Irish NIQ contracts 19-20

Cant find previous thread so I'll ask here

What contracts are signed within the 4 provinces for NIE
and Project players for 19-20

I'll start with Ulster
NIE - none
Project - none

geoff999rugby wrote:Cant find previous thread so I'll ask here

What contracts are signed within the 4 provinces for NIE  
and Project players for 19-20

I'll start with Ulster
NIE - none
Project - none

Ulster

McFarland would like to keep Coetzee so that’s 1 possible NIE.
NIQ Special Projects unlikely given the 5-year wait.
NIQs cos they’re cheaper is a possibility.

Munster

3 NIEs - Taute who is confirmed as leaving in June; Mathewson who is signed as cover until end March.  Botha signed for another year.
NIQs - Rhys Marshall has re-signed;  As has Kleyn (IQ in Aug) and Cloete re-signed until June 2022.
Bleyendaal now IQ and likely to be kept.  Keatley is moving to Benetton.

Connacht

McCartney is already IQ and is contracted until June 2020.
NIE - Godwin is signed for two years until June 2020
NIQ - Butler is signed until June 2020; Fainga’a is on a one year contract, likely to be renewed.  Horwitz also on a one-year contract - no indication yet.
Cain Kelleher is leaving in June and heading back to Leinster.  Most likely because McFadden will be let go.

Leinster

NIE - Fardy finishes in June;  Tomane has another year left.
NIQ - Gibson-Park becomes IQ in June - no word on his contract yet which finishes in June.;  Lowe’s contract runs until June 2020 ( wouldn’t residency qualify until mid-Nov 2020)

Cheers I read somewhere Marshall becomes IQ early next season is that correct ?

He does as do Klein and Gibson Park. Then Lowe Butler and Cloete in 2020

I think what you asked was what NIE/NIQ players are confirmed as signed for next season.

Ulster: none as you said.

Munster: Botha NIE and Cloete NIQ

Leinster: Tomane NIE and Lowe NIQ

Connacht: Godwin NIE and Butler NIQ

There will undoubtedly be more.

When you look at it none of them are top ranking imports like we used to sign. They are there to cover players who are away on intl duty mainly.

Don't Munster have a couple of South African projects in the academy?

As they seem to pushing for 3+1 or a combination thereof (as long as NIE doesn't go above 3) then
that is telling me the other 3 provinces will only be allowed to sign 2 more players, including possible contract extensions.

If what Marty says is true Munster should not be allowed any new players who are not IQ now

https://www.the42.ie/munster-matt-more-south-africa-centre-3789670-Jan2018/

Thanks Marty - if the IRFU are true to their word then Munster should get no more NIQ players of any description.
Having said that they have been favoured in recent years.
In truth IRFU pushing hard for 2+1 if at all possible, but perhaps 2+2 or 1+3 are ok.

I know Ulster are looking to have a LH, Lock and a backrower (which could be Coetzee resigning) and are being told one must be IQ
That is why we were talking to Deegan (would mean Coetzee going) but he doesn't seem interested anyway.

Do academy players count towards the NIQ quota though?

Perhaps not but Munster would, in this case, have an issue as far as when they are ready/expecting Development or Full contracts they will take up 2 of Munsters 4 slots

I think those 2 players in Munster were signed just before the residency rules changed. So they will be iq when they finish the academy in 2020

If you add them in, Munster had 11 niq players last season.

Done some digging they were signed before 1st Jan 2018 so will be ok at the start of the 2020/21 season or at the very least a few months in.
Sure a few months will be waivered

Will be interesting to see is 2+1 is really pushed with all provinces - if so the other 3 provinces can only sign 1 more NIQ player this summer

Last season Munster for full season had:

2 NIE players - Grobler and Taute
3 NIQ players - Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete, and NIQ Bleyendaal who became IQ in Jan 2018.

