Ireland Squad Nov 2018 - Who’s going to play errr England?

First topic message reminder :

Italy 3 Nov - Chicago - Ireland 54-7
Argentina 10 Nov Dublin - 28-17
New Zealand 17 Nov Dublin 16-9
USA 24 Nov Dublin - 52-14

November Total - 150-47

Frontrowers
Rory Best 112 (c)
Rob Herring 6
Sean Cronin 63
Niall Scannell 10

Tadhg Furlong 26
Andrew Porter 9
John Ryan 15

Finlay Bealham 8
Cian Healy 81
Dave Kilcoyne 23
Jack McGrath 51


Locks
Tadhg Beirne 3
Iain Henderson 40 USA
Quinn Roux 7
James Ryan 11
Devin Toner 61

Backrowers

Dan Leavy 10
Josh van der Flier 11
Jordi Murphy 23
Sean O’Brien 51
Peter O’Mahony 50 (vc)
Rhys Ruddock 20
Jack Conan 10
CJ Stander 26


Scrumhalves
John Cooney 3
Kieran Marmion 22
Luke McGrath 6

10s
Jonathan Sexton 76 (vc)
Ross Byrne 2
Joey Carbery 14

Centres
Garry Ringrose 15
Robbie Henshaw 36
Will Addison 2
Bundee Aki 10
Sam Arnold 1
Stuart McCloskey 3

Back three
Andrew Conway 8
Keith Earls 70
Rob Kearney 86
Jordan Larmour 7
Jacob Stockdale 12
Darren Sweetnam 3

eirebilly wrote:

Golden wrote:Yeah its normally lunch time on Thursday for a Saturday kick off.

If Kearney is out I would prefer Conway was to start at 15. Hes defensively sound, good under the high ball and has the capacity to create something special. Its too soon for Larmour I think, although maybe a bench spot?

Conway is a good option but I would still go with Larmour. A bad game does not mean he is not ready for me. All the back 3 had issues under the high ball last weekend, not just Larmour so I put that more down to the conditions.

Its not the one game that concerns me. He was caught out defensively a few times in the Toulouse game and also even in the Scarlets game

Must have missed that Golden so fair dues.

I just think that he is ready for the big tests and I think the more exposure he gets against the top playing nations, the better and more confident he will get.

eirebilly wrote:Must have missed that Golden so fair dues.

I just think that he is ready for the big tests and I think the more exposure he gets against the top playing nations, the better and more confident he will get.

Absolutely he needs exposure and if he plays then it will definitely stand to him. I just think Conway would offer us a better chance of winning this one game.

Steady Eddie has had his say on Barnes too:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/108582576/former-ireland-coach-eddie-osullivan-raises-fluster-fears-over-whistle-happy-referee-wayne-barnes-for-all-blacks-test

I have got to say I agree that in high profile tests Barnes tends to lose the plot a bit. Sexton and Ferris picked up very soft yellows against Wales in the past. He tends to be the centre of attention in tests a bit too much and not very flexible in terms of listening to captains etc.

I don't know where people get the idea that he is a good referee. I cant really recall a worse one so I think its a shame he got this test.

He is a good ref. Hes just not been good for Ireland. Thats how you work that out.

He's improved.

If we lose it won't Barnes' fault.....it'll be that serious vomiting flu-like illness that a good few of the Irish players have succumbed to this week............

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Interesting. Not only are they a possibility of winning this match, theyre also good enough to end their dominance as well, meaning theyll need to be operating in the one loss maximum two a year zone every year, and put away most tier one teams easily, scoring nearly four tries on average every single test. Thats what dominance currently means.

Didnt think Ireland are operating in that space yet so interesting to see if that domination, particularly against other sides, is there next 1-2 years.

I think if Schmidt is still Ireland coach in 2022 a first win in NZ could be on the cards. Decision time in a week or so. It would grate if by 2022 Ireland are facing Schmidt as coach in NZ.

Ireland don't play a high scoring game plan, the game plan revolves around grinding teams down but as long as you're winning it doesn't really matter.

Aha, only way Ireland can be successful is via the kiwi coach? Funny, we seem to get comments like my Grandmother could coach the ABs and theyd win. But with Ireland it seems this dominance is only a possibility through the kiwi coach. Sounds more like Dependence rather than dominance to me.

