England - the winter tours thread

[Gooseberry]

First topic message reminder :

No Jofra then

Turns out he doesn’t actually qualify until March - so couldn’t make the West Indies tour

...and Smiths being more guarded about him for the world cup than the press hype has been.

But he is eligible for the T20s on this tour, for which the squad hasnt been named yet if he pulls out of the BBL. Aside form that theres just the 5 match warm up series against Pakistan for him to be capped before the world cup.

Smith does seem to think Denly can make a case for inclusion in the world cup squad, so despite him not getting much cricket in sri lanka, struggling with the bat, and only being a replacement for Dawson in the ODI squad he must be doing something right.

Of the two though you'd think Archer had more potential to improve Englands first XI on home pitches.

[VTR]

Wasim's highest Test score by a number 8 is looking under threat here. And probably a whole host of other records, but that is a very significant one

[VTR]

Also notable 9 overs all innings for Rashid. I don't think Root ever wanted him in the team

[Duty281]

They shouldn’t declare today - two whole days left, and with a test next week put the overs in the legs of stokes and Anderson

48 overs from Anderson and 50 from Stokes so far in this test. Meanwhile, Rashid has only sent over 9 in this innings and is in danger of being eclipsed by Jennings.

[Duty281]

West Indies declare after Holder reaches his first double ton. Personally, I'd have kept England out there for the rest of the day.

To allow Holder and Dowrich to have accumulated a 295 run partnership is almost as disgraceful as being bowled out for 77.

Anyway, 628 to win in about 200 overs.

[VTR]

That has to be the worst partnership that England have ever conceded. I am not even exaggerating for once. There are possibly some Test careers on the line in England's innings, so it's not without I interest.

[guildfordbat]

At great risk of jinxing it for Burns and/or Jennings - can we see a full day of Test cricket without a wicket?

[Duty281]

18 wickets yesterday, (so far) 0 today.

Maybe the track has died overnight and England will win by ten wickets?

[VTR]

Maybe I'll die overnight and won't have to see us lose by 400 runs!

[Duty281]

Now, now, you wouldn't want to miss the greatest comeback since Headingley '81!

Under 600 to win.

[VTR]

Well we did nearly win once chasing almost 700, damn 1930s boat timetables cost us that one. This could be similar

[robbo277]

Just take it 10 runs at a time. 10 runs are easy.

59 more batches of 10 and we're there.

[Duty281]

Well that's the first part over. Alfie will be relieved to see England aren't five down!

A tidy, watchful start from the openers, and Burns played a few nice shots. England must aim to bat out tomorrow. And with some wet weather forecast for Sunday, maybe a highly undeserved draw isn't that far away.

[robbo277]

Well that's the first part over. Alfie will be relieved to see England aren't five down!

A tidy, watchful start from the openers, and Burns played a few nice shots. England must aim to bat out tomorrow. And with some wet weather forecast for Sunday, maybe a highly undeserved draw isn't that far away.

One thing you often get with England is one brings two or three wickets in a cluster. With absolutely no pressure in the game to score, we need to increase focus after breaks and after wickets. No cheap wickets after drinks, no clusters of wickets. Get these two to see out the first hour. Get a couple of guys to book in for hundreds. Try and finish tomorrow only 3 down, even if we don't get many runs and take the win out the game.

If we can get to Day 5 with 7 wickets to play with, 110 overs in the bowlers legs, no frontline spinner and a bit of weather about, then we may make the draw favourite. And even if we don't finish it, at least we have something to build on for the next test.

[Gooseberry]

Hey how did the fight back from England go today then guys?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

18 wickets yesterday, (so far) 0 today.

Maybe the track has died overnight and England will win by ten wickets?

18 wickets to zero in consecutive days - test cricket is bonkers

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Oh also england are all out by tea tomorrow - take it to the bank

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Oh also england are all out by tea tomorrow - take it to the bank

100%, no way this resilience lasts. Burns in particular should take great encouragement from what they’ve just done, in a game where encouragement is lacking, but England definitely have dull and inevitable collapse incoming

[LondonTiger]

A weird old day. England often start these hopeless rearguard actions well only to fold after a nights rest. This test has gone but there is a chance for players to show some character.

[Duty281]

Oh also england are all out by tea tomorrow - take it to the bank

SkyBet make it 2/1 that the game finishes tomorrow and 5/4 that England are bowled out for under 350.

I actually think England will take it to day five, but maybe that's misplaced.

[alfie]

This has to be one of the weirdest Test Matches in recent memory...