Grobler left in June 2018 and Botha came in as NIE this season.
2 NIE - Botha and Taute plus Mathewson injury cover NIE until March.
3 NIQ - Marshall, Kleyn and Cloete.

Taute is leaving in June, and Kleyn becomes IQ in Aug 2019, so next season, it will be:

1 NIE - Botha
1 NIQ - Cloete (becomes RIQ in Oct 2020) and Marshall who becomes IQ after a few weeks on October 25 this year.

Academy players don’t count towards quotas.

Leinster with Fardy leaving and Gibson Park becoming IQ in June will have:

NIE: Tomane - contracted until June 2020.
NIQ: Lowe - contracted until June 2020.

Lowe wouldn’t be 3 years in Ireland until mid-Nov 2020 meaning he’d be available for test selection for first time in Feb 2021 for 6N. He turns 29 in July 2021, and would be 31 by RWC 2023 - not that long an opportunity for him with age and possible recurrence of arthritis against him and a host of young Irish players coming through for test spots and more caps.

That's an interesting twist. Players only count if they are there for the full season.

They still had 9 different niq players in 1 season. It was the season before last though. And just for the sake of pedantry grobler wasn't NIE.

I suspect a few months into a season would be waivered but going past Christmas would not

The fact remains Munster get injury cover a hell of a lot easier than Ulster - they are not treated equally.
Last year Ulster were desperate for a backrower but were turned down, will we get a LH now
Only 2 fit LH's for the rest of the season and one of those is an Academy player, and the other is, at best, 3rd choice
As I mentioned on the Ulster thread my belief is they believe this is because there is a view that Munster with
help can remain competitive at the highest level but Ulster are not able to.

Knowing a bit about SA politics and economy due to family ties, it could be simply that they get more being in the Irish academy system.  I posted a link in the Pro 14 thread about how little the Kings and Cheetahs are paying their main squad. The top SA teams are paying about €40k average across their 120 players.
Also with all the optical unrest they might just be fed up with all the turmoil.  Also crime is an issue so the fact of being young and being to be able to go out and do whatever and not have to worry has to be appealing.

Brendan wrote:Knowing a bit about SA politics and economy due to family ties, it could be simply that they get more being in the Irish academy system.  I posted a link in the Pro 14 thread about how little the Kings and Cheetahs are paying their main squad.  The top SA teams are paying about €40k average across their 120 players.
Also with all the optical unrest they might just be fed up with all the turmoil.  Also crime is an issue so the fact of being young and being to be able to go out and do whatever and not have to worry has to be appealing.

Irish academy players get €8k a season - not exactly living on your own money....

St John The Enforcer wrote:That's an interesting twist. Players only count if they are there for the full season.

They still had 9 different niq players in 1 season. It was the season before last though. And just for the sake of pedantry grobler wasn't NIE.

Yep - I reckon that's how Munster would argue it and IRFU clearly accepted it. It's not an even spread amongst the provinces - it's a national system limit, don't forget.

And you're right - I put Grobler under wrong heading - he was NIQ.

Who were the 9 NIQ players from the previous season - 2016-17? Or do you mean a mix of NIE and NIQ? They had Taute, Sailii and Chisholm as NIE, IIRC. Kleyn who got 3-moth injury cover from Deysel, Du Toit as a 3-month injury cover at prop?

geoff999rugby wrote:I suspect a few months into a season would be waivered but going past Christmas would not

The fact remains Munster get injury cover a hell of a lot easier than Ulster - they are not treated equally.
Last year Ulster were desperate for a backrower but were turned down, will we get a LH now
Only 2 fit LH's for the rest of the season and one of those is an Academy player, and the other is, at best, 3rd choice
As I mentioned on the Ulster thread my belief is they believe this is because there is a view that Munster with
help can remain competitive at the highest level but Ulster are not able to.

Yep - I'd agree with that belief. Things may change with IRFU sitting more in the cockpit seat than maybe previously.

