Dragons Season Thread - 2019/20 aka Year 1 of the new 5 Year Plan

[Stone Motif]

First topic message reminder :

A good win for Dragons. Wonder if George North might get banned this week for more shethousery. Guy is turning into a dirty get down there.

Wasn’t too convinced by the subs we made, but they turned out to be wise choices. That includes Tovey steadying the ship and kicking the winner and surprisingly Suter being solid in the scrum.

It's an amazing win given the Ospreys dominance. If they'd have made the right calls our luck would have run out I think.

[mikey_dragon]

It's what I said at the beginning of the season then... There is potential in the current squad but good players and coaches coming in are now vital to their development. You don't win this league without a good crop of internationals in your team.

Despite Screech showing great improvement I would still bring in a lock, just so Davies and Williams don't feature. Hill and Nansen returning give us more good options in the back 5. I rate Barrel who has just re-signed but again, we need a star player on either side of the hooker  - probably wishful thinking at this stage but again, look at the calibre of props that feature in the Pro14. I'm just stating the obvious.

I also alluded to Ceri staying on as forwards coach and that seems like a good appointment, but head coach I wouldn't put that on him right now (despite him giving us our best season in the last 4 years....). Rowntree seems like the best name to be put about. I just hope he knows a good defence and attack coach.

What about Scarlets though? Their coaching teams' record this year doesn't look that promising for Wales. Hopefully just a blip. The appointment of Hayward is still shocking though IMO.

[Stone Motif]

Roll out the barrel...

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17605933.new-dragons-deal-for-prop-fairbrother/

[Luckless Pedestrian]

'Dragons are set to appoint Dean Ryan, the former Worcester director of rugby, as their new head coach.

'The 52-year-old will take over at Rodney Parade in place of Bernard Jackman, who left in December 2018.

'Ceri Jones has coached the Welsh Pro 14 region in an interim role since the departure of the former Ireland hooker.

'Ryan has been the Rugby Football Union's head of international player development since July 2016, after three years at the Worcester helm.

'The former England number eight is no stranger to Rodney Parade, as he took on the role of rugby consultant for Dragons in December 2012.'

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48133180

[RiscaGame]

All things considered, as big a name as we could’ve hoped for. A lot of me is pleased, because he has a better pedigree than some other realistic options and has a track record of getting talented players playing pretty well (albeit a few years ago now).

Ex military too, so bound to be alright (although wrong service choice )

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah nah not sure about Ryan. He hasn't coached for a while and not a great pedigree. I would have preferred Rowntree (unless he is coming in as forwards coach ). Either way we'll need a few more good players (not Sam Davies) come in or it'll be more of the same.

[Guest]

The absolute best coach the Dragons could have hoped for. Has his flaws but also has incredible strengths. Really underrated rugby brain and should at least make them competitive.

[Stone Motif]

Yep agreed, we've done better by some margin this time, considering the last charlatan we took on.

[RiscaGame]

Easily done better. It’s not like he has been out of work, coming from a role in development like he has. It is perfect for us. Maybe the likes of Babos and Edwards might be brought back in now, rather than played just to assist an anything goes season that Jackman went for. Also, he’s now immediately able to concentrate on his new job unlike others.

First point of business should be ignoring what Ceri etc wanted and re-sign Jason Tovey. Then I’ll never doubt him, no matter what.

[Guest]

Quite happy with that. Good luck Dean Ryan.

[maestegmafia]

Ryan always talks a good game as a pundit and to be fair when he has had a team in the premiership he hasn’t had the budget for a squad as rich as other more recognised coaches. This could be a good decision.

He was at the dragons before in some capacity and I can’t remember what involvement he had whether good or bad... anyone recall?

[Guest]

Ryan always talks a good game as a pundit and to be fair when he has had a team in the premiership he hasn’t had the budget for a squad as rich as other more recognised coaches. This could be a good decision.

He was at the dragons before in some capacity and I can’t remember what involvement he had whether good or bad... anyone recall?

Yes, I'd forgotten about that. Some sort of consultant role I think?

