough - FURIOUS but content
If it's a rout, I'll be either heading for the nearest sea cliff or on my way to a self propelled circuit of the moon.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/46202525

Guess Tana does not speak for the two kiwi posters on here when he says:

Ireland ‘worry everyone’ in New Zealand

So the auld (ie clichéd) Getting-Under-The-Skin operations have begun in earnest, I see.

These sports people are great at running but lingo............ very repetitive.  If it's not "in all fairness", it's "Yeah, no" or "at the end of the day".

Anyway, New Zealand have thrown out numero two coach, Ian Foster, to do the 'getting under the skin' bit.  And the journalists will fall for the 'Optics' and say that Hansen is taking the focus off his team etc, etc.....

So he says Sexton is going to be wanting to direct the ref.............. *yawn* I mean, Yeah.
And he's saying Bundee now looks like an Irishman............. That one was good.  Never heard that one before.

I'm disappointed in the pre-game fireworks though.  Must be the rain that got to them.

LondonTiger wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/46202525

Guess Tana does not speak for the two kiwi posters on here when he says:

Ireland ‘worry everyone’ in New Zealand

I think Ireland do pose a threat to The All Black dominance of rugby. They have been incredibly consistent and have a very strong strength in depth right now. Its all warming up for the RWC

Ireland can only meet NZ in the quarters or the final presuming NZ do what they have always done and win their group. One way or another if Ireland want to win the RWC there is quite a high chance they will have to beat NZ along the way unless Scotland or someone can knock them out.

eirebilly wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-union/46202525

Guess Tana does not speak for the two kiwi posters on here when he says:

Ireland ‘worry everyone’ in New Zealand

I think Ireland do pose a threat to The All Black dominance of rugby. They have been incredibly consistent and have a very strong strength in depth right now. Its all warming up for the RWC

I'd say 'Yeah...ish', billy, but hand on heart, I'd have to include other sides with us. World Cups are one off games and all of the top four or five could catch the ABs out in any one off game. ABs still have the kudos of being extremely methodical in their quality control levels.

Hope we prove we're in this fight still by the end of next weekend - win or lose. Even a losing result will be telling in the nature of the fight.

Interesting. Not only are they a possibility of winning this match, theyre also good enough to end their dominance as well, meaning theyll need to be operating in the one loss maximum two a year zone every year, and put away most tier one teams easily, scoring nearly four tries on average every single test. Thats what dominance currently means.

Didnt think Ireland are operating in that space yet so interesting to see if that domination, particularly against other sides, is there next 1-2 years.

Taylorman wrote:Interesting. Not only are they a possibility of winning this match, theyre also good enough to end their dominance as well, meaning theyll need to be operating in the one loss maximum two a year zone every year, and put away most tier one teams easily, scoring nearly four tries on average every single test. Thats what dominance currently means.

Didnt think Ireland are operating in that space yet so interesting to see if that domination, particularly against other sides, is there next 1-2 years.

I think if Schmidt is still Ireland coach in 2022 a first win in NZ could be on the cards. Decision time in a week or so. It would grate if by 2022 Ireland are facing Schmidt as coach in NZ.

Ireland don't play a high scoring game plan, the game plan revolves around grinding teams down but as long as you're winning it doesn't really matter.

Taylorman wrote:Interesting. Not only are they a possibility of winning this match, theyre also good enough to end their dominance as well, meaning theyll need to be operating in the one loss maximum two a year zone every year, and put away most tier one teams easily, scoring nearly four tries on average every single test. Thats what dominance currently means.

Didnt think Ireland are operating in that space yet so interesting to see if that domination, particularly against other sides, is there next 1-2 years.

I think that Ireland, given their strength in depth and recent consistency, do pose a very real threat of ending The All Black dominance. That is not saying they will but they are in the best position right now to do it.

carpet baboon wrote:I'm going to be bold
Ireland to win by 10+

I thought we might win between 7-10 points until I saw Wayne Barnes was ref, now I'll go New Zealand by 50.

In seriousness scrum half and mid field is a bit of worry. I really hope Aki and Ringrose are fit. I really like what I've seen of Addison but think he needs more time to bed into the defensive systems although will be interesting to see if he or Conway is on the bench.

I don't rate Marmion, I think his service is too slow and would prefer McGrath to start.

Marmion's defense is quite good though no?

Marmion is going to have to play out of his skin. Can see him struggling if chosen.

I think the ABs see this game as important enough to lay down some never-before-seen practiced plays..... the ones they save for insurance.
If they slice us once or twice early then it'll take monumental effort to collect the nerves again and play on. Marmion just didn't look assured last week. McGrath has the air of someone with more confidence to keep spirits up if hit by ABs pomp in the early stages.

Has Kearney been ruled out? If not then he starts for me, if he is then I would be more than happy to stick with Larmour.

Collapse2005 wrote:Marmion's defense is quite good though no?

His cover defense yeah and he has a good sniping game. I just think he's a bit labored at getting to the breakdown and think Sexton's out of sorts game against Argentina was in part due to Marmion.

McGrath has looked sharp for Leinster.

Yeah McGrath looked good when he came on but by that stage the game was opening up a bit. Hard to tell how good he would be for the full 80.

eirebilly wrote:Has Kearney been ruled out? If not then he starts for me, if he is then I would be more than happy to stick with Larmour.

Kearney has been ruled out, billy...but has agreed to play anyway because of the nature of the game. Now that's commitment.

When is the squad announced? Tomorrow?

Yeah its normally lunch time on Thursday for a Saturday kick off.

If Kearney is out I would prefer Conway was to start at 15. Hes defensively sound, good under the high ball and has the capacity to create something special. Its too soon for Larmour I think, although maybe a bench spot?

I agree. Hopefully Toner and Ryan start too.

Golden wrote:Yeah its normally lunch time on Thursday for a Saturday kick off.

If Kearney is out I would prefer Conway was to start at 15. Hes defensively sound, good under the high ball and has the capacity to create something special. Its too soon for Larmour I think, although maybe a bench spot?

Conway is a good option but I would still go with Larmour. A bad game does not mean he is not ready for me. All the back 3 had issues under the high ball last weekend, not just Larmour so I put that more down to the conditions.

I think it was down to caution about what Argentina were going to bring - perhaps over-caution but it spooked the early rhythm of the Irish team.

We now play a team that spooks all the time.  Hopefully the cobwebs and tension has been used up in that Argentine game.  Nothing to lose now - except the game of course - but this is the game the Irish players have been thinking about all Summer into Autumn.  Larmour might be smoother now, of course that might happen.

Still..... now I'm quite cautious myself.  The team can't afford one 'off' performance player in this team.

My 23 would be -

1 Healy
2 Best
3 Furlong
4 Toner
5 Ryan
6 O'Mahoney
7 Leavy
8 Stander
9 McGrath
10 Sexton
11 Stockdale
12 Aki
13 Ringrose
14 Earls
15 Kearney (Larmour)

McGrath, Cronin, Porter, Henderson, Murphy, Marmion, Carbery, Addison

Im the same though Id probably start Marmion

Collapse2005 wrote:Im the same though Id probably start Marmion

I'd probably go Ruddock ahead of Murphy, he's more physical and in better form, but think they'll go with Murphy due to his versatility.