Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

On another note I’ve been teaching Spanish as part of my job this year, tricky when I don’t speak a word...or didn’t. Been using Duolingo for 3 weeks, still very early but amazing how quickly it helps you pick things up. Also asked the wife for some CD’s for Xmas to listen to on my commute. There is a Spanish guy who works for the premises team so when I feel a bit more confident Ill try some conversational Spanish with him.
Anyway, early but that’s my new year resolution, to follow it through and at least be competent, partly to help with my job and partly because Uve always wanted to learn a language, partly because I really think learning new stuff keeps your brain fresher.
Anyone else have something they really want to learn to do?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here Diggers, but how on earth can a school let someone without the skills in a subject to teach it? I can see how someone could blag teaching something like art, PE, English etc, but not a language. I suppose if it's at Primary Level you could teach counting to ten, asking where the railway station is etc.
I presume it's not secondary school?

[beninho]

Bloody busta rhymes

[Collapse2005]

Well even children have to learn about personal responsibility and to take ownership for the decisions they make in life. You are the master of your own ship even if you are always positioned in stormy seas.

You are correct, but talk about missing any nuance, subtleties and influences and how they might influence an impressionable child as they grow up. 14-y/o children don't get to become ships' captains, precisely because they don't have the knowledge or experience to do so. Difficult to make the correct nautical decisions under those circumstances.

Yes. Its sad when a young life is lost.

[pedro]

When the ship is rotten from the shipyard you might as well walk the plank.

[Diggers]

Or use the plank to make a life raft?

[pedro]

Not if the captain is also a plank.

[Diggers]

Are they able seamen?

[dynamark]

Digs sorry but its nothing to do with your favourite -austerity . Lack of funds Tories etc
You have to ask why kids get into this situation not how to then get them out of it. We cannot help everyone some are going to fail badly.
We all get a number of choices as we grow up and some take the wrong route and pay a price .Drugs business is huge money and on the other side violent and no limits if this is where this ends up.

[Diggers]

I honestly have no idea what you are saying, Dyna. Is that community support groups don’t work (you’d be wrong) or that even if they do we shouldn’t bother with them...because some people are bad.
Your solution to everything, unless I’m missing something, is to do nothing and hope everything turns out OK. Good luck with that.

[Diggers]

And the NHS reforms you wanted to see were missing something...costings...you know those things they keep saying Labour don’t have...though they actually do. They’d already been delayed once for the same reason, you don’t have to be a genius to see why they were rushed out this week. Political show boating of a no substance policy.
I’m not a fan of Bercow but he was completely bang on yesterday. Ledson and May getting a taste of their own medicine.

[pedro]

I’d say, make the government the drug dealer. Let doctors prescribe hard drugs to addicts (like in Switzerland) and set the ganja free like in NL and other places.

If it turns out it doesn’t work, we can give back the market to the gangsters and let them continue their regime of violence.

As we can see from all over the world the demand for drugs will remain, community support groups or not, and so hence will the supply.

[kwinigolfer]

And then do the "gangsters" for tax evasion?

[super_realist]

I'm interested in his use of the word "another". So we clearly have multiple scrotes, according to Super. Do you just have to be stabbed or murdered? Young? Living in London? Male? Black? He's obviously making a classification.
Another point is that Super only think he deserved "a good kicking". This from a man who is happy to malign the punishments dished out by certain Islamic states, yet clearly believes violence is a suitable and acceptable punishment.
Also the comment about people being "dewy-eyed"? I've seen no sign of that, the topic was clearly raised on here to illicit a response from people who had probably only given it brief consideration. I'd imagine Super has been desperately hoping someone would mention the kid's (yep, a 14 year old child) ethnicity. Absolutely desperate.
Personally, I'm increasingly with Navy, the lack of any kind of ability to emote or sympathize/empathize, more obviously just not have the ability to comprehend why others might...asperger's.

Are you seriously trying to compare the treatment of people in Islamic countries who are punished for actually committing no crime whatsoever with a young ne'er do well getting a bit of a kick in for being a scrote? Good grief Diggers, I've heard some absolute nonsense from you but that takes the biscuit.

Would you prefer that he was hugged by David Cameron?