[maestegmafia]

Ryan always talks a good game as a pundit and to be fair when he has had a team in the premiership he hasn’t had the budget for a squad as rich as other more recognised coaches. This could be a good decision.

He was at the dragons before in some capacity and I can’t remember what involvement he had whether good or bad... anyone recall?

Yes, I'd forgotten about that.  Some sort of consultant role I think?

Post Paul turner I think?

[Stone Motif]

Ryan always talks a good game as a pundit and to be fair when he has had a team in the premiership he hasn’t had the budget for a squad as rich as other more recognised coaches. This could be a good decision.

He was at the dragons before in some capacity and I can’t remember what involvement he had whether good or bad... anyone recall?

Yes, I'd forgotten about that.  Some sort of consultant role I think?

Helped out Darren Edwards for a bit.

Hoping his role scouring the Commonwealth for pacific islanders might pay dividends.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ryan always talks a good game as a pundit and to be fair when he has had a team in the premiership he hasn’t had the budget for a squad as rich as other more recognised coaches. This could be a good decision.

He was at the dragons before in some capacity and I can’t remember what involvement he had whether good or bad... anyone recall?

Yes, I'd forgotten about that.  Some sort of consultant role I think?

Helped out Darren Edwards for a bit.

Hoping his role scouring the Commonwealth for pacific islanders might pay dividends.

Yes please!

[Stone Motif]

Sage stuffed, amongst others:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17617620.jason-toveys-third-spell-over-as-dragons-confirm-leavers/

Must be confident of landing Sam Davies. Plus we'll need more props now, right?

[RiscaGame]

Crazy to release Sage, given he was first choice. I didn’t agree with him starting, but the fact is he did constantly. So pointless now. Froze out Dixon and Edwards for nothing.

I don’t agree with releasing Tovey either. I don’t see us signing Davies and he’s a better back up than Robson and especially Botica.

[Guest]

*warning - doom and gloom post*

Lots of players released according to that article. Possible more on the way. The problem is though that, unless those players were on inflated wages for some reason (which I doubt), assuming the budget will be the same or similar then we’re only going to be able to replace those players with ones of a similar street value. So the desire to get really good props or more quality second rows - and I’m one of the ones calling for this - I can’t see it happening unless the budget drastically changes. Maybe this is just obvious. But it often seems overlooked. The alternative is we go for a smaller squad with a higher value/cost of individual players within it. But then we run the risk of not being able to cover well for injuries etc.

Leaving or left:
Tovey
Sage
Kirchner
Henson
Suter
Rhodri Davies
Gerard Ellis
Gasson
Amos
Calvin Wellington
James Thomas
Landman

Amos would have been a relatively high earner I guess. Henson - wasn’t he on a game by game payment plan?! So not sure we save much there. Kirchner - high salary? Landman? The rest can’t have been on much so direct replacements for them won’t equal much spending wise if the budget doesn’t improve drastically, IMO. Might be a case of moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. Again.

[mikey_dragon]

Good to see some of the guff picked up by Jackman is going, but surprised that Huw Taylor isn't also leaving? I would have kept Tovey and Sage.

[Stone Motif]

*warning - doom and gloom post*

Lots of players released according to that article. Possible more on the way. The problem is though that, unless those players were on inflated wages for some reason (which I doubt), assuming the budget will be the same or similar then we’re only going to be able to replace those players with ones of a similar street value. So the desire to get really good props or more quality second rows - and I’m one of the ones calling for this - I can’t see it happening unless the budget drastically changes. Maybe this is just obvious. But it often seems overlooked. The alternative is we go for a smaller squad with a higher value/cost of individual players within it. But then we run the risk of not being able to cover well for injuries etc.

Leaving or left:
Tovey
Sage
Kirchner
Henson
Suter
Rhodri Davies
Gerard Ellis
Gasson
Amos
Calvin Wellington
James Thomas
Landman

Amos would have been a relatively high earner I guess. Henson - wasn’t he on a game by game payment plan?! So not sure we save much there. Kirchner - high salary? Landman? The rest can’t have been on much so direct replacements for them won’t equal much spending wise if the budget doesn’t improve drastically, IMO. Might be a case of moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. Again.  

