6 Nations - IRELAND v ENGLAND 2nd Feb 2019

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6 Nations

IRELAND v ENGLAND

Saturday 02 February 2019 16:45 GMT

Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Maybe a little early but I for one can not wait for this fixture. 2nd vs 4th.

The 6 Nations is officially the BEST rugby competition........................In the World.

England starting XV (485 caps)

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

Finishers (206 caps)

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

LondonTiger wrote:I would not be completely surprised to see all 4 locks in the 23

Are you thinking a 6-2 split on the bench LT? Or just Lawes and Itoje being used as flanker cover with Wilson covering 8?

Jones has been known to just pick his best players regardless of expected combinations so I could see that later happening.

king_carlos wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:I would not be completely surprised to see all 4 locks in the 23

Are you thinking a 6-2 split on the bench LT? Or just Lawes and Itoje being used as flanker cover with Wilson covering 8?

Jones has been known to just pick his best players regardless of expected combinations so I could see that later happening.

I can envisage Eddie picking Lawes at 6. Doubt he would go 6-2 bench, but tiny chance he may select 2 locks on the bench in a 5-3 split.

As you say Eddie does like to select players first and then worry about position.

My theory is that Kruis might start because of the strength of Ireland's set piece, both scrum and lineout. England's scrum has been okay but creaky at times and Jones stated more than once a few years ago that Kruis is the strongest scrumaging lock of the four. Then add to that he is England's best lineout operator and the club connection with George and Itoje. But I'd argue that defensively Launchbury is more effective in open play and I personally don't feel that either Launchbury or Kruis are particularly effective coming off the bench. Just like LT I have a feeling that Lawes may start at 6, thus moving Wilson to the bench. Hope not.

I think a 6/2 is a possibility as a few of England's backs cover more than one position. Farrell, Slade, Daly, Brown & if involved Nowell all have started internationals in two or more positions. Very Australian of Eddie is that.

RDW wrote:Congrats to rodders, who will represent the men (and women) in green as a new rugby moderator

Him? The real rodders?

He only comes here on his holidays. And then it's only to wum. He's the classiest Irish wummer on this site!

Shocking development. I hope I wake up tomorrow to find it was only a severe case of Fake News.

If curry gets injured then Wilson to seven, he's more than capable. He's an absolute pain in the arse to play against and is quality on the floor. He can tackle all day too, he's going to need to sat! If we start Wilson and curry Sat then I am feeling pretty good about reducing our deficit at the breakdown. Billy is more key for us as there really isn't anyone near him in terms of what he brings (within England squad before all you celts get arsey). Going back to combined team I think I might take Jonathan Davies mk2 over ringrose. I would also put Jordan lamore in there as I like a fire cracker of a 15 as it just really upsets the rhythm of teams.

LondonTiger wrote:The 25 players retained by Jones:

Mako Vunipola, Jamie George, Kyle Sinckler, Maro Itoje, Courtney Lawes, Mark Wilson, Tom Curry, Billy Vunipola
Ben Youngs, George Ford, Jonny May, Owen Farrell, Manu Tuilagi, Jack Nowell, Elliot Daly
Luke Cowan-Dickie, Ellis Genge, Harry Williams, Joe Launchbury, Nathan Hughes, Dan Robson, Henry Slade, Chris Ashton

Not picked: George Kruis, Mike Brown

Is how I'd go. Maybe Slade for Ford with Farrell switching back to 10.

Hmm....big lads...............

Irish lads better not forget their gum shields. It's going to be noisy in the teeth department,

LondonTiger wrote:As to the pack, Mitchell was talking up Lawes as an option at 6. I hope not, but would not be surprised.

One of the attractions of Shields for Jones is that he is a genuine lineout option. Now that he is out, I can understand why Jones might once again dabble with playing a lock on the flank. I don't like the idea, since the back row balance has never been quite right when we've done that, but I think Jones is probably approaching this match with a very specific plan in mind.

Given the injuries and not retaining Devoto, I think Jones will revert to a Ford-Farrell partnership. I'd prefer to see Slade go to the position his skills seem made for and he used to play for his club until they realised they had too many of and no one of similar quality to play outside. I'd have Tuilagi to come on as impact because I think Ireland will have the majority of possession and Ringrose would be targeting Tuilagi's defensive line discipline with his quality footwork and passing, or taking advantage of his slow turn with ground kicks through. Nowell over Ashton for better aerial ability and a bit more physicality (particularly lined up against stockdale).