Were Ulster turned down?
Maybe there wasnt the finance, suitable players, or decision made to go without one?
Do we really know Ulster asked and were refused?

Pot Hale wrote:

Brendan wrote:Knowing a bit about SA politics and economy due to family ties, it could be simply that they get more being in the Irish academy system.  I posted a link in the Pro 14 thread about how little the Kings and Cheetahs are paying their main squad.  The top SA teams are paying about €40k average across their 120 players.
Also with all the optical unrest they might just be fed up with all the turmoil.  Also crime is an issue so the fact of being young and being to be able to go out and do whatever and not have to worry has to be appealing.

Irish academy players get €8k a season - not exactly living on your own money....

The academy contract might not be great nor their first contract in Irish terms. When you take it that €40k was the highest average at the stormers. Lions is the lowest of the S15 teams at €35k, the Cheetahs is €28k and Kings is €11k. What is an average starting professional contract at Munster. Short term pain for big reward to take home later.

By the way I think the academies should be people living in Ireand who have played at least their last year of rugby here prior to joining

So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

Wasn't talking about IQ players, especially those part of the exile program.
But players with no connection to ireland should have to do a year of club/school before getting a contract.

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

Wasn't talking about IQ players, especially those part of the exile program.
But players with no connection to ireland should have to do a year of club/school before getting a contract.

Why?

marty2086 wrote:

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

Wasn't talking about IQ players, especially those part of the exile program.
But players with no connection to ireland should have to do a year of club/school before getting a contract.

Why?

As you have pointed out there are enough IQ players that we don't need to be looking to bring in SA players that aren't connected to Ireland. I'm not sure why what I said is controversial I think I have been misunderstood.

IQ players give them an academy contract right away no problem (they could be a NZ u20 player or a u18 player from a little village in Oz etc, if they have an Irish Granny I'm happy for them to join one of the four academies if they are good enough)
NIQ should have to play a year at AIL/Schools/College/Mikey mouse league.  Why should players who can't play for Ireland for 5 years get a spot that IQ players could have (doesn't matter where they have lived or if the top 20 prospects from around the world want to join).  Would a year in an AIL league club be so bad, would give them a feel for what Irish rugby is going to be about.
I don't want to go down the soccer route where half the academies are overseas imports who are there to develop into a top player but don't want to put on the green jersey.

Take players like Lamour or Ryan or Stockdale, play great get called up for Ireland at a young age.  Now you will have some u20 players playing for Ireland wondering if these SA lads are going to get that senior Ireland spot they have wanted since they were little.  Look at players like louw or Gibson-park (who are in positions we have good players) people have been talking as potential internationals. So does Stockdale need to carry around the pressure of not only being really good but knowing he isn't James Louw who will take the jersey off him the day he qualifies with the way some people talk.

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

Wasn't talking about IQ players, especially those part of the exile program.
But players with no connection to ireland should have to do a year of club/school before getting a contract.

Why?

As you have pointed out there are enough IQ players that we don't need to be looking to bring in SA players that aren't connected to Ireland. I'm not sure why what I said is controversial I think I have been misunderstood.

IQ players give them an academy contract right away no problem (they could be a NZ u20 player or a u18 player from a little village in Oz etc, if they have an Irish Granny I'm happy for them to join one of the four academies if they are good enough)
NIQ should have to play a year at AIL/Schools/College/Mikey mouse league.  Why should players who can't play for Ireland for 5 years get a spot that IQ players could have (doesn't matter where they have lived or if the top 20 prospects from around the world want to join).  Would a year in an AIL league club be so bad, would give them a feel for what Irish rugby is going to be about.
I don't want to go down the soccer route where half the academies are overseas imports who are there to develop into a top player but don't want to put on the green jersey.

Take players like Lamour or Ryan or Stockdale, play great get called up for Ireland at a young age.  Now you will have some u20 players playing for Ireland wondering if these SA lads are going to get that senior Ireland spot they have wanted since they were little.  Look at players like louw or Gibson-park (who are in positions we have good players) people have been talking as potential internationals. So does Stockdale need to carry around the pressure of not only being really good but knowing he isn't James Louw who will take the jersey off him the day he qualifies with the way some people talk.

