6 Nations - Ireland v England (Part 2)

First topic message reminder :

Part 1 - https://www.606v2.com/t68214-6-nations-ireland-v-england-2nd-feb-2019

Details:

Date: Saturday 2nd February 2019
Time: 16:45 GMT
Location: Dublin, Aviva Stadium
Media Coverage: ITV, TV3, BBC (highlights only), Radio 5Live


Officials


Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant 1: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant 2: Alexandre Ruiz (France)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)



Teams

Ireland

15 Robbie Henshaw, 14 Keith Earls, 13 Garry Ringrose, 12 Bundee Aki, 11 Jacob Stockdale, 10 Johnny Sexton, 9 Conor Murray; 1 Cian Healy, 2 Rory Best, 3 Tadhg Furlong, 4 Devin Toner, 5 James Ryan, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 7 Josh van der Flier, 8 CJ Stander.

16 Sean Cronin, 17 Dave Kilcoyne, 18 Andrew Porter, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Sean O'Brien, 21 John Cooney, 22 Joey Carbery, 23 Jordan Larmour


England

15 Elliot Daly (Wasps, 25 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 40 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps), 12 Manu Tuiagi (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps), 11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 29 caps), 10 Owen Farrell (Saracens, 65 caps), 9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 80 caps); 1 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 51 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens, 32 caps), 3 Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 17 caps), 4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 26 caps), 5 George Kruis (Saracens, 27 caps), 6 Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons, 8 caps), 7 Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 5 caps), 8 Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 36 caps).

16 Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps), 17 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 15 caps), 19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 68 caps), 20 Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 18 caps), 21 Dan Robson (Wasps, uncapped), 22 George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 51 caps), 23 Chris Ashton (Sale Sharks, 42 caps).

See,a fully fit scrum half and suddenly Ireland look dangerous. Wonder if Murray will get 76 minutes game time next week?

Ireland get nothing. No offence to the decent Irish fans on here but with the amount your media gave it the big un, that was brilliant.

Well done England!

Well that puts Brian O'Driscoll's arrogant comment that no English player would be picked for Ireland well into context. Today the reverse applied.

A great win for England and well deserved, but you do have to say, what happened to Ireland? That was as poor as we have seen from them in a long time!

sensisball wrote:See,a fully fit scrum half and suddenly Ireland look dangerous. Wonder if Murray will get 76 minutes game time next week?

Well done. Getting your excuses in within seconds of the finish.

Definitely wasn't expecting that! Can't remember the last time we looked that strong against Ireland, thanks to the Irish fans for their sporting comments.

For us, the Itoje injury is a bit of a worry, and we need to make sure we continue in this form. We won the first two comprehensively last year then fell apart, just want to see this kind of physicality and clinical attack continue for the rest of the year!

sensisball wrote:See,a fully fit scrum half and suddenly Ireland look dangerous. Wonder if Murray will get 76 minutes game time next week?

Kearney back to full back, O'Brien to start and (won't happen) Cronin to start at 2...

Fantastic defence from England won them that game.  Ireland with plenty of ball but no answer to the linespeed and tackling.  England denied Ireland any space at all.

BigGee wrote:A great win for England and well deserved, but you do have to say, what happened to Ireland? That was as poor as we have seen from them in a long time!

To be honest the tackling and physical pressure really told. What I would say is interesting is that the Irish kicking game, which can be so brilliant, was mostly absent

Did not expect to go to Dublin and come away with a BP win and nothing for Ireland...huge result.

Forwards put in an immense shift, dominated Ireland up front.

Ireland aren't good at chasing a game, you've got to come out of the blocks hard and put them under pressure. EJ got today's game spot on.

EnglishReign wrote:Ireland get nothing. No offence to the decent Irish fans on here but with the amount your media gave it the big un, that was brilliant.

I hate all media equally so non taken.

Congrats on the win!

