Wales v England thread (6 Nations)

[mikey_dragon]

First topic message reminder :

Date: 23rd Feb 2019
Time: 9:45 am (Mountain Time)
Venue: MILLENIUM Stadium, Cardiff
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)


Teams:

Wales: Wales: Liam Williams (Saracens); George North (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets), Josh Adams (Worcester); Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), Gareth Davies (Scarlets); Rob Evans (Scarlets), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Tomas Francis (Exeter), Cory Hill (Dragons), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys, captain), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Ross Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Elliot Dee (Dragons), Nicky Smith (Ospreys), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Adam Beard (Ospreys), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons), Aled Davies (Ospreys), Dan Biggar (Northampton), Owen Watkin (Ospreys).


England: Daly; Nowell, Slade, Tuilagi, May; Farrell, Youngs; Moon, George, Sinckler, Lawes, Kruis, Wilson, Curry, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Genge, Williams, Launchbury, Shields, Robson, Ford, Cokanasiga.

ANY personal attacks will be a ban. No warnings.

[Guest]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

[Scottrf]

Retallick is better than Itoje.

Lawes too.

[lostinwales]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

So who do Wales use? Andy Powell?

[robbo277]

England does have the best team. Been telling you lot for a while. Doesn't mean we'll certainly win this week. Stands us in good stead though.

So if you have the best team but that doesn't mean you'll win this week then how can it be the best team? Surely it needs to be bester?

In which sport does the best team in the world win every game?

Good point. But England are the best team. May and Mako, Itoje, Farrell etc all the best.

Even if you were to argue that Mako, Itoje, Farrell and May would get into a World XV (none would be too far off), Mako and Itoje aren't playing.

It's a good England side. A very good England side, one of the best we've seen this millennium, and I think if they perform to the level we saw against Ireland than we should win. If Wales can perform at a high level, disrupting our attack and stressing our defence then they have the talent to win this match without a shadow of a doubt.

[maestegmafia]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

So who do Wales use? Andy Powell?

I would be surprised if the welsh team needed any motivation for this match, at home, two wins, neither spectacular against the all singing and dancing team so far.

If you can’t get motivated for that you shouldn’t be playing.

[robbo277]

England cut their squad to 25 for the weekend tonight, I've just been looking through the squad selected to remind myself who's there and who may be cut etc.

Eddie picked 3 full front rows to train this week. Yes there is a selection debate over Cole or Williams, but are there any question marks over any of the others? Ewels also got a call-up to bring us up to 4 second rows. The selections lead me to believe that there might have been a lot of set-piece work done in the last couple of days.

With regards to the 25 itself, I think we'll see our matchday 23 from France, Genge and Cokanasiga replacing Mako and Ashton in the squad, with Shields and Te'o called up as the additional cover in the 25 - although we could see Mike Brown come back into contention. The only other question then is whether Williams comes back in for Cole or not.

[Guest]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

So who do Wales use? Andy Powell?

On the adulterer front, think Ryan Giggs would be perfect. No so sure about the racism and trophy-crashing in full kit shenanigans though...

[Guest]

The selections lead me to believe that there might have been a lot of set-piece work done in the last couple of days.

Good analysis and the area where I think the game will be won for England. Rugby is really simple and the whole focus on kicking might seem redundant by Saturday night. England will target Wales where Wales are weaker and, most obviously, that is the power game up front. Scrums, lineouts, tackles, rucks. Could be a long day for the Welsh set piece. Have to hope they can target the LH prop.

[Guest]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

So who do Wales use? Andy Powell?

Maggie Thatcher.

[Poorfour]

Not surprising.

One minor surprise I can see is Nicky Smith starting ahead of Rob Evans. Think Wales will look to disrupt England at the breakdown as they managed to last year without conceding penalties. Nicky Smith was good against Australia doing that. If you also have Ken, AWJ, Navidi and then the big one Tipuric going in on the ball at successive rucks, you're likely to win penalties.

Last year, England had an attacking system that left them exposed if they went through too many phases in the forwards. Wales, Scotland, France and Ireland all exploited it - though it was Townsend's tactic of softening the line on the third phase that made it lethal.

This year's England attack works quite differently - and most of the penalties we've given away have been defensive rather than attacking.

[lostinwales]

The selections lead me to believe that there might have been a lot of set-piece work done in the last couple of days.

