Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though

Rumour has been floating about for a while, but now the big guns are reporting it.

Duhan Van der Merwe’s…mum is saying that rumours in SA are that Nic Groom is on his way to Edinburgh from the lions for next season.

Looks a decent signing - 29 year old who has played Super Rugby all his career apart from a spell at Northampton.

If he comes in, I would assume it would be back up to Pyrgos. I’ve not seen him play much (if at all) so no idea what his playing style is, but hopefully he offers something a bit different if needed. He also seems to have been linked with us for a couple of years now, so this could end up being exactly the same as that and go no nowhere.

It would also likely spell the end of Kennedy & Fowles time at the club, with Pyrgos, Groom and Shiel.

Well SH was the glaring hole in the Edinburgh squad, if they sign this saffer, they won't be in such a bad place.

Henry P is not likely to go to the WC, baring injuries, so that would leave them Him and Groom as the starting pair, with hopefully Sheil getting time off the bench and building up his experience.

There is also the very highly regarded Jamie Dobie coming out of school this year and likely to go off with the U20s for the junior WC this summer. Several English clubs have been sniffing around him apparently, but he wants to combine rugby and university for a few years. He sounds like a sensible and talented lad and definitely one for the future.

From the sound of things there are a number of young lads coming through the academy/youth teams who should be coming into contention in the near future.

Darge and Boyle both seems to be highly thought of in the BR, but realistically they might need a move to actually get some game time. Maybe a loan. Blain has already (semi) broken into the first team, Rufas McLean at full back is another who seems to be highly rated.

Would be good if a few of these lads got a look in over the next season or two.

Some of those young back rowers and back three players might well need to move down the M8 if they are going to have any chance of breaking through. Edinburgh have a long jam on both fronts and their recent signings have not helped that situation.

I think the back 3 lads might be ok. The players that have come in are already in their late 20s, so likely to get a couple of seasons out of of them (as per their contracts) by that time McLean and Blain will be 21/22 so still reasonably early in their careers and probably looking to start breaking into the first team regularly. Granted they will still likely be behind Darcy, Kinghorn and Duhan, but assuming Cockers rotates they’ll get time.

The back row actually isn’t too bad either. Bill will move on in a year or so when his contract is up, Barclay probably only has one or two seasons left in him as well. There was a lot of chat about Watson thinking about moving on as well, so I would assume that he might look to move once his current deal ends. So whilst we will still have Crosbie, Rtichie, Bradbury etc, there will be gaps in the squad to let these lads break into the side.

EWT Spoons wrote:I think the back 3 lads might be ok.  The players that have come in are already in their late 20s, so likely to get a couple of seasons out of of them (as per their contracts) by that time McLean and Blain will be 21/22 so still reasonably early in their careers and probably looking to start breaking into the first team regularly.  Granted they will still likely be behind Darcy, Kinghorn and Duhan, but assuming Cockers rotates they’ll get time.

The back row actually isn’t too bad either.  Bill will move on in a year or so when his contract is up, Barclay probably only has one or two seasons left in him as well.  There was a lot of chat about Watson thinking about moving on as well, so I would assume that he might look to move once his current deal ends.  So whilst we will still have Crosbie, Rtichie, Bradbury etc, there will be gaps in the squad to let these lads break into the side.

The only rotating Cockers does is the spit when he's roasting out of form players.

In all seriousness, I can't see him rotating much next season either. It's the one frustration with Edinburgh right now, it's not as if you don't have enough potential young talent, the players just aren't getting the chance, even off the bench. Although at least it's not like with Solly where it was just journeymen getting in every week.

If Cockers can get out of his habitual squad selection then Edinburgh will be a force to be reckoned with all season.

Aye the rotation thing was a bit wishful thinking on my part. However at the start of next season with the WC on he might be forced to give some of these lads at least a bench spot.

Hopefully he will have learned from this season’s struggle when the internationals are away and will try and bring in a few of the squad players a bit earlier to get them up to speed.

Watson has committed to Edinburgh long term and it sounds like he doesn’t see himself moving on even ever. He may take the old pension pay-out for the last couple of years in his career but certainly the bulk of this he sees himself at Edinburgh.

