Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

On another note I’ve been teaching Spanish as part of my job this year, tricky when I don’t speak a word...or didn’t. Been using Duolingo for 3 weeks, still very early but amazing how quickly it helps you pick things up. Also asked the wife for some CD’s for Xmas to listen to on my commute. There is a Spanish guy who works for the premises team so when I feel a bit more confident Ill try some conversational Spanish with him.
Anyway, early but that’s my new year resolution, to follow it through and at least be competent, partly to help with my job and partly because Uve always wanted to learn a language, partly because I really think learning new stuff keeps your brain fresher.
Anyone else have something they really want to learn to do?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here Diggers, but how on earth can a school let someone without the skills in a subject to teach it? I can see how someone could blag teaching something like art, PE, English etc, but not a language. I suppose if it's at Primary Level you could teach counting to ten, asking where the railway station is etc.
I presume it's not secondary school?

[Diggers]

I think you are cutting him far too much slack. From what I’ve seen existing companies are very bemused as to why a decision like this would be made at such a crucial time. It’s not a situation that requires a cheapest option, promise the world with no experience to back it up, solution. Very few companies own their own transport, same with the train rolling stock, it’s all leased...which is part of the whole lack of long term accountability issue we have.
I wouldn’t trust the bloke to refuel my car properly.

The bit in bold demonstrates you have no understanding of the financing structures and commercial rationale when it comes to lease v buy, it has nothing to do with long term accountability. But to be fair, why would you? You're not an expert in this area, it's unreasonable to expect you to understand the technical details. Yet for some reason we expect politicians to make all these complex decisions. Like Grayling, who has spent his whole career in media and politics so clearly has no background in transport. What I imagine (and hope) is that cabinet ministers do not get involved in rail timetables and ferry contracts, because they have no expertise to provide, instead this is handled by civil servants (who aren't labour or tory) who have some knowledge. Of course the civil servants usually Frak it up because that's the public sector, but at least they can blame it on the politician.

Ah yes, because the private sector is soooo good . Dogma at its worst.

It's really easy to make a public sector service look bad...cut the funding. Then cut it some more, then do it again. Then privatise and subsidise...and end up spending more money on a crap service. How on earth we got to a situation where private companies mange our prisons is beyond me (could even be a Blair idea), how on earth can you be looking to give that kind of responsibility to companies looking to make a profit. I'm sure, just like our new potential ferry service, that some of them hadn't ran prisons before, but their proposal looked good (cheap) on paper.
We have overseas companies running our water supplies - whilst being found guilty of deliberately polluting waste straight back into the system and being fined huge amounts as a result - making millions for their shareholders. Great logic.
 

Yeah, because British Gas, British Telecom, British Steel, British Rail etc were all fantastic under Public Ownership weren't they? Public companies have zero incentive to innovate, provide a good service or be efficient. Our modern day equivalent is the NHS. Doing brilliantly isn't it? No.

Fixed mindset. Because it didn’t work before (just as it doesn’t work now) it can never work. Blinkered. Short sighted. And again, and try and take this in this time...we’ve had state run rail lines run efficiently and profitably very recently. Do you understand that? Yes, here, in this country, state ran trains on state owned track.
It’s actually hard to tell what parts of the NHS are actually state ran these days, the massive over complication of it has hardly helped. If all of it was privatised Christ knows how pathetic it would become.

[beninho]

The nhs is doing brilliantly, when you take how its controlled into account. My mums about to start chemo and I won't here a bad word afainst them, especially after sge went through a major op a year ago.

Train franchises have lost licenses and gone bankrupt but tge argument is whatabout British rail.

Whataboutry is such a lazy argument.

[Diggers]

Local authorities are (including Tory led ones) dumping outsourcing at a rapid rate, realising how many firms are just after a quick buck for a poor service. Staff are often treated badly as well. Proving to be far more effective to manage and run in house.

[beninho]

I rarely watch football on tv, but this is a good game!

[Diggers]

Cracking match. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player put a shift in like Bernardo Silva did today, he was like the Duracell Bunny on acid, Pep has taken him on a notch. Right side won on the night, title race back on.

[kwinigolfer]

Helluva game, One Silva superb, the other scarcely got into the game. Liverpool not quite at their best but will probably feel unlucky not to get a point.

