Glasgow and Edinburgh 21st Century Banter

by **BigGee** Tue 23 Oct 2018, 9:05 am

First topic message reminder :

Something is going on this year

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing quite well!

Is it a dream, am I imagining it, am I going to wake up in a cold sweat and find out that we are really cr*p again?

Someone please reassure me!!

by EWT Spoons Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:05 pm

Great bit of business, he must have had other offers.

by **RDW** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:13 pm

Huge signing! There definitely would have been French clubs circling - sounds like his family is pretty settled in Edinburgh, and he'll no doubt be on big money now.

by **RDW** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:13 pm

And in true Edinburgh media team style the link doesn't work!

by Hazel Sapling Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:18 pm

Hopefully the Mata family stays in the long term and he has a few sons along with the Grays and Fagersons. It is only a 1 year extension as the previous one ended in 2020 vs 2021 in this one.

I suspect the negotiation was "We don't want to let you go and will demand a large transfer fee that will reduce the pay offer from France. We will bump your pay for next season that you will be here for anyway and you give us another season after in exchange. Protects you from injury or loss of form and if you are really good, we get a good deal. After that, we will see where we stand."

He turns 30 shortly after this contract expires so he can go and find a big money three-year deal from France.

by **George Carlin** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:38 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Great bit of business, he must have had other offers.

All sledging aside, the strongest selling point for staying at Edinburgh must be that the city is actually a nice place to live.

Sale anyone? Exactly.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 26 Feb 2019, 12:41 pm

Thats the news I needed to hear to help me finally get over Saturday's results! He's the type of player that teams know exactly what he's going to bring, but they still struggle to stop him doing it. Delighted with this!

by funnyExiledScot Tue 26 Feb 2019, 1:43 pm

Massive and wonderful news. He's a top class player. Now we just need Duhan to sign a 10 year contract...

by **BigGee** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 1:54 pm

Edinburgh have spun it a bit. It is a one year extension, not a 2 year deal.

Still a good bit of business though!

by **BigGee** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 2:18 pm

No more game time for Charlie Sheil for Edinburgh after his 5 mins last weekend, He is off to play sevens with Scotland for the next two rounds in North America.

I still can't see why Cockers is not getting him involved more but I guess he must have his reasons. Certainly a spell playing sevens did not do George Horne or Darcy Graham any harm, so maybe it will go the same way for him.

Apparently Robbie Fergusson had been training with Glasgow, but has now been released to go back to the sevens squad. You could easily see him coming back into the Glasgow squad during the WC period next year, when both sides are likely to be severely depleted.

by bsando Tue 26 Feb 2019, 2:30 pm

Great news form Edinburgh! So glad he’s staying on next season.

by tigertattie Tue 26 Feb 2019, 4:41 pm

Actually a wise bit of business from Edinburgh and perhaps a bit naive of Bill or his agent as I'm pretty sure that during the summer there would have been more interest from the French clubs. The fact that he had another year to go probably kept most a bay and this extension is Edinburgh sneakily getting in early and getting the big man's signature before folk came knocking.

The good thing is that Edinburgh has a great selling point in that it really is a great place to live. A lot of these guys have families to think about and I'm pretty sure this has a massive impact on being able to keep guys at the club.

What we need now is a good 9 to come along. There's been talk of the Ginger Kiwi going to join Rennie at Glasgow, do you think this would mean that Glasgow finally send Price along the M8? I'm not sure Horne Jnr (who I think has the far brighter future at 9) would want to leave Glasgow and his brother.

Surely with the windfall from the Euro comp for both teams this year, the SRU should be looking to do some player investment?

fingers crossed eh

by tigertattie Tue 26 Feb 2019, 4:43 pm

Eejit wrote:There’s a guy on reddit who has created what he’s called a super six nations table which combines mens, women’s and u20s results into the one table. Needless to say we’re dead last by a comfortable margin. Not a particularly good look for the SRU.

