Ireland Squad Nov 2018 - Who’s going to play errr England?

First topic message reminder :

Italy 3 Nov - Chicago - Ireland 54-7
Argentina 10 Nov Dublin - 28-17
New Zealand 17 Nov Dublin 16-9
USA 24 Nov Dublin - 52-14

November Total - 150-47

Frontrowers
Rory Best 112 (c)
Rob Herring 6
Sean Cronin 63
Niall Scannell 10

Tadhg Furlong 26
Andrew Porter 9
John Ryan 15

Finlay Bealham 8
Cian Healy 81
Dave Kilcoyne 23
Jack McGrath 51


Locks
Tadhg Beirne 3
Iain Henderson 40 USA
Quinn Roux 7
James Ryan 11
Devin Toner 61

Backrowers

Dan Leavy 10
Josh van der Flier 11
Jordi Murphy 23
Sean O’Brien 51
Peter O’Mahony 50 (vc)
Rhys Ruddock 20
Jack Conan 10
CJ Stander 26


Scrumhalves
John Cooney 3
Kieran Marmion 22
Luke McGrath 6

10s
Jonathan Sexton 76 (vc)
Ross Byrne 2
Joey Carbery 14

Centres
Garry Ringrose 15
Robbie Henshaw 36
Will Addison 2
Bundee Aki 10
Sam Arnold 1
Stuart McCloskey 3

Back three
Andrew Conway 8
Keith Earls 70
Rob Kearney 86
Jordan Larmour 7
Jacob Stockdale 12
Darren Sweetnam 3

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

I think an Irishman should win POTY, Im just not a big fan of Sexton in terms of a great 10. Thats my own opinion. For me hes a great decision maker and does things well, and has good consistency. At 33 hes suddenly world POTY doing basically what hes always done?

I just think the winner should stand out a bit more as an individual, Furlong clearly the best tighthead prop, and mean around the field.

For me Sextons like a poor mans Carter. Good at all aspects of 10 play, great at none. A great team man, not a stand out as an individual, a position where there arent currently many great ones around. Barrett, Sanchez, Sexton. Not a great crop at the moment.

Id give it to Furlong on that basis. Just my opinion.

Sexton though is constrained to a good degree by the system at Ireland.  Indeed, you can see his more gung ho attitude coming to the fore when Rory overrules his more aggressive instincts and commands that he kicks for the posts rather than kicking to the corner.  
Ireland is a more attritional side than the side Sexton plays his club rugby with (Leinster).  He serves the commands of his boss (Joe)  All players do.  Joe was saying after the game that he was satisfied his players kept to the system in the end game.... ie, kept the discipline to the priority of sturdy defending rather than trying to join the ABs in the more freeform attacking stuff.  The ABs wanted to unsettle and cause panic and errors.    Joe is a very demanding and methodical coach.  You really don't try to stamp too much of your own personal instincts on the team.

Sexton isn't fireworks but he can play a much more incisive attacking game.  Heck of a player though.  His defending often impresses me the most.  Always full on getting his sleeves rolled up in his duty there.

Interesting that you could hear Rory telling Sexton to keep his tackles down. Moments later Sexton was penalised for a high tackle. Shows you the perceptive leader Best is to those around him, and why perhaps he is still the captain ahead of guys Like Sexton and O'Mahony.

Ireland had to play out of their skins to a man to contain New Zealand from getting a tempo and rhythm going. That was one tough game! I think what Ireland show is the tremendous energy levels you have to sustain to keep the All Blacks pinned down. Ireland did that but the concentration levels they demand are sapping. A game next week? Could our guys get up for it again? That's the real test.
ABs are a bloody special team. Delighted with the win.... feel like I played every damn second!

Artful_Dodger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Well played.

But for me if you take a player out in the air is a straight Yellow, why the different rules today?

You could also make the argument that a tackle with no arms is a penalty

Look, Barnes was reluctant to give penalties towards the end, he was also obviously reluctant to yellow Kearney.  I thought he had a good game all round, things will never be perfect.  I think he wanted one of the two teams on the pitch to win it for themselves, it would have been a harsh enough yellow given that Kearney had just about left the ground when he collided with the All Black (I forgot which one).

Kearney was lucky not to see yellow, but then so was Whitelock to deliberately knock on from an off-side position, and so we're the AB s to concede four times as many penalties in the red zone and still not see yellow.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

Interesting that you could hear Rory telling Sexton to keep his tackles down.  Moments later Sexton was penalised for a high tackle.  Shows you the perceptive leader Best is to those around him, and why perhaps he is still the captain ahead of guys Like Sexton and O'Mahony.