Thought Anthony Taylor had a really good game.

[Diggers]

Yeah, you’re right, Kwini, ref did well under a lot of pressure. Kompany could have had a yellow on another day but it would have been harsh IMO. David Silva really did miss most of the match, surprising for him.
Love atmospheres like that, real cup tie feel. I’m sure it will be the same at the Valley on Sunday...

[kwinigolfer]

"at the Valley on Sunday . . . " - just a pity it's not a Cup-tie (sorry about that . . . . . !)

[Diggers]

And it’s Saturday! Yep, no cup run for us, Bournemouth v Brighton should be a good game.

[super_realist]

I think you are cutting him far too much slack. From what I’ve seen existing companies are very bemused as to why a decision like this would be made at such a crucial time. It’s not a situation that requires a cheapest option, promise the world with no experience to back it up, solution. Very few companies own their own transport, same with the train rolling stock, it’s all leased...which is part of the whole lack of long term accountability issue we have.
I wouldn’t trust the bloke to refuel my car properly.

The bit in bold demonstrates you have no understanding of the financing structures and commercial rationale when it comes to lease v buy, it has nothing to do with long term accountability. But to be fair, why would you? You're not an expert in this area, it's unreasonable to expect you to understand the technical details. Yet for some reason we expect politicians to make all these complex decisions. Like Grayling, who has spent his whole career in media and politics so clearly has no background in transport. What I imagine (and hope) is that cabinet ministers do not get involved in rail timetables and ferry contracts, because they have no expertise to provide, instead this is handled by civil servants (who aren't labour or tory) who have some knowledge. Of course the civil servants usually Frak it up because that's the public sector, but at least they can blame it on the politician.

Ah yes, because the private sector is soooo good . Dogma at its worst.

It's really easy to make a public sector service look bad...cut the funding. Then cut it some more, then do it again. Then privatise and subsidise...and end up spending more money on a crap service. How on earth we got to a situation where private companies mange our prisons is beyond me (could even be a Blair idea), how on earth can you be looking to give that kind of responsibility to companies looking to make a profit. I'm sure, just like our new potential ferry service, that some of them hadn't ran prisons before, but their proposal looked good (cheap) on paper.
We have overseas companies running our water supplies - whilst being found guilty of deliberately polluting waste straight back into the system and being fined huge amounts as a result - making millions for their shareholders. Great logic.
 

Yeah, because British Gas, British Telecom, British Steel, British Rail etc were all fantastic under Public Ownership weren't they? Public companies have zero incentive to innovate, provide a good service or be efficient. Our modern day equivalent is the NHS. Doing brilliantly isn't it? No.

Fixed mindset. Because it didn’t work before (just as it doesn’t work now) it can never work. Blinkered. Short sighted. And again, and try and take this in this time...we’ve had state run rail lines run efficiently and profitably very recently. Do you understand that? Yes, here, in this country, state ran trains on state owned track.
It’s actually hard to tell what parts of the NHS are actually state ran these days, the massive over complication of it has hardly helped. If all of it was privatised Christ knows how pathetic it would become.

What reason is there to think it would? How can anyone, private or public make a 21st Century demand work on Victorian 19th and 20th century infrastructure? British Rail was CHRONIC in the past. I remember as a child rolling stock carriages from the 60's when I was young. Taking it public isn't going to make it affordable all of a sudden, nor run on time, nor guarantee a seat.

We have also had PRIVATELY run rail franchises run efficiently and profitably recently too, but it's not common or the norm either Private or Public, so try looking at both sides of the coin for a change. It seems you just get up every morning, look at a note on your fridge that reminds you that you must criticise the government at whatever point you can (but actually doing nothing about it), and completely ignore just how useless and incompetent your own government of choice was when they were in power, and make stupid statements like "well it might not happen again".

I'm not a Tory or a Labour supporter, if something deserves clog, it will get it, but if anyone is being short sighted and on a fixed mindset it is you. You're like a broken record with your fixation on being critical of the current government but stutter and stammer when it comes to remembering just how bad things were under Labour or under public ownership.

