Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

On another note I’ve been teaching Spanish as part of my job this year, tricky when I don’t speak a word...or didn’t. Been using Duolingo for 3 weeks, still very early but amazing how quickly it helps you pick things up. Also asked the wife for some CD’s for Xmas to listen to on my commute. There is a Spanish guy who works for the premises team so when I feel a bit more confident Ill try some conversational Spanish with him.
Anyway, early but that’s my new year resolution, to follow it through and at least be competent, partly to help with my job and partly because Uve always wanted to learn a language, partly because I really think learning new stuff keeps your brain fresher.
Anyone else have something they really want to learn to do?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here Diggers, but how on earth can a school let someone without the skills in a subject to teach it? I can see how someone could blag teaching something like art, PE, English etc, but not a language. I suppose if it's at Primary Level you could teach counting to ten, asking where the railway station is etc.
I presume it's not secondary school?

[super_realist]

a

With regards to the West bank we can agree. It’s a mess and Israel should pull out.

With regards to “mainland” Israel you should remember that 20% of the population are arabs, with israeli citizenship and equal rights, eg. to vote and form parties. (Only difference in “rights” is that arabs are not drafted for compulsory military service, but they can volunteer if they wish.   .)

Not saying there isn’t defacto discrimination but defo a stretch to pull the nazi card.

Not really, you'd think that a group which suffered so badly at the hands of the Nazis wouldn't act exactly the same by invading and annexing parts of a country they have no right to, that's before you even go into the atrocities they have done in that area and continue to do.

If they want sympathy for their historical plight, they don't exactly do themselves any favours by the way they've acted since 1948, which if any other country did, would result in a war involving other countries coming to the defence of the invaded country. It's not much different to Iraq invading Kuwait.

[navyblueshorts]

Super,
You don’t really get it re. Israel do you? Have you no concept of the historical backstory here?
You can level criticism of the Israeli state re. The West Bank, general behaviour towards the Palestinians, ignoring UN Resolutions etc etc. All of that’s fine and many, me included, would agree with much of it. However, Israel will never, ever, allow the security of Jews to rest in the hands of others again. They don’t care, understandably, about other sensibilities where they feel that Israel might be under threat. You can bang on all you like about perceived Israeli hipocrisy, and I’d agree, but that isn’t going to cut any ice here. If I was a betting man, I’d say they know damned well what they’re doing in the West Bank etc, but they’re banking on it all being a fait accompli before anyone is able to stop it. It’s been made easier for them in the recent past because of tacit U.S. approval for everything they do; something that wasn’t the case 40-50 years ago.
I don’t agree with what the Israeli state does a lot of the time, but I do at least think I understand why they act in this fashion.

[JAS]

Super,
You don’t really get it re. Israel do you? Have you no concept of the historical backstory here?
You can level criticism of the Israeli state re. The West Bank, general behaviour towards the Palestinians, ignoring UN Resolutions etc etc. All of that’s fine and many, me included, would agree with much of it. However, Israel will never, ever, allow the security of Jews to rest in the hands of others again. They don’t care, understandably, about other sensibilities where they feel that Israel might be under threat. You can bang on all you like about perceived Israeli hipocrisy, and I’d agree, but that isn’t going to cut any ice here. If I was a betting man, I’d say they know damned well what they’re doing in the West Bank etc, but they’re banking on it all being a fait accompli before anyone is able to stop it. It’s been made easier for them in the recent past because of tacit U.S. approval for everything they do; something that wasn’t the case 40-50 years ago.
I don’t agree with what the Israeli state does a lot of the time, but I do at least think I understand why they act in this fashion.

Pretty Difficult to disagree with any of that Navy. It’s the old adage that if mankind doesn’t learn from the mistakes of the past then it’s doomed to repeat them. Of course the flip side of that is that the baggage from previous conflicts is the biggest barrier in peace negotiations. Both of those statements can easily be applied in the region. What complicates it and makes matters a helluva lot worse is the complete inability of the US to keep it’s bloody nose out of other people’s business.

