Wales v England - Matchday

by **LondonTiger** Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

https://www.606v2.com/t68441-wales-v-england-thread-6-nations

The time is now!
The day is here!

LondonTiger wrote:ANY personal attacks will be a ban. No warnings.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:52 pm

I still think Ireland have the game to beat Wales to stop them getting the Slam and England will take the Championship. If they do, again I don't think this will be a bad thing for the Welsh.

by Sgt_Pooly Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:57 pm

Taylorman wrote:Bit like Ireland though, they had a plan A(only as well) that was also working so so well. Whats become clear is having only a plan A if anything is both predictable and something that will not likely win a World cup campaign. Simple question is...what do we do at forty minutes when plan A aint working? Havent seen the answer to that yet.

Agree Taylor, we all need to adapt somewhat. It's one one worry I have with England going forward. It was plainly obvious the kicking to Wales back 3 was not working and Wales were growing into the game because of this. Why didn't we mix it up more? We have the runners, we have the power.....Bring Ford on, move Manu to 13 and start adding width to the game.

by Taylorman Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:24 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still think Ireland have the game to beat Wales to stop them getting the Slam and England will take the Championship. If they do, again I don't think this will be a bad thing for the Welsh.

Yes that match suddenly got more interesting. I had Wales beating them at home before the 6N and now that looks odds on. Wales won it last time as well and now they have confidence to burn so will still go with Wales for that one. Gatlands comments re england were interesting and not normally his MO, perhaps the confidence from the sequence is a genuine one.

by Collapse2005 Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:42 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still think Ireland have the game to beat Wales to stop them getting the Slam and England will take the Championship. If they do, again I don't think this will be a bad thing for the Welsh.

Unless the ref suddenly gets sick and Wayne Barnes suddenly becomes available. This has happened twice before in Ireland v Wales fixtures. Both times Steve Walsh withdrew and Barnes stepped in. At home Wales on form will be tough to beat.

by **Rugby Fan** Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:49 pm

My head still hurts. I watched the game with some Welsh supporters, and they didn't want to stop drinking...

A loss aia always painful but I actually enjoyed the match as a spectatcle, and a battle of wits. The group I was with wanted Biggar on much earlier but it didn't seem to me that Anscombe was at sea.

by **LondonTiger** Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:53 pm

Wales were the only team that deserved to win in an encounter that was high on effort and intensity. Annoyed that England came out in second half only kicking, as the big carriers were making ground and something happened every time Manu got the ball.

I actually think Wales will find the next two games harder than this one.

I have thought long and hard about the next comment, as it incites passions and accusations of wummery that usually are not present. But this is a place for opinions, especially if honest ones. I feel that AWJ is a fantastic leader, and Wales play better with him there, but as a player there is a marked decline in his abilities. He seemed to be struggling for physicality, in the lineout and at times looked off the pace compared to his team mates.

Out for the day now so will miss any fuss I have caused. Sorry to the mods online.

by alfie Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:54 pm

I enjoyed the match too. Wales deservedly won and I've no problems with that ...happens. From an England viewpoint I'm disturbed that they still seem to concede far too many penalties : if that is a function of the way they play I fear it will do for them in Japan. If it is a discipline problem it's about time Eddie sorted it...
Plus they kicked too much. Arguably so did Wales but they got away with it....

by Collapse2005 Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:57 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:My head still hurts. I watched the game with some Welsh supporters, and they didn't want to stop drinking...

A loss aia always painful but I actually enjoyed the match as a spectatcle, and a battle of wits. The group I was with wanted Biggar on much earlier but it didn't seem to me that Anscombe was at sea.

I thought Anscome played better this week but Biggar is much better. For me he us a really good 10.

by stub Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:24 pm

That was a great match (bar the result!) - a well deserved win for the Welsh.

Hopefully England will learn from the match and develop further.

by WELL-PAST-IT Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:43 pm

I have just got back (not from the match) so I have not read the previous pages, for me England had only two plans, Plan A and Plan A. If Plan A doesn't work, change to Plan A. Wales adapted and England didn't.

When they saw the England's territorial kicking game was working and Williams was getting isolated and being hunted down by three Englishmen, they dropped a winger or sometimes two back. The result England's kicking needed to be more precise and Farrell wasn't up to it.

Worse from an England perspective was that having see the wingers dropping back and leaving space, they still continued kicking and not running the ball into the wide channels or at least mixing it up to create doubt. The Welsh defence was up in the faces of England, so where were the little grubbers in behind that we have seen in the last two games?

