Wales v England - Matchday

First topic message reminder :

https://www.606v2.com/t68441-wales-v-england-thread-6-nations

The time is now!
The day is here!

LondonTiger wrote:ANY personal attacks will be a ban. No warnings.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Farrell is the stand out 10 so far surely. At least Curry is about to gain some plaudits from the guys who don't pay attention normally.

He definitely wasnt today. His kick game didn't work at all.

Yup he was.still is. Suck it up collapse. May be easier to wait for sexton to become amazing again next match.

The kick game didn't work not really because of Farrell but simply it became a tactic of diminishing returns against Wales who are always competitive at the very least in the air, though moreover dominant. Even diminutive Halfpenny when playing can collect more than he squanders... with Williams and Biggar.. and throw in North.... not really an area where Wales suffer too much.

Well done Wales, once again the comeback kings. And once again England showing that they are unable to change the game plan on the field, so frustrating to watch them kick and kick, may as well have left Manu in the changing room. All the hard work the pack put in to the game only to see possession continually been kicked to Wales. Jamie George looked done for by 60 mins yet left on the field, we needed some impact yet didn't bring Genge on until the 76th minute, pointless.

I would just like too say a very big "CONGRATULATIONS" to Wales.

You out played us in the second half. Though i do believe. i know hind sight is a good thing. But i do believe if Biggar had started in  stead of Anscome you might of gone in at half time in front. Anscome turned down 2 penalty kicks at goal that Biggar would of kicked.

Still you won. the Grand Slam is now your's too lose.

Go and get it.

Well played wales

Tough first half but really got on top in the second.

It’s all about absorbing pressure, nullifying the attack and imposing you forwards game plan.

First scrum to win against the head I’ve seen in ages.

You could tell how rattled Farrell and Young’s were by halftime, and at that point we knew we could win

Game of two halves. England so much better first half. Wales somehow won 2nd half. Couldn’t see a win at half time but somehow won. Babbling now. Strewth. So many emotions.

I’d say Biggar is in the top 2 or 3 10s in the world at the moment. Can’t think of an area he struggles in? Nails every kick as well. Was genuinely worried about him starting and look what happened when he came on.

miaow wrote:

Heaf wrote:He's missing a lot ...

mikey_dragon wrote:Why’s the ref helping England so much? Keep getting away with blatant knock-ons and playing it on the floor.

2 comments in quick succession about the ref. One English one Welsh. Think that says it all - thought Peyper reffed well. Shocking call on Tipuric's tackle but that was the TMO, he can only go on what he's told. By and large, he allowed both teams to contest the ball and also gave them time to retain it. I don't think he favoured either, particularly as it was, by and large, a slow gruelling and narrow game.

So he came close to a shocker with Tipuric but that was about a bad as it got. Also shut down the off the ball stuff (shocking from England to let that get to them) and that helped - the players then policed themselves.

I didn't say he was favouring either side - just that he was missing a lot ...

RDW wrote:Biggar is a big game player - his impact could decide the game.

Parkes has been poor.

Bit harsh. Don't think he was poor at all. Offered a solid carry all game, spun out of the tackle to make an extra yard or two, stop the 2nd/3rd English tackler hit him cleanly, and to protect the ball. Got it wrong for England's final penalty kick at goal - body position clearly all wrong - and looked sluggish tidying up the ball at the end of the first half, but thought he did ok. Wouldn't say he was poor - perhaps exposed as lacking a bit of pace up against Tuilagi, and that's more an issue with the coaches knowing what he can and cannot do, and not allowing him to be exposed. Ultimately, he was a net gain for Wales, carried well, made his tackles, and added solidity in a game where Wales needed all the solidity they could muster.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Errrgh not deserved. But there you go.

How? Why?

RDW wrote:For all that Wales want to play a different way with Anscome, Biggar wins them games!

Heaf wrote:I'm not clear why Biggar doesn't start?

Think you're missing the point here boys. Anscombe played pretty well, offered a running threat throughout, and held the defence. He was rushed first half but played well - territorial kicking was solid, distributing good, and touch finders very good (if English fans have any gripe about the ref, which would be wrong, they could with the touch judges - felt like Wales were given 'home advantage' by the touch judges at times). Kicked the penalty goals he chose to kick and then found good touch with those he didn't.

He's not the finished article but he's a good playmaker who looked, in patches, like getting through a gap. Dropped the ball in one good opportunity unfortunately. Biggar is excellent, and brilliant from the bench, but Anscombe was the right choice. Not sure what position you played/if you played but Ansombe's contribution was very important to what came in the final quarter - just as every forwards' impact was as well.

Because England deserved to win miaow.
You can disagree of course but
...

Not disrespecting Anscombe but Biggar just seems better - admittedly from the limited amount I've seen.