The U20s is certainly a worry as that’s where the future players come from. The woman’s side though, sorry and please feel free to label me a misogynistic dinosaur, but nahhhhh, really not interested in the ladies game

by **BigGee** Tue 26 Feb 2019, 5:07 pm

We always tend to struggle in the 6N u20s, our boys just don't get the same exposure to top class rugby as some of the other countries. Often they are a bit more up to speed by the junior WC and we often put on a better showing there.

By all accounts though, we put in a much better showing against the French last weekend, who are very strong at this level and are the reigning junior world champs.

by Eejit Tue 26 Feb 2019, 10:03 pm

Good to see Kyle Steyn staying with Glasgow. He looks like a find and its only a matter of time before he grabs a meat pie.

by tigertattie Wed 27 Feb 2019, 11:55 am

Interesting bit of news Smile

https://theoffsideline.com/steve-lawrie-coach-edinburgh/

Steven Lawrie to Edinburgh confirmed with Scott Lawson (the hooker, not the scrum half) favourite to got to Watson's Supr 6 team

by EWT Spoons Wed 27 Feb 2019, 12:10 pm

I could have sworn this was announced ages ago. Maybe it was just rumours at that time

by tigertattie Wed 27 Feb 2019, 12:51 pm

Must have been rumours as Edinburgh have only confirmed it today.

Either way, it's good to see a Scottish coach progressing up the ranks and then another Scottish Coach coming into to the club to fill the empty space.

Now all we need is for the sme progression from our refs. Maybe a topic for a seperate thread, but I really feel we don't get the rub of the refs in most games as we're not adjusting our play to how the refs are viewing things. England get to work with Barnes, Wales get to work with Owens, we get left to stand and wonder what we can do!

by nickj Wed 27 Feb 2019, 2:37 pm

Did anyone spot the Times' piece on Mata's extension that mentioned Kalione Nasoko (Fiji 7's captain) and Mesulame Kunavula (Fiji 7's / no 8) are heading to Glasgow on trial in November? Not sure what position Nasoko plays, but Kunavula looks like a big fella with a cracking pair of hands https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi_eloLLAAI

by **BigGee** Wed 27 Feb 2019, 3:51 pm

A couple of new Fijian sevens players into the Glasgow set up, what's not to like!

by **BigGee** Wed 27 Feb 2019, 3:55 pm

In other news, some chat on the rugby blos and on the BBC about the potential for Georgian Team (s) to join the Pro 14 in the not so distant future.

Georgia is an up and coming rugby nation with lots of potential and can pull in massive crowds when they get a genuine international game there, as Scotland will likely find out this summer when we visit. Teams from there certainly have the potential to be competitive.

Pro 14 would probably be an obvious fit for them and the current conference structure could cope with a couple more teams easily enough.

This is certainly an interesting one to watch.

by Eejit Wed 27 Feb 2019, 4:23 pm

There is a significant difference in quality between Italy and Georgia and them having a team in Pro14 might be the platform required to help get them up to the next level. Might even be a spot open if the Welsh do end up going down to three regions!

Hell of a trip for an away day though, eh.

by **RDW** Wed 27 Feb 2019, 4:49 pm

Surely we would need another team to join as well to even up the conferences, or as Eejit say one team drops out.

South Africa to Georgia - a nice easy journey...

It's not much better from the Uk/Ireland - 6 hour flight!

by EWT Spoons Wed 27 Feb 2019, 5:15 pm

RDW wrote:Surely we would need another team to join as well to even up the conferences, or as Eejit say one team drops out.

South Africa to Georgia - a nice easy journey...

It's not much better from the Uk/Ireland - 6 hour flight!

I wonder if this is anyway related to 'project reset' which the Welsh regions are looking at currently. I believe there is a chance they might lose a region, so maybe it needs to be back filled and a Georgian team could step up.

by Eejit Wed 27 Feb 2019, 5:54 pm

Gosh, wish I had thought about that two posts up!

by **BigGee** Wed 27 Feb 2019, 6:56 pm

There could potentially be more than one team from Georgia. If they are planning on using it to build up their international playing base, they will struggle to do that with just one team. Two seems to be the basic minimum for that.

by **RDW** Wed 27 Feb 2019, 7:01 pm

BigGee wrote:There could potentially be more than one team from Georgia. If they are planning on using it to build up their international playing base, they will struggle to do that with just one team. Two seems to be the basic minimum for that.