Wales noticed that Pepyer was being very liberal with his interpretation of being off your feet at a ruck and maul and they just charged in creating a solid wall of bodies between the ball and England. Result they secured nearly all their possession in the second half and were able to play an Irish style game of shear attrition which paid off.

Cannot help but say Wales deserved the win (ouch, that hurts) England failed to live up to the form of the last two games and seemed to revert to the England of last year. Jones must share a lot of the blame, not just the players, It's not working so change the style of play, Ford was on the bench and unused, why? If there is two players capable of making the most of space out wide it's Cips and Ford, Cips wasn't there but Ford was. Likewise Genge, a player put on the bench to finish the game, make things happen, 3 minutes from time is just daft.

This is the second game in a row where England drag off Kruis and then within a few minutes the other lock, first Itoje and then Lawes get injured and a backrower has to play lock.

I'll say it again, well done Wales, a deserved win.

Now I will go and analyse the recording and pick out all the things that Pepyer got wrong and how bias he was against England, how Wales were extremely lucky and then change my mind about how they deserved to win.. Very Happy

by Eejit Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:17 pm

Just wanted to say that was a proper test match. Really enjoyed it and it acted as eyewash after the bloody awful France Scotland game.

by Collapse2005 Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:31 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I have just got back (not from the match) so I have not read the previous pages, for me England had only two plans, Plan A and Plan A. If Plan A doesn't work, change to Plan A. Wales adapted and England didn't.

When they saw the England's territorial kicking game was working and Williams was getting isolated and being hunted down by three Englishmen, they dropped a winger or sometimes two back. The result England's kicking needed to be more precise and Farrell wasn't up to it.

Worse from an England perspective was that having see the wingers dropping back and leaving space, they still continued kicking and not running the ball into the wide channels or at least mixing it up to create doubt. The Welsh defence was up in the faces of England, so where were the little grubbers in behind that we have seen in the last two games?

Wales noticed that Pepyer was being very liberal with his interpretation of being off your feet at a ruck and maul and they just charged in creating a solid wall of bodies between the ball and England. Result they secured nearly all their possession in the second half and were able to play an Irish style game of shear attrition which paid off.

Cannot help but say Wales deserved the win (ouch, that hurts) England failed to live up to the form of the last two games and seemed to revert to the England of last year. Jones must share a lot of the blame, not just the players, It's not working so change the style of play, Ford was on the bench and unused, why? If there is two players capable of making the most of space out wide it's Cips and Ford, Cips wasn't there but Ford was. Likewise Genge, a player put on the bench to finish the game, make things happen, 3 minutes from time is just daft.

This is the second game in a row where England drag off Kruis and then within a few minutes the other lock, first Itoje and then Lawes get injured and a backrower has to play lock.

I'll say it again, well done Wales, a deserved win.

Now I will go and analyse the recording and pick out all the things that Pepyer got wrong and how bias he was against England, how Wales were extremely lucky and then change my mind about how they deserved to win..

Most teams stick to plan A because its tried and tested and has worked well in the past. Its human nature. Not the end of the world.

by Pie Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:10 am

Taylorman wrote:Well for someone who doesnt know anything about nh rugby i seem to be doing better than you and most on the old pick em thing pie, though this result was something i didnt see, I guess everyone else did hih? Yeah Wales won well, it Englands inability to get just about anything right that was annoying.

Presently none of the nh sides are showing anywhere near the consistency needed for a world cup campaign. We were told england were the ones a year ago, then ireland, then england again. Now who is it? Wales, or France?

Hmm, i dont really thing the NH knows a lot about NH rugby either. They certainly dont know whos best. Good to see our Gatland get one over Eddie from next door though, I will give you that. Be great if wales come through and knock them both off too. Then we’ll have a bit of consistency once theyve played tougher sides. 12 straight huh? Nice if it brings them a title.

Also interesting how theres increasing regret with letting Cotter go...interesting. We were told Townsend is taking Scotland to levels Cotter couldnt. Odd, cant see it myself, doesnt surprise though. Any thoughts there Pie?

? Wasn't referring to you, but Chris Rattue who you clearly plagiarized your entire post from Laugh

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:51 am

A very disappointing second half from an England fan.

We had the better of the first half and I think we were more than 7 points better. If we had held on to the ball after May's kick-and-chase and worked a try or even a drop-goal, then that would have been a more reflective scoreline. I think the cross-kick to Nowell was the wrong option at that time.