Exiledinborders wrote:Well that puts Brian O'Driscoll's arrogant comment that no English player would be picked for Ireland well into context. Today the reverse applied.

Did he really say that? Daft thing to say, England aren’t always firing and they can be got at but they’re a top top side.

Possibly the most physical/carrying side we've ever put out....and Ireland just couldn't cope. Pretty much in control from the off, really didn't expect that. Very impressive.

Exiledinborders wrote:

sensisball wrote:See,a fully fit scrum half and suddenly Ireland look dangerous. Wonder if Murray will get 76 minutes game time next week?

Well done. Getting your excuses in within seconds of the finish.

He's a France supporter. But England have just taken the pressure off

BigGee wrote:A great win for England and well deserved, but you do have to say, what happened to Ireland? That was as poor as we have seen from them in a long time!

England denied them any time, space and momentum.  Continually tackling behind the gameline and pushing them back.  Combine that with a not great Irish positioning allowing Farrell to kick into space.

Forgot to say well done England. Tactics and performance were spot on. Really not looking forward to Scotland going to Twickers!

Well England turned that potential into performance. Congratulations you were superb. Deserved it. Your defence was fantastic didn't give us an inch of room.
Fantastic from England.

Considering the leeway that Garces gave Ireland, that's a bloody impressive performance. Hope there aren't too many injuries for next week.

Eejit wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Well that puts Brian O'Driscoll's arrogant comment that no English player would be picked for Ireland well into context. Today the reverse applied.

Did he really say that? Daft thing to say, England aren’t always firing and they can be got at but they’re a top top side.

No. I checked. He said only one would.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/rugby/brian-odriscoll-only-one-england-player-would-make-the-ireland-team-899500.html

Lost
I'm actually a Scotland supporter,France are my second team! I wasn't actually making excuses for Ireland, i just dont think Murray has recovered from his illness/ injury to be fit enough to play at Int. level yet. His slow service didn't help Ireland's cause today.

Well done England. When they had the ball they actually looked like they could spark something unlike Ireland and their boring wrap arounds and box kicks. Ireland were very underwhelming for a team that is hyped up so much.

ebop wrote:Well done England. When they had the ball they actually looked like they could spark something unlike Ireland and their boring wrap arounds and box kicks. Ireland were very underwhelming for a team that is hyped up so much.

They beat the All Blacks last time out, though.

I just hope England haven't given away too many of their tactics ahead of the rest of the 6N and the RWC.

ebop wrote:Well done England. When they had the ball they actually looked like they could spark something unlike Ireland and their boring wrap arounds and box kicks. Ireland were very underwhelming for a team that is hyped up so much.

Wonder how much John Mitchels hand was on the tiller for this one. England were up so quick in defence and dominant in the tackle (more so in the first half) Ireland couldn't get anything going and couldn't adapt (or didn't have a plan b)

Yoda wrote:

Goosestepper wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-why-england-cant-break-down-ireland-and-where-the-irish-weak-spots-are

For those interested... well thought out article, it will be interesting to see how positional changes affect a different outcome. Conditions in Dublin look perfect

Blimey it's like having your deficiencies thrown in your face. It took a lot of time to say something very simple, England's kicking game not world class (well bugger my Love sacks), our forwards aren't great at link play again no s**t sherlock. I thought our attack has looked a lot better since we have played with a balanced back row and that's why care has been binned because his kicking isn't up to scratch. We will be more balanced than last year I hope and I wouldn't be supposed if nowell didn't end up fielding a lot of balls in full back interchanging with daly. Hopefully we will prove a little bit more cerebral than last year which wouldn't be difficult.

Got that one horribly wrong!

Ireland are still the standard in the 6N, I'd be very surprised if they lost another game, it's why I was shouting at the TV at the end in the hope we wouldn't give them a losing bonus point

Exiledinborders wrote:Well that puts Brian O'Driscoll's arrogant comment that no English player would be picked for Ireland well into context. Today the reverse applied.