I don't have to emphasise or sympathise with his unfortunate predicament, I was talking about how the story is reported and why the circumstances were not reported in much depth, not about him actually being killed, which is a shame for him and his so called family, but no skin off my nose or yours. Dozens of people are killed in this country every day, I doubt you spend much time to sympathise with them.

[super_realist]

Super

So posh boys in fife can ride mopeds in the fields but kids in London can't mess about on one down a quiet street without deserving a beating?  What is the logic behind that?


And what a strange point to try and make, why did you read that story and think I better make it clear that the kid deserved some level of violence against him?




Also the Kit Carson thing, alleged... really?

Who said it was a quiet street Mac? Furthermore, even if the street had no cars on, which it clearly didn't, it's also the fact he's uninsured, has no licence, is disturbing the residents and putting the public at risk. There was none of that when I rode, as for being posh, how the hell did you come to that conclusion?

I didn't say the kid deserved to be stabbed, I said at most he deserved a kick in, because not like the police are going to do anything about it. There's nothing else which would help keep him in line is there? What would you suggest?

Yes, Carson was charged but because he topped himself, never convicted, hence the alleged. I know you are short on education, but that's the stance you have to take. I brought it up because in that case, his background was rightly raised in reporting his death, but virtually nothing has been said about the background of the stabbed scrote, except his family conveniently saying that there "son is not involved in gangs", because of course we all know that families always know what their 14 year olds are up to don't they?

[Diggers]

I'm interested in his use of the word "another". So we clearly have multiple scrotes, according to Super. Do you just have to be stabbed or murdered? Young? Living in London? Male? Black? He's obviously making a classification.
Another point is that Super only think he deserved "a good kicking". This from a man who is happy to malign the punishments dished out by certain Islamic states, yet clearly believes violence is a suitable and acceptable punishment.
Also the comment about people being "dewy-eyed"? I've seen no sign of that, the topic was clearly raised on here to illicit a response from people who had probably only given it brief consideration. I'd imagine Super has been desperately hoping someone would mention the kid's (yep, a 14 year old child) ethnicity. Absolutely desperate.
Personally, I'm increasingly with Navy, the lack of any kind of ability to emote or sympathize/empathize, more obviously just not have the ability to comprehend why others might...asperger's.

Are you seriously trying to compare the treatment of people in Islamic countries who are punished for actually committing no crime whatsoever with a young ne'er do well getting a bit of a kick in for being a scrote? Good grief Diggers, I've heard some absolute nonsense from you but that takes the biscuit.

Would you prefer that he was hugged by David Cameron?

I don't have to emphasise or sympathise with his unfortunate predicament, I was talking about how the story is reported and why the circumstances were not reported in much depth, not about him actually being killed, which is a shame for him and his so called family, but no skin off my nose or yours. Dozens of people are killed in this country every day, I doubt you spend much time to sympathise with them.

No you’re right. What I don’t do however, is try to provoke an argument about their death by insulting them.

[beninho]

I may be wrong but nothing has been released by the police that the kid was involved in gangs. While it is a possibility or even a likelihood its hard to blame the press for not reporting what they don't know, though I've seen the mail mention he was caught up in drug dealiing.

Personaly, I don't think he deserved even a beating and its horrendous that he was brutally murdered. How 6 months in an area this could have happened.

[raycastleunited]

What all of these situations come back to is why do they happen and what is the best way to stop them happening. The idea of prevention rather than cure applies to social as well as medical problems. That being the case you have to ask what is in place to support the community groups that set out to try and change the lives of these kinds of kids. Unfortunately, because of austerity any funding for these kind of support centres (youth centres, boxing clubs) has just disappeared. Even if the problems could be solved with more of an authoritarian approach, the police just don't have the resources.  
Hard to see things improving anytime soon.

That's right, blame the government, blame Cameron

In this case it's been reported that the boy was well known to social services and was receiving support from social worker and also attended a boxing club. In fact it sounds like the social worker was very active and knew him well (that could just be spin). Even with an unlimited budget you can't expect the nanny state to be ever present and chaperoning 60 million people wherever they go.

[Diggers]

What all of these situations come back to is why do they happen and what is the best way to stop them happening. The idea of prevention rather than cure applies to social as well as medical problems. That being the case you have to ask what is in place to support the community groups that set out to try and change the lives of these kinds of kids. Unfortunately, because of austerity any funding for these kind of support centres (youth centres, boxing clubs) has just disappeared. Even if the problems could be solved with more of an authoritarian approach, the police just don't have the resources.  
Hard to see things improving anytime soon.