In the second half we offered very little. Ford should have been on earlier to help change our shape. Genge should have been on earlier (Moon played well but was tiring) but I don't think he alone would have managed to stem the tide.

England are still favourites for the Championship for my money. I don't think Wales will win a slam, so if England can win their last two they've got a decent shot at it.

Finally, I agree with LT's assessment of Alun-Wyn Jones. He lead from the front, piling into rucks and getting right in everyone's face, but in the first half he was ineffective. Time and time again he got smashed back ball in hand. Yesterday he made 14 carries for 9m total, crossing the gainline 2 or 3 times maximum.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:25 am

True, when looking at those stats AWJ looks poor. But according to ESPN Kruis and Lawes only made 5 runs each, for 4 metres and 2 metres respectively. All 3 made pretty much the same number of tackles (16 or 17). Kruis gave away a penalty when the other two didn’t. So on balance AWJ was involved a lot more and made more metres. I’d therefore pick him over his opposition, based on yesterday’s game/stats.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:04 am

The AWJ criticism is ridiculous. He got driven back in one tackle when caught too upright by two tacklers, but you're missing the point by looking at raw stats. Look at Wales' first try - their gameplan in general - it was about sustained possession, low risk by mid tempo phaseplays against a physially more powerful pack and team in general.

If you don't think AWJ carried well then it strikes of not knowing what youre talking about.

by Pie Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:06 am

Ugh who cares, he nearly threw a gift intercept and went toe to toe with the big baby that is Sinckler - Eng not well served by him who should have his own penalty stats....was it 3 in 2nd half? Cant compete with a plum like that and he reminds me of Brown who sat up for Biggar on half way at RWC 2015.

Whats making me laugh is the kiwis....you know you're getting them interested when they start flapping their gums saying they're not interested laughing

by Taylorman Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:21 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still think Ireland have the game to beat Wales to stop them getting the Slam and England will take the Championship. If they do, again I don't think this will be a bad thing for the Welsh.

Unless the ref suddenly gets sick and Wayne Barnes suddenly becomes available. This has happened twice before in Ireland v Wales fixtures. Both times Steve Walsh withdrew and Barnes stepped in. At home Wales on form will be tough to beat.

norovirus is often a gud’n too thumbsup

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:29 am

robbo277 wrote:A very disappointing second half from an England fan.

We had the better of the first half and I think we were more than 7 points better. If we had held on to the ball after May's kick-and-chase and worked a try or even a drop-goal, then that would have been a more reflective scoreline. I think the cross-kick to Nowell was the wrong option at that time.

In the second half we offered very little. Ford should have been on earlier to help change our shape. Genge should have been on earlier (Moon played well but was tiring) but I don't think he alone would have managed to stem the tide.

England are still favourites for the Championship for my money. I don't think Wales will win a slam, so if England can win their last two they've got a decent shot at it.

Finally, I agree with LT's assessment of Alun-Wyn Jones. He lead from the front, piling into rucks and getting right in everyone's face, but in the first half he was ineffective. Time and time again he got smashed back ball in hand. Yesterday he made 14 carries for 9m total, crossing the gainline 2 or 3 times maximum.

by SecretFly Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:44 am

It's a game of two halves. AWJ probably drew a lot of attention onto himself by the English who knew his 'totemic' role in the Welsh shirt, and they wanted to show they were putting him in his box. But he sucked up all that stuff and was there in the end drilling energy into his players. Jones seemed to be interested what he was going to do in the first half - didn't seem to factor in a second half and query what he'd do if Wales were still in the race well into the second. IF Wales were well in the race by the second half then it was a foregone conclusion they'd have managed it by sapping the strength/impact of England's lauded ball carriers. And if that was a job done in a first half then it doesn't matter how fit these English line breakers are, they're effectiveness inevitably decreases as the game goes on. Maybe Jones buts too much faith in the returns coming to him from rampant first halves.

by No9 Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:51 am

Great game, wales deserved it for that 2nd half performance. Liam was outstanding, but Manu Tigulali should have seen RED for grabbing Liam round the throat. If he’s not cited for that, then there’s no justice.

With that, and Sinklers antics, England where lucky not to be down to 13 men at one point.

Biggar coming on was a turning point, but I fear if he had started and Anscombe had come on, then the England may have won.

We have to get a Grand Slam now or its England’s title...

Wales’ tournament to lose now...

by Pie Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:18 am

No9 wrote:Great game, wales deserved it for that 2nd half performance. Liam was outstanding, but Manu Tigulali should have seen RED for grabbing Liam round the throat. If he’s not cited for that, then there’s no justice.