Neither Lowe nor Gibson Park are good enough to simply usurp existing players. I dont think anyone has said or implied that Lowe would take Stockdale’s jersey off him when he’s qualified for selection for first time in 6N 2021.

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Brendan wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:So you would deny Academy spots to Irish qualified players because there families have been living abroad - cant agree with that

Ulster, potentially, would not have O'Toole, Curtis A, Curtis G, McPhillips
I'm would sure this would be the same for other provinces
Net effect is reducing the net of potential Irish players by deny IQ players !!

Marmion, Arnold, Bealham and Ruddock are others

Wasn't talking about IQ players, especially those part of the exile program.
But players with no connection to ireland should have to do a year of club/school before getting a contract.

Why?

As you have pointed out there are enough IQ players that we don't need to be looking to bring in SA players that aren't connected to Ireland. I'm not sure why what I said is controversial I think I have been misunderstood.

IQ players give them an academy contract right away no problem (they could be a NZ u20 player or a u18 player from a little village in Oz etc, if they have an Irish Granny I'm happy for them to join one of the four academies if they are good enough)
NIQ should have to play a year at AIL/Schools/College/Mikey mouse league.  Why should players who can't play for Ireland for 5 years get a spot that IQ players could have (doesn't matter where they have lived or if the top 20 prospects from around the world want to join).  Would a year in an AIL league club be so bad, would give them a feel for what Irish rugby is going to be about.
I don't want to go down the soccer route where half the academies are overseas imports who are there to develop into a top player but don't want to put on the green jersey.

Take players like Lamour or Ryan or Stockdale, play great get called up for Ireland at a young age.  Now you will have some u20 players playing for Ireland wondering if these SA lads are going to get that senior Ireland spot they have wanted since they were little.  Look at players like louw or Gibson-park (who are in positions we have good players) people have been talking as potential internationals. So does Stockdale need to carry around the pressure of not only being really good but knowing he isn't James Louw who will take the jersey off him the day he qualifies with the way some people talk.

What a great way to breed quality and competitive players, dont worry about your place, you're Irish so you've no worry about someone better taking your spot?

The whole idea is stupid in the extreme

Pot Hale wrote:

Who were the 9 NIQ players from the previous season - 2016-17?  Or do you mean a mix of NIE and NIQ?  They had Taute, Sailii and Chisholm as NIE, IIRC.  Kleyn who got 3-moth injury cover from Deysel,   Du Toit as a 3-month injury cover at prop?

Du Toit, Marshall, Kleyn, Toma, Bleyendaal, Saili, Taute, Chisholm and Griesel.

They are all NIQ some are also NIE. Any player that is NIE is also NIQ by default

St John The Enforcer wrote:Ulster: none as you said.

Munster: Botha NIE and Cloete NIQ

Leinster: Tomane NIE and Lowe NIQ

Connacht: Godwin NIE and Butler NIQ

.

So Ulster now have 2 NIE - Coetzee and Carter
Any movements at the other provinces for 19-20 ?

What are your thoughts on Coetzee signing on, finally fixed or was he playing through the pain to get a new contract. If he is fit he is great but he owes Ulster plenty with this new contract.

I reckon he is fixed.
There are extra clauses in the contract to cover us against serious injury.

geoff999rugby wrote:I reckon he is fixed.
There are extra clauses in the contract to cover us against serious injury.