[navyblueshorts]

The US has a difficult problem re. Israel as they have a significant Jewish population, who understandably support Israel. Many of them are influential.

I don’t know, but I think there’s going to be at least another 20-30 years before there’s any hope of a solution in that part of the World. Too many of the important Israeli politicians etc are drenched in blood through their own service records in the IDF, Mossad etc and/or they are the surviving children of Nazi WWII atrocities. For them, that history is still too close and they have personal experiences of what it was like.
Will the next generation or so look on things differently? Maybe, but I wouldn’t hold your breath.

[super_realist]

Super,
You don’t really get it re. Israel do you? Have you no concept of the historical backstory here?
You can level criticism of the Israeli state re. The West Bank, general behaviour towards the Palestinians, ignoring UN Resolutions etc etc. All of that’s fine and many, me included, would agree with much of it. However, Israel will never, ever, allow the security of Jews to rest in the hands of others again. They don’t care, understandably, about other sensibilities where they feel that Israel might be under threat. You can bang on all you like about perceived Israeli hipocrisy, and I’d agree, but that isn’t going to cut any ice here. If I was a betting man, I’d say they know damned well what they’re doing in the West Bank etc, but they’re banking on it all being a fait accompli before anyone is able to stop it. It’s been made easier for them in the recent past because of tacit U.S. approval for everything they do; something that wasn’t the case 40-50 years ago.
I don’t agree with what the Israeli state does a lot of the time, but I do at least think I understand why they act in this fashion.

The majority of the reason that Israel is hated the world over is precisely because of the way they act now. I couldn't care less about them trying stop history repeating itself, how is bulldozing Palestinians and their property into the ground and snatching land from people they don't belong going to secure their "people"? It's a ridiculous situation.
It's like saying you understand a knife criminal, because "he's got nothing to do". Israel behaviour is indefensible no matter what the reason is behind it. There's no way their behaviour is securing their future. They're so hated in that region that they even have to play football in European competitions.
Israel, by being an aggressor in the region, are not doing themselves any favours at all.

[pedro]

Being an agressor today, maybe, but it all comes from somebody trying to invade them twice in 6 years. Basically they feel they need a buffer. Should they pull out? Yes. Does it make things better that Palestinian and arab govts still think Israel should be wiped out, no. Does it make things better that religious nutters in Israel feel they have a claim to the west bank, no. But to compare it with Nazi Germany and their various military campaigns, lebensraum or not, is bullocks.

[McLaren]

Super

You seem to be conflating the nation of Israel and the current Israeli government.

[super_realist]

Mac, No I'm not, it's not just the CURRENT government, it's all of them there's ever been. It's the entire post WW2 history of the country.

The nation of Israel was created to give as you say "a safe haven", however everything that the country of Israel has done, (and Israeli's have hardly protested it, so it's not just "the government" has harmed the security of Israel and Israeli's as a country, it's everyone who lives in the West Bank, or anyone who has supported and been part of Israel.

All of Israel and all Israeli's have to take responsibility for the current state of the region, blaming the government constantly is like Diggers hopeless blaming of the Conservative party for everything he sees bad in the UK or like people blaming the government for them being fat. As we keep hearing, Israel is the only democracy in the region, so if their behaviour was deemed so badly, then the people of Israel have to be held responsible for voting in the governments who carry out such policy.

If any other country, or "quasi country" or "jerrymandered country" if you prefer behaved like Israel has, they'd be invaded.

Do they deserve their own country? Questionable, but they've demonstrated they aren't capable of running the state they wanted so much and behaving in a comparative fashion to those who treated them so badly. They're as responsible for their own lack of safety as those attacking them are because they provoke action through their own collective behaviour as a country.

They are hardly helping their own cause are they?

