Wales RWC 2019 Thread

by Guest Mon 26 Nov 2018, 1:41 am

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

by Gooseberry Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:53 pm

Everyone get a quid on Wales to win now

by maestegmafia Tue 17 Sep 2019, 4:56 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Everyone get a quid on Wales to win now

Since Howley’s departure the odds on Wales winning haven’t shortened...!

by mikey_dragon Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Unfortunately reports that Aled Davies was also involved and that Rhys Webb is travelling with Wellies to Japan are merely vicious rumours.

Oh how you built me up, just to let me down! Good riddance to Howley though. He's been stealing a living from us for too long and surely he knew the rules and regulations with regards to betting. Absolute mug.

by maestegmafia Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Unfortunately reports that Aled Davies was also involved and that Rhys Webb is travelling with Wellies to Japan are merely vicious rumours.

Oh how you built me up, just to let me down! Good riddance to Howley though. He's been stealing a living from us for too long and surely he knew the rules and regulations with regards to betting. Absolute mug.

I agree that if he has broken the rules he is an absolute idiot and has let not only himself but those who trusted him down.

Though the WRU statement doesn’t say he was gambling just that he is assisting in an investigation. I’m sure the truth will be told sooner or later.

Big surprise though. I had heard he enjoyed a drink, but not that he had a gambling problem.

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:10 pm

And just when we were winning the Japanese over Sad

by Guest Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:16 pm

Howley was apparently rigging the World Cup sweep stake at WRU headquarters. He took out all the good teams for himself and left the rest of the staff with Russia, Namibia and England! Run

by 123456789. Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:16 pm

A huge moment for the autobiographies of the Welsh players here. Either the first step in a famous victory or the first step in an unlikely unravelling. From what I have read the Welsh team seems to have won a lot in the last decade despite Rob Howley not of because Rob Howley. I think some teams would be affected far more greatly than Wales. Gatland and Alun Wyn Jones' experience will see you guys through.

by Pie Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:19 pm

This will galvanize them IMO. Some siege mentality might make everyone wake up from their Japanese jolly - we have a job to do

by Luckless Pedestrian Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:27 pm

There's bound to be a huge difference between how (sections of) the Welsh public see Rob Howley and how the players see him. I can see there being a genuine feeling of 'let's do it for Rob', even if he has brought it on himself.

Either that, or they'll think they're not going to let the b*stard derail their World Cup campaign!

by Guest Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:30 pm

It’s started already:

Wales RWC 2019 Thread - Page 19 Df188710

by No9 Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:42 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
No9 wrote:Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, not got the time to trawl back over all the old posts...

Have you seen the support the boys are getting in Japan... 15000 queue up for 3 hours to see Wales train... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/49713588)...

You have to give it to the Japanese people, they give they're all to ensure their tournaments are a success...

Diolch yn fawr Japan

It’s incredible how much work the WRU has been doing in Kitakyushu and the whole Kyushu province. Inspired by the Kuwi RWC and the way locals adopted the Welsh squad and fans apparently.

Not sure how many touring fans will be in Japan, it’s a long way and a very expensive country to visit so all local Wales supporters are a massive plus.

Especially with their rendition of Calon Lân

Flights accommodation and match tickets for €1100 for me. Its not as expensive as you think.

Yep.... but you have a currency that still means something. Thanks to BoJo the Clown, Mogg the Fool and Farage the Drunk, the £ has about the same value as Cameron's book.... which is about 10p less per sheet than Andrex.

by No9 Tue 17 Sep 2019, 5:45 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Is it true Howley has been sacked and sent home from Japan for betting offenses? What are the odds on that!!

I heard he was being lined up by Italy to take over from O'Shea too.

Who'd have bet on that.... Whistle

by mikey_dragon Tue 17 Sep 2019, 6:10 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:There's bound to be a huge difference between how (sections of) the Welsh public see Rob Howley and how the players see him. I can see there being a genuine feeling of 'let's do it for Rob', even if he has brought it on himself.

Either that, or they'll think they're not going to let the b*stard derail their World Cup campaign!

My guess is the latter. I don't ever recall hearing much positive about Rob Howley but I have heard the opposite from Wales players and Lions players.

by **RiscaGame** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 6:33 pm

Pie wrote:Seriously if it is proven he is finished and good riddance

Probably was finished in Wales anyway. I wouldn’t have minded him coaching elsewhere. Even Munster would’ve been fine.

by Taylorman Tue 17 Sep 2019, 7:53 pm

GAww first there’s drugs and racism, now there’s a betting scam, and it hasn’t even started yet? What’s next? A late night hotel incident gotta be on the cards. Whistle

by mikey_dragon Tue 17 Sep 2019, 8:51 pm

Taylorman wrote:GAww first there’s drugs and racism, now there’s a betting scam, and it hasn’t even started yet? What’s next? A late night hotel incident gotta be on the cards.