That's right, blame the government, blame Cameron

In this case it's been reported that the boy was well known to social services and was receiving support from social worker and also attended a boxing club. In fact it sounds like the social worker was very active and knew him well (that could just be spin). Even with an unlimited budget you can't expect the nanny state to be ever present and chaperoning 60 million people wherever they go.

I'm saying that support groups for communities are being cut massively, in lots of areas? Simple questions, is this untrue and do you think these groups have no effect?

[Diggers]

What all of these situations come back to is why do they happen and what is the best way to stop them happening. The idea of prevention rather than cure applies to social as well as medical problems. That being the case you have to ask what is in place to support the community groups that set out to try and change the lives of these kinds of kids. Unfortunately, because of austerity any funding for these kind of support centres (youth centres, boxing clubs) has just disappeared. Even if the problems could be solved with more of an authoritarian approach, the police just don't have the resources.  
Hard to see things improving anytime soon.

That's right, blame the government, blame Cameron

In this case it's been reported that the boy was well known to social services and was receiving support from social worker and also attended a boxing club. In fact it sounds like the social worker was very active and knew him well (that could just be spin). Even with an unlimited budget you can't expect the nanny state to be ever present and chaperoning 60 million people wherever they go.

I'm saying that support groups for communities are being cut massively, in lots of areas? Simple questions, is this untrue and do you think these groups have no effect?

Added to that I've also said funding for community policing has been slashed massively. Is that untrue? Do the police commissioners see that as a problem for them? Is having an effective police force also part of a nanny state?

[Diggers]

I suppose she's only one of the most important and respected police officers in the country, what does she know eh? Probably just some kind of project fear, nanny state nonsense.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/may/18/metropolitan-police-cressida-dick-budget-cuts-violent-crime-rise-london

[navyblueshorts]

Digs sorry but its nothing to do with your favourite -austerity . Lack of funds Tories etc
You have to ask why kids get into this situation not how to then get them out of it. We cannot help everyone some are going to fail badly.
We all get a number of choices as we grow up and some take the wrong route and pay a price .Drugs business is huge money and on the other side  violent  and no limits  if this is where this ends up.

Odd. You (and others) are talking as if all children grow up in a vacuum, with no external influences whatsoever, and are expected to make all the right choices on their own without any malign influence.

[pedro]

We have been taught for centuries that we are born sinners. So why not ride the wave?

[McLaren]

Pedro

Haven't Portugal totally freed up their drug laws to great success? I am not sure how serious you were in your post about the doctors dealing the drugs but I actually agree with you on the principle.

[McLaren]

Who said it was a quiet street Mac? Furthermore, even if the street had no cars on, which it clearly didn't, it's also the fact he's uninsured, has no licence, is disturbing the residents and putting the public at risk. There was none of that when I rode, as for being posh, how the hell did you come to that conclusion?

I will not repeat it in case you no longer wish it to be public knowledge but you once revealed what your parents jobs were when you were growing up.



Also what is this weird getting "a kick in" form of justice you have come up with? Who administers it?

[McLaren]

PS Super

Diggers comparison to your critique of Islamic state is more than worthy. You seem dislike beating people as a form of justice in one country but are ok with it being used against young black people in London who step slightly out of line?


Then again you wouldn't be the first new atheist to care deeply about the rights of women being beaten by brown guys but not give a toss about the rights of women in your own back yard.

[Davie]

PS Super

Diggers comparison to your critique of Islamic state is more than worthy.  You seem dislike beating people as a form of justice in one country but are ok with it being used against young black people in London who step slightly out of line?

There you go - bringing colour into it again

[pedro]

Pedro

Haven't Portugal totally freed up their drug laws to great success?  I am not sure how serious you were in your post about the doctors dealing the drugs but I actually agree with you on the principle.

I am serious. I don't know all the details of how they do it in other countries. I can just say that we need to try something different and we seem to have little to lose. Why is it society is taken hostage and communities are made into war zones because govt wants to protect people from themselves (by making it illegal)?

Obvioulsy for hard drugs it should be combined with some kind of rehabbing scheme.

For softer drugs like marijuana, well you may create the odd new new pothead, but that's a fair price to pay taken into consideration the amount of violence, crime and unsafety associated with status quo. And lets not forget how positive the business case would look: tax money, costs for prisons, police etc.