I hope not - as has been said elsewhere people tend to underestimate how high a standard the Pro 14 is. Georgia could set up a team with all their internationals and would still end up being whipping boys for the first few seasons. Also, good luck persuading all the high earning Top 14 players to come back for much less money in a brand new Georgian team!

They can't stretch themselves too thin with two teams.

by Brendan Wed 27 Feb 2019, 8:38 pm

I think the Pro14 and ENC should get together and petition World Rugby to fund professional squads for the B6N.

At €30k per player for the squad they wouldn't cost a massive amount. Players able to earn more could go to one of the European Professional leagues. Other than Germany and Belgium it would be a good living wage.

If you take it those Nations already play 5 games in the spring, 3 in the summer and 3 in the Autumn giving you 11 games with Travel the unions are already funding. They can play each other 5 more times bring it up to 16 games.

Have some cup with the top two teams, winner of the Super 6, top two of the Celtic Cup and you would know then when they were ready for the Pro14. You probably could add in the top two of NRL (US & Canada) and an Italian team. World Rugby can afford it and helps the Pro14 and the semi pro level.

by EWT Spoons Thu 28 Feb 2019, 8:45 am

Eejit wrote:Gosh, wish I had thought about that two posts up!

HA!, sorry mate, totally missed that. You make a good point though Very Happy

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 8:49 am

Cockers being helpfully open about the injury situation, and there's some positive new. Nel and Watson should be back this weekend, Matt Scott is back in full training and should hopefully be fit for Leinster straight after the 6N, and John Barclay has upped his training and has a chance of being fit for that game too.

By the sounds of it Edinbrugh should pretty muich have a fully fit squad for the Munster game (future 6N injuries aside), although a few players will be short of match fitness.

by EWT Spoons Thu 28 Feb 2019, 8:53 am

some good news on contracts as well, I assume it's this article you are referencing RDW:

offside line wrote:EDINBURGH will take a big step closer to completing their squad for next season with the re-signing of five more players over the coming two or three weeks. The club, who were given a significant boost on Tuesday with the news that Bill Mata has agreed a contract extension, are now on the verge of agreeing terms with Hamish Watson, Henry Pyrgos, Simon Berghan, David Cherry and Pietro Ceccarelli.

In another significant fillip to morale as the business end of the season approaches, Watson could return from injury this weekend for the vital PRO14 game at Benetton. Willem Nel also has a good chance of playing for the first time since being injured against Italy, and if the two forwards do come through the Treviso trip, they could figure in the Scotland squad for the Six Nations match against Wales on Saturday week.

Richard Cockerill plans some new signings too between now and the start of next season, but, if concluded successfully, the current wave of negotiations will complete the internal work of squad renewal. “All the lads we want to keep are all in process to stay, as simple as that,” the head coach said. “We’re a long way down the road of getting those guys sorted for the future.”

Watson’s current contract extension, signed in January 2017, is due to run out at the end of this season. Berghan agreed a two-year deal in May 2017, while Pyrgos, Cherry and Ceccarelli all signed on for a year when they joined from Glasgow Warriors, Nice and Oyonnax, respectively, last summer.

Openside Watson and scrum-half Pyrgos are the only two of the quintet who would be first choices in their positions when the whole squad is available, but Berghan is invaluable back-up at tighthead prop for Nel. And Ceccarelli, also a tighthead, and Cherry, a hooker, have both proven to be useful members of a squad which has been sorely depleted in recent weeks by injury and international demands.

Easing injury list
That pressure will ease this week if Nel and Watson are passed fit, while Ben Toolis may be released from the Scotland squad. With Mark Bennett having returned from five months out last week, and Matt Scott and John Barclay now well down the road to recovery from their long-term injuries, the reinforcements are arriving at just the right time for Cockerill.

“At the moment I’m hoping that Ben Toolis will have some time – though his game time may be limited, because he’ll go back to the [Scotland] squad on Monday,” he said. “I’m hoping WP Nel will have some time and be available for Scotland the week after. There’s a good chance Hamish Watson will be the same.