The backrow looks so much stronger with him and Murphy there

Update

Ulster: Coetzee NIE and Carter NIE

Munster: Botha NIE and Cloete NIQ

Leinster: Tomane NIE, Fardy NIE and Lowe NIQ

Connacht: Godwin NIE and Butler NIQ

geoff999rugby wrote:Update

Ulster: Coetzee NIE and Carter NIE

Munster: Botha NIE and Cloete NIQ

Leinster: Tomane NIE, Fardy NIE and Lowe NIQ

Connacht: Godwin NIE and Butler NIQ

Interesting that IRFU are now allowing NIE players to re-sign. Munster quietly announced that Alby Mathewson has extended until end of season now so he's been another NIE on the books. Wonder if they'll seek to renew him even with Nick McCarthy coming in. Rhys Marshall is NIQ until November this year and is signed until June 2021. And Bleyendaal has been re-signed until 2021 (when he'll be 31) as well. Colby Fainga and David Horwitz - both NIQ - have yet to be announced by Connacht for next season.

Jean Kleyn, Jamison Gibson-Park residency qualify in August this year. Along with Marshall, will all 3 RIQs feature in Farrell's squad selection for Six Nations 2020 to go along with Stander, Roux and Aki?

Will Lowe be in a mood to throw his sleeping bag in our tent?
I always have my reservations about the old qualification debate but what a player to have in a squad. I'm not just talking obvious quality but personality and attitude. Seems we Irish when left to our own devices are timid souls and take our rugby perhaps too seriously at times when in a group together. But our imports seem to be blessed with a pizzazz of infectious enthusiasm that actually makes the rugby itself more seriously effective. Stander is a big character. Bundee another...and then Lowe? Playing with joy...yeah, let's try it Ireland.

Bleyendaal is now a fully paid up Irishman

I do feel the envelop gets stretched for Munster in a way it doesn't for others.
Marshall is as you say NIQ till November but will not be included against their allocation.

For example Munster have kept Mathewson, supposedly as injury cover, when they have 4 other 9s on the books
Murray, Williams, Hart, Cronin when Ulster have only 2 fit LH's but get no assistance

Not sure why you would have Roux and Kleyn in the Irish squad when you have Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne available.
In this instance the home grown players are better. Marshall could well be involved, after Best the place is up for grabs

SecretFly wrote:Will Lowe be in a mood to throw his sleeping bag in our tent?
I always have my reservations about the old qualification debate but what a player to have in a squad.  I'm not just talking obvious quality but personality and attitude.  Seems we Irish when left to our own devices are timid souls and take our rugby perhaps too seriously at times when in a group together.  But our imports seem to be blessed with a pizzazz of infectious enthusiasm that actually makes the rugby itself more seriously effective.  Stander is a big character.  Bundee another...and then Lowe?   Playing with joy...yeah, let's try it Ireland.

Lowe's Leinster contract runs until May 2020. If he renews with Leinster, he would only residency qualify in 3rd week of November 2020, so his first bite at test level would in theory be Six Nations 2021. A lot of water to flow under the bridge between now and then and other players to compete and get text experience ahead of him.

So has has a bit of a weigh-up perhaps to make come the end of his current Leinster contract. Is he likely to get selected for Ireland on a regular basis (and earn extra moolah) and would he last until RWC 2023 when he'd be 31? Or will there be a bigger money offer from a French/English club that would give him a good end of career payoff given his problems with juvenile arthritis?

geoff999rugby wrote:Bleyendaal is now a fully paid up Irishman

I do feel the envelop gets stretched for Munster in a way it doesn't for others.
Marshall is as you say NIQ till November but will not be included against their allocation.

For example Munster have kept Mathewson, supposedly as injury cover, when they have 4 other 9s on the books
Murray, Williams, Hart, Cronin when Ulster have only 2 fit LH's but get no assistance

Not sure why you would have Roux and Kleyn in the Irish squad when you have Ryan, Toner, Henderson and Beirne available.
In this instance the home grown players are better. Marshall could well be involved, after Best the place is up for grabs

Agreed about Munster getting a fair degree of elasticity on the rules 'n' regs.
Hart is finished with Munster in June and I think Duncan Williams is too.