Eighteen wicket day followed by no wicket day ?  Guess suggestions pitch would "flatten out" were correct

Setting 628 to win exceeded even my imagination...but I did think England had basically given up before lunch so I guess the West Indies score was only going to be limited by their batsmen's appetites...

Good to see Jennings and Burns summoned the concentration to bat out the day . As has been suggested above the innings may well fold up once the inevitable breakthrough comes but at least they've done the first stage : bat an hour or two tomorrow and the bowling side might just start to feel some of the frustration the England boys did today.
Obviously (unless it rains a lot) this is only ending one way. And in a way runs scored in this situation don't really mean much (I doubt they'll be rushing Denly into the side next week anyway. These "no non-Test matches" tours tend to leave you stuck with the original batting lineup for better or worse) but the longer they keep it going the better : practice for the bats , fatigue for the opposition bowlers.

Have to again praise the much derided West Indies outfit for totally outplaying an overconfident England in this match.  Two more matches could of course turn this series around ; but I'm not betting on it. Suspect the Sri Lankan success has given us all a totally unrealistic view of the strength of this England team.  They aren't rubbish ; but a number of players are still learning on the job and the balance of the team is absurdly skewed by Ed Smith's selection system of tossing talented players into the mix without really considering how to make a coherent whole out of the disparate parts.

They will probably win by an innings next week and everything will be fine again ...until the next disaster

[wisden]

Wasn't expecting the openers to get through there so well done to them! But only a matter of time before Jennings snicks off again!

[Duty281]

Well that's the first part over. Alfie will be relieved to see England aren't five down!

A tidy, watchful start from the openers, and Burns played a few nice shots. England must aim to bat out tomorrow. And with some wet weather forecast for Sunday, maybe a highly undeserved draw isn't that far away.

One thing you often get with England is one brings two or three wickets in a cluster. With absolutely no pressure in the game to score, we need to increase focus after breaks and after wickets. No cheap wickets after drinks, no clusters of wickets. Get these two to see out the first hour. Get a couple of guys to book in for hundreds. Try and finish tomorrow only 3 down, even if we don't get many runs and take the win out the game.

If we can get to Day 5 with 7 wickets to play with, 110 overs in the bowlers legs, no frontline spinner and a bit of weather about, then we may make the draw favourite. And even if we don't finish it, at least we have something to build on for the next test.

Weather forecast for Sunday has taken a turn for the worse, so England actually have a genuine chance of a draw IF they bat through today. Big innings for some of the players, especially the openers. 180 overs is almost certainly too much to bat through, but if some rain cuts that down to 120 overs, England may have a chance.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/0/3374036

[VTR]

Interesting forecast, lots of lightening bolts on there. England can draw this if everyone applies themselves. The reality is they'll probably play loads of flashy drives and be out by tea.

[guildfordbat]

You can never tell for certain what will happen with follow on decisions but I believe the West Indies would have put this Test to bed already if they had put England in again.

[alfie]

You can never tell for certain what will happen with follow on decisions but I believe the West Indies would have put this Test to bed already if they had put England in again.

They probably would...but on the other hand they wouldn't have forced Jimmy and Stokes to bowl fifty overs each. If one or both of them are significantly reduced for the next match as a result I wouldn't give much for England's chance of getting back into the series. Sounds a bit ruthless but I'm sure it came into their calculations.

Would be amusing if rain saved the tourists though. (Highly unlikely there will be enough - or even that they'll bat long enough to see it )

[guildfordbat]

I’m very ok with watching Shimron Hetmyer bat. Very ok indeed

''I think Shimron Hetmyer is going to be one of the stars of world batting. I hope the Windies look after him properly and we see a lot of him in Test cricket.'' - Rob Key.

[guildfordbat]

You can never tell for certain what will happen with follow on decisions but I believe the West Indies would have put this Test to bed already if they had put England in again.

They probably would...but on the other hand they wouldn't have forced Jimmy and Stokes to bowl fifty overs each.   If one or both of them are significantly reduced for the next match as a result I wouldn't give much for England's chance of getting back into the series.  Sounds a bit ruthless but I'm sure it came into their calculations.

Would be amusing if rain saved the tourists though.   (Highly unlikely there will be enough - or even that they'll bat long enough to see it )

Hi Alfie - oh yes, I follow that reasoning along the lines I appreciated Robbo's approach the other day.

I would just be keen to make sure I won the current Test before thinking too much about the next one. If you can win this one by an innings, you should have the confidence and ability to win the next one as well.

[guildfordbat]

50 runs for Burns. Never a score to be sniffed at but meaningless in the current context of this match.

England really need him to go on to 300 ... balls faced that is. He has the time and opportunity.

