Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[super_realist]

First topic message reminder :

On another note I’ve been teaching Spanish as part of my job this year, tricky when I don’t speak a word...or didn’t. Been using Duolingo for 3 weeks, still very early but amazing how quickly it helps you pick things up. Also asked the wife for some CD’s for Xmas to listen to on my commute. There is a Spanish guy who works for the premises team so when I feel a bit more confident Ill try some conversational Spanish with him.
Anyway, early but that’s my new year resolution, to follow it through and at least be competent, partly to help with my job and partly because Uve always wanted to learn a language, partly because I really think learning new stuff keeps your brain fresher.
Anyone else have something they really want to learn to do?

I'm not trying to be confrontational here Diggers, but how on earth can a school let someone without the skills in a subject to teach it? I can see how someone could blag teaching something like art, PE, English etc, but not a language. I suppose if it's at Primary Level you could teach counting to ten, asking where the railway station is etc.
I presume it's not secondary school?

[westisbest]

Never understood the problem people have with not liking accents.

Maybe just me, but don’t let minor things like that bother me.

[beninho]

Never understood the problem people have  with not liking accents.

Maybe just me, but don’t let minor things like that bother me.

Weird people having issues with accents. Most normal people just accept them and don't let it bother them. What type of tool has a ranking of a dislike of accents.

[Diggers]

Mines morphed over the years from Teesside to just fairly northern. It’s what you say that matters, not how you pronounce it.

[dynamark]

Awaay pet.Have you got a whippet?
Used to have proper Geordies working for us and when they got together I genuinely could not understand a word of it . Not so bad face to face but hopeless on the dog.(that's cockney)Just a few miles sometimes has a massive difference.

[McLaren]

Worst accent is posh Scottish.

[super_realist]

Never understood the problem people have  with not liking accents.

Maybe just me, but don’t let minor things like that bother me.

Weird people having issues with accents. Most normal people just accept them and don't let it bother them. What type of tool has a ranking of a dislike of accents.

I don't have an issue, just some sound worse than others. It's hilarious what pillars of virtue we all have on here.


What I do have an issue with is people who end every sentence on a high note as if it was a question, people who start every sentence with "So.…." and people who intersperse their dialogue with "like". Those things are far more annoying than any accent, which can at times be quite charming, evening the more regional ones.

[super_realist]

Worst accent is posh Scottish.

Projecting on yourself Mac?

[navyblueshorts]

I think the incident happened decades ago. He grew up in sectarian Northern Ireland so hating other groups of people would come naturally.
So maybe he once had racist tendencies, the moral of the story is that he knew that’s wrong. So in effect we are demonising someone for admitting to self growth. Brilliant.

Exactly my point. The absurd ‘storm’ over this is utterly pathetic. All these people pontificating about how horrendous he is are all perfect examples of human beings of course. At least John Barnes gets it, but most of the rest are doing more harm than good by piling in on this without even stopping to think.

[navyblueshorts]

I didn't mean to demonise him I just thought navy brushed it off a little lightly.

Think, Mac. For once on topics like this, think.

[McLaren]

Slight counter to Barnes from Gary Young who is usually pretty spot on.

"Liam Neeson’s interview shows that for some, black people are still not fully human"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/05/liam-neeson-interview-black-people-actor-racism?

[McLaren]

Navy

The more I think about the fact you want to so easily give him a free pass on this becomes more concerning.

[McLaren]

Worst accent is posh Scottish.

Projecting on yourself Mac?

No.

But unfortunately for you the Fife accent is up there for harsh accents.

[Davie]

Yet again the race card is being played needlessly. He was a very angry young man with issues regarding anger and violence. To bring race into it is just PC nonsense. Had his friend been allegedly r@ped by a white man he would have still felt the same emotions I'm sure

[McLaren]

Thought exercise. If in Neeson’s story it was a dog and not a black man, meaning he roamed the streets looking for any dog to kill. How would people react?