A great Captain, for sure. Calm mind inside all the fight.

Gotta say my rugby instincts are more Sextonian though. I'd have been yearning to kick to the corner. Just my temperament.

SecretFly wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

I think an Irishman should win POTY, Im just not a big fan of Sexton in terms of a great 10. Thats my own opinion. For me hes a great decision maker and does things well, and has good consistency. At 33 hes suddenly world POTY doing basically what hes always done?

I just think the winner should stand out a bit more as an individual, Furlong clearly the best tighthead prop, and mean around the field.

For me Sextons like a poor mans Carter. Good at all aspects of 10 play, great at none. A great team man, not a stand out as an individual, a position where there arent currently many great ones around. Barrett, Sanchez, Sexton. Not a great crop at the moment.

Id give it to Furlong on that basis. Just my opinion.

Sexton though is constrained to a good degree by the system at Ireland.  Indeed, you can see his more gung ho attitude coming to the fore when Rory overrules his more aggressive instincts and commands that he kicks for the posts rather than kicking to the corner.  
Ireland is a more attritional side than the side Sexton plays his club rugby with (Leinster).  He serves the commands of his boss (Joe)  All players do.  Joe was saying after the game that he was satisfied his players kept to the system in the end game.... ie, kept the discipline to the priority of sturdy defending rather than trying to join the ABs in the more freeform attacking stuff.  The ABs wanted to unsettle and cause panic and errors.    Joe is a very demanding and methodical coach.  You really don't try to stamp too much of your own personal instincts on the team.

Sexton isn't fireworks but he can play a much more incisive attacking game.  Heck of a player though.  His defending often impresses me the most.  Always full on getting his sleeves rolled up in his duty there.

The other reason Sexton may not get it is Ireland will certainly win team of the year. No other side is close, that includes the womens, sevens etc as well, and I think team, rather than individual is more fitting.

That will probably mean Schmidt would get coach of the year, though Cheika winning it ahead of Hansen in world cup year doesnt make that a certainty.

So theyre likely to go elsewhere rather than dive Ireland a clean sweep. It could mean Karl T gets promising player and for me an of them could get player. Ireland as team is the most fitting award for Ireland this year.

The Great Aukster wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Well played.

But for me if you take a player out in the air is a straight Yellow, why the different rules today?

You could also make the argument that a tackle with no arms is a penalty

Look, Barnes was reluctant to give penalties towards the end, he was also obviously reluctant to yellow Kearney.  I thought he had a good game all round, things will never be perfect.  I think he wanted one of the two teams on the pitch to win it for themselves, it would have been a harsh enough yellow given that Kearney had just about left the ground when he collided with the All Black (I forgot which one).

Kearney was lucky not to see yellow, but then so was Whitelock to deliberately knock on from an off-side position, and so we're the AB s to concede four times as many penalties in the red zone and still not see yellow.

Thought Aki was as well. Ran straight up to the ball from the side as ABs were looking to attack having gained momentum. Was penalised but stopped the movement dead.

Don’t have any quibbles with how Barnes refereed today. Both teams largely played within the laws and no real contentious decisions. Some referees may have carded Kearney but a penalty was about right imo. Ireland creaked a little bit when their bench came on but they dug deep and got a famous win at home. Have to hand it to them.

Great result Ireland, well done lads! Makes me wonder what tman and ebop will be coming out with for the next few months?

Good win,could have gone the other way if a few offloads stuck forvNZ but to hold thwm tryless was impressive. Our pack were top class and so happy for Marmion and McGrath,they really did a great job.

Good to see the Irish showing respect to the Haka too, much unlike the English who’s team deservedly lost that game.

Only downside is Guns will be a little annoyed that limited POM didn't play well enough.

We really need a replacement for that man soon...he's holding back the team, he is.

He’s a good player that POM. Think it was Justin Marshall today that rated him the best going around.

Really pleased with that win. What a super contest. Glad we came out the right side for once1 - no disrespect to the ABs because they are the standard barer and a class act.

Despite not being a huge fan of Wayne Barnes, it did very well tonight (could be down to his disliking the Kiwis more than us Irish - I'll give him the benefit of the doubt).

