European cup matches with no thread - Round 2

by stub Sat 20 Oct - 13:15

First topic message reminder :

Watching Munster v Glos and really hoping England don’t lose another number 8!

by Pete330v2 Mon 22 Oct - 10:15

"Good teams look to push boundaries and when officials don't pull them for it they keep doing it."

Fixed that there for you Marty Wink

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 10:30

Pete330v2 wrote:"Good teams look to push boundaries and when officials don't pull them for it they keep doing it."

Fixed that there for you Marty

That's where Ulster are going wrong then Pete Sad

by eirebilly Mon 22 Oct - 13:45

formerly known as Sam wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:what is Cips supposed to? To be honest this type of situation has been coming for a while now in rugby. At least now World rugby will be forced to act, this can't continue

Cips should have attempted to dip into the contact. Standing up and dropping a shoulder in as the supporting player was lazy and as soon as he made contact with the head he was in trouble. It's good for him to because his tackle technique was awful and resulted in him taking a clout to the head as well.

Twelvetrees perhaps lucky the ref missed his tackle though the player was ducking at the time which he clearly wasn't anticipating. Will Spencer will tell him that can't be used as an excuse.

I can see, by the letter of the law, that it was a red card but it really does not sit well with me. There really was nothing wrong with what Cips did in my mind. As a Munster fan, I really felt that they got a massive rub of the green with the rulings on Saturday. The first YC, did not even look like a penalty to me let alone a card, was not too happy with the onfield theatrics in trying to influence the official either.

A win is a win but there were some things that left a bad taste in my mouth.

by eirebilly Mon 22 Oct - 13:52

As for the Leinster game yesterday, I am sure a lot will be made of Leinster loosing to Toulouse but Toulouse at home is a very difficult team to beat and in fairness, I thought Leinster were uncharacteristically poor with their handing and their game management. That is something that Leinster has always been renowned for.

For me, Leinster are still very much the best team in Europe and favourites to win the comp.

by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Oct - 14:24

marty2086 wrote:The charge down, from the angles I saw didn't touch the head it actually looked like Conway tried to avoid the head which would indicate it was deliberate

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by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 14:49

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The charge down, from the angles I saw didn't touch the head it actually looked like Conway tried to avoid the head which would indicate it was deliberate

And show where contact is made with the head there?

by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Oct - 15:01

marty2086 wrote:

And show where contact is made with the head there?

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by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Oct - 15:02

Er. The arm the face.

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 15:06

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:

And show where contact is made with the head there?

That one actually clearly shows he misses his head Rolling Eyes

by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Oct - 15:07

No still shows the arm in the face.

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 15:07

No 7&1/2 wrote:Er. The arm the face.

Except it doesn't touch his face, in some angles it looks like he could might graze the side of the head but the second gif shows he misses the head and hit the shoulder

Funny those claiming other wise but what more do you expect from RF

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 15:08

No 7&1/2 wrote:No still shows the arm in the face.

I'd wonder what your face looks like then if your shoulder is part of it

by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Oct - 15:13

Clearly makes contact marty. Not sure why you can't see it. Don't think it's a red as stated above but definitely makes contact.

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 15:39

No 7&1/2 wrote:Clearly makes contact marty. Not sure why you can't see it. Don't think it's a red as stated above but definitely makes contact.

Where's that clear contact with the face then?

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by **LondonTiger** Mon 22 Oct - 15:47

I see no contact with the face, but enough with head and neck to justify a citing.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Oct - 15:49

Left arm. Clear as day.

by **LondonTiger** Mon 22 Oct - 15:54

Sorry 7.5. While Marty seems to be rather pedantic and disingenuous today, I view that as contact with the side of the head not the face. Of course it is irrelevant as the laws talk about the head.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Oct - 15:56

Yes to the second. I'm being pedantic too (for a change) the side of your head is still about 50.per cent face!

by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Oct - 16:03

Some crazies on this site. You made me do a higher frame rate gif:

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by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 16:06

LondonTiger wrote:Sorry 7.5. While Marty seems to be rather pedantic and disingenuous today, I view that as contact with the side of the head not the face. Of course it is irrelevant as the laws talk about the head.