[Diggers]

Yet again the race card is being played needlessly. He was a very angry young man with issues regarding anger and violence. To bring race into it is just PC nonsense. Had his friend been allegedly r@ped by a white man he would have still felt the same emotions I'm sure

I'm struggling with this. For sure I can accept he's changed and it's a non story, but it is about race. If she'd said it was a white guy would he have just roamed the streets to beat up anyone? If it wasn't about race his anger would have been direct at any male, the fact that he has made the black distinction means it is absolutely about race. As I said, he recognized it, he's changed, it's a non story in that regard. But it's about race.

[McLaren]

Exactly, he attacked based on skin colour and not liklihood of having committed the crime.

[Davie]

Based on the skin colour of the person who perpetrated the original attack. If the original attacker had been white and he'd gone around hunting down black men then THAT would be racist

[McLaren]

Why are you so scared that race played a part in this?

[Diggers]

He makes a distintion based on race...therefore the attacker was black, I will attack a black man...that is bringing race into the equation. Not just a man. He said in the interview something like..."I was looking for a black ......." Not a specific black male, any one. He even adds an insult to the adjective black.
I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

[McLaren]

I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

And then you remember the weird world of 606.

[navyblueshorts]

Navy

The more I think about the fact you want to so easily give him a free pass on this becomes more concerning.

Jesus wept! There’s little point in engaging with you on any sort of ‘right on’ topic. I didn’t say I gave him a ‘free pass’, you plum. I’m asking for understanding and thought before all the schidt that’s being spouted about him. I’m asking for some consideration of where he might have been at when he said he THOUGHT about doing that. I’m asking for some realisation that he ADMIMTTED those thoughts were reprehensible. He’s almost certainly more honest about flaws he has/had than you are. Too many criticising him are undoubtedly hypocrits, but don’t even have the self-awareness to realise it.

Get it? Probably not.

[navyblueshorts]

Exactly, he attacked based on skin colour and not liklihood of having committed the crime.

He didn’t ATTACK anyone.

[navyblueshorts]

He makes a distintion based on race...therefore the attacker was black, I will attack a black man...that is bringing race into the equation. Not just a man. He said in the interview something like..."I was looking for a black ......." Not a specific black male, any one. He even adds an insult to the adjective black.
I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

You’re extrapolating as badly as Mac. It MAY have been racial; it MAY have been coincidental. If he’s Protestant and his friend was r@ped by a Catholic, I’m sure he would have been out after Catholics. The fact he was after a black man doesn’t, a priori make him racist.

This is a non-event in any case. He did nothing except admit he was (understandably) angry and has some bad thoughts, which he understands were dangerous and unworthy. Whoopy do. Who hasn’t? Obviously, St. Mac of Scotland hasn’t ever had any reprehensible thoughts as he’s perfect. It may have been decades ago and we’re judging his thoughts through the lenses of 21st century sensibilities.

This is a complete non-event blown out of all proportion by click-bait media and virtue signalling social media clowns. It’s also, arguably, doing more harm than good.

[Collapse2005]

Yet again the race card is being played needlessly. He was a very angry young man with issues regarding anger and violence. To bring race into it is just PC nonsense. Had his friend been allegedly r@ped by a white man he would have still felt the same emotions I'm sure

I'm struggling with this. For sure I can accept he's changed and it's a non story, but it is about race. If she'd said it was a white guy would he have just roamed the streets to beat up anyone? If it wasn't about race his anger would have been direct at any male, the fact that he has made the black distinction means it is absolutely about race. As I said, he recognized it, he's changed, it's a non story in that regard. But it's about race.

He already stated that if it was a Lithuanian guy or a Asian person etc. who committed the r*** he would have targeted that race/background. In my view the race thing is being over egged but that's to be expected. It just goes to show that people's reaction to heinous crimes such is r*** is often fairly illogical and emotional which is why a logic based legal system is appropiate.

His response was clearly wrong but quite human in nature but these days people are encouraged to supress honesty in favour of what is deemed acceptable.

[navyblueshorts]

I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

And then you remember the weird world of 606.

And so you imply that everyone here is racist. Well done; you never fail to amaze me.

[JAS]

Exactly, he attacked based on skin colour and not liklihood of having committed the crime.

Did he actually attack?? Did I miss a bit of the story?