Secondly, I've been often critical of Jonathan Sexton in the past, but I have to praise him for a really kind and thoughtful gesture recently. Anthony Foley's wife was on radio today mainly talking about helping kids to handle grief and the services available. She mentioned a really nice gesture from Sexton - because he was thinking a lot about Axel during the team's stay in Paris for the 6Ns/game v. France - the game where he took the drop goal that won the game v. France whic ended up being a GS for Ireland - he wrote to Olive and sent the jersey he wore for the game down to Axel's boys who were absolutely thrilled to get it. What a really nice gesture 2 years later.

mikey_dragon wrote:Great result Ireland, well done lads! Makes me wonder what tman and ebop will be coming out with for the next few months?

In terms of what? Theres no more rugby for the ne t few months so very little at all I’d say.

The rest of our tour are not interesting, cant even recall who we have left, so its all about how Hansens going to work on giving individuals more space to do their stuff because weve got little today. No point having players picked for attacking if your gameplan is such that the opposition strangle it all match.

Hansen will have Schmidt being next AB coach thrown at him all summer so has a personal challenge to take on. With supposedly better players individually, he let a team with a great plan walk all over him.

So theres good to come from this defeat, as there was when Ireland nearly beat us in 13, an unbeaten run the next year.

So its all about taking the hit, taking a break, regrouping and lining up for next Septembers tournament.

Sin é wrote:Really pleased with that win. What a super contest. Glad we came out the right side for once1 - no disrespect to the ABs because they are the standard barer and a class act.

Despite not being a huge fan of Wayne Barnes, it did very well tonight (could be down to his disliking the Kiwis more than us Irish - I'll give him the benefit of the doubt).

Secondly, I've been often critical of Jonathan Sexton in the past, but I have to praise him for a really kind and thoughtful gesture recently. Anthony Foley's wife was on radio today mainly talking about helping kids to handle grief and the services available. She mentioned a really nice gesture from Sexton - because he was thinking a lot about Axel during the team's stay in Paris for the 6Ns/game v. France - the game where he took the drop goal that won the game v. France whic ended up being a GS for Ireland - he wrote to Olive and sent the jersey he wore for the game down to Axel's boys who were absolutely thrilled to get it. What a really nice gesture 2 years later.

That was one seismic test match.  Two teams slugging the hell out of each other for 80 minutes.  Almost became stalemate in a sense.  Both sides did their attacking stints, both sides did some ruthless defensive work.  No quarter given or asked for.  A few points (and a young player having the balls to repeat an earlier mistake!) on the board dictated the final winner.

A game of equals looking for a slim edge - from the first minute to the last.  Who would'a thought we're talking about Ireland and the All Blacks.  Two top sides in the Woylde!

It's gotta be fake news, innit?

USA will put 40 on us now and it will be

The Great Aukster wrote:

Artful_Dodger wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Well played.

But for me if you take a player out in the air is a straight Yellow, why the different rules today?

You could also make the argument that a tackle with no arms is a penalty

Look, Barnes was reluctant to give penalties towards the end, he was also obviously reluctant to yellow Kearney.  I thought he had a good game all round, things will never be perfect.  I think he wanted one of the two teams on the pitch to win it for themselves, it would have been a harsh enough yellow given that Kearney had just about left the ground when he collided with the All Black (I forgot which one).

Kearney was lucky not to see yellow, but then so was Whitelock to deliberately knock on from an off-side position, and so we're the AB s to concede four times as many penalties in the red zone and still not see yellow.

Kearney’s challenge had to have been a card, ref’s aren’t in line with the protocol. If you need more evidence then look at incidents in Wales vs Aus and Wales vs Tonga. I think Kearney stayed down as he knew that way Barnes would wave it on, but that’s not the only time he did well in today’s match, MOTM for me.

Good seeing the Little Samoan acknowledgent for Aki after the match. Good to see.

Great test match well done Ireland. Good tactics, well executed. Total commitment and discipline. Well deserved.

So much depends on who the ref is in this years AIs, it’s like watching a different game to what we are use to in Prem and EC.

Well done Ireland, 2 out of 3 now, not many sides can say that about beating the ABs

Absolutely fantastic win.
Finally getting it in Dublin.
Amazing stuff.
Also to keep the all blacks from scoring a try. Brilliant.

Roll on the 6 nations. Hopefully keep the form up.

Does that win now mean that Ireland have won their most recent match against all other sides?

Last loss as was the first test against Australia back in june

carpet baboon wrote:Last loss as was the first test against Australia back in june

But of course Ireland won the next two.

I cannot think of anyone who beat Ireland the last time they played.

LondonTiger wrote:Does that win now mean that Ireland have won their most recent match against all other sides?