I don't mind people saying that, because teams are so structured these days, you'd be bound to pick your own player unless there's clear daylight. Where some pundits went wrong is assuming that makes the whole team clearly better. Having said that, I'd imagine most England supporters thought we could win but, if pushed, expected a loss.

I'm delighted for England that we've conjured up a good win. Commiserations to Ireland but I suspect that will be a real stimulus for them, and they'll want to take it out on the other teams.

Those numbers from Mako are huge, 25 tackles and 11 carries is ridiculous.

Wow well done England really caught them napping

miaow wrote:

Yoda wrote:

Goosestepper wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-why-england-cant-break-down-ireland-and-where-the-irish-weak-spots-are

For those interested... well thought out article, it will be interesting to see how positional changes affect a different outcome. Conditions in Dublin look perfect

Blimey it's like having your deficiencies thrown in your face. It took a lot of time to say something very simple, England's kicking game not world class (well bugger my Love sacks), our forwards aren't great at link play again no s**t sherlock. I thought our attack has looked a lot better since we have played with a balanced back row and that's why care has been binned because his kicking isn't up to scratch. We will be more balanced than last year I hope and I wouldn't be supposed if nowell didn't end up fielding a lot of balls in full back interchanging with daly. Hopefully we will prove a little bit more cerebral than last year which wouldn't be difficult.

Got that one horribly wrong!

Who got it wrong? the writer took a retrospective view of last years game, England came with a different game plan and executed it really well.
Also think we struggled with Henshaw at fullback, England exposed that really well especially Farrell who ran him ragged with kicks into the 22

BamBam wrote:Ireland are still the standard in the 6N, I'd be very surprised if they lost another game, it's why I was shouting at the TV at the end in the hope we wouldn't give them a losing bonus point

They certainly have been the past couple of years, but now other sides can see that they can be beaten. The 6N is a very hard competition, with a lot of good teams going at it full pelt, week after week. Ireland have now lost their invincibility cloak and it won't be quite so straight for them from here on in.

That does not make them a poor side, just that other countries will see that they can be beaten if they play as well as England did today.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Exiledinborders wrote:Well that puts Brian O'Driscoll's arrogant comment that no English player would be picked for Ireland well into context. Today the reverse applied.

I don't mind people saying that, because teams are so structured these days, you'd be bound to pick your own player unless there's clear daylight. Where some pundits went wrong is assuming that makes the whole team clearly better. Having said that, I'd imagine most England supporters thought we could win but, if pushed, expected a loss.

I'm delighted for England that we've conjured up a good win. Commiserations to Ireland but I suspect that will be a real stimulus for them, and they'll want to take it out on the other teams.

Ireland really slow out of the blocks - we got away with it last year in Paris but England showed up (Ireland could have played a lot better and still lost based on the English performance)

Wow what a great win for England. I all ways hoped England would win but playing Ireland in Ireland. I thought it was going to be  a big ask to be honest.

It sets up a great tournament now. No Grand slam this year for Ireland, But there is a chance that England could win a Grand Slam. beating Ireland is a big monkey off our back.

Too say that England have not won in Ireland in 6 years. It say a lot for England.

Some big hits going in and great defence from England all game.

Well played England.

Irish fans I remember 2013 where we lost to you in Cardiff, you were brilliant but we still won the championship and the first games result was the perfect wake up call...!

This championship is wide open

Poorfour wrote:

ebop wrote:Well done England. When they had the ball they actually looked like they could spark something unlike Ireland and their boring wrap arounds and box kicks. Ireland were very underwhelming for a team that is hyped up so much.

They beat the All Blacks last time out, though.

I just hope England haven't given away too many of their tactics ahead of the rest of the 6N and the RWC.

Part of why they lost here. Picking the important matches is key to top three success. The ABs have that better than most, for you cant win them all in todays game. This was important to Ireland, and they were way under prepared for the English aggression. Jones out thought Schmidt by a mile here. England bullied Ireland out of the game. Not the first time tgats happened.