“Matt Scott is training fully, and we’re hoping he’ll be back for Leinster,” the coach continued, referring to the home PRO14 fixture on 22 March. “John Barclay is starting to train into units and teams, so he’s starting to make really good progress. He may well look to come back for Leinster as well.

“It’s good to have Mark Bennett back as well. We’re starting to get bodies on deck. When you’re starting to get a Test 12 and a Test 13 back training, things start to click a lot easier. Just having Barclay back in training, you can see the class he has as a player – because of his experience he knows what to do, and you don’t lose those parts.”

Dougie Fife should also be fit to play against Benetton after being taken off against Cardiff last Saturday with a head knock, although Duhan van der Merwe, who took a cut to a knee during that game, seems certain to miss out. With Leinster, Scarlets, Ulster and Glasgow still to come in the league after Benetton, Edinburgh have a very demanding run-in as they try to reach the play-offs – besides which, they have the small matter of a Champions Cup quarter-final at home to Munster to take into account.

“We go Leinster, Scarlets, Ulster, then Glasgow, so that’s a pretty tough run, but we’ve got to win them,” Cockerill added. “We’ve got to win the majority of those – you’ve probably got to win four of those.

“So therein lies the challenge – and we’ve got a huge quarter-final in the middle of that. That’s going to be a real test for our squad, but we’ve put ourselves in this position with some disappointing results.

“We’ve got to keep re-modelling this squad, get more depth, balance it out through the international period – and we’ve got to get better. The result at the weekend wasn’t acceptable: after being 17 points up with 28 minutes to go, you can’t lose that game. It’s simply not good enough.

“We need to be better, because we’ve lost games which we shouldn’t lose, which makes the end of season very, very hard for us. This group has been together for 21 months, and we’ve got to improve: parts of this season has been very good, but other parts haven’t been good enough.

“We’ve got to get better and win those ugly games, because the Kings game [an away defeat] and the Cardiff game – those six points would put us second at the moment. Now we have to go to Italy and get a result.”

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 8:55 am

I was reading the Scotsman article which had much less detail than that one!

by **BigGee** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 9:26 am

The offside line is pretty much always the best info these days. As you say, other news outlets use the same story but condense it and they all pretty much carry the same news.

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 9:27 am

They must have good links with players and coaches - there's no way they should know the things they do before it is formally announced.

by jimbopip Thu 28 Feb 2019, 9:36 am

The Luvvies run in looks pretty tough. If they lose this weekend and then at the Ladyboys then I think a home semi is a pipedream. Mind you, the fact that they are playing three of the teams competing for second and third spots means that there could be ten-point swings in three of those matches. Let's hope that by the time you get to The Home Of The Once And Future Champions we can help you by playing the development squad second stringers.

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 9:39 am

If we lost to Treviso and Leinster it's probably fair to say out Champions Cup ambitions are an tatters too, not just a home semi!

To think that we have lost to Kings, Zebre, Dragons plus Blues at home - if we had won those we would have been coasting in 2nd place. Add to that the narrow losses at the beginning of the season against Ulster (which we should have won) and Scarlets (which we could have won) and our season could have been so much better.

by Brendan Thu 28 Feb 2019, 11:12 am

RDW wrote:If we lost to Treviso and Leinster it's probably fair to say out Champions Cup ambitions are an tatters too, not just a home semi!

To think that we have lost to Kings, Zebre, Dragons plus Blues at home - if we had won those we would have been coasting in 2nd place. Add to that the narrow losses at the beginning of the season against Ulster (which we should have won) and Scarlets (which we could have won) and our season could have been so much better.

It's amazing to think that the Kings two wins are against the Scottish teams. Is the losses to the lower teams for Edinburgh a sign of a weak squad or is it just not having the smarts to see things through. I know before Cockers came Edinburgh were the champions of snatching defeats from winning positions. I think after backing up last year's results again this year (even if they finish 5th they will most likely be a few points off 2nd) fan will be expecting these anomalies to be fixed. Last year they lost to Dragons away the Benneton at home which cost them a home semi or at best a home Quarter v Cheetahs and then an easy away semi win v Glasgow.