Good analysis and the area where I think the game will be won for England. Rugby is really simple and the whole focus on kicking might seem redundant by Saturday night. England will target Wales where Wales are weaker and, most obviously, that is the power game up front. Scrums, lineouts, tackles, rucks. Could be a long day for the Welsh set piece. Have to hope they can target the LH prop.

I am not an expert but suspect you'd have more joy going after Sinckler. Genge has a more than decent reputation for his scrummaging

[Guest]

Honestly, don't anticipate either prop getting put under too much pressure. Wales don't really have the tight 5 to do that - might get 1 or 2 based on a bit of cheating and a bit of skill (Samson seems particularly good at using his feet illegally to gain forward momentum) but on the balance I'd say the best Wales could hope for is 60:40. Conversely, Wales could get hammered in the scrums - something like 80:20+ - because they don't have the power at 2 or 5 to compete with George and Kruis.

[Guest]

Poorfour, what will be interesting is how England are asked/made/choose to differ their attack.

Wales refuse to play rugby in their own half and will kick in field wherever possible. Done well, ths can tire the opposition out and result in the mistakes Gatland thrives on. Done poorly, and those kicks can result in a powerful team keeping Wales under the pump for most of the game.

This might well be a game dominated by lots of territorial kicking - Wales looking to make England run it back, England trying to make enough territory to roll a kick into touch deep in Wales' half. Or, if there's space, put those long contestable kicks in for a try scoring opportunity.

That said England will carry the ball. A lot. Tuilagi, Vunipola, Lawes, George, and the two props will hammer at Wales because they're very good at it. There will be opportunities to 'get' to England at the breakdown as a result - it's whether England can seal off the ball as they did against Ireland that will be the key test.

I'd be surprised if this game goes the way of the Ireland game to be perfectly honest. I think it will be quite different, not least because Wales will kick long more often.

[yappysnap]

Youngs is like 10th best in the world too

[Pie]

Retallick is better than Itoje.

So is AWJ.

[Pie]

I think North is best though

[yappysnap]

Interesting motivation tactics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47293013

"Oi oi, Mako. When England win make sure you've got your full kit on under your suit so you can run onto the pitch and celebrate wiv de boys...also, everyone's wife is fair game"

I am ashamed to say I did laugh at this

[No 7&1/2]

Pie. No.

[mikey_dragon]

The Exeter move was the perfect move for him. Should have happened 2-3 years ago. They'll sort him out and probably get 2-3 years of quality finishing from him

Exeter acquired a reputation for taking unwanted, or unfancied players, and getting the best out of them almost instantly. I'm not an Exeter supporter but I had high hopes we'd see Cutbert showing his old peak Wales form, because I'm a sucker for a comeback story. Think it's fair to say it hasn't panned out that way so far.

It won’t pan out that way like it didn’t for Tom James. Funny story, I was told by a certain someone that Tom James was amazing again because Exeter picked him up... yeah another tale that turned out well for said poster.

Cuthbert and James are still amazing players but only in the eyes of Cardiff fans. How bad you say? Well put it this way, they think Cardiff Blues are having a decent season.

[Pie]

If I wanted to be inspired to greatness before a game John Terry is EXACTLY the sort of character I would call upon to gt the hair standing up on the back of my neck

[mikey_dragon]

Retallick is better than Itoje.

So is AWJ.

Itoje is something special, but the English massively overrate the rest of their locks.

[Guest]

Personally, I know who I'd get to do the pre-match motivation. And the goal kicking. Also know as 'the best'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxSwFiu5SQ

Japan 2019 baby...

[Pie]

Pie. No.

Sorry I just find all the best chat so pointless.

Its literally My Dad is bigger than your dad!!!

And he is by the way

I will cease

[LondonTiger]

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
 
Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Dan Robson (Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

[Poorfour]

Poorfour, what will be interesting is how England are asked/made/choose to differ their attack.

Wales refuse to play rugby in their own half and will kick in field wherever possible. Done well, ths can tire the opposition out and result in the mistakes Gatland thrives on. Done poorly, and those kicks can result in a powerful team keeping Wales under the pump for most of the game.

This might well be a game dominated by lots of territorial kicking - Wales looking to make England run it back, England trying to make enough territory to roll a kick into touch deep in Wales' half. Or, if there's space, put those long contestable kicks in for a try scoring opportunity.