As for the NHS, I think some sort of privatisation would benefit it. There is so much wastage due to people not turning up to appointments for a start, not to mention the NHS paying the cost of a prescription for 10p medicine. Things like Ibuprofen should not be handed out on prescription on the NHS.  THe drugs market should also be more open instead of this "quasi"(like that Mac) state sponsored Chemist like Boots. A flat fee either at the point of delivery, or deducted from salary  wouldn't be a bad start. Similar to what happens in other countries where their health systems are far more efficient and timeous.

[beninho]

You previously had your rant about the nhs and prescriptions, so no point going over old ground. But I would be interested in the systems used in the countries you think we should be more like. Can you give some information on these, as I would like to know what is different and what makes them better in your opinion. Thanks

[beninho]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/03/brexit-freight-ferry-firm-appears-all-geared-up-to-deliver-pizzas

I also read the company is listed with £66 worth os assets.

[raycastleunited]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/03/brexit-freight-ferry-firm-appears-all-geared-up-to-deliver-pizzas

I also read the company is listed with £66 worth os assets.

This ferry firm is dead now.

Apart from the intense media scrutiny (check your food orders) what's going to happen when they try and buy anything? No one will touch them with a barge pole unless they pay double.

[raycastleunited]

Cracking match. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player put a shift in like Bernardo Silva did today, he was like the Duracell Bunny on acid, Pep has taken him on a notch. Right side won on the night, title race back on.

Great game.

- Fernandinho and B Silva immense.
- Very quiet night for Salah/Firmino/Mane, although they still created chances - credit to City for suffocating them.
- Liverpool full backs fantastic.
- Sterling so so dangerous, but finishing like he's wearing an England shirt. He really looks short of confidence in front of goal.
- Ref did well.
- Best crowd I've heard at the Etihad (unless Sky sound engineers cranked up the volume).
- Lescott out of his depth in the studio up against Souness and co.

[beninho]

Trent aa looks a quality player, great potential, full back is such an.important position now, its about goibg firward as much as backwards for tge best teams.

[raycastleunited]

Trent aa looks a quality player, great potential, full back is such an.important position now, its about goibg firward as much as backwards for tge best teams.

Agree. It's not a new phenomenon - rampaging full backs have always caught the imagination: Carlos Alberto, Nelinho, Roberto Carlos, Cafu, and er Stuart Pearce. But now it is essential not a bonus.

Trippier was England's best player at the WC but is now prob 3rd choice with Trent AA coming through.

[beninho]

Bombing full backs used to stand out due to how they played, especially the Brazilians, but still got the comments about not being good defensively. Its a stand out at Mufc under Jose, how he didn't allow the full backs on, I think that showed his philosophy to be a bit in the past.

[Roller_Coaster]

One of the best games I've ever seen last night. Credit to both teams. I thought the starting midfields were where it would be won or lost. Henderson, Milner and Wijnaldum (sorry if it's spellded wrong) looked weaker than Silva, Silva and Fernandinho and that's what I think turned it. Back 5's on both sides pretty equal on paper as were the front 3's. Although Sane, Aguero and Sterling were more effective (probably due to the platform provided by those behind) than Salah, Mane and Firminho who were quiet (and almost non-existant for swathes of the game in Mane and Firminho's cases).

Thought Robertson and Alexander Arnold were good (especially as I thought Sterling and Sane were mostly brilliant going forward) great link up for the equaliser, which tore City apart (just after the midfield was bolstered...).

For the Stones haters, I thought he played well. Quick, accurate ball playing most of the time and solid defensively.

Thoroughly enjoyed it all.

[Roller_Coaster]

Oh and I meant spellded btw

[Diggers]

I thought the full back issue was interesting last night. City went old school, by and large their full backs sat to create a solid back four, thought Kompany and Stones were excellent, Stones really is a Rolls Royce of a defender.
When City played well both Liverpool full backs looked weak defending, especially AA who really had a mad couple of minutes. Then, when the dynamic changed, fair play to both guys, they were the catalyst for Liverpool playing well. AA really can pass a ball well, pin point accuracy. Robertson was done for pace a couple of times, not that he's slow but Sterling is super rapid when he turns it on, but really does give everything and has improved immensely under Klopp.
Top match, shame that's it in the league for this season. Hopefully they'll meet again in the Champions League.