Agree with you to some extent about Roux and Kleyn, but looking to the future, Toner's current central contract runs until June 2020 at which point he'll be 34. Roux will be nearing 30 at same stage; Beirne 28, Henderson 28, Kleyn 27, Dillane 26, and Ryan 23. Outriders like Treadwell (24), Wycherley 22, and Thornbury 26 may come into consideration at that stage also.

Gibson-Park will have his hands full in competing for a spot against Murray, Marmion, Cooney, and McGrath though.

Yeah, I know the complications with Lowe, Pot. I wasn't really trying to work out the potential reality of him becoming an Irish International...just pondering on what a positivity shot in the arm he is as a player and personality. Don't think the Irish team would be as down in the dumps and feeling sorry for themselves if he was around in training. Just me a pondering out loud, Pot.
Then again, maybe them pesky Irish boys ain't as down in the dumps as they're making out to be anyway. France will tell all. ....... but we said that about Italy too....

SecretFly wrote:Yeah, I know the complications with Lowe, Pot.  I wasn't really trying to work out the potential reality of him becoming an Irish International...just pondering on what a positivity shot in the arm he is as a player and personality.  Don't think the Irish team would be as down in the dumps and feeling sorry for themselves if he was around in training.  Just me  a pondering out loud, Pot.  
Then again, maybe them pesky Irish boys ain't as down in the dumps as they're making out to be anyway.  France will tell all.  ....... but we said that about Italy too....

Maybe not, but you know what me mother used to say about a pot of Irish stew when she only had it on the low flame gas ....

Em..... what did she say Pot?
"Slow cooked stew is the best for you".... "Slow cooked stew is pure stew true and true"....... "Slow cooked stew saves on trips to the loo" ???
What did she say? Tell me what she said!!! I gotsta know, Pot!!! I cook a mean stew myself and am always looking for hints on how to make it meaner still. Haven't tried witholding the meat yet as that would be just too mean.

Maybe a slow stew is eaten raw, because it takes to long to cook

Or a slow stew keeps the women busy while the men are at work. (Yes woman can work outside the home but cooking the stew while in the shops just doesn't have the same taste)

Or a slow stew should be eaten slowly

A good slow cooked stew means you barely have to chew?

Best one so far, King!!! It actually makes sense in gastronomic terms.... which is always a bonus on this site.

On the other provinces plundering Leinster issue.

Connacht I submit have, at the very least, been more sinned against than sinned - notably Henshaw
As for Ulster the only established professional we have signed direct from Leinster is Murphy and you need to
take into consideration players going the other way like Boss and McCormack

So facts don't really add up.
You cant include player who never made the Leinster Academy or didn't make the grade.
If they have later come good elsewhere that is a failure to identify the talent
Not sure about Munster but I leave that to Munster and Leinster to discuss

That's a little disingenuous when 9 of your players learned all their rugby in Leinster up to at least 18 years old. Some longer.

Ronan McCormac is born and bread Leinster who played 2 years in Connacht and Ulster before coming back to Leinster and he retired about 10 years ago. You guys wanted rid of Boss at the time. He learned all his Rugby in NZ anyhow.

Henshaw is one I feel sorry for Connacht about. But in fairness they have more Leinster developed players than anyone else.

Don't get me wrong I don't begrudge you any of them. A bit of a twinge over Jordi but he made the choice himself like Henshaw.

Not sure how I'll feel when Jack McGrath becomes the first Lions player to change provinces since Eric Miller

Leinster showed no interest in giving those player full contracts and some of them were not even in the Academy

I mentioned McCormack because he was a player established in the Ulster set up who went south
As to McGrath lets be clear - he is the one who suggested the move, not Ulster.

My overall point it is simply wrong to suggest that Leinster are getting shorn of established player by pressure being put on
on them to move to other provinces, at least as far as Connacht and Ulster are concerned.
That is both historically and currently, Munster may be different I don't know

Boss was not pushed out, he wasn't prepared to compete with Pienaer, that was why he left