[Diggers]

I don’t just blame this Govt. I never voted for the previous Labour government, I’m not pro the neo liberal agendas and marched against the Iraq invasion. I’ve said that numerous times and, unlike you, try to talk about actual policy failing. You prefer to discuss bad teeth and weight as major failings.
I’m absolutely certain you don’t even understand Universal Credit, and there is a reason. You think anyone who requires it is “ghastly” or “frightful”, therefore in your Rees Mogg mind, why demean yourself by actually understanding a welfare policy?
I genuinely feel sorry for you.

[dynamark]

Cheer up Digs I'm getting depressed.
As it happens I havnt voted at a GE for ages but where I live it doesn't make a deal of difference.
We have a welfare system that generally gives a back up to those who really need it but personal effort and responsibility also required and that Is the issue.

[Diggers]

Big win in Ireland in the rugby. Not a fan of bonus points muddying the waters of a points system. A win is a win in my books, that said it’s is a big extra point given where it’s been earned.
Dyna, you’ve either missed or ignored my question twice, I’ll have another go. Has winning the vote been worth it?

[dynamark]

Hi.I must have missed the question Digs .Presume you are thinking of the referendum vote and my answer would be no issue so far for anyone really it was bit desperate by Cameron to be fair.Next few weeks will be the next test and we will get the real answer in maybe a couple of years .As you may have gathered I'm fairly relaxed about the process and do not see any looming disasters.We;ll see I care for all our futures but again its largely down to the individual.
Anyway Man U at home tomorrow so could round of a good weekend of sport with a result.Im retired again as of Tuesday so I need to hit the golf course

[navyblueshorts]

Super,
You don’t really get it re. Israel do you? Have you no concept of the historical backstory here?
You can level criticism of the Israeli state re. The West Bank, general behaviour towards the Palestinians, ignoring UN Resolutions etc etc. All of that’s fine and many, me included, would agree with much of it. However, Israel will never, ever, allow the security of Jews to rest in the hands of others again. They don’t care, understandably, about other sensibilities where they feel that Israel might be under threat. You can bang on all you like about perceived Israeli hipocrisy, and I’d agree, but that isn’t going to cut any ice here. If I was a betting man, I’d say they know damned well what they’re doing in the West Bank etc, but they’re banking on it all being a fait accompli before anyone is able to stop it. It’s been made easier for them in the recent past because of tacit U.S. approval for everything they do; something that wasn’t the case 40-50 years ago.
I don’t agree with what the Israeli state does a lot of the time, but I do at least think I understand why they act in this fashion.

The majority of the reason that Israel is hated the world over is precisely because of the way they act now. I couldn't care less about them trying stop history repeating itself, how is bulldozing Palestinians and their property into the ground and snatching land from people they don't belong going to secure their "people"? It's a ridiculous situation.
It's like saying you understand a knife criminal, because "he's got nothing to do". Israel behaviour is indefensible no matter what the reason is behind it. There's no way their behaviour is securing their future. They're so hated in that region that they even have to play football in European competitions.
Israel, by being an aggressor in the region, are not doing themselves any favours at all.

Yep. I was right. You don't get it. Never mind.

[navyblueshorts]

Looking good for Sunderland and their investment from Nissan now, isn't it?

[Diggers]

They probably all voted Brexit, Navy. They probably would again. Not a lot you can do with that kind of logic.
Dyna, I was listening to a world trade negotiator explaining the complexities of WTO and why people were utterly deluded about how they thought it would work. He had no axe to grind politically either way, wasn’t British/European, but was utterly incredulous at the tosh being spouted.
Let’s hooe we never find out which of you is correct.

[McLaren]

Super

Given that you normally don't care about injustices and actually seem to have a problem with people who do, why are you so concerned about the welfare of Palestinians?

[westisbest]

Big win in Ireland in the rugby. Not a fan of bonus points muddying the waters of a points system. A win is a win in my books, that said it’s is a big extra point given where it’s been earned.
Dyna, you’ve either missed or ignored my question twice, I’ll have another go. Has winning the vote been worth it?