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 11:35 am

Simon Berghan signs a 2 year deal.

Good news - I thought he might look elsewhere as he's 2nd place behind Nel at Edinburgh, but there should be plenty games over a season for them both to play.

by EWT Spoons Thu 28 Feb 2019, 11:36 am

Glad he's signed up, he's been a very capable player for us, and certainly last season when Nel was out, he really stepped up.

by **RDW** Thu 28 Feb 2019, 11:36 am

Brendan - all of those losses happened during international windows so it was definitely a squad issue, although we had a huge injury list at the time as well.

During the AIs we were down to the bare bones, particularly in the pack, where we had to play academy players and bring others in from the 7s squad and London Scottish.

We still should have had enough to win those games though so there was also a mentality issue as well.

by Brendan Thu 28 Feb 2019, 12:39 pm

RDW wrote:Brendan - all of those losses happened during international windows so it was definitely a squad issue, although we had a huge injury list at the time as well.

During the AIs we were down to the bare bones, particularly in the pack, where we had to play academy players and bring others in from the 7s squad and London Scottish.

We still should have had enough to win those games though so there was also a mentality issue as well.

I suppose it's growing pains of having a good team where Scotland take your pack because you have become good. With all the signings going on it does seem like the squad is being maintained or improved as the youngster develop and improve. Cockers has also improved at rotating a bit aswell looking in from the outside which must also help.

by Brendan Thu 28 Feb 2019, 12:47 pm

RDW wrote:Brendan - all of those losses happened during international windows so it was definitely a squad issue, although we had a huge injury list at the time as well.

During the AIs we were down to the bare bones, particularly in the pack, where we had to play academy players and bring others in from the 7s squad and London Scottish.

We still should have had enough to win those games though so there was also a mentality issue as well.

Its the growing pains of the whole pack going off to Scotland duty because they are now good enough. Youngsters will have learned and improve next year. In two years the developing players will be better equipped.

by Hazel Sapling Thu 28 Feb 2019, 1:26 pm

One of the good things about players moving outside Scotland beyond opening up spots is also helping Scotland during international breaks. A 23 with Skinner, Graham, Russell, Laidlaw, Hogg ( Sad

), Taylor, Dell and R Gray really reduces the burden on Glasgow and Edinburgh.

I was trying to explain to my Welsh GF (for my sins) why Welsh and Irish sides should do better during international breaks vs the heavily hit teams in Italy and Scotland during a Dragons game....then Treviso ruined them

by tigertattie Fri 01 Mar 2019, 9:53 am

Yup, players going to other clubs not only helps them to kick on a a player and learn new things, but it frees up space at the Scottish club

The only downside is you lose the ability to manage the player, hense the Russell issue with Racing.

You can't have your cake and eat it though!

by **RDW** Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:23 pm

Good to see Nel and Watson have returned but no Mata or VDM - could be a long 80 minutes.

Who is Jack Blaine??

Scotland internationalists Hamish Watson and WP Nel return from injury to feature in the starting line-up as Edinburgh face Benetton at Stadio Comunale di Monigo in the Guinness PRO14 tomorrow afternoon (Saturday 2 March, kick-off 3pm GMT/ 4pm local) – live on Premier Sports
The duo are joined in the starting XV by scrum-half Henry Pyrgos – who captains the side – and centre Chris Dean, with both players missing out on last weekend’s encounter against Cardiff Blues at BT Murrayfield due to international selection.
Scotland U20 standout Jack Blain makes his competitive debut on the wing alongside club centurion Tom Brown - who shifts to fullback - while Ally Miller is selected at No.8.
Influential trio Dougie Fife, Duhan van der Merwe and Viliame Mata miss out on the trip to Treviso through injury.
Ahead of the fixture, Head Coach Richard Cockerill, said: “It’s a huge game for us and it’s a huge game in the context of the conference. We’ve had a couple of defeats in the last few games and they are four points above us. We need to win.
“Benetton are a good side. They are the third best form team in the league after Munster and Leinster. They haven’t lost many games and they have picked off some big scalps in the league recently in Glasgow and Scarlets. They had a huge win against Dragons last weekend as well.
“It will be a very tough match, but the momentum of our season will swing if we can go there and win. That’s the reality of the game and that’s our objective. We’ve got to be hungry to go there and win.”
The inclusion of Brown on the wing is the only alteration to an otherwise unchanged back-three as winger Damien Hoyland makes his second start of the season alongside fullback, Dougie Fife.
Dean once again links-up with James Johnstone in a centre pairing that has produced 40 points so far this season, while Pyrgos returns to partner stand-off Jaco van der Walt at half-back.
David Cherry is once again selected at hooker and packs down alongside Pierre Schoeman and returning 27-times capped tighthead Nel in the front-row.
Locks Fraser McKenzie and Callum Hunter continue in the second-row, while Scotland star Watson anchors a back-row featuring up-and-coming duo Luke Crosbie and Miller.
Elsewhere, Scotland internationalist Ben Toolis is named among the replacements after featuring from the bench against France in last weekend's Guinness Six Nations Test in Paris.