A lot of those were signings made by an O'Crook stealing a living mind, who went on a throwing sh1te at a wall spree being well out of his depth an all.

A better coach will almost certainly rinse more value out of what is admittedly still a meagre budget. What we need to avoid for starters is filling up the books with wings and blindsides (hello Bernard) as they're ten a penny. Particularly if they're current Wales internationals...if Amos ends up tackle-bagging for Wales we could be glad he left, and it would go some way to clawing back some of the catastrophic mis-spend we made on Moriarty. If we lose Wainwright because of that vanity signing I'll be tamping.

We need to look shrewdly at guys not quite good enough for test level, internationals won't add value in a squad as thin as ours. I omit the front fivers from that, as they tend to play fairly regularly and I don't think we can sign a better lock than Hill or hooker than Dee.

Tovey, and Landman (still) are mystifying decisions unless we have signings made.

[RiscaGame]

From what I have been told, they are chasing Sam Davies and going all out on that. If they get burnt there (and I believe they will), then they're pretty screwed.

I wonder if Dean Ryan would've kept some of the players we released?

[Stone Motif]

From what I have been told, they are chasing Sam Davies and going all out on that. If they get burnt there (and I believe they will), then they're pretty screwed.

I wonder if Dean Ryan would've kept some of the players we released?

Spose they're banking on no other pro side wanting Tovey and him being handy at Newport or Pooler next season if required?

Davies is the kind of player we should look at, not quite test level, better than we have, likely to be there year round. If only Owen Williams wasn't travelling with such an over inflated price tag these days eh?

[RiscaGame]

I don’t mind us going after Sam Davies, I just don’t see players with ambition like he must have coming to us. Yeah, I’d definitely prefer Williams. Wonder whether they’re similarly banded players?

[RiscaGame]

Thing with Tovey is he would undoubtedly help us out again. I’m just not sure whether a prem side would take him. Not sure what Pooler have and I am pretty confident saying Newport wouldn’t sign him.

[Stone Motif]

Been told Pooler are chucking silly money about, Prem players from all over queueing up to join, so guess they can take their pick to some extent.

With Sam, frozen out by his current region, short of caps if he genuinely is ambitious to play for Wales again to ove abroad...

[RiscaGame]

Yeah, Pooler have been paying for a while. I’m sure Matthews and Nash et al didn’t want to play Championship.

Seen Landman has been removed off some of the Dragons players released things? Strange ha.

[Guest]

*warning - doom and gloom post*

Lots of players released according to that article. Possible more on the way. The problem is though that, unless those players were on inflated wages for some reason (which I doubt), assuming the budget will be the same or similar then we’re only going to be able to replace those players with ones of a similar street value. So the desire to get really good props or more quality second rows - and I’m one of the ones calling for this - I can’t see it happening unless the budget drastically changes. Maybe this is just obvious. But it often seems overlooked. The alternative is we go for a smaller squad with a higher value/cost of individual players within it. But then we run the risk of not being able to cover well for injuries etc.

Leaving or left:
Tovey
Sage
Kirchner
Henson
Suter
Rhodri Davies
Gerard Ellis
Gasson
Amos
Calvin Wellington
James Thomas
Landman

Amos would have been a relatively high earner I guess. Henson - wasn’t he on a game by game payment plan?! So not sure we save much there. Kirchner - high salary? Landman? The rest can’t have been on much so direct replacements for them won’t equal much spending wise if the budget doesn’t improve drastically, IMO. Might be a case of moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. Again.  

A lot of those were signings made by an O'Crook stealing a living mind, who went on a throwing sh1te at a wall spree being well out of his depth an all.

A better coach will almost certainly rinse more value out of what is admittedly still a meagre budget.  What we need to avoid for starters is filling up the books with wings and blindsides (hello Bernard) as they're ten a penny. Particularly if they're current Wales internationals...if Amos ends up tackle-bagging for Wales we could be glad he left, and it would go some way to clawing back some of the catastrophic mis-spend we made on Moriarty. If we lose Wainwright because of that vanity signing I'll be tamping.