With that, and Sinklers antics, England where lucky not to be down to 13 men at one point.

Biggar coming on was a turning point, but I fear if he had started and Anscombe had come on, then the England may have won.

We have to get a Grand Slam now or its England’s title...

Wales’ tournament to lose now...

by Taylorman Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:31 am

Pie wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Well for someone who doesnt know anything about nh rugby i seem to be doing better than you and most on the old pick em thing pie, though this result was something i didnt see, I guess everyone else did hih? Yeah Wales won well, it Englands inability to get just about anything right that was annoying.

Presently none of the nh sides are showing anywhere near the consistency needed for a world cup campaign. We were told england were the ones a year ago, then ireland, then england again. Now who is it? Wales, or France?

Hmm, i dont really thing the NH knows a lot about NH rugby either. They certainly dont know whos best. Good to see our Gatland get one over Eddie from next door though, I will give you that. Be great if wales come through and knock them both off too. Then we’ll have a bit of consistency once theyve played tougher sides. 12 straight huh? Nice if it brings them a title.

Also interesting how theres increasing regret with letting Cotter go...interesting. We were told Townsend is taking Scotland to levels Cotter couldnt. Odd, cant see it myself, doesnt surprise though. Any thoughts there Pie?

? Wasn't referring to you, but Chris Rattue who you clearly plagiarized your entire post from

Said similar did he? I noticed the brit papers said the same. As did Gatland, and manynposters here so I dont really see the ‘obvious’ as plaguerising.

And good to know you go hunting for kiwi reports for the real take on your efforts. Understandable. Id go to yours more but as per typical NH greed they want money to read past the first sentence. Sad.

And looks like Irelands away record continues to impress. Six matches on the trot in Japan? Hmmm.Its just getting difficult to track whos wheels are falling off faster.

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:37 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I still think Ireland have the game to beat Wales to stop them getting the Slam and England will take the Championship. If they do, again I don't think this will be a bad thing for the Welsh.

We all have a dream I guess. Mine is to win the lottery Very Happy

by SecretFly Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:44 am

A Pro14 ref is all Ireland requires to get the job done.

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:50 am

The Oracle wrote:True, when looking at those stats AWJ looks poor. But according to ESPN Kruis and Lawes only made 5 runs each, for 4 metres and 2 metres respectively. All 3 made pretty much the same number of tackles (16 or 17). Kruis gave away a penalty when the other two didn’t. So on balance AWJ was involved a lot more and made more metres. I’d therefore pick him over his opposition, based on yesterday’s game/stats.

Don’t hit them up with the stats bro. The English don’t like it when we’re able to factually prove time and time again that super AWJ is better than all their overrated locks bar Itoje. AWJ - player of the tournament?

Have to agree that he was a little hit or miss yesterday, but he was mostly hit. Kruis pretty solid all-round, and he was doing his jobs well so not sure why he was brought off. Lawes was pretty massive in defence, although I’m almost certain he knocked on before Curry’s try. Lawes going off helped us out, overrated Launchbury didn’t seem up to much.

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:52 am

SecretFly wrote:A Pro14 ref is all Ireland requires to get the job done.

Glen Jackson isn’t in the Pro14. Aren’t you lot better off spouting your narrow-minded nonsense on the club section where you have an advantage due to our union running the regions into the ground?

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:57 am

Pie wrote:
No9 wrote:Great game, wales deserved it for that 2nd half performance. Liam was outstanding, but Manu Tigulali should have seen RED for grabbing Liam round the throat. If he’s not cited for that, then there’s no justice.

With that, and Sinklers antics, England where lucky not to be down to 13 men at one point.

Biggar coming on was a turning point, but I fear if he had started and Anscombe had come on, then the England may have won.

We have to get a Grand Slam now or its England’s title...

Wales’ tournament to lose now...

All of it handbags for me, but if that’s the laws then yes a citing it should be. Will it happen? No it never does when we’re on the receiving end.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:01 am

SecretFly wrote:A Pro14 ref is all Ireland requires to get the job done.

First I laughed. Then I cried...

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:02 am

Just a quick one because I missed a few comments last night writing out that massive one.

But on Jonny May being the best winger in the world: apart from his speed and the finishing ability that grants him (a big strength, no doubt), in what ways is May better than Josh Adams?

by SecretFly Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:08 am

He looks more James Bondish?

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:26 am

Anyone know why the England players (mostly May and Curry) overcelebrate things? Is it not also embarrassing for the fans?

by SecretFly Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:31 am

They thought they were winning?