That said England will carry the ball. A lot. Tuilagi, Vunipola, Lawes, George, and the two props will hammer at Wales because they're very good at it. There will be opportunities to 'get' to England at the breakdown as a result - it's whether England can seal off the ball as they did against Ireland that will be the key test.

I'd be surprised if this game goes the way of the Ireland game to be perfectly honest. I think it will be quite different, not least because Wales will kick long more often.

Good analysis. I agree that it will be very different from the Ireland game. Wales have a proper back three, so England won't just be able to put the ball behind them like they have in the previous two games. The exception will be if they can entice North into coming forward too early for Williams (or whoever is fullback) to cover, and pop the ball through for May to chase down.

[robbo277]

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
 
Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Dan Robson (Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Pretty much as expected then, even down to Shields and Te'o being the extra men. I think that's how it will break down on Thursday as well, with those two being the two to miss out.

Question remains over who starts 1 and who starts 14, but they were never going to be answered by tonight's announcement, with the two missing out likely to end up wearing 17 or 23.

[robbo277]

https://twitter.com/EnglandRugby/status/1097949159116673026

The two England 10s practicing quickly adjusting their positioning to take snap drop goals.

Which is fine as a tactic, but not if you lose the element of surprise by posting it on social media.

[RiscaGame]

Unless they’re bluffing and try to get Wales to close down hard and then step them ha.

[yappysnap]

Tbf they might do that before every game, just fancied posting it this week for a bit of fun and mind games!

[lostinwales]

Poorfour, what will be interesting is how England are asked/made/choose to differ their attack.

Wales refuse to play rugby in their own half and will kick in field wherever possible. Done well, ths can tire the opposition out and result in the mistakes Gatland thrives on. Done poorly, and those kicks can result in a powerful team keeping Wales under the pump for most of the game.

This might well be a game dominated by lots of territorial kicking - Wales looking to make England run it back, England trying to make enough territory to roll a kick into touch deep in Wales' half. Or, if there's space, put those long contestable kicks in for a try scoring opportunity.

That said England will carry the ball. A lot. Tuilagi, Vunipola, Lawes, George, and the two props will hammer at Wales because they're very good at it. There will be opportunities to 'get' to England at the breakdown as a result - it's whether England can seal off the ball as they did against Ireland that will be the key test.

I'd be surprised if this game goes the way of the Ireland game to be perfectly honest. I think it will be quite different, not least because Wales will kick long more often.

Good analysis. I agree that it will be very different from the Ireland game. Wales have a proper back three, so England won't just be able to put the ball behind them like they have in the previous two games. The exception will be if they can entice North into coming forward too early for Williams (or whoever is fullback) to cover, and pop the ball through for May to chase down.

We can kick or we can carry through the middle. We have some very heavy carriers and with May we are able to kick deeper and still challenge for the ball. Good times.

[yappysnap]

Plus pace out wide in May and Big Jo/Nowell/Daly and a good passing game from Farrell and Slade.

If Eddie was to give Youngs a bit more license to go from the base as well that could spice things up. Now would be the perfect time as well, as I don't think any one expects that from him any more and it looks like that style is frowned on with the removal of Care and Wigglesworth being the go to. The opposition won't be expecting it.

[robbo277]

Tbf they might do that before every game, just fancied posting it this week for a bit of fun and mind games!

If they do it every week they haven't been using it. 2 drop goals under Eddie Jones so far, Ford in the second test against Argentina and Farrell against New Zealand last autumn. I'm going to be honest and say I can't remember if either were under penalty advantage.

As an aside, I think it's always a waste when teams go for a drop goal under penalty advantage. You get two shots at 3, fine, but if nothing's on why not stick the ball up in the in goal and gamble on 7 with 3 to fall back on?

[Scottrf]

Agree and you see it even when the penalty is in easy kicking distance. Brainless.

[Guest]

Agreed. The only time that makes sense if the penalty is conceded wider than the 15m channel i.e. not an easy kick. If you're more central for the drop, then maybe have a go. Otherwise, at the very least, go for the bomb.

[yappysnap]

Is that still a thing? I thought the fad to always try to dg your pen advantage away had died out, seems that teams more often want to play the ball now and hope the ref will bring them back if nothing comes of it, of course this can be risky if the ref decides advantage is up.