I also think Mata has settled here and I reckon he'll be the same as Watson and hand around till he's 31/32 then look to get the French clubs to offer a retirement fund.

tigertattie wrote:Watson has committed to Edinburgh long term and it sounds like he doesn’t see himself moving on even ever. He may take the old pension pay-out for the last couple of years in his career but certainly the bulk of this he sees himself at Edinburgh.

Aww, its sweet that you think that.

Watson's chat pre contract signing was he wasn’t happy and was looking to move. Now things might have changed to convince him to stay (££££) but he was certainly making noises about wanting to move on. I realise that goes against what he’s said in public, but he was hardly likely to say that he wasn’t sure about staying until a load of cash was thrown in his direction.

Mata has basically made it clear he’ll be off at the end of this contract, so he’s away in 2021. Obviously unless something changes in his circumstances.

The Old Glory DC thing has been confirmed now. The social media morons are upset that there’s no third pro team.

These people walk among us.

https://www.scottishrugby.org/news/scottish-rugby-to-link-with-us-mlr-side-%E2%80%98old-glory-dc%E2%80%99

A minority stake and the COO, MacKay sitting on the board.

I don't imagine we have mortgaged the family jewels to sign up for this. The likelihood is that it is going to be more strategic advice and the loan of a few promising players and coaches, who might get some decent experience out of it, a bit like the Satde Nicois arrangement, though possibly a bit more formal.

I am not necessarily seeing this as a bad thing, but some are, a few of the bigger journos on Scottish rugby, Robertson and Palmer have taken a big dislike to it, saying the SRU should be concentrating on the Super 6, or even looking to expand on it.

I am not sure they won't compliment each other though, the Super 6 is looking at player development, getting more players up to the level of being able to go pro. Any players we would send out to the states would be at that level and probably would have contracts, just not be able to get the game time in order to develop. Someone like Paddy Kelly at Glasgow would probably fit into that category or Charlie Sheil at Edinburgh this year.

We are in a slightly difficult position now in that we are almost producing to many decent players for our pro teams, but get not quite enough for the mythical 3rd team, before we ever even consider the maths of trying to finance it.

SJ mentioned that in his sign off interview, it is clearly something that has been talked about, but we are not ready for it yet and may still never be.

Eejit wrote:The Old Glory DC thing has been confirmed now. The social media morons are upset that there’s no third pro team.

These people walk among us.

Where are these people from? Embittered borders people determined that they are still the soul of Scottish Rugby when in actual fact the most successful teams in all tiers of rugby in the past 2 decades have been Glasgow Warriors and Ayr RFC?

Lets just open a 3rd team in Aviemore - you'll get the same attendance as a borders team but without all the moaning and surly glances chucked about between people from Melrose/Gala/Hawick/Jedburgh/Kelso as to who's fault nobody is attending the home games.

Aye, bring on Aviemore Aardvarks, nobody will complain because nobody will care.

Does a professional rugby team exist if nobody is there to watch them lose to the dragons on a regular basis?

The Border Reivers - #whydotheyplayingala? #whynotplayinanyotherbordertown? #imnawgoin #sackthereivers

Sorry that post came across as more bitter than I imagined it would

Oh no, i've become that which I hate - an embittered borders rugby "fan"

To be honest I could see this investment backfiring a few years down the line. Especially if they get good enough to join the Pro14, there will be calls to bring in more American homegrown talent etc. At least with London Scottish it was in the name, although we all know how successful that little venture was...

Although this being said, it could be a huge success, especially if the American league starts breaking even/making money. There also must be quite a pool of Scottish-qualified Americans who aren't fat enough for football.

if the investment is at the 500,00k mark thats like one stuart hogg to the SRU. for a 3rd ownership of a pro rugby team! as far as risky ventures go I'd put down this one as fairly low risk

On the Watson re-signing, the truth is probably between the two stories - I'm sure he was in demand from other clubs but ultimately we don't know how enthusiastic he was about moving. He has a young child now and with the disruption of a world cup coming up too he maybe felt it was a bad time for his family to be moving, which I think plays a big part. He'll be one of the highest earners too - similar to Mata I'm sure.