Mako
George
Sinckler
Itoje
Launchbury
Wilson
Curry
Billy

Youngs
Farrell
May
Slade
Daly
Nowell
Brown

LCD, Genge, Williams, Lawes, Hughes, Robson, Ford, Tuilagi

Irish Times are reporting that Henshaw will start at 15. He hasn't played there since his Connacht days but it's a really exciting prospect in my opinion and we could see far more from him there than the very slightly limited 12 he was being moulded into. However perhaps it's a ruse and we'll find out on Thursday.

Referencing a couple of posts from above:

With the amount he has played in the second row, never sure why Wilson is not considered a lineout option.

Cannot remember seeing Slade play 12 for Chiefs. I remember them looking to phase him into the 10 shirt, but he never performed better there than Steenson. Just cannot recall him at 12.

theslosty wrote:Irish Times are reporting that Henshaw will start at 15. He hasn't played there since his Connacht days but it's a really exciting prospect in my opinion and we could see far more from him there than the very slightly limited 12 he was being moulded into. However perhaps it's a ruse and we'll find out on Thursday.

He has been training at 15 all week apparently.

LondonTiger wrote:Referencing a couple of posts from above:

With the amount he has played in the second row, never sure why Wilson is not considered a lineout option.

Cannot remember seeing Slade play 12 for Chiefs. I remember them looking to phase him into the 10 shirt, but he never performed better there than Steenson. Just cannot recall him at 12.

He's a good lineout option LT, its just Mark is not a fashionable player so others are preferred. He's made from Cumbrian granite...he'll give POM a good battle if he's selected.

Yes not as good a lineout option as others though. Same to Launchbury. You know I'm a huge fan but even I think it would be a smart thing if we played a stronger option against Ireland.

POM Vs Wilson would be a fantastic match up

I heard that Tuilagi and Farrell are starting in the centres for England with Ford at 10. Has that been confirmed?

It'll be released on Thursday collapse. Under Jones there hasn't really.been the leaks with teams there was under the previous regime so it may just be guess work.

Collapse2005 wrote:I heard that Tuilagi and Farrell are starting in the centres for England with Ford at 10. Has that been confirmed?

That would be an awful selection for England. Farrell should stay at 10 and Jones should get some consistency into his selections, particularly his 9/10 partnership. The injury to Te'o has upset things, granted.

Why would it be awful? Purely from a consistency basis?

theslosty wrote:Irish Times are reporting that Henshaw will start at 15. He hasn't played there since his Connacht days but it's a really exciting prospect in my opinion and we could see far more from him there than the very slightly limited 12 he was being moulded into. However perhaps it's a ruse and we'll find out on Thursday.

That is a surprise, it seems a very un-Schmidt like selection. OK Conway is injured but Larmour has been seen as the other main understudy to Kearney recently so it's a bit of a left field choice.

It's perhaps a sign that Aki is now a key man and perhaps the favored center partnership is now him and Ringrose.

I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would it be awful? Purely from a  consistency basis?

Well lets face it it'll be a miracle if Tuillagi stays fit till the weekend.
In theory its pretty much a like for like with T'eo and not really any better or worse than Te'o Farell.

I assume his point is firstly on consistency and giving partnerships a chance to develop, but Ford Farrell is a much better developed combination that Farrell whoeverhappenstobefit.
The other objection would be that neither is seen as a silky runner, Farrell pretty much doesnt carry the ball and Tuilagi is increasingly direct as he has lost the edge from his explosive pace. But we do gain Fords running at 10.

When you chuck Youngs in at 9 its a midfield that are very familiar with each other (except the 12/13 combination), so as a scratch cobbled together unit it could be worse. Does seem a bit odd that most of the backs will come from a side that been so mediocre (and spanked by an Irish team), but attack hasn't been an issue for Tigers.

theslosty wrote:I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

I'm open minded about it, just I'd have expected to see him get a run there for Leinster.

However it seems like Kearney and Larmour have been preferred at 15 by both Ireland and Leinster, so it does seem an odd move in such a big game.

rodders wrote:

theslosty wrote:I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

I'm open minded about it, just I'd have expected to see him get a run there for Leinster.

However it seems like Kearney and Larmour have been preferred at 15 by both Ireland and Leinster, so it does seem an odd move in such a big game.

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

Gooseberry wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would it be awful? Purely from a  consistency basis?

Well lets face it it'll be a miracle if Tuillagi stays fit till the weekend.
In theory its pretty much a like for like with T'eo and not really any better or worse than Te'o Farell.

I assume his point is firstly on consistency and giving partnerships a chance to develop, but Ford Farrell is a much better developed combination that Farrell whoeverhappenstobefit.
The other objection would be that neither is seen as a silky runner, Farrell pretty much doesnt carry the ball and Tuilagi is increasingly direct as he has lost the edge from his explosive pace. But we do gain Fords running at 10.