Still think England will win the championship as i think Ireland will turn up in Cardiff.

I’m just shocked England couldn’t change the game plan, and to be honest was very surprised they turned up with the same plan from the previous two games, Gatland is too smart to be fooled by that.

Oh he's a lot better with more viewing...but there again, no 10 is perfect. Biggar can have his off days too ...
At least I'm praying for one in a few week's time.....

The Oracle wrote:Game of two halves. England so much better first half. Wales somehow won 2nd half. Couldn’t see a win at half time but somehow won. Babbling now. Strewth. So many emotions.

Not sure about that. Better, yes. But thought Wales did what they needed to do and nullified England's threats. They waned as the game went on and England's explosive power game became less effective. As such, not sure you can say England were so much better first half - they did less than nothing with the ball in hand, scored an opportunistic try from a cheap lapse in the Welsh defence, and ultimately didn't take advantage of the more equal territory and possession that what followed in the second-half.

Massive game, really enjoyed that. Congrats to Wales and their fans today

Heaf wrote:

miaow wrote:

Heaf wrote:He's missing a lot ...

mikey_dragon wrote:Why’s the ref helping England so much? Keep getting away with blatant knock-ons and playing it on the floor.

2 comments in quick succession about the ref. One English one Welsh. Think that says it all - thought Peyper reffed well. Shocking call on Tipuric's tackle but that was the TMO, he can only go on what he's told. By and large, he allowed both teams to contest the ball and also gave them time to retain it. I don't think he favoured either, particularly as it was, by and large, a slow gruelling and narrow game.

So he came close to a shocker with Tipuric but that was about a bad as it got. Also shut down the off the ball stuff (shocking from England to let that get to them) and that helped - the players then policed themselves.

I didn't say he was favouring either side - just that he was missing a lot ...

Fair play, I take it back then. Disagree he missed a lot. Think he allowed the game to be played and, in that sense, you could pick 3-4 infringements at every ruck. The forward passes for instance: I didn't see any. What do you think he missed?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Because England deserved to win miaow.
You can disagree of course but
...

Yeah, think I will and just leave it at that!!

You can do. As it's hard to argue against it. We'll see on the last day when England pick up the 6ns as it isnt likely to change next line up but hey ho.

Heaf wrote:Not disrespecting Anscombe but Biggar just seems better - admittedly from the limited amount I've seen.

Comparing every facet? Yeah, I'd say he probably is. What Biggar is good at - kicking, game-reading, heart and desire, up and unders and catching - he's very good at. He also worked his behind off to become a good defensive 10 as he was an O'Gara-esque revolving door when broke through at the Ospreys. But he's not a natural runner or gameplaying 10 - nor is Farrell and, although he's worked at that too, games like this expose his inability to play flat to the line when his pack doesn't win the gainline or he's on the backfoot (something I said pre-game, as well as his captaincy which, although marginal, again I felt was lacking). As good as those 2 10s are they lack what someone like Anscombe or, even better, Patchell have which is both the ability and the desire/comfort to run the ball, take it to the line, and make instinctive decisions at the last minute.

But yeah, overall, Biggar is a warrior and probably better than Anscombe. That said I think this situation of Biggar coming off the bench is perfect against opposition like England and SA. He played a big part in winning of those games - not leasts the first conversion. Without that it is a very different game/prospect with a 1 point lead.

TightHEAD wrote:Still think England will win the championship as i think Ireland will turn up in Cardiff.

I’m just shocked England couldn’t change the game plan, and to be honest was very surprised  they turned up with the same plan from the previous two games, Gatland is too smart to be fooled by that.

Agree with your first point but also can't see why people still underestimate Gatland and Wales, and overestimate EJ and England. EJ is a 'gimmicky' coach in that he targets a few key areas of competition - rucks and kicking in rucks in first 2 years; now it's aerial game and the backfield - and trains his teams to go hard at it. No doubt he and his coaches are more than that, and when they're good, because of their personnel, they're very effective and sometimes - like against Ireland and the first 20 against NZ - they're very good. But he/England look ordinary when those strengths are worked out/countered - as they did today, and as they did last year. No doubt they'll bounce back though. Wales had to work very hard to dominate them, but dominate them they did.

That said, backing it up in 2 more games in a row seems a big ask. Wales should dominate Scotland in Scotland, and that should be enough to win the game, as they're clearly missing something with the injuries. Eventhough their first 5 is soft it's not a gimme though and could very easily be a win for the Scots. But Ireland? To go Eng-Sco away- Ire? Big, big ask. Just as EJ and England have their limitations so do Wales and I don't think they have the consistency. They could target the Ireland game now, and try and squeak past Scotland like they obviously did with Italy in the second round, but that's asking for trouble.