What a win!!

Lovely to wake up to over here, didnt expect it but that just makes it even better.

maestegmafia wrote:Irish fans I remember 2013 where we lost to you in Cardiff, you were brilliant but we still won the championship and the first games result was the perfect wake up call...!

This championship is wide open

True and with Wales winning, they now have england and ireland at home. Its a wales england race now, ireland will drop one of the wales scotland away clashes based on the results so far, and the lost them both two years ago.

Tactical masterclass from England. Poor effort from Ireland but could still have won the game/made it a contest until the 80th minute had they adapted on the field.

A few big mistakes from them that started in midweek and continued into the game itself. Scoreline does flatter England ever so slightly - it was a close game for the most part, and the intercept try was dreadful from Ireland, and of course Slade's first came from a marginal call in the offside but a far less marginal call from the pass (it travels a good 4-5 yards forward, no 'momentum' call can justify that - we're back to the bad old days of 2014 of letting blatantly forward passes go with that call). That said, the consensus here seems to be that Garces favoured Ireland heavily - agree he let some obvious penalties go, but I felt he was incompetent all around. Didn't seem to want to police very much at all.

Murray outplayed by Ben Youngs. Sexton looked a bit prescriptive at times. PoM Ireland's best player by some distance. Good effort as well from the rest of the tight 5 but Rory Best's throwing again costs them at a crucial time - nearly led to 7 points on stroke of half time, instead resulted in 3. However good he is as a captain and in the loose he fails at the top level with his throwing far too frequently. If you can't do it in the white heat of pressure then you are a liability, and that is what he is.

However, the set piece in general was disappointing from Ireland. Especially when Hughes went to 2nd row, and Quinn Roux came on for Ireland, I expected some dominance there in the final 20. I think England got away with dropping the scrum, but both teams were guilty of not scrummaging straight. Garces, however, didn't bother resetting or refereeing it at all, and so every scrum was play on irrespective of a collapse. The lineout was about evens for both teams I felt, England ultimately able to use it as a platform in a way Ireland couldn't/didn't.

Kicking game was key. As was physicality. Rugby's such a simple game sometimes and yet England's tactics resulted in an utterly dominant performance from the 1st minute. The clear disparity between Ireland and the ABs is NZ adapt to the game in front of them - as they did against England in the autumn. Ireland failed to do so. Effectively, England were able to let Ireland fall on their own sword; it was lots of percentage play from England, lots of kicking to target Earls and Henshaw in the air with plenty of success.

England did get away with blocking runs when fielding Ireland's box kicking, but Youngs' kicks were better than Murray's. The England chasers were better than Ireland's. Farrell's little stabs about as good as anything Sexton did - Farrell actually largely anonymous for the most part with ball in hand. Slade seemed as/more important as a distributor, particularly in the 2nd half. But territory was the name of the game - England kept Ireland pegged back and, for some reason, Ireland refused to kick it back. They kept hold of it, got dominated in the physical battles, and then kicked to a settled English backfield.

Serious question marks for Schmidt. How much is he holding back for the RWC? He's found out Henshaw isn't up to the job at 13. Although Aki was excellent, and Ringrose their most potent attacker alongside Stockdale, he must be considered at centre option first and foremost again.

England, though, must take heart from that. They prepared for Ireland's Plan A and Plan B and shut them down in both. Very little rugby played by either side bar their first try - but England didn't need to. They didn't need to up the tempo; Ireland simply couldn't match what they brought. You sense a lot of preparation went into this, as with the NZ game last year, because England were so well oiled and kept reading everything Ireland did. Particularly as the game wore on, it was as if England knew what Ireland would do in every situation; they were one step ahead every time.