When you chuck Youngs in at 9 its a midfield that are very familiar with each other (except the 12/13 combination), so as a scratch cobbled together unit it could be worse. Does seem a bit odd that most of the backs will come from a side that been so mediocre (and spanked by an Irish team), but attack hasn't been an issue for Tigers.

A number of different news sources are reporting Tuilagi to get a start.

https://www.standard.co.uk/rugby-world-cup-2007/ireland-vs-england-team-news-manu-tuilagi-set-to-start-in-six-nations-opener-a4052141.html

Collapse2005 wrote:

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

It'll help whoever plays on Englands right wing if he doesn't.

Larmour has yet to convinced Schmidt he is a safe pair of hands at 15 - still work in progress

Henshaw at 15 would not surprise me, nor would Addison

Duty281 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I heard that Tuilagi and Farrell are starting in the centres for England with Ford at 10. Has that been confirmed?

That would be an awful selection for England. Farrell should stay at 10 and Jones should get some consistency into his selections, particularly his 9/10 partnership. The injury to Te'o has upset things, granted.

We finished our last test with Ford / Farrell / Tuilagi in the midfield. Farrell scored a try in that configuration about a minute after Ford came on.

Wigglesworth was at 9, but Youngs and Ford are an established pair for England and Leicester. and Ford / Farrell is an established partnership at England level. Tuilagi will know what lines to pick off Ford, who plays flat, and Farrell can sit behind Tuilagi and look to release May, Daly and Nowell in the outside channels.

It's a good configuration for a backline. Just depends if Eddie lines them up that way. Read the Metro this morning and Mitchell spoke quite effusively about Tuilagi.

From an Irish point of view it will help us if manu starts at 12

Gooseberry wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

It'll help whoever plays on Englands right wing if he doesn't.

Haha smart arse

LondonTiger wrote:Referencing a couple of posts from above:

With the amount he has played in the second row, never sure why Wilson is not considered a lineout option.

Cannot remember seeing Slade play 12 for Chiefs. I remember them looking to phase him into the 10 shirt, but he never performed better there than Steenson. Just cannot recall him at 12.

It's where he played the majority of the season they won the premiership, 2016-2017.

Collapse2005 wrote:

rodders wrote:

theslosty wrote:I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

I'm open minded about it, just I'd have expected to see him get a run there for Leinster.

However it seems like Kearney and Larmour have been preferred at 15 by both Ireland and Leinster, so it does seem an odd move in such a big game.

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

Does he? To me he rarely makes reactionary calls, usually something is planned well in advance. He's usually pretty low risk with selection - unless this is something they use regularly in training - Henshaw has never featured for Ireland at 15 that I can remember and he's been around a while.

Addison would have seemed the logical next in line.

Ireland can throw anything they wan at us on Saturday, we have been training with Swimming Noddles to practice for the high balls. We will be unstoppable.

When are the teams announced?

England on Thursday I believe Rodders.

Ireland usually announce on Thursday too for Saturday games.

Gooseberry wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would it be awful? Purely from a  consistency basis?

Well lets face it it'll be a miracle if Tuillagi stays fit till the weekend.
In theory its pretty much a like for like with T'eo and not really any better or worse than Te'o Farell.

I assume his point is firstly on consistency and giving partnerships a chance to develop, but Ford Farrell is a much better developed combination that Farrell whoeverhappenstobefit.
The other objection would be that neither is seen as a silky runner, Farrell pretty much doesnt carry the ball and Tuilagi is increasingly direct as he has lost the edge from his explosive pace. But we do gain Fords running at 10.

When you chuck Youngs in at 9 its a midfield that are very familiar with each other (except the 12/13 combination), so as a scratch cobbled together unit it could be worse. Does seem a bit odd that most of the backs will come from a side that been so mediocre (and spanked by an Irish team), but attack hasn't been an issue for Tigers.

Not true to the best of my understanding. Tuilagi is a little lighter than he has been and I understand there has been more emphasis on running at gaps than over people. The direct approach has been a good way to get injured.

He has at least been scoring tries again for Leicester. I really hope he finally gets through a set of games for England and shows some of the form he used to have.

Picking Henshaw at 15 in a game like this smacks of RWC preparation. Testing the depth.

stub wrote:England on Thursday I believe Rodders.

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland usually announce on Thursday too for Saturday games.

I believe the rules state you have to name your team 48 hours in advance? Which is why we're getting French and Welsh team news today.

Some coaches do name earlier as a fairly ineffective mind game. Quite rare, I don't think anyone does it habitually, more just as a statement.

I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

So that we have time to dissect and examine why that selection has been picked, and then comment about it on a forum. Duh 

Presumably an anachronism of the amateur game? Going out on a limb - football more historically working class, prior to professionalism players wouldn't necessarily be available to play, hence last minute selection? Rugby, played by the leisure class, would be more sure of their availability for the weekend, hence announcement. But that's probably nonsene.