Great win for England, sadly Ireland weren’t at the races yesterday.
England play like that in the next 4 games, they could well win the grand slam.

[navyblueshorts]

Big win in Ireland in the rugby. Not a fan of bonus points muddying the waters of a points system. A win is a win in my books, that said it’s is a big extra point given where it’s been earned.
Dyna, you’ve either missed or ignored my question twice, I’ll have another go. Has winning the vote been worth it?

Great win for England, sadly Ireland weren’t at the races yesterday.
England play like that in the next 4 games, they could well win the grand slam.

Ireland weren't allowed to be. They competed and some of the tackling on both sides was huge, but they got a bit battered and appeared to have no plan B when their box kicking wasn't being missed by May, Daly or Nowell. I was worn out watching the game from the sofa.
Probably not a bad result for Ireland pre-World Cup all said and done. They've time to learn from it.

[Diggers]

I know Maku got MOTM but I thought Nowell had a brilliant game, played more like a crash centre than a wing. Daly is a special player, whether that’s at full back I’m still not sure.
Never know what’s coming with this England side, could do the slam or go off the boil again.

[dynamark]

Must recount this one.
My friends wife was Manu T art teacher at school and his whole life was rugby rugby rugby.Everything he did in art ended up at rugby so one day she put out a vase of flowers and asked the class to paint said flowers.So Manu did this lovely painting of the flowers on a window cill and in the background out side was a game of rugby going on

[navyblueshorts]

Must recount this one.
My friends wife was Manu T art teacher at school and his whole life was rugby rugby  rugby.Everything he did in art ended up at rugby so one day she put out a vase of flowers and asked the class to paint said flowers.So Manu did this lovely painting of the flowers on a window cill and in the background out side was a game of rugby going on

Hah. Pretty cool. He's a force of nature. If England can keep him fit, he'll scare anyone.

[super_realist]

Super

Given that you normally don't care about injustices and actually seem to have a problem with people who do, why are you so concerned about the welfare of Palestinians?

I'm not, it's about BALANCE Mac, which is something you never bring into any argument. You get fixated from one point of view and argue it until you're gammon in the face.

I think the Palestinians have acted disgracefully too, but if you're arguing about Israel, whether they have a state or not then you simply can't have that argument without mentioning how successive Israel governments and individual Israeli's have treated Palestine. Like I said, if any other country did what Israel have done to Palestine, they'd have been invaded for it. Double standards.

[pedro]

Like I said, if any other country did what Israel have done to Palestine, they'd have been invaded for it.

Exactly. And at least Germany DID try to invade Britain...

[JAS]

Super

Given that you normally don't care about injustices and actually seem to have a problem with people who do, why are you so concerned about the welfare of Palestinians?

I'm not, it's about BALANCE Mac, which is something you never bring into any argument. You get fixated from one point of view and argue it until you're gammon in the face.

I think the Palestinians have acted disgracefully too, but if you're arguing about Israel, whether they have a state or not then you simply can't have that argument without mentioning how successive Israel governments and individual Israeli's have treated Palestine. Like I said, if any other country did what Israel have done to Palestine, they'd have been invaded for it. Double standards.

As much as I normally enjoy a lot of your provocative postings Soops “Balance” wouldn’t be the first word that sprung to mind if asked to describe them

[McLaren]

Super

That doesn't really answer why it is this particular injustice that made you finally care enough to post about an injustice that you thought was important. It is very out of character for you.

[super_realist]

Do you not see the hypocrisy of the Israeli situation? A country to enable them to flee persecution, and then they dish out persecution and land grabbing from those they invaded.

Israel act as if they are a special case, deserving of all the worlds sympathy, and then they behave like a fascist state in less than a generation of the holocaust.

[pedro]

Yes there is an element of hypocrisy. But it’s difficult not to see it in the context of having neighbours who also want to eradicate you.