I believe it does, yes, with the possible exception of the Barbarians.

For USA:

1 - McGrath
2 - Cronin
3 - Porter
4 - Beirne
5 - Henderson
6 - Ruddock
7 - Leavy if fit, if not Murphy
8 - Conan
9 - Murray if fit, if not Cooney
10 - Carbery
11 - Sweetnam
12 - Henshaw if fit, if not McCloskey
13 - Addison
14 - Conway
15 - Larmour

Peaked too soon

TightHEAD wrote:Peaked too soon

Which players?

Murray wasn't there.
Henshaw wasn't there.
Leavy wasn't there.
Larmour is still only a rookie runt - learning all the time
O'Brien wasn't there
Henderson if anything is looking undercooked just now. Room and time to improve again.
Conan wasn't there.
Conway wasn't there.


I hope we lose a few games early next year (to take the inevitable heat off) but this extended squad is good enough to keep punching hard right to the WC.  We were actually more slick at the beginning of 2018 so I think Ireland are fine tuning right now.... MUCHO to work on, even after yesterday.

1014 guys reviewed the match

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Well done Ireland, 2 out of 3 now, not many sides can say that about beating the ABs

Let’s not get into the stats, as it’s 2 out of 31 with 1 draw. Slightly less impressive.

Wish we (Wales) had the All Blacks this year, as dont think they’re as strong as they’ve been in the past. They’re still the best in the world, just on a dip in form at the moment.

Let’s not forget, the Boks have beaten them, and a bad England side ran them close. They’re not the side the where. May be Hansen has been there too long now and they’re staring to look stale. But I have no doubt, they’ll be back on form before the RWC.

Still doesn’t take away a good win for Ireland.. well done.

No9 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Well done Ireland, 2 out of 3 now, not many sides can say that about beating the ABs

Let’s not get into the stats, as it’s 2 out of 31 with 1 draw. Slightly less impressive.

Wish we (Wales) had the All Blacks this year, as dont think they’re as strong as they’ve been in the past. They’re still the best in the world, just on a dip in form at the moment.

Let’s not forget, the Boks have beaten them, and a bad England side ran them close. They’re not the side the where. May be Hansen has been there too long now and they’re staring to look stale. But I have no doubt, they’ll be back on form before the RWC.

Still doesn’t take away a good win for Ireland.. well done.

You sure?

More seriously, on to your broader points, No 9.

It's not just the ABs who are having a bit of a dip though.  Ireland itself isn't as smooth and methodical as they might be and were missing a few really central figures for that game - one of them being a man that a few weeks or months ago people would be saying we couldn't hope to win against the ABs without (Murray).  Yet a scrum half from Ireland's weakest Provincial side took over and did his bit.

But back to the point.  Would the Ireland side that turned up for the Argentine game have beaten that ABs side?  No, is my opinion.  They were prepping for the big game.  ABs against England were also prepping for the Big Game.... minds were on that Number 1/Number2 contest.

So the games before that game last night.... just games to get through.  Both sides put their hardest AI season performances into last night.  It was ferocious stuff and the ferocity meant that it became a fist fight in the middle for most of the game.  A real Heavy Weight fight between the top two sides.  No semantics will deaden the significance of the game or the quality of play out there on the night.

More likely england just played better than new zealand secret.

Hmmm.... okay, 7, England and Wales are better than Ireland and New Zealand right now. QED

England. Yes. Wales, you must be still drinking

Well England will have to wait until February and the 6N to prove it.  

Wales, on the other hand, did the magician try scoring stuff on Tonga so.................... gotta be them, right?  After all, it's the rugby games where eye-watering, candy-coated tries get scored that are the real benchmark of excellence these days.

Ha.

No9 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Well done Ireland, 2 out of 3 now, not many sides can say that about beating the ABs

Let’s not get into the stats, as it’s 2 out of 31 with 1 draw. Slightly less impressive.

Wish we (Wales) had the All Blacks this year, as dont think they’re as strong as they’ve been in the past. They’re still the best in the world, just on a dip in form at the moment.

Let’s not forget, the Boks have beaten them, and a bad England side ran them close. They’re not the side the where. May be Hansen has been there too long now and they’re staring to look stale. But I have no doubt, they’ll be back on form before the RWC.

Still doesn’t take away a good win for Ireland.. well done.

Could you not just enjoy your side's win, rather than just go onto every other thread to troll other people?