[navyblueshorts]

I thought the full back issue was interesting last night. City went old school, by and large their full backs sat to create a solid back four, thought Kompany and Stones were excellent, Stones really is a Rolls Royce of a defender.
When City played well both Liverpool full backs looked weak defending, especially AA who really had a mad couple of minutes. Then, when the dynamic changed, fair play to both guys, they were the catalyst for Liverpool playing well. AA really can pass a ball well, pin point accuracy. Robertson was done for pace a couple of times, not that he's slow but Sterling is super rapid when he turns it on, but really does give everything and has improved immensely under Klopp.
Top match, shame that's it in the league for this season. Hopefully they'll meet again in the Champions League.

Think TA-A will be a long-term midfielder, rather than defender.

[I'm never wrong]

A home draw against Stoke for the mighty Shrews. Does that count as a good result? Not sure. Don’t know if it will be a money spinner away.
Posted in the right thread this time.

[Diggers]

Cracking game at the the Valley today, fair result in the end. My feet were seriously cold walking back to the car!

[kwinigolfer]

Good result too Digs - haven't been to the Valley since it was a glorified bomb site.

With the new FA Cup TV deal we can stream every game. But sadly missed the Shrews.

[Diggers]

Was a great atmosphere there, Kwini, only about two thirds full but much livelier than the crowd at the Amex over Xmas.
Great result for your boys, don’t think anyone would relish a trip to you...and I’m happy to see you with a cup distraction!

[beninho]

I have read that O'Nien is starting to impress the fans now and scored yesterday. Great little player with a brilliant attitude. Glad he left us fir a decent sized club.

[Diggers]

He was given a real hard time yesterday Ben, their number 9, Taylor is a real handful and targeted him, he just about held his own though. Watmore got a run out for 30 mins, missed a good chance to win it for us but could make a difference if he can stay fit.

[dynamark]

Hi folks be interesting to see this NHS plan tomorrow .Ive had a bit of experience last few years and overall very good but you see some very inefficient things along with some excellent
Remember we do pay NI formerly NHI for older viewers but I have to say the key has to be prevention and personal responsibilty. NHS and GP waiting rooms are full of folk who are overweight and don't look after themselves but our system treats everyone as pretty much equal.
Back to football my son is seeing a young lady whos father is one Nigel Spink European cup winner with Villa and various other clubs and jobs .Now makes a living driving a delivery van.
Different times and rewards.

[Diggers]

Poor old Rotherham, turn up and have to face a side (and subs) like that. Sterling’s movement for the first goal was unreal, not a bad finish either.
I remember watching Spink in that match, the highlight of his career by far, right at the start of it. Turned into a decent pro though.

[Diggers]

Leicester join the exit list, fair play Newport, what was Albrighton (who was City’s best player by a mile) thinking? Crazy.

[westisbest]

Poor old Rotherham, turn up and have to face a side (and subs) like that. Sterling’s movement for the first goal was unreal, not a bad finish either.
I remember watching Spink in that match, the highlight of his career by far, right at the start of it. Turned into a decent pro though.

Spink was a quality keeper.
Looong time ago now the glory days at villa sadly.

[super_realist]

Hi folks be interesting to see this NHS plan tomorrow .Ive had a bit of experience last few years and overall very good but you see some very inefficient things along with some excellent
Remember we do pay NI formerly NHI for older viewers but I have to say the key has to be prevention and personal responsibilty. NHS and GP waiting rooms are full of folk who are overweight and  don't look after themselves but our system treats everyone as pretty much equal.
Back to football my son is seeing a young lady whos father is one Nigel Spink European cup winner with Villa and various other clubs and jobs .Now makes a living driving a delivery van.
Different times and rewards.

We live in a time when people are looking to absolve themselves of personal responsibility unfortunately. Only the other day they started referring to obesity as a disease.
This lack of personal responsibility is absolutely crippling the NHS, but as usual, people blame successive governments rather than the actual people placing strain on the system.
The NHS spends £25,000 on Diabates PER MINUTE. Most of which is entirely preventable. People claim they "don't have time to exercise" or "can't afford to eat well" is just complete Love sacks.

[Be_the_ball]

Back to football my son is seeing a young lady whos father is one Nigel Spink European cup winner with Villa and various other clubs and jobs .Now makes a living driving a delivery van.
Different times and rewards.