Edinburgh team to face Benetton Rugby at Stadio Comunale di Monigo in the Guinness PRO14 on Saturday 2 March (kick-off 3pm GMT/ 4pm local) – live on Premier Sports and Free Sports

15. Tom Brown (117)

14. Damien Hoyland (59)

13. James Johnstone (37)

12. Chris Dean (82)

11. Jack Blain*

10. Jaco van der Walt (34)

9. Henry Pyrgos (18) CAPTAIN

1. Pierre Schoeman (17)

2. David Cherry (15)

3. WP Nel (128)

4. Fraser McKenzie (111)

5. Callum Hunter-Hill (14)

6. Luke Crosbie (25)

7. Hamish Watson (94)

8. Ally Miller (7)

Replacements: 16 Ross Ford (193); 17 Rory Sutherland (73); 18 Pietro Ceccarelli (9); 19 Ben Toolis (104); 20 Senitiki Nayalo (2); 21 Nathan Fowles (70); 22 Simon Hickey (16); 23 Mark Bennett (15)
Unavailable due to injury: Lewis Carmichael; John Barclay; Luke Hamilton; Viliame Mata; Matt Scott; Dougie Fife; Duhan van der Merwe
Unavailable due to international selection: Simon Berghan; Magnus Bradbury; Allan Dell; Grant Gilchrist; Darcy Graham; Blair Kinghorn; Stuart McInally; Jamie Ritchie

*Edinburgh competitve debut

by tigertattie Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:40 pm

If we can't beat a Benetton team completely ransacked by intenrational call ups, then we may as well stop trying in the league.

By no means will it be an "easy" game, away from home and all, but many of the Benetton players will have been doing thier day jobs leading up to it for crying out loud

by **RDW** Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:42 pm

They've been on great form and pumped the Dragons last week (who beat us when we were without internationals) - they will definitely be favourites.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:43 pm

Allegedly an U20 stand-out... I have no clue though, an U20 stand-out from 10 years ago?

A quick google says he was in the U18 squad that beat England last year, crikey he really is wet behind the ears. Must be good if cockers thinks he can do a job away from home against a revitalised benetton team!

It's still a tough ask, has Ally Miller featured at any other points this season? I understand he has quite a lot of promise.

by **RDW** Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:48 pm

He's probably played 4 or 5 times now due to the huge injury list - very athletic but also pretty lightweight.. When everyone's fit he's nowhere near the team so may struggle to have much of a future. He's also not an 8!

by EWT Spoons Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:49 pm

Sorry Tattie but that's insane, Benetton have been superb this year and as RDW says they destroyed Dragons last week and beat Scarlets in the game prior.

Also what do you mean they'll have been doing their day jobs leading up to it?

RDW - Bain, young winger who got a run out in one of the preseason games (bath I think) From what I remember he's a big lad and is certainly highly thought of. Which means he'll play this week and then we'll never see him again

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 01 Mar 2019, 12:51 pm

Interesting for glasgow that Steyn has been shoved in the centres, didn't see his debut on the wing, anyone know how he got on?

Could this be a toonieism introduced for the national team?

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