Worth saying that he went above and beyond in his post-signing interview - he didn't have to say he never thought about leaving and couldn't imagine playing anywhere else. Most re-signing interviews are much more generic.

Either way, it's great that he's staying - he'll be 29 when his contract expires so can cash in then if he so desires.

Mata is definitely off though - if he plays well in the world cup and keeps up his form next season I can't even see him playing out his contract, money will talk eventually.

Tramptastic wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Old Glory DC thing has been confirmed now. The social media morons are upset that there’s no third pro team.

These people walk among us.

Where are these people from? Embittered borders people determined that they are still the soul of Scottish Rugby when in actual fact the most successful teams in all tiers of rugby in the past 2 decades have been Glasgow Warriors and Ayr RFC?

Lets just open a 3rd team in Aviemore - you'll get the same attendance as a borders team but without all the moaning and surly glances chucked about between people from Melrose/Gala/Hawick/Jedburgh/Kelso as to who's fault nobody is attending the home games.

Aye, bring on Aviemore Aardvarks, nobody will complain because nobody will care.

Does a professional rugby team exist if nobody is there to watch them lose to the dragons on a regular basis?

The Border Reivers - #whydotheyplayingala? #whynotplayinanyotherbordertown? #imnawgoin #sackthereivers

That was a magnificent rant. Well done sir.

Where did Watson say he wasn't happy or looking elsewhere?

There were rumours on Twitter - I didn't see him publicly say anywhere.

Ahhhhh Twitter. 100% guaranteed facts you get on there

Was it not Twitter that broke the news that a new borders team was to be formed in walkerburn?

The novelty of using the long net on a pole to retrieve the ball from the burn was the deciding factor

tigertattie wrote:Ahhhhh Twitter. 100% guaranteed facts you get on there

Was it not Twitter that broke the news that a new borders team was to be formed in walkerburn?

The novelty of using the long net on a pole to retrieve the ball from the burn was the deciding factor

This is just getting sad now. Hamish Watson will probably leave at the end of his contract. You need to accept this and move on. This is unhealthy.

We're all here for you.

Did you ever play at walkerburn? Their pitch had an absolutely cracking view of the hills! Lovely view, good club spirit (their supporters ran over with a tray of half time oranges for us) and a decent clubhouse but half way through this season they withdrew from the league again

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/mar/28/scottish-rugby-union-stake-old-glory-washington-dc-mlr

A slightly more in depth interview with the owners of the 'Old Glory' club in the guardian.

It does not sound like a huge amount of money, $500,000 or so and being paid over a few seasons.

They are still looking for other partners so the 28% share that exists currently may get diluted down a bit as well.

Suggestions of some games out there as well.

Interesting times.

Eejit wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Old Glory DC thing has been confirmed now. The social media morons are upset that there’s no third pro team.

These people walk among us.

Where are these people from? Embittered borders people determined that they are still the soul of Scottish Rugby when in actual fact the most successful teams in all tiers of rugby in the past 2 decades have been Glasgow Warriors and Ayr RFC?

Lets just open a 3rd team in Aviemore - you'll get the same attendance as a borders team but without all the moaning and surly glances chucked about between people from Melrose/Gala/Hawick/Jedburgh/Kelso as to who's fault nobody is attending the home games.

Aye, bring on Aviemore Aardvarks, nobody will complain because nobody will care.

Does a professional rugby team exist if nobody is there to watch them lose to the dragons on a regular basis?

The Border Reivers - #whydotheyplayingala? #whynotplayinanyotherbordertown? #imnawgoin #sackthereivers

That was a magnificent rant. Well done sir.

I've played in the borders too many times to have sympathy for borders teams. The laws are often considered optional down there - by the teams and the refs

Tramptastic wrote:

Eejit wrote:

Tramptastic wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Old Glory DC thing has been confirmed now. The social media morons are upset that there’s no third pro team.

These people walk among us.