Wales have a good chance of hitting Ireland. The Irish players - too many of them look off colour for the intensity the best sides are giving to 6N this year. We'll see if Ireland pick up the scent for a fight in games to come but already the French game looks a fight and a half in the making.

No 7&1/2 wrote:You can do. As it's hard  to argue against it. We'll  see on the last day when England pick up the 6ns as  it isnt likely to change next line up but hey ho.

Honestly, I'm not sure if you're drunk by - again - I cannot understand what you're saying here. Are you saying 'when England pick up the 6Ns' - as in the trophy? What isn't likely to change?

It would explain why you think England deserved to win that game. It's only hard to 'argue' against you in all honesty - Wales dominated that last half hour and, ultimately, tactically out thought and out fought England at their own territorial kicking and aerial game. Thoroughly deserved win for Wales - like the game two years ago but this time, England were reluctant to keep ball in hand (mystifying - Tuilagi showed what a threat he is with one break, criminal to underuse such an effective player) and so didn't keep the pressure on the Welsh defence, and also Wales were amazingly clinical. The first try is probably the most satisying try I've seen from Wales for ages - we never score tries like that. It's a combination of discipline, skill, heart, and then a bit of intelligence by Cory Hill to not panic and run at the huge gap (which close very quickly) but rather arc the run at pace and make sure he broke past Billy V to dot down. The final try is vindication for what has been an amazing 12 months or so for Adams - he did well in a rough backfield last year at Twickenham, peppered by kicks all day, and today the boot was on the other foot (literally so). Daly thoroughly exposed as Stockdale and Henshaw were exposed by Ireland, to Daly's profit.

Have a look at the stats and try and 'argue' England deserved it.

Great game of rugby though. Wales had to work very hard to get past England's power game. Think Mako's absence was telling - Francis cut through Moon at scrumtime to win it against the head. One big thing that is clear for the RWC is England cannot underpower the pack/tight 5.

SecretFly wrote:Wales have a good chance of hitting Ireland.  The Irish players - too many of them look off colour for the intensity the best sides are giving to 6N this year.  We'll see if Ireland pick up the scent for a fight in games to come but already the French game looks a fight and a half in the making.

That's true. Ireland Wales has been 'the' battle in the last 15-20 years in the 6Ns. From the undercard to Eng-Fra to becoming title deciders later on. Two teams that play it similarly as well. A bit like today, it's close to a 50:50. Not sure Wales have another game with the intensity they showed today in the locker. Scotland to get past first as well - not easy!

Hmm. Not sure if that come s across as a personal attack or just an excuse for you? I think the former. But tests the initial test by London.
If yeah England better than Wales again. You got lucky.

It was a good moral victory for Wales too.

Wales can certainly beat Ireland. They almost always have the game plan set up to negate Ireland just as they did against England. They are a very well coached side so given the run of wins and their position in the world rugby rankings, it would be no shock for them to win the GS.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hmm. Not sure if that come s across as a personal attack or just am excuse for you? I think the former. But tests the initial  test by London.
It yeah England better than Wales again. We got unlucky.

It's not a personal attack at all, I'm being genuine, I don't understand what you're saying - it's hard to decipher and whilst I get you're on your phone, if you could edit/proof read your comments at times it would be easier. It's also not a strange thing to be drunk during an Eng Wales game - hence asking!

Going to leave your second point about England being better than Wales. Think most people would see that as head in the clouds stuff.

Thanks to all the genuine English supporters for their reactions. I’m not sure what is justifying the reactions of one, but there we go.

Bring on the next two rounds of the tournament. From a Welsh point of view they’ll be two big challenges. I respect Ireland hugely, but Wales did beat them last time in Cardiff, when they weren’t too bad a team then (had beaten NZ first time etc). I’m not sure I would ever class a team as favourites that are away or think an away team will turn up and a home team wont, but there we go.

Oh. Ok. I think it is. You have repeatedly targeted drink against me for no other reason to try and target my points. Pretty personal so as I said looking forward to the mods view on that. Yea most people would simply view the fact that Wales are the 3rd maybe 4th best team in the NH as fact.

Thought you were leaving it Miaow?

Twice, 7.5. Once because when I first saw your typing was shocking, the go to reaction is 'hmm, impaired vision and hand-eye co-ordination' - typically a drunk thing. You then said you type on your phone - which makes sense, especially for auto-correct. The second time is today: where you're noticeably worse than usual, it's during a huge rugby match on the weekend, and it's a very normal thing to be drinking today. If you're offended or have a certain anti attitude towards drinking for whatever reason, then I apologise.

Edit: I am Risca, but on second thoughts see why my comment might have been deemed offensive. Wanted to apologise for that - not the intention - and also try to 'explain' why. It's not just a personal attack, it does come from the fact I literally couldn't understand what was written.