[Diggers]

Super

That doesn't really answer why it is this particular injustice that made you finally care enough to post about an injustice that you thought was important. It is very out of character for you.

You’re overanalysing it Mac. Super probably met a fat Jew with bad teeth once, based on that he hates them slightly more than Muslims.

[McLaren]

Super

I get that but the question is why in this case do you not just wonder why people are worrying on other peoples behalfs like you normally do? It seems this is one of only two injustices you have actually showed concern for. The other being how you think Muslim women are treated.

[dynamark]

Interesting listening to the Sinn Fein leader on sunday.They still have that basic postion that N Ireland should be irish not occupied by the brits and it doesn't look as if it will ever go away regardless of anything else and I without knowing enough for sure kind of get that but is an excuse or reason for killing the folks who live down the road.
Surely they can find a way to live together and move on and maybe prosper.I don't know full history but thats long gone way in the past.

[McLaren]

Dyna

Ask Liam Neeson. He seems to have some violence issues.

[Diggers]

Interesting listening to the Sinn Fein leader on sunday.They still have that basic postion that N Ireland should be irish not occupied by the brits and it doesn't look as if it will ever go away regardless of anything else and I without knowing enough for sure kind of get that but is an excuse or reason for killing the folks who live down the road.
Surely they can find a way to live together and move on and maybe prosper.I don't know full history but thats long gone way in the past.

Plenty of people on both sides with very strong views. Hardly surprising when so many will have family or friends who died or were injured during the troubles.
One things for sure, yet another area where Brexit really is not helpful. That was one of the things I was alluding to when I asked is it really all worth it.

[pedro]

Interesting listening to the Sinn Fein leader on sunday.They still have that basic postion that N Ireland should be irish not occupied by the brits and it doesn't look as if it will ever go away regardless of anything else and I without knowing enough for sure kind of get that but is an excuse or reason for killing the folks who live down the road.
Surely they can find a way to live together and move on and maybe prosper.I don't know full history but thats long gone way in the past.

Maybe we should ask super to sort it out.

[super_realist]

Dyna

Ask Liam Neeson. He seems to have some violence issues.

I'm sure you'd probably just have a cup of tea if your sister, girlfriend, close friend, daughter etc was raped by someone and you'd feel no anger whatsoever.

[Collapse2005]

Interesting listening to the Sinn Fein leader on sunday.They still have that basic postion that N Ireland should be irish not occupied by the brits and it doesn't look as if it will ever go away regardless of anything else and I without knowing enough for sure kind of get that but is an excuse or reason for killing the folks who live down the road.
Surely they can find a way to live together and move on and maybe prosper.I don't know full history but thats long gone way in the past.

Societal division seems to me to be quite prevalent anywhere you have large populations of methodists. Racism in the southern states in the US, apartheid in South Africa, sectarianism in NI. Coincidence?

I believe the troubles in NI are less about occupation than they are about being treated like second class citizens by those in power.

NI isnt going to prosper any time soon. An unsustainably large percentage of jobs there are in the public sector presumably because foreign investment is hard to attract where you have political instability. The best solution at this stage to an almighy mess is in my view for NI to go it alone as its own country.

[super_realist]

Super

I get that but the question is why in this case do you not just wonder why people are worrying on other peoples behalfs like you normally do? It seems this is one of only two injustices you have actually showed concern for. The other being how you think Muslim women are treated.

Ha ha, that's irony for you Mac, accusing me of being a virtue signaller There's no bigger virtue signaller, professionally offended, social justice warrior and general arse licker to every cause going than you are.

[super_realist]

Interesting listening to the Sinn Fein leader on sunday.They still have that basic postion that N Ireland should be irish not occupied by the brits and it doesn't look as if it will ever go away regardless of anything else and I without knowing enough for sure kind of get that but is an excuse or reason for killing the folks who live down the road.
Surely they can find a way to live together and move on and maybe prosper.I don't know full history but thats long gone way in the past.