England I reckon. Them lot are never short of controversy on tour! Wink

by SecretFly Tue 17 Sep 2019, 9:13 pm

Surely Howley wouldn't be dumb enough to place a bet on Wales losing certain specific games in their pool? Wouldn't it have to be something like that? After all, not many people going to be too worked up about him putting a hundred grand on Wales to win games.

by mikey_dragon Tue 17 Sep 2019, 9:19 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Wales' team announced at 4am on Saturday. I suspect I won't be awake for that.

Great cheers, I was just looking for that.

That's what Chris Kirwan of the South Wales Argus said anyway, in his article about Wainwright potentially starting over Moriarty this weekend (here).

It seems we love No.7s. I read that Wainright, Tips and Navidi could be the starting back-row. I'm still unsure about that combo. Shingler isn't starting because he's covering lock from the bench, I think given him a run at 6 in this game was an ideal opportunity for him to play himself back into contention.

by majesticimperialman Tue 17 Sep 2019, 10:08 pm

Will Howley's sacking have an affect on Wales squad as a whole? And how would bringing in Stephen Jones help steady the ship?

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 17 Sep 2019, 11:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:Surely Howley wouldn't be dumb enough to place a bet on Wales losing certain specific games in their pool? Wouldn't it have to be something like that? After all, not many people going to be too worked up about him putting a hundred grand on Wales to win games.

BBC report mentions the regulation. No bets of any kind are allowed.

World Rugby's regulation 6.3.1 reads: "No connected person shall, directly or indirectly, bet and/or attempt to bet on the outcome or any aspect of any connected event and/or receive and/or attempt to receive part or all of the proceeds of any such bet and/or any other benefit in relation to a bet."

by Pie Wed 18 Sep 2019, 2:08 am

Taylorman wrote:GAww first there’s drugs and racism, now there’s a betting scam, and it hasn’t even started yet? What’s next? A late night hotel incident gotta be on the cards.

yeah it wil be banging fans in the airport bogs next

by Taylorman Wed 18 Sep 2019, 3:57 am

Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:GAww first there’s drugs and racism, now there’s a betting scam, and it hasn’t even started yet? What’s next? A late night hotel incident gotta be on the cards.

yeah it wil be banging fans in the airport bogs next

yeah..nah...

D- for that effort. Humour a bit dry in them there valleys huh? Wales RWC 2019 Thread - Page 19 1347041234

by carpet baboon Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:15 am

"WILD UNFOUNDED RUMOUR KLAXON ALERT"

Mr Howley placed a sizeable bet on England to win the world cup

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:16 am

Wonder if any other tournaments have a ban on betting, and whether the investigation will cover whether Howley has placed bets during them.

by carpet baboon Wed 18 Sep 2019, 6:41 am

Isn't it a world rugby rule you can't place any bets on any rugby?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:05 am

SecretFly wrote:Surely Howley wouldn't be dumb enough to place a bet on Wales losing certain specific games in their pool? Wouldn't it have to be something like that? After all, not many people going to be too worked up about him putting a hundred grand on Wales to win games.

All betting on rugby would be deemed against the regulations. He could be betting on Wales to win, he could be betting on the outcome of Southland v Bay of Plenty, all would cause an issue. Fair or not this is a common stance amongst sports authorities and their view seems to be that to protect the sport there should be zero betting by participants. I recall a female Aussie cricketer getting a ban of a year for betting on men's matches.

by Noble-Surfer Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:46 am

With Stephen Jones being called up, who knows, it may end up being a blessing in disguise- depending on your definition of disguise! Wink

I think Gats & Co will be able to help the players through this in terms of mentality- backs against the wall, siege mentality, etc. Just hope that Stephen Jones has enough time to implement his ideas, and the players have enough time to learn new routines, etc.

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 7:50 am

LondonTiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Surely Howley wouldn't be dumb enough to place a bet on Wales losing certain specific games in their pool? Wouldn't it have to be something like that? After all, not many people going to be too worked up about him putting a hundred grand on Wales to win games.