We need to look shrewdly at guys not quite good enough for test level, internationals won't add value in a squad as thin as ours. I omit the front fivers from that, as they tend to play fairly regularly and I don't think we can sign a better lock than Hill or hooker than Dee.

Tovey, and Landman (still) are mystifying decisions unless we have signings made.

Yeah, don’t disagree with any of that. You’re right about the Moriarty thing. I can see what they were doing - trying to get a marquee player in as a catalyst for more fans, more interest, generating more income, etc. and a snowball effect. But spunking 10% of the budget on 1 player was a bit daft. They had to show ambition but that was a bit too ambitious and as Moriarty has shown one man cannot make much difference in his own.

Ceri Jones has shown that it’s not just down to the playing squad. Jackman just didn’t get anywhere near the best out of the team and Jones, as inexperienced as he is, has managed more in a few games than Jackman managed in a season and a half. So hopefully someone as experienced as Ryan will be able to wring a little bit more out than Jones. And Ryan will have more experience of bringing players through and signing players in a competitive environment than Jones and Jackman combined. Just hope he sticks it out through thick and thin because he seems to have a habit of walking in previous roles (or falling out and being pushed).

[Stone Motif]

Yeah, Pooler have been paying for a while. I’m sure Matthews and Nash et al didn’t want to play Championship.

Seen Landman has been removed off some of the Dragons players released things? Strange ha.

Like Merthyr levels for next season

[Stone Motif]

*warning - doom and gloom post*

Lots of players released according to that article. Possible more on the way. The problem is though that, unless those players were on inflated wages for some reason (which I doubt), assuming the budget will be the same or similar then we’re only going to be able to replace those players with ones of a similar street value. So the desire to get really good props or more quality second rows - and I’m one of the ones calling for this - I can’t see it happening unless the budget drastically changes. Maybe this is just obvious. But it often seems overlooked. The alternative is we go for a smaller squad with a higher value/cost of individual players within it. But then we run the risk of not being able to cover well for injuries etc.

Leaving or left:
Tovey
Sage
Kirchner
Henson
Suter
Rhodri Davies
Gerard Ellis
Gasson
Amos
Calvin Wellington
James Thomas
Landman

Amos would have been a relatively high earner I guess. Henson - wasn’t he on a game by game payment plan?! So not sure we save much there. Kirchner - high salary? Landman? The rest can’t have been on much so direct replacements for them won’t equal much spending wise if the budget doesn’t improve drastically, IMO. Might be a case of moving the deckchairs on the Titanic. Again.  

A lot of those were signings made by an O'Crook stealing a living mind, who went on a throwing sh1te at a wall spree being well out of his depth an all.

A better coach will almost certainly rinse more value out of what is admittedly still a meagre budget.  What we need to avoid for starters is filling up the books with wings and blindsides (hello Bernard) as they're ten a penny. Particularly if they're current Wales internationals...if Amos ends up tackle-bagging for Wales we could be glad he left, and it would go some way to clawing back some of the catastrophic mis-spend we made on Moriarty. If we lose Wainwright because of that vanity signing I'll be tamping.

We need to look shrewdly at guys not quite good enough for test level, internationals won't add value in a squad as thin as ours. I omit the front fivers from that, as they tend to play fairly regularly and I don't think we can sign a better lock than Hill or hooker than Dee.

Tovey, and Landman (still) are mystifying decisions unless we have signings made.

Yeah, don’t disagree with any of that. You’re right about the Moriarty thing. I can see what they were doing - trying to get a marquee player in as a catalyst for more fans, more interest, generating more income, etc. and a snowball effect. But spunking 10% of the budget on 1 player was a bit daft. They had to show ambition but that was a bit too ambitious and as Moriarty has shown one man cannot make much difference in his own.