LT maybe you should read what I originally wrote

The charge down, from the angles I saw didn't touch the head it actually looked like Conway tried to avoid the head which would indicate it was deliberate

It was RF who posted GIFs that didn't show contact to the head, the second to me shows him missing the head though not by much

It should have been a penalty, those claiming it was worse than it was are trying to play into some sort of double standard conspiracy

by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 16:06

RugbyFan100 wrote:Some crazies on this site. You made me do a higher frame rate gif:

Feel free to show the frame where he makes contact with the head

by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Oct - 16:10

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Some crazies on this site. You made me do a higher frame rate gif:

Feel free to show the frame where he makes contact with the head

Stop talking.

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by marty2086 Mon 22 Oct - 16:15

RugbyFan100 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Some crazies on this site. You made me do a higher frame rate gif:

Feel free to show the frame where he makes contact with the head

Stop talking.

His elbow is buried in his head then? Or is it that Steensons head is in front of Conways elbow? Rolling Eyes

That would be right before this frame Very Happy

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by Geen sport voor watjes Tue 23 Oct - 0:04

Am used to the welsh poor mouthing about life the universe and everything but having the English do it is a new phenomenon. Must be to do with their new perceived standing in the world

by Cyril Tue 23 Oct - 1:17

Duplicate post.

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 Oct - 7:38

Aw man GF....that's rather funny!

Not a classic game at Kingston Park (bar pehaps the first 10mins), but we got there eventually. I thought the ref was generally ok, but they missed a lot of going off feet/off side from the French which seemed to hinder our attacking play.

I was watching it about 10mins behind and stupidly checked the final score at about 79mins when we were stuck in our own half, kind of spoiled the end a bit. Either way, it was nice to see us not panic and keep control of the ball...luckily too as we never had a penalty to go back to (despite the touch calling offside and the ref saying it was ok!).

I'm thinking 2 more home wins against Edinburgh and Toulon and a LBP or 2 might see us through, crazy. Edinburgh will be a very tough opposition though, they look very good and we never play well against them in pre-season.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 23 Oct - 7:43

marty2086 wrote:
It should have been a penalty, those claiming it was worse than it was are trying to play into some sort of double standard conspiracy

Not sure what conspiracy I am playing into. Looking at those clips I see clear contact with the head. Citing officer either did not look at it, or disagreed with me.

I guess this is an incident where we all see what we see, and cannot believe anyone can see differently.

by marty2086 Tue 23 Oct - 9:06

LondonTiger wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
It should have been a penalty, those claiming it was worse than it was are trying to play into some sort of double standard conspiracy

Not sure what conspiracy I am playing into. Looking at those clips I see clear contact with the head. Citing officer either did not look at it, or disagreed with me.

I guess this is an incident where we all see what we see, and cannot believe anyone can see differently.

Or maybe the citing officer is right and you're wrong?

So I've posted multiple pictures showing no contact with the head and still you think there's clear contact? Maybe you're just seeing what you want to see

by Pete330v2 Tue 23 Oct - 9:33

I've only just seen this and according to those GIFs there clearly an impact on Steenson's shoulder but there definitely isn't any impact with the head. I'm seeing this from an objective point of view and I simply can't see anything different from those GIFs.

Perhaps I am as blind as the citing officers?

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Oct - 9:51

Must be.

by marty2086 Tue 23 Oct - 9:52

No 7&1/2 wrote:Must be.

Didn't you say he made clear contact with the face? Whistle

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Oct - 10:08

Yup. You can see from the vids.

by Pete330v2 Tue 23 Oct - 10:46

Contact and Impact are 2 very different things.

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Oct - 11:12

Apologies then pete as I think we agree.

by marty2086 Tue 23 Oct - 11:12

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup. You can see from the vids.