Other sides in the past talk about taking the number one ranking, or winning, but not Ireland, they want to skip all that and go straight for Dominance...kiwi coach intact that is.

SecretFly wrote:He's improved.

If we lose it won't Barnes' fault.....it'll be that serious vomiting flu-like illness that a good few of the Irish players have succumbed to this week............

Goodhue had glandular fever. Perhaps hes sharing?

Perhaps its nerves

Mothers day?

It's a terrible bout they have, Taylor. They can't even train. But they'll heroically turn up anyway, coz that's just the Celtic way.

If they play even 30% levels they should get the win.... provided the ref allows regular toilet breaks.

SecretFly wrote:It's a terrible bout they have, Taylor.  They can't even train.  But they'll heroically turn up anyway, coz that's just the Celtic way.

If they play even 30% levels they should get the win.... provided the ref allows regular toilet breaks.

Barnes? Toilet breaks? Should be ok actually. He took a 60 minute one in 07, no one knew where he was. Was a stone lighter after all that puking

He tried to make it up a few years later in a France v Wales game.... tried to play the extra 60 minutes he felt he owed.

I hope he brings his good watch this time. Wouldn't want to be clinging on to a 2 point lead over the ABs for 95 minutes!

SecretFly wrote:He tried to make it up a few years later in a France v Wales game.... tried to play the extra 60 minutes he felt he owed.

Oh that was he?

I watched that game live, unbelievable.

Perhaps his new contract was at minute rates and he thought, well, I clocked off half an hour later at my last job at the underwear factory, so why cant I here? I mean...no one noticed there.

Weather for Saturday. Googling it looks like mostly sunny, a bit of wind cloud and 11 degrees, no rain forcast. Sound about right?

"Today at 2:25 am
by Golden
eirebilly wrote:
Must have missed that Golden so fair dues.

I just think that he is ready for the big tests and I think the more exposure he gets against the top playing nations, the better and more confident he will get.

Absolutely he needs exposure and if he plays then it will definitely stand to him. I just think Conway would offer us a better chance of winning this one game."

I'd tend to agree with the Conway to fullback line. He's vastly improved under the high ball in recent years and New Zealand kick more than most despite what they would have you believe. Very unlucky with injuries too.

Engine#4 wrote:"Today at 2:25 am
by Golden
eirebilly wrote:
Must have missed that Golden so fair dues.

I just think that he is ready for the big tests and I think the more exposure he gets against the top playing nations, the better and more confident he will get.

Absolutely he needs exposure and if he plays then it will definitely stand to him. I just think Conway would offer us a better chance of winning this one game."

I'd tend to agree with the Conway to fullback line. He's vastly improved under the high ball in recent years and New Zealand kick more than most despite what they would have you believe. Very unlucky with injuries too.

So...were Ireland's problems there a bluff to encourage more kicking?

Engine#4 wrote:"Today at 2:25 am
by Golden
eirebilly wrote:
Must have missed that Golden so fair dues.

I just think that he is ready for the big tests and I think the more exposure he gets against the top playing nations, the better and more confident he will get.

Absolutely he needs exposure and if he plays then it will definitely stand to him. I just think Conway would offer us a better chance of winning this one game."

I'd tend to agree with the Conway to fullback line. He's vastly improved under the high ball in recent years and New Zealand kick more than most despite what they would have you believe. Very unlucky with injuries too.

I think the kicking stat is a bit misleading. NZ varies its kicking much more than other sides as well. Most sides kick for the line, or box kick, where most of NZs kicking isnt so much territory based but a way to regain possession immediately upfield.

Last weekend Sexton only kicked 7 times and hardly ran- 4 meters. He passed 45 times. But the majority of that were one ups. He simply passed any possession onto the rest of the team. Sexton got no turnovers, offloads, beat no defenders, basically just shifted the ball on, or kicked. Perhaps good decision making, very little creativity in a match that yearned for it.

Barrett, in the wet, passed, kicked, and ran equally about 18 each. 36 meters, 7 defenders beaten and forced a turnover and got an offload away. He's clearly the more creative, positive, risk taking 10 of the 2, and that there sums up the difference between the thinking of the two sides.