All betting on rugby would be deemed against the regulations. He could be betting on Wales to win, he could be betting on the outcome of Southland v Bay of Plenty, all would cause an issue. Fair or not this is a common stance amongst sports authorities and their view seems to be that to protect the sport there should be zero betting by participants. I recall a female Aussie cricketer getting a ban of a year for betting on men's matches.

The WrU statement states that Howley is assisting in an investigation, all else is speculation. The statement doesn’t say that he has been fired, it says that he has left. It’s all ambiguous.

I bet he knew everyone would make up their own conclusion, despite the odds.

by TightHEAD Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:08 am

What were the odds on that happening, Rob?

by Guest Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:10 am

Howley's on the 12.55 plane back - i.e. 5/1! drumroll

by SecretFly Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:22 am

LondonTiger wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Surely Howley wouldn't be dumb enough to place a bet on Wales losing certain specific games in their pool? Wouldn't it have to be something like that? After all, not many people going to be too worked up about him putting a hundred grand on Wales to win games.

All betting on rugby would be deemed against the regulations. He could be betting on Wales to win, he could be betting on the outcome of Southland v Bay of Plenty, all would cause an issue. Fair or not this is a common stance amongst sports authorities and their view seems to be that to protect the sport there should be zero betting by participants. I recall a female Aussie cricketer getting a ban of a year for betting on men's matches.

I hear below that anything but the official statement is speculation. So be it, and of course. Speculation is what it - a healthy part of the human inquisitive condition. So I still personally presume that the suddenness, the blunt cut off, the 'urgency' of the optics of heading home leads me to speculate that he just didn't put a punt on a Wales victory somewhere along the lines.

I'd BET that players and coaches have at times dabbled (nothing is ever perfect - and if players take drugs and often don't get caught then I think it not a big leap of faith to believe that people directly involved in rugby often get away with betting on outcomes). I'd presume that the policing in this area is most fully focused on any betting occurring negatively in games of influence - coaches betting/conspiring against their own team, players betting/conspiring against their own team
So.... the projected urgency of the immediate departure this time seems to infer to me that any irregularity in Howley's PRESUMED actions might involve this very WC about to start and perhaps Wales outcomes of a negative nature. It might also involve him rushing home to defend his name against such a malicious charge made by an individual or individuals.

Whatever the truth, I do speculate that the issue is decidedly more serious than a Welsh coach betting on the outcome of Southland v Bay of Plenty game. I'll go further - IF the accusation is a bet on a game of the nature of a Southland v Bay of Plenty game, then the timing of such an accusation would in my mind be deemed an attempt to disrupt Wales preparations during a WC. So still pretty serious stuff in terms of Wales + WC.

by TightHEAD Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:24 am

Lets be honest if anything I think that helps Wales.

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:36 am

Apparently Wellies arrives on Thursday, as he has coached a number of the team at Scarlets, played with a few, played for Warren and as the new coaching team have been closely following the current coaching team as part of their transition Wellies has been well indoctrined into the squad already.

His appointment was apparently at the senior players request.

So how will he differ to Howley? He can’t really tear up Howley copy book so late in the day. He can’t make massive changes to what the players in the squad have been working on for the last few months in camp.

But I believe his astute eye and close relationship with the team will make his transition easy and he may well see a few things that others didn’t that may help.

By all accounts the reports on his coaching ability are that he is exceptionally talented.

I wonder whether he will be consulted on selection too?

by **LondonTiger** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:41 am

I find it weird that people are always so quick to slate Howley, yet will praise Gatlands coaching and management. Gats has been great for Wales (and was great at Wasps) so surely if Howley was as bad as posters believe he would have removed him?

by TightHEAD Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:43 am

I suspect Wales will return to WarrenBall if Jones falls out with Gatland, Bish Bash Bosh......

by Collapse2005 Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:44 am

LondonTiger wrote:I find it weird that people are always so quick to slate Howley, yet will praise Gatlands coaching and management. Gats has been great for Wales (and was great at Wasps) so surely if Howley was as bad as posters believe he would have removed him?

I have got to say I agree with that. Didnt Howley also win a six nations with Wales when Gatland was away?

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:00 am

LondonTiger wrote:I find it weird that people are always so quick to slate Howley, yet will praise Gatlands coaching and management. Gats has been great for Wales (and was great at Wasps) so surely if Howley was as bad as posters believe he would have removed him?

I have made the same point many many times but no one needs it. In Howley’s detractors defence a number of lions players didn’t rate Howley as lions backs coach.

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:06 am

TightHEAD wrote:I suspect Wales will return to WarrenBall if Jones falls out with Gatland, Bish Bash Bosh......

Why on earth would you state that???