Personally this type of story makes me a bit sick, there should be a % of prem & c'ship transfer fees put into a fund for ex players. I was very impressed with the QPR fans Stan Bowles fundraising etc, but it shouldn't be up to fans to do this imo. The stage modern players play on today was built by these guys.

[westisbest]

In thought Spink was a goal keeping coach at WBA.
Didn’t realise he was a driving a van for a living.

[super_realist]

Back to football my son is seeing a young lady whos father is one Nigel Spink European cup winner with Villa and various other clubs and jobs .Now makes a living driving a delivery van.
Different times and rewards.

Personally this type of story makes me a bit sick, there should be a % of prem & c'ship transfer fees put into a fund for ex players. I was very impressed with the QPR fans Stan Bowles fundraising etc, but it shouldn't be up to fans to do this imo. The stage modern players play on today was built by these guys.

Spink would have earned a lot of money in his career. Is it really the leagues responsibility to have a benevolent fund for people who didn't manage their money very well?
I think it's a good idea for people in the lower leagues who won't have earned very much, but I doubt Spink was in that category.

Nothing wrong with someone driving a van for a living just because their previously more illustrious career came to an end. They don't have a right to live high on the hog just because they used to earn a lot of money. Plenty players from that era doing similar.

[Davie]

460 appearances for Villa during the 80s and early 90s including a Eurpopean cup winner's medal and you think he's on the breadline?

If you'd said the same thing about a player from the 50s or 60s I may agree - but not someone as relatively high profile as him

[Diggers]

Would imagine he got a nice testimonial lump sum as well. I’d guess they are given financial advice and have the option to lump cash into a pension fund. Maybe he just likes driving a van! Super Clive Mendonca is apparently working at the Nissan factory up in Sunderland, shame he never got to play for us as a local lad.

[Diggers]

Love watching this Wolves side play, so slick. Randomly first picture of me in a football kit (about 5 years old) is in a Wolves one. Mum, who would have bought it and is a Mackem through and through, can’t remember why.

[Be_the_ball]

I didn't say he was on the breadline or there was something wrong with driving a van. It reminded me of Stan Bowles, and how people can end up in that situation and the only safety net is the generosity of fans.

[super_realist]

Indeed Diggers, problem with many footballers is they're not very well educated, they haven't got any skills, and many have never had to do anything for themselves. I don't think we should feel sorry for them at all, especially players who have been at the top.

The players who might need this sort of fund are those who have been injured badly ending their career whilst simultaneously never having earned much in the first place.

Another thing about football, and specifically their training regime is that they have bags of time on their hands. Plenty examples of players doing degrees in their spare time. If you end up driving a van, and are unhappy doing it, it's probably a lack of foresight combined with a lack of effort into preparing for life after football.

Apparently a Championship player can earn 80k a week, A league one player £2500 a week and a League 2 player £1500 a week. Hard to feel sorry for players on that money.

[beninho]

Think the first kit I got was an Aston Villa mita copiers kit from the late 80s. No idea why.

Anyway, seems spink owns his own company https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjDyK3Y19zfAhWkThUIHZedCWcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.birminghampost.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fformer-aston-villa-ace-nigel-4724970&psig=AOvVaw1aqb-M-7Ke46oJbFgmlR3j&ust=1546985360518376

[kwinigolfer]

Indeed Diggers, problem with many footballers is they're not very well educated, they haven't got any skills, and many have never had to do anything for themselves. I don't think we should feel sorry for them at all, especially players who have been at the top.

The players who might need this sort of fund are those who have been injured badly ending their career whilst simultaneously never having earned much in the first place.

Another thing about football, and specifically their training regime is that they have bags of time on their hands. Plenty examples of players doing degrees in their spare time. If you end up driving a van, and are unhappy doing it, it's probably a lack of foresight combined with a lack of effort into preparing for life after football.