Ignore the begrudgers - a famous win and a game won because you played well and not because the enemy played poorly. I've been watching rugby for 40 years and I haven't seen a NH side challenge like this for at least 15 years. Enjoy the victory, me paddy brethren.

George Carlin wrote:Ignore the begrudgers - a famous win and a game won because you played well and not because the enemy played poorly. I've been watching rugby for 40 years and I haven't seen a NH side challenge like this for at least 15 years. Enjoy the victory, me paddy brethren.

Gotta same the same.
What's not to love?

Was a great match, as was Englands in 2012. Quite surreal the reaction around when the ABs lose, even though they drop a match or two every year.

In context its great for Ireland, and it does indicate Ireland are going to be a potential no.1 ‘stayer’ and since the rankings started in 2003, theres never been one. England had one year, SA had one in 09, both fell off with a crash as players left or the climate changed. To consolidate their position Ireland need to start finding ways of scoring tries more easily. You cant grind the higher ranked sides week after week. Itll mean injuries and tiredness, espe ially as every test Ireland play from here...theyll be targeted...welcome to our world Ireland...well done.

For the ABs, no ones going to be clear favourites over them soon, but they have certainly dropped off in the last year with several close matches and a couple of losses.

Talk of Read being dropped here dont think that will happen. Just needs a full break for three to five months.

An exciting year ahead.

So now Ireland have just beaten Argentina and NZ are you finally going to shut up about that game?

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Peaked too soon

Which players?

Murray wasn't there.
Henshaw wasn't there.
Leavy wasn't there.
Larmour is still only a rookie runt - learning all the time
O'Brien wasn't there
Henderson if anything is looking undercooked just now.  Room and time to improve again.
Conan wasn't there.
Conway wasn't there.


I hope we lose a few games early next year (to take the inevitable heat off) but this extended squad is good enough to keep punching hard right to the WC.  We were actually more slick at the beginning of 2018 so I think Ireland are fine tuning right now.... MUCHO to work on, even after yesterday.

seriously just ignore this guy he's a blatant troll

No 7&1/2 wrote:England. Yes. Wales, you must be still drinking

A good win for Ireland and one of the notorious ones from the Fifth Places Finishers Fan Club has nothing better to do than try and pee all over it, as well as continue with his Wales obsession. The ‘TOP 3 TEAMS’ are ranked that way through winning most of their games. England haven’t done that, they’re busy struggling against Japan and relying on ref decisions to win games (SA).

mikey_dragon wrote:So now Ireland have just beaten Argentina and NZ are you finally going to shut up about that game?

What game dragon?

Pie wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:Peaked too soon

Which players?

Murray wasn't there.
Henshaw wasn't there.
Leavy wasn't there.
Larmour is still only a rookie runt - learning all the time
O'Brien wasn't there
Henderson if anything is looking undercooked just now.  Room and time to improve again.
Conan wasn't there.
Conway wasn't there.


I hope we lose a few games early next year (to take the inevitable heat off) but this extended squad is good enough to keep punching hard right to the WC.  We were actually more slick at the beginning of 2018 so I think Ireland are fine tuning right now.... MUCHO to work on, even after yesterday.

seriously just ignore this guy he's a blatant troll

Yeah it’s alwyas him, 7.5, BamBam and now LondonTiger it seems. Mods happy for it continue of course as the majority of their angst is for Wales.

Seems everyone at the top gets the ‘peaked too soon ‘ tag.

‘Better than never peaking at all’

What have I done exactly mikey that constitutes your favourite pass time of trolling?

LondonTiger wrote:

No9 wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Well done Ireland, 2 out of 3 now, not many sides can say that about beating the ABs

Let’s not get into the stats, as it’s 2 out of 31 with 1 draw. Slightly less impressive.

Wish we (Wales) had the All Blacks this year, as dont think they’re as strong as they’ve been in the past. They’re still the best in the world, just on a dip in form at the moment.

Let’s not forget, the Boks have beaten them, and a bad England side ran them close. They’re not the side the where. May be Hansen has been there too long now and they’re staring to look stale. But I have no doubt, they’ll be back on form before the RWC.

Still doesn’t take away a good win for Ireland.. well done.

Could you not just enjoy your side's win, rather than just go onto every other thread to troll other people?

This coming from the guy revelling in the cheap off the ball shot on Halfpenny, and creating a Wum thread about bigger dads....

No 7&1/2 wrote:What have I done exactly mikey that constitutes your favourite pass time of trolling?

Secretfly already alluded to it more than once, so at this point you must be pretending to be stupid. #delusional