That has no logic whatsoever

Howley was the backs coach throughout the Gatland era. Now new coach Stephen Jones is coming in who was coach of the Scarlets, playing beautiful attacking fast pace rugby.

Even the Warrenball term, coined from some Stuart Barnes comment a decade ago is a load of rubbish too. Gatlands teams have played a variety of styles as the players, opposition and game has changed.

What you wrote has no worth, no thought, no background at all.

by Ninjarugby Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:11 am

Odd timing that 2 big stories re. Wales have broken in the past week with Gareth Thomas & now Howley.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I don't trust the media.
As an Irish fan being told that the Ireland/Scotland match could be called off because of rain was a bit of a non-starter.
I don't know but how good is Jones as a back coach? Will he fit in seamlessly & will Gatland trust him? All the systems should be in place at this stage & how much will Jones know about them.
Regardless of this I think if Wales get over Australia they'll have too much for whoever comes 2nd in C.
Good luck in any case...

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:17 am

Ninjarugby wrote:Odd timing that 2 big stories re. Wales have broken in the past week with Gareth Thomas & now Howley.
Maybe I'm just being paranoid but I don't trust the media.
As an Irish fan being told that the Ireland/Scotland match could be called off because of rain was a bit of a non-starter.
I don't know but how good is Jones as a back coach? Will he fit in seamlessly & will Gatland trust him? All the systems should be in place at this stage & how much will Jones know about them.
Regardless of this I think if Wales get over Australia they'll have too much for whoever comes 2nd in C.
Good luck in any case...

Stephen Jones was Gatlands first choice Flyhalf at the beginning of his Tenure, Jones last played for Wales at the 2011 RWC playoff vs Australia.

After retirement he became backs coach at Scarlets and was part of the coaching team that saw Scarlets reach Semis in the Heineken Cup and win the Pro 14 playing a very fluent expansive style of rugby.

by Collapse2005 Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:26 am

Looks like Howley is in fairly deep doo do. Apparently he bet on Rhys Webb not making the RWC squad and he was also betting on Wales first try scorers while also being responsible for back moves for those particular players. He is said to have put a big bet on England winning the RWC which is particularly bad when there is a good chance Wales could meet England in the knock out stages. Lastly there are also allegations of money laundering relating to a cafe he owns too.

by **rodders** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:28 am

Wow crazy if true.

by BamBam Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:29 am

If it was a gambling problem gone too far, I imagine most would have a degree of sympathy and understand

Those allegations sound more like insider trading

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:38 am

Collapse2005 wrote:..Apparently he bet on Rhys Webb not making the RWC squad...

If true, you have to wonder who would accept such a bet knowing he, or someone close to him, was making it.

by robbo277 Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:41 am

Taylorman wrote:GAww first there’s drugs and racism, now there’s a betting scam, and it hasn’t even started yet? What’s next? A late night hotel incident gotta be on the cards.

Drugs and racism?

You can add a fight on a team night out (Te'o and Brown) to the list of "scandal" - although it wasn't widely reported for a few days.

by **RiscaGame** Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Looks like Howley is in fairly deep doo do. Apparently he bet on Rhys Webb not making the RWC squad and he was also betting on Wales first try scorers while also being responsible for back moves for those particular players. He is said to have put a big bet on England winning the RWC which is particularly bad when there is a good chance Wales could meet England in the knock out stages. Lastly there are also allegations of money laundering relating to a cafe he owns too.

Has somebody reported that? Would be interesting to read or know more about the rumours.

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:46 am

Just a friendly reminder to everyone that we have to consider any claims that could be perceived liable. Please just consider what you type else Mods will have to delete posts.

Unfortunately there is little other press on anything but Howley and that leaves us with little else to discuss on this thread. But until facts are all out it is hard to make any judgement on what has happened.

by Collapse2005 Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:51 am

The betting company that the bets went through contacted the WRU directly to inform them of the irregularities.

by BamBam Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:54 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:..Apparently he bet on Rhys Webb not making the RWC squad...
If true, you have to wonder who would accept such a bet knowing he, or someone close to him, was making it.

Wouldn't necessarily have to be him who made the bet for it to break the rules

by BamBam Wed 18 Sep 2019, 11:55 am

maestegmafia wrote:Just a friendly reminder to everyone that we have to consider any claims that could be perceived liable. Please just consider what you type else Mods will have to delete posts.

Unfortunately there is little other press on anything but Howley and that leaves us with little else to discuss on this thread. But until facts are all out it is hard to make any judgement on what has happened.

It's "libel"

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