Where are these people from? Embittered borders people determined that they are still the soul of Scottish Rugby when in actual fact the most successful teams in all tiers of rugby in the past 2 decades have been Glasgow Warriors and Ayr RFC?

Lets just open a 3rd team in Aviemore - you'll get the same attendance as a borders team but without all the moaning and surly glances chucked about between people from Melrose/Gala/Hawick/Jedburgh/Kelso as to who's fault nobody is attending the home games.

Aye, bring on Aviemore Aardvarks, nobody will complain because nobody will care.

Does a professional rugby team exist if nobody is there to watch them lose to the dragons on a regular basis?

The Border Reivers - #whydotheyplayingala? #whynotplayinanyotherbordertown? #imnawgoin #sackthereivers

That was a magnificent rant. Well done sir.

I've played in the borders too many times to have sympathy for borders teams. The laws are often considered optional down there - by the teams and the refs

Some of my worst rugby memories are in the borders - they would relish giving us city boys a doing and half the town would be there watching. I remember Graham Hogg - Stuart's big brother - ripping us to pieces when I played Edinburgh under 16s (state schools) v borders!

We did however beat hawick high school in the early rounds of the schools cup - the match report in the hawick news talked of the plucky home team only losing because we were much older and bigger than they were. Load of rubbish!

I remember when I was a wee lad we went down to play an U14s and my opposite number had fully grown facial hair.

Tough paper rounds down there.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/newly-minted-glaswegian-understands-those-that-dont-want-him-in-a-scottish-jersey

An interesting back story about Kyle Steyn and his family and how he got picked up by Scotland.

A fascinating story.

I went to see Nelson Mandela speak at the old Wembley Stadium in 1990, just after he was released and the first time he came over to the UK on a tour.

I have to say it was an incredible experience, he could hold a crowd of 100,000 people in the palm of his hand. I was very priviledged to be there and i will always remember it.

Really good article. Early days yet but he looks some player. He was running some cracking lines vs Cheetahs.

Anyone that has a problem with Kyle Steyn, Nick Grigg, WP Nel or anyone else playing for Scotland should have a long, hard look in the mirror and have a think about what kind of person they want to be when they wake up tomorrow. Being born in the northern, hilly part of this rainy island doesn't give someone a license to tell anyone else they're less Scottish than they are.

Not wishing to get ahead of myself here in any way, or tempt fate. The draw for the RC Cup for the semi final has Glasgow at home, if successful against Sarries.
This could throw up an all Scottish semi, so, do they select to play in the cauldron that is Scotstoun (approx. 10K attendance) or do they give up home advantage and play at Murrayfield (potential 67K attendance)?
Apologies if this has been raised before, and I haven't seen it.
Personally I would go for Murrayfield. Ok, it surrenders home advantage, but the pitch appears to be bigger, better for Glasgow's open style, and psychologically it says "come on Edinburgh, we don't care where we play you, we'll even play our home game on your turf". There is also the opportunity for a massive gate receipt.
And, it's on Easter weekend, so family Anglo could go!

They hsve already stated it will be Murrsyfidld
Makes sense really, despite it being a graveyard for Glasgow recently!

More from Watson on why he re-signed - as I thought having a family played a big part and he mentions wanting to raise his daughter in Edinburgh. Of course that doesn't rule him out of moving somewhere band leaving the family, but that's a big ask to do.

I'm appalled to find out he's a weegie!


“I have a family here now and that played a huge part,” said the 27-year-old Manchester-born openside, who qualifies for Scotland through his Glaswegian grandparents, and hot-shot christian name! “I’ve got a little baby so to raise her in Edinburgh is something me and my fiancée wanted to do. It was a pretty easy decision in the end. “You’d be silly not to talk to clubs and see what’s out there, but it was a pretty easy decision. I really want to try and win stuff with Edinburgh. I’ve signed for two years so if it takes two years or however many, will see what happens. I feel there is a lot of unfinished business here.”


Read more at: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/edinburgh-s-hamish-watson-aims-to-be-pasta-master-in-munster-clash-1-4897876

Welly wrote: Where did Watson say he wasn't happy or looking elsewhere?