[Guest]

By and large it has. Too often the trend now appears to be half-heartedly go through another two phases where the opposition will flop on the ball and your supporting forwards don't think it's worth clearing them out. Or an up and under kick from the first phase the advantage is given that is far too deep and no-one chases.

There are much better ways of utilising advantage. The main one should be to inject pace in the movement, perhaps go through 3/4 phases to do this, then put a contestable, pre-planned kick in - doesn't always have to be a bomb.

Alternatively, we see the flipside of wasting advantage and that is playing the advantage when you need it. The Scarlets were 6 points down to Treviso at the weekend, 60 seconds to go, advantage on halfway. They end up going through another 4 phase, earning 10m, but it's all fairly slow ball. It was chance that they got the penalty brought back (think they knocked it on/there was a mistake somewhere) as there appeared no intention of stopping play and taking the penalty so they could go for the corner. I have to say that reactive game management is still seriously lacking at times in Union. Being aware of speed of ball, pitch position, advantages etc. are far better utilised in League. In any case, the Scarlets took the penalty, a brilliant kick to the 5m line, and then threw the lineout straight to the first Treviso jumper.

But it would be interesting to see how penalty advantages are utilised by teams. Wales are one of the worst under Gatland - they just slow up and take the points/kick to touch. England and NZ two of the best - they do up the intensity and try and make a linebreak. Wonder if that impression I have is supported by the stats.

[Cyril]

When Jonny was punishing teams with drop goals (usually France) it was often from open play ie no penalty conceded. He’d put in 2 or 3 and suddenly the game was away from the opposition. Mind you, penalty advantage in those days was often 2-3 minutes.

[Cyril]

The disadvantage of taking a quick tap on penalty advantage is refs don’t punish sides for not tackling the taker within ten yards often enough. Should often be a yellow, but very rarely penalised.

[Guest]

I've been watching a few early-mid 00s games over the last few weeks. 'Flicked' through Wales-NZ in 04 the other night. Other than the obvious differences/insights, and a few unexpected ones, one thing I did notice was that advantage was a lot shorter than it is now. At least penalty advantage is. Probably about 10 metres or 3-4 phases. The French refs + a few others will genuinely come back a good 30m and 60+ seconds at their worst, so not I think advantage might be something that's actually got worse rather than better? Short arm advantage definitely a lot shorter these days though.

[Cyril]

Really? My recollection is much longer penalty advantages 10-15 years ago. I’ve nothing to back that up though, other than being perplexed about why play was being called back ‘back in the day’. Maybe these days, you hear more from the refs on the mike, ‘still penalty advantage’ etc and from the commentators’ endless spiel. Mind you, the latter get that wrong so often it can be largely ignored.

[Guest]

Not exactly the biggest sample - being only one example - but watch how short this advantage is: https://youtu.be/q9wtfwLV-Eo?t=5436 They go sideways across the field as well, not as if anything was gained.

Also, John Terry or invoking the spirit of Grav? Know which one I'd be more inspired by: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47299061

[Guest]

Although, on second thoughts, maybe the penalty advantage is so short because it's Richie McCaw killing ruck ball. Those are only worth 1/4 of a penalty, after all, to compensate for the AB's ref-bias-quota, so don't last as long...

[Cyril]

Aye, that was a short advantage. Tidy kick into the corner though.

Yeah, John Terry ain’t my idea of a stand up guy either, but we all know how crying (albeit in a good way) isn’t necessarily the way to prepare. I recall Dayglo (I think) saying how he once over-invested himself in the anthem and didn’t perform as he might. Similar to how our NZ brethren (fans) say they sometimes roar themselves to a standstill with the Haka.

Having said all that, it’s really just a little corporate team-building to fill out the break week. You would hope that Terry got involved in a bit of tackle bag training with Lawes though, just for fun.

[Hoonercat]

Forwards
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers)
Jamie George (Saracens)
Nathan Hughes (Wasps)
George Kruis (Saracens)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs)
Brad Shields (Wasps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs)
Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons)
 
Backs
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby)
Elliot Daly (Wasps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens) captain
George Ford (Leicester Tigers)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Dan Robson (Wasps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs)
Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

Must admit I was hoping to see Brown in there for this game. I think targeting Daley under the high ball will be a major part of the Welsh strategy, starting Brown with Daley on the wing would nullify that strategy to some extent and maybe put some doubt into Welsh minds. I'd like to see an England side that can change the team depending on the opposition and this game would have been a good opportunity to do so.