[Diggers]

He makes a distintion based on race...therefore the attacker was black, I will attack a black man...that is bringing race into the equation. Not just a man. He said in the interview something like..."I was looking for a black ......." Not a specific black male, any one. He even adds an insult to the adjective black.
I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

You’re extrapolating as badly as Mac. It MAY have been racial; it MAY have been coincidental. If he’s Protestant and his friend was r@ped by a Catholic, I’m sure he would have been out after Catholics. The fact he was after a black man doesn’t, a priori make him racist.

This is a non-event in any case. He did nothing except admit he was (understandably) angry and has some bad thoughts, which he understands were dangerous and unworthy. Whoopy do. Who hasn’t? Obviously, St. Mac of Scotland hasn’t ever had any reprehensible thoughts as he’s perfect. It may have been decades ago and we’re judging his thoughts through the lenses of 21st century sensibilities.

This is a complete non-event blown out of all proportion by click-bait media and virtue signalling social media clowns. It’s also, arguably, doing more harm than good.

Get over it, it's just a straightforward case of a racist comment. It happens, sometimes something is as simple as it looks. I agree with the rest of the comments, I said that yesterday, but we don't have to pretend there is no such thing as racism.

[JAS]

So here we are in 2019 applying 2019 wisdom and cultural values to the actions of a man in Belfast in the late 1970s, a raging hotbed of bigotry, violence, intolerance and unemployment whose sister had just been raped. Did you really expect the guy to turn up at a local flower arranging class and have a cup of tea???

I don’t know what the ethnic %ages would have been in Belfast back then but I know where I grew up there was 1 yes 1 black kid at secondary school of 1200 pupils. There were 2-3 Italian families who owned ice cream shops and several Spanish families but that was the limit of the cultural spread. I do remember behaving badly at a sports event as part of a miners gala day when I was young 10ish? I dipped over the line 2nd in a sack race. A young kiddie from one of the Spanish families who was third was adjudged to have “won” by one of the men holding the tape (who just happened to be his uncle). Well...down came the red mist and an abusive tirade which would in all honesty get me into a lot more trouble now. Stick yer 3rd place up yer Effie arse ya Spanish “b-words”. Que stewards enquiry and I was promoted back to 2nd (but still behind the wee Guy from the Spanish family) . I said I didn’t want the prize and walked away. In my mind I was right and I stood up for myself, in today’s world I’d be locked up for being racist.

[Diggers]

So here we are in 2019 applying 2019 wisdom and cultural values to the actions of a man in Belfast in the late 1970s, a raging hotbed of bigotry, violence, intolerance and unemployment  whose sister had just been raped. Did you really expect the guy to turn up at a local flower arranging class and have a cup of tea???  

I don’t know what the ethnic %ages would have been in Belfast back then but I know where I grew up there was 1 yes 1 black kid at secondary school of 1200 pupils. There were 2-3 Italian families who owned ice cream shops and several Spanish families but that was the limit of the cultural spread.  I do remember behaving badly at a sports event as part of a miners gala day when I was young 10ish? I dipped over the line 2nd in a sack race. A young kiddie from one of the Spanish families who was third was adjudged to have “won” by one of the men holding the tape (who just happened to be his uncle). Well...down came the red mist and an abusive tirade which would in all honesty get me into a lot more trouble now.  Stick yer 3rd place up yer Effie arse ya Spanish “b-words”.  Que stewards enquiry and I was promoted back to 2nd (but still behind the wee Guy from the Spanish family) . I said I didn’t want the prize and walked away.  In my mind I was right and I stood up for myself, in today’s world I’d be locked up for being racist.

You wouldn't be locked up though, because the same kind of language still happens at primary school today. I had similar language twice last week in my year group. And they don't get locked up, they get a talking to about respecting differences. I know people seem to love having a go at political correctness, but you should take a look at research into unconscious and conscious racial bias, it is rife in society.
So we are saying that NI was a hotbed of tribal tension, that's fine, it's got a bit better, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say that something which was clearly a racist comment was a racist comment, that's just nonsense and doesn't help anymore than trying say that the guy should be branded a racist forever.

[navyblueshorts]

He makes a distintion based on race...therefore the attacker was black, I will attack a black man...that is bringing race into the equation. Not just a man. He said in the interview something like..."I was looking for a black ......." Not a specific black male, any one. He even adds an insult to the adjective black.
I can't really imagine how anything could be more clearly linked to race.