Societal division seems to me to be quite prevalent anywhere you have large populations of methodists. Racism in the southern states in the US, apartheid in South Africa, sectarianism in NI. Coincidence?

I believe the troubles in NI are less about occupation than they are about being treated like second class citizens by those in power.

NI isnt going to prosper any time soon. An unsustainably large percentage of jobs there are in the public sector presumably because foreign investment is hard to attract where you have political instability. The best solution at this stage to an almighy mess is in my view for NI to go it alone as its own country.

Don't see any problem with that, culturally, fiscally etc they bring nothing to the UK in general. Easily the most backward part of the UK, and one of the top 3 worst accents.

[Collapse2005]

Do you have a full ranking of the UKs worst accents? Lots of competition Id say.

[McLaren]

Dyna

Ask Liam Neeson. He seems to have some violence issues.

I'm sure you'd probably just have a cup of tea if your sister, girlfriend, close friend, daughter etc was raped by someone and you'd feel no anger whatsoever. :roll:

And I am pretty sure you would kill a random black guy.

[McLaren]

Super

I get that but the question is why in this case do you not just wonder why people are worrying on other peoples behalfs like you normally do? It seems this is one of only two injustices you have actually showed concern for. The other being how you think Muslim women are treated.

Ha ha, that's irony for you Mac, accusing me of being a virtue signaller :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  There's no bigger virtue signaller, professionally offended, social justice warrior and general arse licker to every cause going than you are.

I don't think you are virtue signalling. So I ask again, why this issue?

[navyblueshorts]

Dyna

Ask Liam Neeson. He seems to have some violence issues.

Really? What did he do that was violent then? Nothing, in actual fact. All he did is articulate what many people might feel in similar circumstances. From what I saw, he articulated how what he said he wanted to do was dumb.
Move along, nothing to see here...

[McLaren]

Navy

He admitted to prowling the streets waiting for the first black guy to leave a pub that he could pummel with a closh. Thankfully he probably lived in a very white area or things could have got ugly. And do you see he wasn't searching for the culprit but for any old black person.

He didn't just think about doing it.

[Diggers]

I think the incident happened decades ago. He grew up in sectarian Northern Ireland so hating other groups of people would come naturally.
So maybe he once had racist tendencies, the moral of the story is that he knew that’s wrong. So in effect we are demonising someone for admitting to self growth. Brilliant.

[McLaren]

I didn't mean to demonise him I just thought navy brushed it off a little lightly.

[McLaren]

John Barnes take on this and he would know better than me.

https://news.sky.com/story/john-barnes-liam-neeson-deserves-a-medal-for-race-admission-11628709

[Collapse2005]

Navy

He admitted to prowling the streets waiting for the first black guy to leave a pub that he could pummel with a closh. Thankfully he probably lived in a very white area or things could have got ugly. And do you see he wasn't searching for the culprit but for any old black person.

He didn't just think about doing it.

I don't think there are many black guys living in NI even today. Unsurprisingly the non white population of Ireland is larger in the south.

[super_realist]

Do you have a full ranking of the UKs worst accents? Lots of competition Id say.

In no particular order.
Belfast
Glasgow
Liverpool
Birmingham
Geordie
Cockney

I don't have a problem with many of the others.

[super_realist]

Navy

He admitted to prowling the streets waiting for the first black guy to leave a pub that he could pummel with a closh. Thankfully he probably lived in a very white area or things could have got ugly. And do you see he wasn't searching for the culprit but for any old black person.

He didn't just think about doing it.

I don't think prowling the streets with the type of serving dish that covers a plate in a posh restaurant is going to do too much harm to anyone do you? Perhaps it was the miniature garden greenhouse he was armed with.

It's COSH.

Are you going to boycott anything he's in now Mac?

[Collapse2005]

Thats actually not a bad list. Not a fan of any of them either especially the Birmingham accent.

[Diggers]

Accents are ghastly, so common.

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