Apparently a Championship player can earn 80k a week, A league one player £2500 a week and a League 2 player £1500 a week. Hard to feel sorry for players on that money.

super,
That's all very well but hundreds of players in dire straights created the wealth that many clubs now have and upon which extraordinary wages are bestowed to players, in many cases with not half the skills or accomplishments.
I don't see anything wrong with causing "football", clubs, the FA, to establish financial safety nets from which players' families can draw if necessary. It seems pretty heartless that this wasn't put in place a generation or two ago. The Jeff Astle loss should have woken people up, if nothing before his death did.
Just read a two-year-old piece about Stanley Bowles, a marvellous player and entertainer (you couldn't watch him play without a smile on your face, just like many Scots of your father's vintage); it seems heartbreaking until one realises that dozens, probably hundreds, are in even worse shape, financial as well as health.

[pedro]

Think the first kit I got was an Aston Villa mita copiers kit from the late 80s. No idea why.

Anyway, seems spink owns his own company  https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjDyK3Y19zfAhWkThUIHZedCWcQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.birminghampost.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fformer-aston-villa-ace-nigel-4724970&psig=AOvVaw1aqb-M-7Ke46oJbFgmlR3j&ust=1546985360518376

“S&M Couriers”? I wonder what’s inside the van..

[super_realist]

Indeed Diggers, problem with many footballers is they're not very well educated, they haven't got any skills, and many have never had to do anything for themselves. I don't think we should feel sorry for them at all, especially players who have been at the top.

The players who might need this sort of fund are those who have been injured badly ending their career whilst simultaneously never having earned much in the first place.

Another thing about football, and specifically their training regime is that they have bags of time on their hands. Plenty examples of players doing degrees in their spare time. If you end up driving a van, and are unhappy doing it, it's probably a lack of foresight combined with a lack of effort into preparing for life after football.

Apparently a Championship player can earn 80k a week, A league one player £2500 a week and a League 2 player £1500 a week. Hard to feel sorry for players on that money.

super,
That's all very well but hundreds of players in dire straights created the wealth that many clubs now have and upon which extraordinary wages are bestowed to players, in many cases with not half the skills or accomplishments.
I don't see anything wrong with causing "football", clubs, the FA, to establish financial safety nets from which players' families can draw if necessary. It seems pretty heartless that this wasn't put in place a generation or two ago. The Jeff Astle loss should have woken people up, if nothing before his death did.
Just read a two-year-old piece about Stanley Bowles, a marvellous player and entertainer (you couldn't watch him play without a smile on your face, just like many Scots of your father's vintage); it seems heartbreaking until one realises that dozens, probably hundreds, are in even worse shape, financial as well as health.

I'm not sure that's strictly true Kwini, much of the current popularity of football is due to the aggressive marketing. I don't hear people saying they go to football because they are all dewey eyed because they once saw Geoff Astle or Cyril Regis (not picking on WBA here).
I'm not saying some players don't deserve help, but helping players simply because they don't have a lucrative job anymore isn't really anyone's fault other than themselves.
A friend of mine works with an ex Swindon player who had to quit football, not through injury, but not really making the grade, so he went into Financial Services. Nothing says you have to drive a van or do whatever Mac does for a living.

[JAS]

Indeed Diggers, problem with many footballers is they're not very well educated, they haven't got any skills, and many have never had to do anything for themselves. I don't think we should feel sorry for them at all, especially players who have been at the top.

The players who might need this sort of fund are those who have been injured badly ending their career whilst simultaneously never having earned much in the first place.

Another thing about football, and specifically their training regime is that they have bags of time on their hands. Plenty examples of players doing degrees in their spare time. If you end up driving a van, and are unhappy doing it, it's probably a lack of foresight combined with a lack of effort into preparing for life after football.

Apparently a Championship player can earn 80k a week, A league one player £2500 a week and a League 2 player £1500 a week. Hard to feel sorry for players on that money.

super,
That's all very well but hundreds of players in dire straights created the wealth that many clubs now have and upon which extraordinary wages are bestowed to players, in many cases with not half the skills or accomplishments.
I don't see anything wrong with causing "football", clubs, the FA, to establish financial safety nets from which players' families can draw if necessary. It seems pretty heartless that this wasn't put in place a generation or two ago. The Jeff Astle loss should have woken people up, if nothing before his death did.
Just read a two-year-old piece about Stanley Bowles, a marvellous player and entertainer (you couldn't watch him play without a smile on your face, just like many Scots of your father's vintage); it seems heartbreaking until one realises that dozens, probably hundreds, are in even worse shape, financial as well as health.