You’re extrapolating as badly as Mac. It MAY have been racial; it MAY have been coincidental. If he’s Protestant and his friend was r@ped by a Catholic, I’m sure he would have been out after Catholics. The fact he was after a black man doesn’t, a priori make him racist.

This is a non-event in any case. He did nothing except admit he was (understandably) angry and has some bad thoughts, which he understands were dangerous and unworthy. Whoopy do. Who hasn’t? Obviously, St. Mac of Scotland hasn’t ever had any reprehensible thoughts as he’s perfect. It may have been decades ago and we’re judging his thoughts through the lenses of 21st century sensibilities.

This is a complete non-event blown out of all proportion by click-bait media and virtue signalling social media clowns. It’s also, arguably, doing more harm than good.

Get over it, it's just a straightforward case of a racist comment. It happens, sometimes something is as simple as it looks. I agree with the rest of the comments, I said that yesterday, but we don't have to pretend there is no such thing as racism.

Yeah, I can go with that perhaps. The difference here is, I’m not sure enough on something of that significance. Too many people think things like this have no nuance and/or don’t care or understand why it might not be what they perceive it to be. Only he knows if it was racist - none of us are in a position to judge, but go right ahead.

[JAS]

So here we are in 2019 applying 2019 wisdom and cultural values to the actions of a man in Belfast in the late 1970s, a raging hotbed of bigotry, violence, intolerance and unemployment  whose sister had just been raped. Did you really expect the guy to turn up at a local flower arranging class and have a cup of tea???  

I don’t know what the ethnic %ages would have been in Belfast back then but I know where I grew up there was 1 yes 1 black kid at secondary school of 1200 pupils. There were 2-3 Italian families who owned ice cream shops and several Spanish families but that was the limit of the cultural spread.  I do remember behaving badly at a sports event as part of a miners gala day when I was young 10ish? I dipped over the line 2nd in a sack race. A young kiddie from one of the Spanish families who was third was adjudged to have “won” by one of the men holding the tape (who just happened to be his uncle). Well...down came the red mist and an abusive tirade which would in all honesty get me into a lot more trouble now.  Stick yer 3rd place up yer Effie arse ya Spanish “b-words”.  Que stewards enquiry and I was promoted back to 2nd (but still behind the wee Guy from the Spanish family) . I said I didn’t want the prize and walked away.  In my mind I was right and I stood up for myself, in today’s world I’d be locked up for being racist.

You wouldn't be locked up though, because the same kind of language still happens at primary school today. I had similar language twice last week in my year group. And they don't get locked up, they get a talking to about respecting differences. I know people seem to love having a go at political correctness, but you should take a look at research into unconscious and conscious racial bias, it is rife in society.
So we are saying that NI was a hotbed of tribal tension, that's fine, it's got a bit better, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say that something which was clearly a racist comment was a racist comment, that's just nonsense and doesn't help anymore than trying say that the guy should be branded a racist forever.

I do think unconscious racial bias exists and is widespread in many parts of the country. As I eluded to there wasn’t much diversity where I grew up. That, coupled with general attitudes 40 + years ago meant that my generation and before grew up in that area and I suppose in other areas never having to really understand respecting differences and tolerance. Indeed it was worse than that, South west Scotland, Parts of Ayrshire and Glasgow in particular had strong links with Sectarian areas in Northern Ireland. So it was all too easy to drift into religious intolerance and bigotry. That sort of thing was as disgusting then as it is now but young kids growing up don’t realise how dangerous and destructive it is. With each generation, society SHOULD get better at eradicating the nonsense but it still clings on in places.

[navyblueshorts]

So here we are in 2019 applying 2019 wisdom and cultural values to the actions of a man in Belfast in the late 1970s, a raging hotbed of bigotry, violence, intolerance and unemployment  whose sister had just been raped. Did you really expect the guy to turn up at a local flower arranging class and have a cup of tea???  