Yet Ireland had a wealth of possession to attack, and spent most of it doing one or two ups until they were near the goal line.

Both successful yet very different approaches. On a relative basis, Barrett consistently looks to do stuff, Sexton is happy to lets others do it.

Not saying which approach is better, just the one I'd prefer.

A grand Schmidt plan? He is a New Zealander after all. Every action has reasoning behind it and an end goal.

Nah I think Larmour and Stockdale just misjudged a couple and Earls wasn't really kicked at.

I don't think many who have watched Sexton play a bit would agree with that. His game is to take it to the line and put one of his teamates through a gap with quick wrists, often taking heavy hits as a result. He is 33 and was never blessed with the pace of Barrett, yet has historically made plenty of breaks. His first thought is always towards scoring tries rather than kicking points.

Argentina defended very well last weekend especially in midfield. Meanwhile Sexton had an off day with the boot. Perhaps that combined with the talent in the Argentinian back three put him off chipping over the top.

Yep fair comment though I definitely think the 'first thought is scoring tries' bit isn't in the same thinking plane as it is with Barrett.

That's ALL he's thinking, 90% of the time. Though that's often his problem.

Sexton leads the decision making stakes and in all honesty, he doesnt look or play like he's 33 so gotta keep remembering that.

Well I'm not going to argue that Sexton is as gung-ho as Barrett. He's not and he doesn't have the natural gifts to be. Being healthily biased I still wouldn't trade him just yet

Yes for me even though DMac and Barrett are creating a lot of opportunites we arent breaking the defences and for me that's where the real strengths of England and Ireland are in terms of the AB's.

England for example got schooled at scrum time by SA and vs NZ Retallick gave Itoje a nightmare in the lineouts, in the end NZ may as well have been throwing the England ball in we were winning so much of their ball.

Yet the defence held in both matches, some of it due to handling lapses- Savea would normally have held the one he dropped in open space to the line.

Ireland present a totally different matchup up front though I'm wondering if Italy and a light Argie pack has been enough to put Ireland under the sort of pressure they need to face the AB's, certainly the likes of Ryan will present a good challenge at lineout time, and the battle with Furlong will be very interesting, our props being told he's the worlds best.

Tis looking like a genuine battle we have on our hands.

All Blacks: Damian McKenzie, Ben Smith, Jack Goodhue, Ryan Crotty, Rieko Ioane, Beauden Barrett, Aaron Smith, Kieran Read (capt), Ardie Savea, Liam Squire, Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Owen Franks, Codie Taylor, Karl Tu'inukuafe. Reserves: Dane Coles, Ofa Tu'ungafasi, Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Matt Todd, TJ Perenara, Richie Mo'unga, Anton Lienert-Brown.

Pretty much the same team , as expected.
Crotty to start.

Crotty is probably better than SBW now anyway.

I have always thought that Ben Smith was a better 15 than a wing and I have never been convinced by Damian McKenzie at 15. For me Damian McKenzie is far better from the bench to cover 10.

eirebilly wrote:I have always thought that Ben Smith was a better 15 than a wing and I have never been convinced by Damian McKenzie at 15. For me Damian McKenzie is far better from the bench to cover 10.

Yeah bench man for me too but to cover 15.

eirebilly wrote:I have always thought that Ben Smith was a better 15 than a wing and I have never been convinced by Damian McKenzie at 15. For me Damian McKenzie is far better from the bench to cover 10.

Yes its an ongoing dilemma. Scorers here had DMac a 9/10 vs England. Retallick an 8.
For me all this talent is looking crowded. Hansen wants em all on at some point.

Hes determined to impress.

17 wins from Irelands last 18 games and 10 in a row at home. The ultimate test comes on Saturday. Are we really contenders?

Collapse2005 wrote:17 wins from Irelands last 18 games and 10 in a row at home. The ultimate test comes on Saturday. Are we really contenders?

It's a great chance to measure our progress a year out from the RWC.

I think a 1 score loss wouldn't be a disaster but the injuries apart this is a great opportunity to get a second win in 3 games.

Collapse2005 wrote:17 wins from Irelands last 18 games and 10 in a row at home. The ultimate test comes on Saturday. Are we really contenders?

Dunno. What do you think?