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:36 am

Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

by SecretFly Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:37 am

Well, Warren did Jones training field talk for him, didn't he. Saves Jones the trouble...nice of Gats

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:13 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

If May's celebration was "like he's won a World Cup", what were the entire scenes by the Welsh team after they won a home game in Week 3 of the Six Nations?

I get what you're saying, but I have no issues with the players celebrating small victories. It's those small victories that can turn the momentum of a game, especially if everyone buys into it. England should have capitalised on May's kick and chase, turned nothing ball into a possession in the 22, and that close to the half we should have kept it in hand or taken a drop goal.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:17 am

Yeah, Wales did plenty of fist pumping too. See Ken Owens’ big arms in the air celebration for the ref awarding us a penalty!

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:24 am

The Oracle wrote:True, when looking at those stats AWJ looks poor. But according to ESPN Kruis and Lawes only made 5 runs each, for 4 metres and 2 metres respectively. All 3 made pretty much the same number of tackles (16 or 17). Kruis gave away a penalty when the other two didn’t. So on balance AWJ was involved a lot more and made more metres. I’d therefore pick him over his opposition, based on yesterday’s game/stats.

Our locks carry less because we carry the ball less across the board, mainly because we spent the game kicking the ball away. Other than Vunipola, Nowell and Daly no-one carried more than 10 times against Wales. Looking at tackle stats ignores that Kruis went off after around 60 minutes, and therefore made the same number of tackles in less time. I'd say Lawes 16 tackles probably hurt more than Alun-Wyn's 16, as there were a number of big hits passed the gain line.

I'm not saying Alun-Wyn was completely ineffective. But I noticed a number of occasions in the first half him getting stopped dead behind the gainline and thought I'd add my opinion once it was brought up.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:32 am

How many Irish players also got stopped behind the gainline in Dublin Robbo? How many times did AWJ turn the ball over?

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:46 am

miaow wrote:How many Irish players also got stopped behind the gainline in Dublin Robbo? How many times did AWJ turn the ball over?

I don't have a gainline success figure for the game, but James Ryan made 16 carries for 17m, which suggests there were more gainline successes in there. Toner made 1m in 4 carries, but I don't rate him much truth be told, so "better than Toner" isn't a great benchmark.

Every Irish forward other than James Ryan and the replacement front row made less than 1m per carry.

by Guest Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:05 am

robbo277 wrote:
The Oracle wrote:True, when looking at those stats AWJ looks poor. But according to ESPN Kruis and Lawes only made 5 runs each, for 4 metres and 2 metres respectively. All 3 made pretty much the same number of tackles (16 or 17). Kruis gave away a penalty when the other two didn’t. So on balance AWJ was involved a lot more and made more metres. I’d therefore pick him over his opposition, based on yesterday’s game/stats.

Our locks carry less because we carry the ball less across the board, mainly because we spent the game kicking the ball away. Other than Vunipola, Nowell and Daly no-one carried more than 10 times against Wales. Looking at tackle stats ignores that Kruis went off after around 60 minutes, and therefore made the same number of tackles in less time. I'd say Lawes 16 tackles probably hurt more than Alun-Wyn's 16, as there were a number of big hits passed the gain line.

I'm not saying Alun-Wyn was completely ineffective. But I noticed a number of occasions in the first half him getting stopped dead behind the gainline and thought I'd add my opinion once it was brought up.

I agree that AWJ is not the best lock in the world. But I’m happy to have him start for Wales and captain us. I don’t think Hill, Beard or Ball are better than him. One of them compliments him but I wouldn’t drop AWJ for one of them yet. Might not be long before someone overtakes him though, and we might see a partnership of Hill and Beard, or Beard and Ball, etc.

Gatland seems happy with AWJ too, and he knows a lot more about rugby than me! So I’m happy to bow to his superior knowledge on this one! Wink

by TightHEAD Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:19 am

England lack leadership, was beginning to think Farrell was improving but I genuinely think all the off field interviews and BS pre game do not do anything for him.

by mikey_dragon Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:32 am

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

If May's celebration was "like he's won a World Cup", what were the entire scenes by the Welsh team after they won a home game in Week 3 of the Six Nations?

I get what you're saying, but I have no issues with the players celebrating small victories. It's those small victories that can turn the momentum of a game, especially if everyone buys into it. England should have capitalised on May's kick and chase, turned nothing ball into a possession in the 22, and that close to the half we should have kept it in hand or taken a drop goal.