Ceri Jones has shown that it’s not just down to the playing squad. Jackman just didn’t get anywhere near the best out of the team and Jones, as inexperienced as he is, has managed more in a few games than Jackman managed in a season and a half. So hopefully someone as experienced as Ryan will be able to wring a little bit more out than Jones. And Ryan will have more experience of bringing players through and signing players in a competitive environment than Jones and Jackman combined. Just hope he sticks it out through thick and thin because he seems to have a habit of walking in previous roles (or falling out and being pushed).

If someone can coach our lot to defend, they'll look a lot better.

Positions we most lack in are 10, 15 and 8 at the moment. If we got Sam Davies we can't really hope for better with our budget, 15 who knows, no 8 if Cardiff get shafted trying to keep big Nick I'd have him for a season.

[mikey_dragon]

Nick Williams is a good shout. Despicable idea trying to get rid of him in order to sign another open-side. Williams also shows no sign of aging on the rugby pitch, I'm confident he could go on for almost as long as Flilise!

[RiscaGame]

Nick Williams to Merthyr, King Jason Tovey to Cardiff RFC.

No confirmed signings for Dragons yet. Of course, we wouldn't have made more than two probably, but it would be nice to think we might make a couple of decent ones (key positions). All this squad cutting must add up to something.

[RiscaGame]

Interesting Prem next season mind. Four teams that can pay money (assuming Pooler will come up to join Merthyr, Cardiff and RGC) and then 8 that will be in a league of their own.

I hear Pooler are signing a ten, but maybe not a pro player. If the whisper of Tovey is true, then Steff Jones could be the one to move to Pooler.

[mikey_dragon]

Is Williams playing at Merthyr his loophole back to playing for the Blues?

[Stone Motif]

Dane Blacker headed to Scarlets apparently. Any chance Jonathan Evans may be coming home?

[RiscaGame]

Would be a good signing, but not a necessary one. To be fair, I liked Blacker for us too.

[Stone Motif]

Depends how much Babos has kicked in I guess, probably struggled playing for Keys this season.

[Stone Motif]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/seven-players-definitely-leaving-ospreys-16258339

Don't get any stupid ideas, Ceri.

[VinceWLB]

Surprised they are getting rid of Jeffries, looked decent whenever i have seen him and still very young...

[Stone Motif]

Surprised they are getting rid of Jeffries, looked decent whenever i have seen him and still very young...

He's one of ours originally, just don't want any more project players, especially in the front five.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Dean Ryan confirmed:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/17638296.dragons-confirm-ryan-as-new-boss-and-put-him-on-the-board/

[RiscaGame]

Interesting to put him on the board.

I am eagerly awaiting the press conference for more info, such as what Ceri is doing etc.

[Guest]

So is this like a Director of Rugby role, or does DOR not have a boardroom remit either? I guess that still leaves a head coach role open for Ceri Jones?

[Guest]

Is it too early to start a new season thread?! Nothing left for us to do on any front this season!

[mikey_dragon]

What is disheartening are the persistent rumours of us chasing Sam Davies. Seen it via WOL which continues to appear on my newsfeed

[RiscaGame]

Why not. Year 1 of the 5 year plan.

[Stone Motif]

Gonna hold my judgement on this one. Like that he indicated that we will hold off til after the world cup before looking at signings, and that he has shown that he gets that recruitment is the top priority and the interface between players available to him and the game plan; two things Bernie O'Magicbeans did not. Sam Davies would be sensible, not much else out there now that would be.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Is it too early to start a new season thread?!  Nothing left for us to do on any front this season!

May as well set up threads for the other regions too

[mikey_dragon]

After watching the play-off can anyone honestly say that Davies would be a good signing for us?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Really good interview here. The Dragons clearly mean a lot to him.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17652210.dragons-coach-jones-ready-to-rekindle-relationship-with-ryan/

[RiscaGame]

Hard not to like Ceri really. To be fair, he is doing pretty well with the forwards too and didn’t do too bad as head coach as a stand in. He was really friendly on the plane back from Galway in Nov too, making more of an effort to chat to people than other coaches.

[Stone Motif]

Now as much as I'm against signing more wingers when we have other priorities, if Tom James still has anything left that'd be worth a look.

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