[Duty281]

Not too sure how long Jennings will last, but Burns is looking in excellent touch.

[guildfordbat]

Not too sure how long Jennings will last, but Burns is looking in excellent touch.

''Not much longer'' is the answer, Duty.

Good catch by Holder off Joseph's bowling but poor batting from Jennings.

[Duty281]

Jennings nicks behind, good catch. Please Lord, don't let him be opening the batting against Starc!

[It Must Be Love]

I feel sorry for Jennings, why do they keep putting him through this?

[It Must Be Love]

You can never tell for certain what will happen with follow on decisions but I believe the West Indies would have put this Test to bed already if they had put England in again.

I don't understand this obsession with not enforcing the follow on. It makes sense if the bowlers could get tired, but not in cases like this.

[Duty281]

Jennings' technique against fast bowlers is so poor, I'm astonished he's an opening batsman. Denly has to come in for the next test, even if it is a very short-term solution.

[VTR]

Yeah Jennings had to be an Asian tour specialist. Which is odd but against fast bowling he is a huge no

[guildfordbat]

Yeah Jennings had to be an Asian tour specialist. Which is odd but against fast bowling he is a huge no

It's odd though because Jennings honed his skills as an opener and did well at Durham which is much favoured by seamers and traditionally a graveyard for spinners.

[guildfordbat]

Meanwhile, Ward talking on Sky about England batting deep. Yes, but can many of them bat time? That has to be the main question here.

[alfie]

117/1... Pity they couldn't do this on Thursday.

You Surrey chaps should be pleased with the way your man Burns has gone about his work in this innings. Much more positive this time around ; has driven well through the covers and put away the short ball square .
He had a couple of handy if not large innings in Sri Lanka : this innings just might be the making of him ; though he just had a bit of luck then ! Sparred at one and only just evaded the hands of a diving Holder at slip... On to 81.

[Gooseberry]

People said that Jennings century might be the making of him.
It's welcome of course, and shows he has some mental sttength, but we have seen a bowler pass 200 in this game so its no miracle.

Im refusing to say anything positive about England in this game...even if they win it

[Duty281]

Burns' defence is soundly beaten and that has ripped the heart out of the English rearguard on the stroke of lunch. He has flirted with danger occasionally, but he looked well set to make a century.

Now, where's the rain?

[alfie]

Only a first step , Goose... But still it's a bit more substantial than twenties and forties.

Pity he's got out to the part time spinner on the stroke of lunch

Ah well : I can turn in now without feeling guilty for not shepherding him to his century...

Under five hundred to get now , chaps so see if you can knock off a couple of hundred more today please...goodnight all

[msp83]

The track lost life since day 3, further justifying Holder's decision to bat on. I would have had them batting on even further yesterday. Bat on till the track would start to disintegrate if you can with that much time available in the game. Its England and they can undo all this in a session, but this is likely to go down to another 4 sessions I feell. England's batting depth might even produce something special at the end of it all, they may just save it, if the pitch stays good for most of the day today, and if there is some help from the weather.

[Duty281]

Joe Root out from the fourth ball of the afternoon...but a no-ball reprieves him. Costly, much?

Also, it was such a big no-ball, that I'm astonished the umpire didn't register it in real-time.

[Duty281]

Gabriel gets a deserved wicket as Bairstow nicks behind. Good spell this, full of pace and hostility.

West Indies all over England right now and are, perhaps, sensing another collapse.

[Duty281]

A DRS review saves Stokes from an umpiring howler.

England just clinging on.

[msp83]

Joe Root out from the fourth ball of the afternoon...but a no-ball reprieves him. Costly, much?

Also, it was such a big no-ball, that I'm astonished the umpire didn't register it in real-time.

Ricky Ponting, during the India-Australia series mentioned on commentary that the umpires seem to have stopped noticing no-balls. They seem to check only when there is a wicket these days. Think the ICC should be more proactive on this and tell the umpires to get their act together, though it is indeed a difficult job...

[Duty281]

Shannon Gabriel hobbles off. Implications for the rest of the series, perhaps.

[Duty281]

Stokes is struggling massively - looks horrendously out of form - but it's Root who is the fourth to go. Chase, again, popping up with a wicket just short of an interval. Tame dismissal.

Over today?

[VTR]

Now being bowled out by Roston Chase. The humiliation gets worse and worse. Though Nathaniel will probably be on here in a minute to tell me he's the best offspinner since Murali

[VTR]

Murali strikes again. This batting line up is good to last a hundred overs max. It usually works out OK with runs at a decent run rate, but obviously the 77 all out was always going to be terminal

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