I'm not sure that's strictly true Kwini, much of the current popularity of football is due to the aggressive marketing. I don't hear people saying they go to football because they are all dewey eyed because they once saw Geoff Astle or Cyril Regis (not picking on WBA here).
I'm not saying some players don't deserve help, but helping players simply because they don't have a lucrative job  anymore isn't really anyone's fault other than themselves.
A friend of mine works with an ex Swindon player who had to quit football, not through injury, but not really making the grade, so he went into Financial Services. Nothing says you have to drive a van or do whatever Mac does for a living.

I think you’re right on this one Super, whilst it seems unjust that some fairly prominent names from yesteryear may have fallen on hard times financially, we now live in a very different era. They stars of the 60s & 70’s if they were smart enough may have been able to buy a pub at the end of their football careers and give themselves a 2nd career as a bar owner. Nowadays, a top player retiring could not only buy the pub but could probably buy every house and shop in the village!! That in itself is not the issue though, it’s not the smart ones we’re talking about, it’s the more intellectually challenged who’ll spend obscene amounts on booze, bookies, hookers & coke and somehow end up financially drained pretty much as their careers end.
Personally I think footballs financial operating model has skewed way beyond normality and it needs a reality check. Football should be about football, not a money laundering facility for dodgy oligarchs. When it goes to the extremes it has, it breeds winners with grotesque wealth and losers who are beyond destitute and because there’s so much money sloshing around, greed and corruption become more prevalent. There’s a significant piece of deflation needs to occur or it’ll all go pop at some point!!

[raycastleunited]

Back to football my son is seeing a young lady whos father is one Nigel Spink European cup winner with Villa and various other clubs and jobs .Now makes a living driving a delivery van.
Different times and rewards.

Personally this type of story makes me a bit sick, there should be a % of prem & c'ship transfer fees put into a fund for ex players. I was very impressed with the QPR fans Stan Bowles fundraising etc, but it shouldn't be up to fans to do this imo. The stage modern players play on today was built by these guys.

I've been stunned by the generosity and love of QPR fans for Stan Bowles, raised over £100k. His role in the successful QPR teams of the 70's still seems fresh in the minds of many.

Personally, I don't get it. I wouldn't expect my former employers, places I worked when I was in my 20's, to stump up to fund me when I retire (apart from contractual pensions). Bowles earned good money, fair enough it's not in the same league as today's pro's, but footballers in the 70's did ok. He just blew it all on gambling and womanising. Even after he retired he had opportunities to earn money, QPR paid him to do hospitality at matches, easy money just to show your face and chat for a few minutes, he was a pundit on sky sports as well.

Although modern footballers are grotesquely overpaid, today's footballers don't owe the likes of Bowles anything. It would be a nice touch if they dipped their hands in their pockets.

[kwinigolfer]

super,
My point being that some former players, clearly Jeff Astle was one, suffered brain damage as a result of his chosen profession. Just as is starting to happen in the NFL & NHL, this is starting to be recognised as an industrial disease that could not reasonably have been anticipated when doing any semblance of financial planning.
Don't know about Bowles or even Regis, but it's not a coincidence that so many one-time heroes are suffering.

[navyblueshorts]

super,
My point being that some former players, clearly Jeff Astle was one, arguably suffered brain damage as a result of his chosen profession. Just as is starting to happen in the NFL & NHL, this is starting to be recognised as an industrial disease that could not reasonably have been anticipated when doing any semblance of financial planning.
Don't know about Bowles or even Regis, but it's not a coincidence that so many one-time heroes are suffering.

[dynamark]

I am more familiar with the ex Leicester players and there are all sorts of trades and careers they are in now.Driving instructor,greengrocer,an ex england player last seen moving trolleys in sainsburys.Some more succesful in business printing , pubs,insurance and a few doing the speaking/appearances gig . Keith Weller(sadly passed away) was driving a minibus out in California in his later days
One guy I play golf with occasionally played hundreds of games and he never ever talks about football now its definitely not on the conversation agenda.

[kwinigolfer]

navy,
Do you question the incidence of CTE in North American Football and Ice Hockey as well?

I imagine that the life expectancy of a footballer (probably rugby too) compared to cricketers, golfers, tennis players of similar ages is shorter. How many live to be 91 like Bill Slater - not too many I bet?

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