Slade game of age, has to stay in the side. Daly looked decent as well but was hardly tested. May did well in the air in both attack and defence. Nowell, Tuilagi great too. The most pleasing thing for England will be how they secured their own ball; Ireland didn't manage to outsmart them there. They did slow down England's ball, and it was slower than Ireland's for the most part, but physical dominance in the collisions meant England kept possession and, when they went wide, Ireland's defence was much more passive to deal with the threat of England's power game.

A test failed by Schmidt's Ireland, but England are now strong favourites for the 6Ns title. Will be interesting to see how they deal with Wales and Scotland - two differing styles where they will have to play on the front foot more often. England employed a similar kicking game against Wales last year and it would be surprising to see them persist with this against both Hogg/Kinghorn and LW/Adams; but who knows, if it works, it works! Sheer physicality from England should be enough to take them to the title - having Tuilagi back is huge, as is the two V's, and if you add Cockanasiga in there I don't think any team bar SA and NZ can cope with that. Also sense England had more to come from the bench - Ford, Ashton, Robson offer a running game that we didn't see tonight.

Also, will take a lot for there to be a funnier moment in the tournament than the exchange between Sinckler and POM!

Whoever was in charge of the replays had a shocker, so many moments that were never shown again

The only other thing I'd add is that it feels like there is still a good 20 minutes of rugby still to be played from that game. The tempo and ball in play time was so slow and so low that Ireland will be kicking themselves - yet they also looked shattered by the end of it, as if they had no answer to England's power.

Ireland had to adapt. They had to up the pace, go through the phases, and actually move England about. They had to run the ball and have Larmour, Ringrose and Stockdale running off shoulders in the wide channels. Not only did they seem unable to do that - Slade's interception - but they also seemed reluctant. Even when they did move it it felt half hearted, as if they wanted to keep playing the slowly, slowly, grindy monkey phase play that worked so well for the last 2 years. But their shock that the kicking game was losing - and they couldn't get beyond England's 10m line - didn't seem to compute. They didn't seem to deal with the fact they were losing in all the areas they need the gameplan to work. Big criticism towards Murray in particular for that, but Sexton too.

Also, one key moment: losing 10-17, first decent set of phases they've had and England finally looked like they were about to crack. Itoje goes down injured for 60 seconds or so, and it kills the momentum somewhat, but Ireland had to go the corner. I knew it was a mistake at the time. In the end they didn't get within a sniff of a similar position until the consolation try. Should have kept the screw down as they did from the 20th-35th minute of the game; play your territory game in England's half, drop goal if you need to, or try something else deceptive if you're losing the physical gainline. Should have gone for a scrum or a lineout from that penalty and looked to get level with a 7 pointer. It was a timid decision that could have swayed the game had it worked.

So erm....Mark Wilson and Curry are ...journeymen.....how funny.

Goosestepper wrote:

miaow wrote:

Yoda wrote:

Goosestepper wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-why-england-cant-break-down-ireland-and-where-the-irish-weak-spots-are

For those interested... well thought out article, it will be interesting to see how positional changes affect a different outcome. Conditions in Dublin look perfect

Blimey it's like having your deficiencies thrown in your face. It took a lot of time to say something very simple, England's kicking game not world class (well bugger my Love sacks), our forwards aren't great at link play again no s**t sherlock. I thought our attack has looked a lot better since we have played with a balanced back row and that's why care has been binned because his kicking isn't up to scratch. We will be more balanced than last year I hope and I wouldn't be supposed if nowell didn't end up fielding a lot of balls in full back interchanging with daly. Hopefully we will prove a little bit more cerebral than last year which wouldn't be difficult.

Got that one horribly wrong!

Who got it wrong? the writer took a retrospective view of last years game, England came with a different game plan and executed it really well.
Also think we struggled with Henshaw at fullback, England exposed that really well especially Farrell who ran him ragged with kicks into the 22

Didn't/haven't read the article - simply responding to the idea that England's kicking game not world class. That was one of the best tactical kicking displays I think I've ever seen. Almost every kick resulted in an immediate or secondary gain for England, whether box kicking, hitting space, the grubber that led to the try or the one that nearly led to Mako's disallowed try.