[Rugby Fan]

Must admit I was hoping to see Brown in there for this game. I think targeting Daley under the high ball will be a major part of the Welsh strategy...

Daley hasn't really been tested in that way yet, so it's probably no bad thing if Wales do try to get at him. I'd rather find out he's vulnerable in a Six Nations match than a World Cup game. If things do go wrong, we'll also have to find a way to fix it, which is another challenge worth facing now rather than later.

[LondonTiger]

Must admit I was hoping to see Brown in there for this game. I think targeting Daley under the high ball will be a major part of the Welsh strategy...

Daley hasn't really been tested in that way yet, so it's probably no bad thing if Wales do try to get at him. I'd rather find out he's vulnerable in a Six Nations match than a World Cup game. If things do go wrong, we'll also have to find a way to fix it, which is another challenge worth facing now rather than later.

I expected Ireland to target him, but generally they kicked to May. Daly has that shirt now, but Brown will probably go to Japan as a "backstop arrangement"

[No 7&1/2]

The fact Daly can't catch has all been an elaborate ruse to lull Wales into targeted him ad thus allowing him to score a couple of 80 metre run back tries. In my dreams.

[robbo277]

By and large it has. Too often the trend now appears to be half-heartedly go through another two phases where the opposition will flop on the ball and your supporting forwards don't think it's worth clearing them out. Or an up and under kick from the first phase the advantage is given that is far too deep and no-one chases.

There are much better ways of utilising advantage. The main one should be to inject pace in the movement, perhaps go through 3/4 phases to do this, then put a contestable, pre-planned kick in - doesn't always have to be a bomb.

Alternatively, we see the flipside of wasting advantage and that is playing the advantage when you need it. The Scarlets were 6 points down to Treviso at the weekend, 60 seconds to go, advantage on halfway. They end up going through another 4 phase, earning 10m, but it's all fairly slow ball. It was chance that they got the penalty brought back (think they knocked it on/there was a mistake somewhere) as there appeared no intention of stopping play and taking the penalty so they could go for the corner. I have to say that reactive game management is still seriously lacking at times in Union. Being aware of speed of ball, pitch position, advantages etc. are far better utilised in League. In any case, the Scarlets took the penalty, a brilliant kick to the 5m line, and then threw the lineout straight to the first Treviso jumper.

But it would be interesting to see how penalty advantages are utilised by teams. Wales are one of the worst under Gatland - they just slow up and take the points/kick to touch. England and NZ two of the best - they do up the intensity and try and make a linebreak. Wonder if that impression I have is supported by the stats.

The one that stood out for me was Ben Youngs against France after the Bamba (I think) high tackle on Manu, where we turned down advantage. A nothing incident in a nothing position, Youngs asks for the penalty immediately, gets his hands on the ball, taps and runs past the helpless French defenders who couldn't lay a finger on him. I think he made 10m and then 7 seconds later Farrell was dotting down for a try. At first I wasn't sure why he hadn't used the advantage, but it worked out well and if he had have played a few phases under advantage and then come back, the result would have been a lineout between the French 22 and 10m line.

[maestegmafia]

Teams announced tomorrow. I don’t envisage there being many surprises on either side bar cover for injuries

[robbo277]

Aye, that was a short advantage. Tidy kick into the corner though.

Yeah, John Terry ain’t my idea of a stand up guy either, but we all know how crying (albeit in a good way) isn’t necessarily the way to prepare. I recall Dayglo (I think) saying how he once over-invested himself in the anthem and didn’t perform as he might. Similar to how our NZ brethren (fans) say they sometimes roar themselves to a standstill with the Haka.

Having said all that, it’s really just a little corporate team-building to fill out the break week. You would hope that Terry got involved in a bit of tackle bag training with Lawes though, just for fun.

I'd be interested to know what Terry said to them. It obviously wasn't the pre-game changing room speech a la Al Pacino's life is a game of inches speech because it's far too early in the week for that.

For all his personal flaws Terry was a very successful captain at Chelsea despite being quite a limited player in terms of his lack of pace and ability with the ball at his feet. At England level he won a large number of caps, captained the side for a long time and even had a coach resign 4 months before a major tournament when the FA stripped him of the captaincy. I'm sure he'll have a lot of insight into top level sport.

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