[McLaren]

Pedro

Haven't you heard, just give the blighters a slight "kick in" and they'll be fine.

[navyblueshorts]

Pedro

Haven't Portugal totally freed up their drug laws to great success?  I am not sure how serious you were in your post about the doctors dealing the drugs but I actually agree with you on the principle.

I am serious. I don't know all the details of how they do it in other countries. I can just say that we need to try something different and we seem to have little to lose. Why is it society is taken hostage and communities are made into war zones because govt wants to protect people from themselves (by making it illegal)?

Obvioulsy for hard drugs it should be combined with some kind of rehabbing scheme.

For softer drugs like marijuana, well you may create the odd new new pothead, but that's a fair price to pay taken into consideration the amount of violence, crime and unsafety associated with status quo. And lets not forget how positive the business case would look: tax money, costs for prisons, police etc.

I could imagine this might work if implemented well (yeah, when did a Government ever implement anything well?) as, after all, who gives a damn if people want to **** up their own essential id. Only if law enforcement has access to a robust, cheap and easy drug tester, in the same fashion as the breathalyser. Would need to be available to employers too. Might want to investigate everyone buying to sign a waiver re. future health issues if they come to light. Any rehab scheme at addicts expense.

Out of interest, where would you draw the line on state drugs? Heroin? Coke? Meth? Crack? Not sure I'd want legal use of the latter two, or any others like them. What about things like propofol or fentanyl? Not sure it's a good idea self-medicating on either of those. What about current 'legal (although not so much anymore) highs' ?

Certainly, the so-called 'War on Drugs' hasn't really worked, so definitely some newer thinking needed, but it's pretty complex.

[dynamark]

Guys a 'community' boxing club or youth club is not likely to make much difference in this case.
Pretty sure we will see more in the next few days and the lad had to be on the wrong side of the track.Shame but it happens and I have it first hand with my son.A real good kicking ,debt,prison and well brought up no obvious reason other than bad decisions and trying to make some easy money/be a big shot.
NHS will spend every penny and more we put its way some great stuff and some poor .Somewhere we have to set budgets and manage situations but we all have to look after ourselves better.The fat guy at the pub who buys 2 pints at a time because he doesn't want to keep going to the bar and then pitches up at the Gp with diabetes.

[Diggers]

I tell you what won’t help much, doing sweet FA. I watch so many interviews with guys from the wrong side of the tracks saying how grateful they were to some group, AJ is a great example but there are thousands out there.
Re these groups, clubs, whatever, they don’t all wait for kids to approach them, they are outreach groups who go to the bad areas and talk to the kids (most of the people are volunteers who have the same backgrounds and can talk to the kids). They have a direct impact that definitely changes lives. The kid who died wasn’t a boxing club member but he was about to join one on his home town, after being approached by an outreach volunteer, but ended up moving instead.
I just really can’t get my head around the idea that someone can have the view that you can’t change outcomes, it’s almost like some bizarre religious “what will be will be” cult.

[McLaren]

Dyna

Maybe the right wing home environment instilled faulty goals for your son.

[Be_the_ball]

You are some clown McLaren.

[dynamark]

Oooh Mac that's a little bit too far even for you.If youd like to post your address Ill come round and have a little chat.
I'm not right any wing or religious wing I'm just hard working individual and believe in give and take and personal responsibility.We have a society that has plenty of room in it for all.
My son got what he deserved for his stupid behaviour and mistaken ideas.It showed me areas of our society I didn't previously know or understand It wasn't pleasant but he now has a chance to rebuild CRB check holds him back for a long time but Ill keep helping him as far as I can .
Ill keep posting here as long as I feel I can contribute I suggest you take a breath before firing off again

[kwinigolfer]

Watching the Hammers vs Arsenal, it's so difficult to figure out Arsenal could have gone 14 games w/o defeat. Great advertisement in N.London for buying journeyman overseas players at exorbitant prices instead of giving home grown players a chance. And why give Ozil a new contract but don't play him, and then not play Ramsey either? Shambles.

Nasri like finding money for #COYI, on yer bike Arnautovic, ca ching, ca ching.
Hopefully that'll be the start of some goals for Declan Rice, to go with all his other attributes.