England were a team ..intensity 1000% Ireland couldn't cope

Irony is that everyone thought the other...and England not gelled strike force would have to try to compete....

But apparently England aren't a settled team with a coherent game plan, so what do we know?

BamBam wrote:Ireland are still the standard in the 6N, I'd be very surprised if they lost another game, it's why I was shouting at the TV at the end in the hope we wouldn't give them a losing bonus point

Personally I was not surprised by an England win. Prior to the Lions tour we were on a record breaking run. A combination of the Lions tour and the non stop nature of the English season meant that they were totally worn out last year. This year I expected better.


In my view the there is not much to choose between the All Blacks, England and Ireland, South Africa and Wales.

This is why the 6N is the best rugby competition in the world. With the exception of Italy, any side can turn over any other home or away, so unpredictable.

EJ is the master at one off destruction of top sides, whether he can keep it up, we shall see.

the English defence was awesome, the missed tackles were mainly by pre-planned rushes with cover behind that caused the ball carrier to stop, move inside or go somewhere he didn't want to go, delaying the pass and allowing the other backs to get in the face of the Irish line.

For the first time in a while, the attack looked cohesive, Manu was actually very good at 12, not what I expected.

Joseph is going to struggle to get that 13 shirt back, Nowell proved that he can be a flanker, for one scrum anyway. At least he knows where to bind. That gets me onto May, did he miss a defensive catch, immense. Constantly blocked when chasing after some very good kicks by a very spritely Youngs, he was a constant menace. One mistake which he recovered from (unlike Hugot) in an otherwise perfect game.

Ireland gave it everything but could not get around that English defence, roll on France.

Extremely well played England

They have been bested up front the last 2 matches against Ireland so certainly had a lot to prove. The return of some long term injured players like Billy and Manu made a massive difference. If England can enjoy a little luck with injuries in this RWC year then they will be a difficult side to beat.

Ireland are still a quality team and were undermined by injuries themselves so just write it off as a bad day at the office and move onwards.

Well done boys.

Thought that result actually flattered Ireland. England were a good 20 points better today. Onwards and upwards. Has Guns posted yet?

GeordieFalcon wrote:So erm....Mark Wilson and Curry are ...journeymen.....how funny.

They both played well. England brought the thunder. Was good to watch.

Poorfour wrote:But apparently England aren't a settled team with a coherent game plan, so what do we know?

I think it'll be interesting when England face a more diverse/varied gameplan than Ireland's. England effectively didn't have to show their full hand. They didn't have to do very much to win the game, which is hugely encouraging - they were accurate and dominant in the moments they moved the ball, and tactically got it spot on to get the ball wide and 'turn' the Irish outside backs for the tries. But Mako and Sinckler weren't given a tough time in the scrum, nor was George's throwing pressured either - helped by Kruis' presence no doubt. There's a luxury for England in that they can play 4 quality, and different, locks depending on opposition. But players/teams look very, very different in ability when they have front foot ball compared to when they're forced to back pedal (in attack or defence). By and large, England had dominance in the phase plays today, and Ireland couldn't deal with that - they beat the ABs with those tactics and I don't think Schmidt thought England would be better than them in that regard, but they were.

I honestly don't think any side can deal with England's physicality, including NZ, if they put an 80 minute, accurate yet brutal performance in. It's the other areas where England can get beaten, but it didn't happen today. From the first whistle England were more up for it than Ireland and kept it up until the 80th. If a team rattles them in any key facet where Ireland failed to today - set pieces, breakdown, kicking game, width and fringe defence - then maybe we see the cracks in the coherence or where certain units aren't as strong as they looked today. For instance, I can't see Ben Youngs putting in another display like he did today against Wales, Scotland, or France.