Like they won a vital game in the 6 nations against a team who look like they’re on par with NZ if the first two rounds were anything to go by, thus extending their unbeaten run. Bitter much Laugh

Itoje does it too which has already been alluded to. I know all teams have players that do it but England certainly come across as the most egotistical in that regard. Parkes pretty much walked into touch when he could have done better - another reason to drop him to the bench.

by Taylorman Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:33 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

Interesting. I don't see it as ego's at all. I see it as the result of a long weeks build up of unnecessary tension due to too much buying into the hype of a supposedly big occasion that you'd only really expect from a fan or crowd. In fact I think all that buying in is what 'caused' so many flat English performances. Look at the demeanour of Gatland at the end.

-sooo laid back, shaking hands like he'd just finished a good days work.

Mays actions reflect not just his level of tension- almost at hysteria levels- but his teams. That was a natural response and could only have been derived from the teams massivley hyped buildup. For me, a lot of wasted energy left them flat.

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:36 am

TightHEAD wrote:England lack leadership, was beginning to think Farrell was improving but I genuinely think all the off field interviews and BS pre game do not do anything for him.

Mako is apparently a real leader in the camp, and not having him this week along with his all round game would have left us lacking in a number of departments. We also have Hartley to come back and rejoin the 23.

by robbo277 Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:39 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

If May's celebration was "like he's won a World Cup", what were the entire scenes by the Welsh team after they won a home game in Week 3 of the Six Nations?

I get what you're saying, but I have no issues with the players celebrating small victories. It's those small victories that can turn the momentum of a game, especially if everyone buys into it. England should have capitalised on May's kick and chase, turned nothing ball into a possession in the 22, and that close to the half we should have kept it in hand or taken a drop goal.

Like they won a vital game in the 6 nations against a team who look like they’re on par with NZ if the first two rounds were anything to go by, thus extending their unbeaten run. Bitter much

Itoje does it too which has already been alluded to. I know all teams have players that do it but England certainly come across as the most egotistical in that regard. Parkes pretty much walked into touch when he could have done better - another reason to drop him to the bench.

So what you're saying is that the Welsh celebration was proportionate to the achievement? I'd say that's fair. But I don't think it's true that England "over-celebrated". One fist pump after chasing down Parkes on a 20m start and hauling him into touch isn't over-celebrating. If you think that is Jonny May celebrating "like he won a World Cup", I just hope he gets the chance to prove you wrong in October!

by maestegmafia Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:43 am

robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Fist pumping like the you’ve won the World Cup after a player walks into touch for you, or after you gain a turnover legally for a change is a bit much for me. Jones should bring it up at training as some ego’s clearly need grounding.

If May's celebration was "like he's won a World Cup", what were the entire scenes by the Welsh team after they won a home game in Week 3 of the Six Nations?

I get what you're saying, but I have no issues with the players celebrating small victories. It's those small victories that can turn the momentum of a game, especially if everyone buys into it. England should have capitalised on May's kick and chase, turned nothing ball into a possession in the 22, and that close to the half we should have kept it in hand or taken a drop goal.

Like they won a vital game in the 6 nations against a team who look like they’re on par with NZ if the first two rounds were anything to go by, thus extending their unbeaten run. Bitter much

Itoje does it too which has already been alluded to. I know all teams have players that do it but England certainly come across as the most egotistical in that regard. Parkes pretty much walked into touch when he could have done better - another reason to drop him to the bench.

So what you're saying is that the Welsh celebration was proportionate to the achievement? I'd say that's fair. But I don't think it's true that England "over-celebrated". One fist pump after chasing down Parkes on a 20m start and hauling him into touch isn't over-celebrating. If you think that is Jonny May celebrating "like he won a World Cup", I just hope he gets the chance to prove you wrong in October!

To be fair to May he might have been a little excited but things were not going his way as much as they were in the previous games, maybe he felt like England were turning the corner.

How he reacts with the rest of his squad in the next match will be more conclusive.

by Taylorman Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:19 am

They just need to calm down a refocus on their roles. Simple.

by stub Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:35 am

I think that’s right TM, some losing of heads went on yesterday. Bit calmer and more focussed would be beneficial but probably hard to achieve in that environment. Passion great but needs to be channelled.

by Geen sport voor watjes Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:36 am

AWJ was immense yesterday. I think what is being referred to is the last five to ten mins. He took a bad hit and was out of it ( at least watching on the tv it looked that way). Still soldiered on took the ball up etc while getting hammered. Still didn’t make a mistake despite being all over the shop

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