Feel free to share a frame showing that

by Sgt_Pooly Tue 23 Oct - 11:21

Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

by No 7&1/2 Tue 23 Oct - 11:27

Phil did above marty....and damn you for making me side with him.

by marty2086 Tue 23 Oct - 11:40

No 7&1/2 wrote:Phil did above marty....and damn you for making me side with him.

I will not comment either way on the first part of your comment before either one of them, Wink

, gets upset and touts

Actually RF posted a frame of Conways arm behind the head Rolling Eyes

by Geen sport voor watjes Tue 23 Oct - 23:08

The best thing about it was Steenson lying pokeaxed on the ground after the incident and making a most amazing recovery about 2 seconds after the ref said stop acting. Also the other gif from Santa’s little helper Austin is complete rubbish.

It’s amazing that no one is mentioning the outright foul play perpetuated by Gloucester for the first 30 mins. Am surprised twelvehedges didn’t get cited given his assault on Carbery.

by Heaf Wed 24 Oct - 0:18

Whilst Conway's arm as he comes down is over Steenson's shoulder his direction of travel as you look at the GIF is from right to left (ie he's falling backwards) so his elbow makes contact with the side of Steenson's head. There's a still image here that shows it ...

https://twitter.com/patmccarry/status/1051126117451599872

by Heaf Wed 24 Oct - 0:19

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

Nope

by lostinwales Wed 24 Oct - 8:06

Heaf wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

Nope

I am sure Conway was just concerned that Steenson was going to hurt himself in the follow through and was just leaping in to protect him.

by Guest Wed 24 Oct - 9:13

Another late one to the party here:

Did he get anything for that? A card? A penalty? I'd give a yellow for that.

by marty2086 Wed 24 Oct - 9:41

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

by Heaf Wed 24 Oct - 9:42

The Oracle wrote:Another late one to the part here:

Did he get anything for that? A card? A penalty? I'd give a yellow for that.

Nope

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 24 Oct - 10:30

marty2086 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

When somebody posts an opinion, why is it instantly assumed (by some posters) that they are anti Irish/Welsh/Scottish/English, it's pathetic.

If that was an Exeter player doing it to a Munster player, I (and I guess most of us) would have the exact same opinion. Just because it's an English team makes no difference. What's going on with this board lately???

by marty2086 Wed 24 Oct - 10:44

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Late joiner to the party, I'm a bit confused. He hits him in the head with his elbow....is there something I'm missing here?

When somebody posts an opinion, why is it instantly assumed (by some posters) that they are anti Irish/Welsh/Scottish/English, it's pathetic.

If that was an Exeter player doing it to a Munster player, I (and I guess most of us) would have the exact same opinion. Just because it's an English team makes no difference. What's going on with this board lately???

WTF are you talking about? Who mentioned anything about anti anything?

by formerly known as Sam Wed 24 Oct - 10:46

The major frustration with these new interpretations is the vast inconsistencies. Conway on Steenson, little bit of arm in face but generally jumping into the kicker as a bit of a cheap shot. This game nothing, potentially next week there's a red or yellow card.

Same game one of the Munster props is pulled up for a swinging arm tackle that connects around the neck, penalty. Next game Vs Gloucester a near identical tackle is a yellow card.

Cipriani walks for contact with the head with a shoulder but similar tackle outcome sees Stander avoid a red.

Twelvetrees catches Carberry as he ducks, force and direct contact with the head. No red card. Will Spencer of Tigers got a straight red and banned when a player dropped suddenly in front of his attempted tackle.

No one minds World Rugby tightening these laws up but they are so inconsistently applied it is becoming a farce.

by Sgt_Pooly Wed 24 Oct - 10:51

I don't think the ref's quite know what to do and the TMO's seem even more lost. Some of these high tackles getting pulled are nothing....you'll probably see 20/30 a game go unpunished.

I agree it's a bit of a shambles really.

by formerly known as Sam Wed 24 Oct - 11:18

I do wonder whether most TMOs just think that they'll be seen to be doing their bit if they bring up a couple of instances each game. Let the rest go.

Refs are in a tough position where they need to enforce these rules but also under pressure to ensure that the game is a contest for the fans. Very difficult.

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