I don’t know what the ethnic %ages would have been in Belfast back then but I know where I grew up there was 1 yes 1 black kid at secondary school of 1200 pupils. There were 2-3 Italian families who owned ice cream shops and several Spanish families but that was the limit of the cultural spread.  I do remember behaving badly at a sports event as part of a miners gala day when I was young 10ish? I dipped over the line 2nd in a sack race. A young kiddie from one of the Spanish families who was third was adjudged to have “won” by one of the men holding the tape (who just happened to be his uncle). Well...down came the red mist and an abusive tirade which would in all honesty get me into a lot more trouble now.  Stick yer 3rd place up yer Effie arse ya Spanish “b-words”.  Que stewards enquiry and I was promoted back to 2nd (but still behind the wee Guy from the Spanish family) . I said I didn’t want the prize and walked away.  In my mind I was right and I stood up for myself, in today’s world I’d be locked up for being racist.

You wouldn't be locked up though, because the same kind of language still happens at primary school today. I had similar language twice last week in my year group. And they don't get locked up, they get a talking to about respecting differences. I know people seem to love having a go at political correctness, but you should take a look at research into unconscious and conscious racial bias, it is rife in society.
So we are saying that NI was a hotbed of tribal tension, that's fine, it's got a bit better, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say that something which was clearly a racist comment was a racist comment, that's just nonsense and doesn't help anymore than trying say that the guy should be branded a racist forever.

FWIW on reflection, I get what you’re saying about this being a racist thought, by definition. My problem is how it’s being interpreted by far too many people.

[Diggers]

So here we are in 2019 applying 2019 wisdom and cultural values to the actions of a man in Belfast in the late 1970s, a raging hotbed of bigotry, violence, intolerance and unemployment  whose sister had just been raped. Did you really expect the guy to turn up at a local flower arranging class and have a cup of tea???  

I don’t know what the ethnic %ages would have been in Belfast back then but I know where I grew up there was 1 yes 1 black kid at secondary school of 1200 pupils. There were 2-3 Italian families who owned ice cream shops and several Spanish families but that was the limit of the cultural spread.  I do remember behaving badly at a sports event as part of a miners gala day when I was young 10ish? I dipped over the line 2nd in a sack race. A young kiddie from one of the Spanish families who was third was adjudged to have “won” by one of the men holding the tape (who just happened to be his uncle). Well...down came the red mist and an abusive tirade which would in all honesty get me into a lot more trouble now.  Stick yer 3rd place up yer Effie arse ya Spanish “b-words”.  Que stewards enquiry and I was promoted back to 2nd (but still behind the wee Guy from the Spanish family) . I said I didn’t want the prize and walked away.  In my mind I was right and I stood up for myself, in today’s world I’d be locked up for being racist.

You wouldn't be locked up though, because the same kind of language still happens at primary school today. I had similar language twice last week in my year group. And they don't get locked up, they get a talking to about respecting differences. I know people seem to love having a go at political correctness, but you should take a look at research into unconscious and conscious racial bias, it is rife in society.
So we are saying that NI was a hotbed of tribal tension, that's fine, it's got a bit better, that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to say that something which was clearly a racist comment was a racist comment, that's just nonsense and doesn't help anymore than trying say that the guy should be branded a racist forever.

FWIW on reflection, I get what you’re saying about this being a racist thought, by definition. My problem is how it’s being interpreted by far too many people.

I think to brand the guy an out and out racist for once (or previously having, largely through being a product of an environment) having a racist thought is ridiculous. He's clearly "evolved" as a person.

[super_realist]

Slight counter to Barnes from Gary Young who is usually pretty spot on.

"Liam Neeson’s interview shows that for some, black people are still not fully human"

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/05/liam-neeson-interview-black-people-actor-racism?

Love sacks Mac. If any of us were old enough to be able to go back 40 years, I very much doubt that any of us would like ourselves very much. Our ideals, opinions and standards will have changed dramatically.
Castigating Neeson for what he thought 40 years ago is dictatorial fascism of the likes that the Stasi used to employ during the cold war.

[super_realist]

Worst accent is posh Scottish.

Projecting on yourself Mac?

No.

But unfortunately for you the Fife accent is up there for harsh accents.

Mac, if you'd travelled further than 50 miles in your life you ought to know that Fife has at least 20 different accents ranging from the untermensch of the old coal towns like Methil and Lochgelly to the more posh accents of the North East.