Looks like great rugby weather in dublin for Saturday.
Battle for best coming up... again.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:17 wins from Irelands last 18 games and 10 in a row at home. The ultimate test comes on Saturday. Are we really contenders?

Dunno. What do you think?

We will know Saturday evening.

Team announced in the next hour or so. Expected to be:

Cian Healy
Rory Best
Tadhg Furlong
Devin Toner
James Ryan
Peter O'Mahony
Dan Leavy
CJ Stander
Kieran Marmion
Johnny Sexton
Jacob Stockdale
Bundee Aki
Garry Ringrose
Keith Earls
Rob Kearney

I think Ireland will win by at least 10 points. It could be 12.

At least 3 tries from Stockdale, Ringrose, McGrath, Carbery or Leavy.

I fully accept that my prediction could be wrong but hey that's half the fun.

I've put €40 on a 1-12 margin for Ireland. So if they win by 15 I will be very upset.

The end.

Any news?

rodders wrote:Any news?

Lots, mainly about the cluster f**k Brexit, but none so far on the team

carpet baboon wrote:

rodders wrote:Any news?

Lots, mainly about the cluster f**k Brexit, but none so far on the team

Maybe they are checking the withdrawal text to see the ABs need a visa to cross the Irish sea?

It's as we expected

Toner marmion and Rob start.
VDF Henderson and Jordan on bench

Strong and stable.... VDF is an interesting one, maybe some concern about Leavy's fitness.

rodders wrote:Strong and stable.... VDF is an interesting one, maybe some concern about Leavy's fitness.

Why? Did you expect Murphy or Ruddock?

If Henderson is on the bench does it not make sense having VdF too?

Kearney, Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale, Sexton, Marmion
Healy, Best, Furlong, Ryan, Toner, Leavy, POM, Stander

Cronin, Healy, Porter, Henderson, vdF, McGrath, Carbery, Larmour.

Its a decent side for Ireland but not one that I see are going to score many tries. I doubt that Stockdale or Earls will see much of the ball again this match.

It is a side that is capable of grinding out a win against the All Blacks though.

Looks a good bench.

Kearney what you lose going forward you gain going back
Marmion has played big games and will keep the ball moving and knows when to go and when to stay.

Excited form the 2nd row battle the most

Its a very good pack and ne that I think will dominate the All Blacks but I just feel that Ireland loose creativity with Aki at 12. I would almost consider replacing Aki with Carbery if Ireland do get a lot of forward dominance.

I know teams often say that they are missing people and if only they had those players they would have won.

Both these teams a near full strenght. Aki and Henshaw isn't to bad and I think Aki will have a great game and may even wind up a few people. Murray is the big lost but Marmion does lose us games and was there in Twickers which was a more pressure game than this one. O'Brien isn't first choice and needs to earn it back when he returns.

Not sure if NZ are missing anyone besides SBW who is the only player who does whatever he wants between WCs and walks back into the side. I don't think he is that much better than his peers but he never seems to have to win the Shirt back so might be missed.

NZ are missing Moody and Cane. Moody is a bit of a loss but not sure they lose much with Savea ahead of Cane. Neither are better than Leavy anyway.

eirebilly wrote:Its a very good pack and ne that I think will dominate the All Blacks but I just feel that Ireland loose creativity with Aki at 12. I would almost consider replacing Aki with Carbery if Ireland do get a lot of forward dominance.

Aki will spot small wholes and then blow them open. With Ringrose or one of the wingers on a shoulded we can make ground. It would be unwise to have a weak channel that would be targeted. Maybe Earls will move to the centre and we will see Lamour and Stockdale on the wings for the last 15 mins

Collapse2005 wrote:

rodders wrote:Strong and stable.... VDF is an interesting one, maybe some concern about Leavy's fitness.

Why? Did you expect Murphy or Ruddock?

If Henderson is on the bench does it not make sense having VdF too?

No you're right, I just think as a bench player Murphy or Ruddock offer a bit more physicality and versatility. VDF is quality but he's more a work rate player than an impact one.

I sometimes find Alan Quinlan's voice a bit droney when he's a pundit on Off the Ball, but I do like his story at the start of this video.

Incidentally, it has been good to see Tana Umaga and BOD appearing together in the build-up to this fixture. They've been as clear as they can be that the 2005 incident is water under the bridge,