Elsewhere, PUP.

[Diggers]

Massive game for the Mackems today. So far so good!

[kwinigolfer]

Massive game for the Mackems today. So far so good!

Imagine you're playing Loot'n on a good day Digs, Hatters must be mad at losing Jones. We need to take our chance vs Blackpool, not happening so far.


EDIT!!!! Oof . . . . . .

[westisbest]

Massive game for the Mackems today. So far so good!

Imagine you're playing Loot'n on a good day Digs, Hatters must be mad at losing Jones. We need to take our chance vs Blackpool, not happening so far.


EDIT!!!! Oof . . . . . .

Can we have green back. Abysmal today.
Long trip home

[beninho]

Great game at adams park, 2.0 down at 74 mins. 3-2 win after a 94th minute goal! Much needed win.

[Diggers]

Cracking result, Ben!

[super_realist]

PS Super

Diggers comparison to your critique of Islamic state is more than worthy.  You seem dislike beating people as a form of justice in one country but are ok with it being used against young black people in London who step slightly out of line?


Then again you wouldn't be the first new atheist to care deeply about the rights of women being beaten by brown guys but not give a toss about the rights of women in your own back yard.

How is it Mac? Islamic State beat for absolutely no reason. Being gay, being a woman not dressed as they like to see them, or being an apostate are not actual crimes.

Where have I said I don't care about women in my own back yard? I've said this kid AT MOST deserved a kick in for being a little scrote. By the way, there's no such thing as a "new atheist". There are only atheists.

[super_realist]

What all of these situations come back to is why do they happen and what is the best way to stop them happening. The idea of prevention rather than cure applies to social as well as medical problems. That being the case you have to ask what is in place to support the community groups that set out to try and change the lives of these kinds of kids. Unfortunately, because of austerity any funding for these kind of support centres (youth centres, boxing clubs) has just disappeared. Even if the problems could be solved with more of an authoritarian approach, the police just don't have the resources.  
Hard to see things improving anytime soon.

That's right, blame the government, blame Cameron

In this case it's been reported that the boy was well known to social services and was receiving support from social worker and also attended a boxing club. In fact it sounds like the social worker was very active and knew him well (that could just be spin). Even with an unlimited budget you can't expect the nanny state to be ever present and chaperoning 60 million people wherever they go.

I'm saying that support groups for communities are being cut massively, in lots of areas? Simple questions, is this untrue and do you think these groups have no effect?

Added to that I've also said funding for community policing has been slashed massively. Is that untrue? Do the police commissioners see that as a problem for them? Is having an effective police force also part of a nanny state?

Murders have been going down in London in trend for over 100 years.

[McLaren]

Super

I am surprised you are not aware of the term "new atheist" being applied to the likes of Harris, Hitchens and Dawkins.

[Diggers]

OGS on a roll, certainly rode their luck today, could/should have been 4-2 on another day. Definitely a revived bunch of players though ...and De Gea in fine form makes a massive difference.
Winnable game at home against Brighton next, enjoy the moment Ollie!

[kwinigolfer]

Spurs miss a physical presence in midfield, especially when Dier is out - no Dembele, no Wanyama and no-one stepping into their role. Wondered if Poch might have thought of putting Sanchez in there when Sissoko was hurt. They'll be stretched even thinner now Son & Sissoko are out.
Good for Ole though.

[Diggers]

Amazing how many people think Dier is crap, agree he’s missed when you don’t have him available. Eriksen wasn’t great today, that said they still dominated the Man Utd midfield in the second half.

[beninho]

See Pompey hsve signed Bryn from the Salop. Good player, we had him for the start of tge season on loan. Looked good.

[kwinigolfer]

Thanks ben,
I checked a couple of hours ago, nothing there, you're on top of things!

I see Wagner has left Oodersfield - seems genuine regret on both sides. Too bad, but hope we'll be playing them next year, maybe with Morris motoring for us.

[beninho]

Getting hudders up was a fantastic achievement, keeping them.up even more so. He shouldn't be tarred by the current position. Very good manager.

[Diggers]

Big, big day in Parliament. Hopefully the May deal is rejected and let’s see where we go from there.

[Collapse2005]

Big, big day in Parliament. Hopefully the May deal is rejected and let’s see where we go from there.

Haha yeah lets see where you go from there.

[Sponsored content]