Stats are pretty revealing: http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/matchstats?gameId=294253&league=180659

Particularly the difference between 1st and 2nd halves. Wales dominated with their phaseplays. Excellent stuff- EJ and Eng would have known what was coming but they didn't factor in Wales have the better kicking and aerial game. Also pen count and forcing errors from Eng offset any wobbles at set piece and, surprisingly, missed tackles!

Half take your apology however you are doing it to talk down to people.your normal posting is to talk down and insult people. I'll still leave it to the mods to decide.
And if you read this mods let it go.

miaow wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Wales have a good chance of hitting Ireland.  The Irish players - too many of them look off colour for the intensity the best sides are giving to 6N this year.  We'll see if Ireland pick up the scent for a fight in games to come but already the French game looks a fight and a half in the making.

That's true. Ireland Wales has been 'the' battle in the last 15-20 years in the 6Ns. From the undercard to Eng-Fra to becoming title deciders later on. Two teams that play it similarly as well. A bit like today, it's close to a 50:50. Not sure Wales have another game with the intensity they showed today in the locker. Scotland to get past first as well - not easy!

The way Scotland played to day Wales should have no problem. 

Having said that Scotland did come up against a France side that was on fire tto day.

Wonder if May is still celebrating his tackle into touch?

Doubtful they'll be too busy kicking themselves.

RiscaGame wrote:Wonder if May is still celebrating his tackle into touch?

He looked gutted at half time. Also saw North apologising to him. Did he go off injured? Or was that just for off the ball stuff?

Also, did anyone see him walk off after the anthem? As in, England's anthem, and had to be called back into the line for the Welsh anthem.

Definitely much improved but today showed - not a top class winger, clear deficiencies to his all-round game.

Miaow/7.5 can you please ignore each other for the rest of the evening - this has been s good thread so far 

Sinckler really lost his head today and judging by the reaction from Jones, he may be in a little trouble.

Yo rdw can you make the ignore work on the mobile device for 1 it would make it much easier and enforce the no tolerance rule as stated on the original post. Cheers.

miaow wrote:

Heaf wrote:

miaow wrote:

Heaf wrote:He's missing a lot ...

mikey_dragon wrote:Why’s the ref helping England so much? Keep getting away with blatant knock-ons and playing it on the floor.

2 comments in quick succession about the ref. One English one Welsh. Think that says it all - thought Peyper reffed well. Shocking call on Tipuric's tackle but that was the TMO, he can only go on what he's told. By and large, he allowed both teams to contest the ball and also gave them time to retain it. I don't think he favoured either, particularly as it was, by and large, a slow gruelling and narrow game.

So he came close to a shocker with Tipuric but that was about a bad as it got. Also shut down the off the ball stuff (shocking from England to let that get to them) and that helped - the players then policed themselves.

I didn't say he was favouring either side - just that he was missing a lot ...

Fair play, I take it back then. Disagree he missed a lot. Think he allowed the game to be played and, in that sense, you could pick 3-4 infringements at every ruck. The forward passes for instance: I didn't see any. What do you think he missed?

There were definitely some forward passes missed, plus offsides, high tackles, taking out off the ball etc - but nothing I would say affected the result. Wales deserved the win.

RDW wrote:Miaow/7.5 can you please ignore each other for the rest of the evening - this has been s good thread so far 

miaow wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:Wonder if May is still celebrating his tackle into touch?

He looked gutted at half time. Also saw North apologising to him. Did he go off injured? Or was that just for off the ball stuff?

Also, did anyone see him walk off after the anthem? As in, England's anthem, and had to be called back into the line for the Welsh anthem.

Definitely much improved but today showed - not a top class winger, clear deficiencies to his all-round game.

Based on one game? Eng weren't brilliant today but not sure what J May did wrong? He took every high ball, made his tackles and did brilliantly with the kick chase before Faz booted the ball away.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yo rdw can you make the ignore work on the mobile device for 1 it would make it much easier and enforce the no tolerance rule as stated on the original post. Cheers.

Seconded.

TightHEAD wrote:Best team won on the day, no complaints from me England played dumb in the 2nd half.

Have a good night fellas, tidy

Cheers TightHEAD. Appreciate it

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yo rdw can you make the ignore work on the mobile device for 1 it would make it much easier and enforce the no tolerance rule as stated on the original post. Cheers.

We don't have much control over this I'm afraid - it is part of the host website. I'll speak to them and see what they say.

K no probs. Bar the original line on this thread which you do. I let it go once but which repeated offences are we ignoring the personal attack as now. If so fair does I'll just start joining in. Just a heads up the dm s don't show on the mobile hence this message! Feel free to delete