Anyway, if you've got a posh accent as you infer, then you can strike discrimination on the grounds of having a low class accent for your lack of success in life. Are you just lazy?

[McLaren]

You inferred I had a posh accent, I said posh Scottish was the worst. Comprehension issues for you again?


So which of the 20 Fife accents do you have?

[super_realist]

Mac, Even within St. Andrews there's quite a few accents. If you wanted to be generic I would say I had an East coast accent, not especially strong, not especially Scottish.

[Diggers]

Bloody hell, City are one great team when they are on it. Aquero is unplayable right now.

[McLaren]

It is weird but Aguero is underrated.

[Diggers]

He probably is a bit, maybe just taken for granted. He’s definitely a better all round player than 2-3 years ago, and there are 3-4 world class forwards around him teeing it up and causing havoc themselves.

[McLaren]

If someone said he was the best striker ever in the PL I wouldn't argue all that strongly against that.

[super_realist]

It's a very easy claim to make when playing for Man City is like cheating in Championship Manager.

I don't think you could really argue he is better than Henry and perhaps even Drogba were.

You could also make a goals per game argument for Zola and Bergkamp for being considerably better than Aguero. There's been some great strikers in the Premiership, Aguero is very very good, but I don't think he's the best. Top 5-6 for sure though.

[Diggers]

All of the top strikers (bar arguably Shearer) were playing for excellent sides. Henry played for a side that was unbeaten all season, City haven't managed that. Not sure what planet you are on comparing Zola and Bergkamp's goal scoring records per game with Aguero, they aren't even close. Neither were massively prolific goalscorers, though obviously excellent players.

[dynamark]

Leicester were bizarre again yesterday last three games against Spuds,Liverpool and Manure we could and should have won all three but only one point to show.
Manager still not well liked.
On LN there was also a film to promote don't forget so questions and answers creating publicity.

[pedro]

Don’t think Aguero is a stand out like Salah or Kane in previous seasons. Maybe he needs a bit more time. Or maybe it’s harder to shine when your team is constantly steam rolling their opponents.

[McLaren]

Pedro

Aguero is a stand out every season.

[Diggers]

How do you define stand out? Can't think of a more iconic way than a last gasp winner to grab a title from your rivals. If you use the fact that City steamroller opponents, how come they haven't won the title every year for the past 5 years? They aren't even top this year. Last year was the one where they were really dominant, other sides with great strikers had dominant years as well.
Aguero and Kane are exactly the same for goals per game. Funnily enough you'd say Kane is a better team player, but per game Aguero provides more assists.
Simple answer is they are both excellent, right now I'd take Aguero but that could change in a few months. They would both be part of the conversation for the best Premier League striker.

[JAS]

...Meanwhile at the Bridge, is Sarri’s jacket on a shaky peg?? I do hate the “here today gone tomorrow after a bad result” attitude driven by instant results and monitisation which is now prevalent in the Premiership but given that’s now where the EPL is at and it’s an attitude that Abramovich doesn’t seem to have an issue embracing. I’m thinking it’s only a matter of time.

[kwinigolfer]

...Meanwhile at the Bridge, is Sarri’s jacket on a shaky peg?? I do hate the “here today gone tomorrow after a bad result” attitude driven by instant results and monitisation which is now prevalent in the Premiership but given that’s now where the EPL is at and it’s an attitude that Abramovich doesn’t seem to have an issue embracing. I’m thinking it’s only a matter of time.

I'd love to see an analysis of performance by foreign management teams in the Premier League over the past decade or so. At least as measured against GB&I managers in the same circumstances.
Sarri doesn't seem to have a clue, players out of position, not working together, not seeming to give a toss. Just a continuation of the second half vs Bournemouth.
The players he's brought in haven't improved the squad (tho Higuain might) and the goalie's terrible.
The bloke at Everton not doing much better and Puel is a disaster. These management teams seem to come with squads of hangers on and bottle washers, must cost a mint to be hiring them and firing them all within a year. Can't tell me that GB&I staffs couldn't do better than most of the mercenaries.
Having said which, love to see Chelsea go down the drain.

[Davie]

Hmm Chelsea....

Mourinho lost the dressing room.... Conte lost the dressing room. Sarri seems to have lost the dressing room...

Anyone see the common link here?

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