Be interesting to see if anyone knows the actual reason(s).

Am I the only one who thinks there is a bit of mind games here with some of these selection reports?

I'm no convinced at all about this Henshaw at 15 thing, I think they are trying to throw a bit of doubt into Eddies midfield selection....

Fluxy wrote:

BamBam wrote:I've never understood why the teams have to be named in advance in rugby, why is it not like football and named an hour before kickoff

So that we have time to dissect and examine why that selection has been picked, and then comment about it on a forum. Duh 

True, it does offer the chance of "I told you so's" both before and after the game

alcoombe wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Referencing a couple of posts from above:

With the amount he has played in the second row, never sure why Wilson is not considered a lineout option.

Cannot remember seeing Slade play 12 for Chiefs. I remember them looking to phase him into the 10 shirt, but he never performed better there than Steenson. Just cannot recall him at 12.

It's where he played the majority of the season they won the premiership, 2016-2017.

As Devoto made 17 starts and Sam Hill 7 during the regular season (Slade 14) I would be surprised if he spent most of that season at 12.

Though looking through those starts it appears he played half teh games at 10 and half at 12 with Devoto at 13. Could have sworn they had been the other way round. Still 7 games at 12 is not huge (though more than Manu)

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

rodders wrote:

theslosty wrote:I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

I'm open minded about it, just I'd have expected to see him get a run there for Leinster.

However it seems like Kearney and Larmour have been preferred at 15 by both Ireland and Leinster, so it does seem an odd move in such a big game.

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

Does he? To me he rarely makes reactionary calls, usually something is planned well in advance. He's usually pretty low risk with selection - unless this is something they use regularly in training - Henshaw has never featured for Ireland at 15 that I can remember and he's been around a while.

Addison would have seemed the logical next in line.  

Not reactionary calls but rather something new with each match day squad.

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

rodders wrote:

theslosty wrote:I like the call rodders, just wish they'd done it a lot sooner whether that was him playing for Leinster or Ireland. But supposedly he was meant to get some time there during November.

I'm open minded about it, just I'd have expected to see him get a run there for Leinster.

However it seems like Kearney and Larmour have been preferred at 15 by both Ireland and Leinster, so it does seem an odd move in such a big game.

Does Schmidt not nearly always have some sort of leftfield inclusion?

Does he? To me he rarely makes reactionary calls, usually something is planned well in advance. He's usually pretty low risk with selection - unless this is something they use regularly in training - Henshaw has never featured for Ireland at 15 that I can remember and he's been around a while.

Addison would have seemed the logical next in line.  

Congratulations on the promotion Rodders.

You are right that Schmidt rarely makes reactionary calls and wrong that this isn't planned well in advance. Joe has increased the depth at Ireland by being bold with such selections to keep players growing into team roles. Joe now has several players who can almost seamlessly take over from the previous incumbent in any position. That is great for selection when he looks around to see who is fit before naming a team. However this pick smacks of an insurance questionnaire for the RWC.
Joe has increased his depth so much for normal games but the RWC is potentially seven games using only 31 players, so the more players that can play in more than one position the better. Joe isn't content with having someone who covered fullback at school a couple of times, he needs someone to be tested in the arena he might one day expect them to play in. Schmidt has already tried three perfectly competent and exciting fullbacks in Larmour, Conway and Addison - maybe he is looking for a slightly more defensively orientated one? Had Henshaw been fit this would almost certainly have been tried last Autumn.

Thanks Aukster, yes I did wonder if this would have been tried earlier but for Robbie's injuries.

Good point on the defensive fullback suggestion, does it say something about how Ireland are approaching this game tactically?

Henshaw is strong under the high ball, and a good defender but I don't think he's particularly creative or a counterattacking threat...although its been sometime since he played 15.

miaow wrote:Presumably an anachronism of the amateur game? Going out on a limb - football more historically working class, prior to professionalism players wouldn't necessarily be available to play, hence last minute selection? Rugby, played by the leisure class, would be more sure of their availability for the weekend, hence announcement. But that's probably nonsene.

Be interesting to see if anyone knows the actual reason(s).

Maybe, but I would speculate that you're half right. Rugby being amateur but also involving significant travel time required arrangements to be made at the surgery, law firm, bank etc. so the secret would be out long before the game. Neither could rugby afford the luxury of onlookers travelling and no subs allowed during games so fairly easy to check who was on the boat or plane. This would of course have given the home team an advantage so both were required to post their teams at the same time a couple of days before.

I suspect it is a done deal that Henshaw will start 15 and VdF 7. I like the look of VdF starting and SOB off the bench. Formidable.