He mentioned it to a couple of players/Edinburgh staff. Nothing was every actually released publicly. I 100% trust it though.

Tramptastic wrote:Did you ever play at walkerburn? Their pitch had an absolutely cracking view of the hills! Lovely view, good club spirit (their supporters ran over with a tray of half time oranges for us) and a decent clubhouse but half way through this season they withdrew from the league again

Sure have. It's one of the best places to go if you're a sub. You get to look at the view and retrieve the ball from the burn with the net on a long pole when someone kicks to touch!

Lovely wee club but with a population of 3 and the neighbouring town of Innerleithen being a "football" town, then Walkerburn jsut struggles to get the players. I beleive they stil lhave their annual 7s tournament though as they can get a team together for that!

EWT Spoons wrote:

Welly wrote: Where did Watson say he wasn't happy or looking elsewhere?

He mentioned it to a couple of players/Edinburgh staff.  Nothing was every actually released publicly.  I 100% trust it though.

You get a lot of insider gossip - are you really Bill Mata?

Anglo

Glasgow would have home country advantage not home advantage. Presumably Murrayfield is the only logical ground unless they want to give the proceeds from the biggest Scottish club game ever to
a football club.

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

Welly wrote: Where did Watson say he wasn't happy or looking elsewhere?

He mentioned it to a couple of players/Edinburgh staff.  Nothing was every actually released publicly.  I 100% trust it though.

You get a lot of insider gossip - are you really Bill Mata?

You've found me out, I joined this board back in 2012 in the hope that one day I would sign for a Scottish club and it would make sense.

EWT Spoons wrote:

RDW wrote:

EWT Spoons wrote:

Welly wrote: Where did Watson say he wasn't happy or looking elsewhere?

He mentioned it to a couple of players/Edinburgh staff.  Nothing was every actually released publicly.  I 100% trust it though.

You get a lot of insider gossip - are you really Bill Mata?

You've found me out, I joined this board back in 2012 in the hope that one day I would sign for a Scottish club and it would make sense.

Can have your autograph please?

Also, I know you are proud and loyal family man, but could you ask the Mrs for a free pass please? We'd very much like for you to find as many physically impressive females in Edinburgh as you can and spawn a whole generation of backrowers

Thanks

I think if Glasgow win we've already chosen Murrayfield whether Edinburgh win or not.

Yeah Glasgow will be at Murrayfield whatever happens, which makes sense - Glasgow playing at Murrayfield gives them much better home advantage then the likes of Ibrox which would pretty much be a neutral ground, being the first time for both teams. Plus a lot of the money earned would go to a football club (even worse - Rangers football club!)

I'm sure the weegies would have a good moan about it though!

RDW wrote:Yeah Glasgow will be at Murrayfield whatever happens, which makes sense - Glasgow playing at Murrayfield gives them much better home advantage then the likes of Ibrox which would pretty much be a neutral ground, being the first time for both teams. Plus a lot of the money earned would go to a football club (even worse - Rangers football club!)

I'm sure the weegies would have a good moan about it though!

Now now. Rangers are the most successful club on these here islands with 54 league titles and 33 Scottish cups, supported by but not limited to one Mr Alastair 'Al' Kellock. 158 appearances for Glasgow Warriors (the most successful professional rugby team in Scotland) and 56 caps and former captain of the Scottish national team.

Ibrox would be a lovely place for European Rugby if the pitchside area wasn't too small for it!

Nathan Fowles off to Ealing for next season, which probably explains why Cockers is finally bringing Sheil onto the bench to finally try and get him up to speed. Just makes you wonder why he did not do it earlier in the season?

Fowles has never really shown himself to be good enough at this level, so no surprise to see him moving on. Kennedy, who has been even less imprerssive in recent years, after a promising start to his professional career, will surely be joining him in moving on.

Another SH will be on the way, sounds like it may well be Groom.

Big Ritchie Gray starting for Toulouse in their game against Racing in Paris on sunday. Looks like his come back from the back injury is going well.

Sam HC on the bench for Quins against Worcester, with possibly the good news story of the season, CDP on the bench for his Worcester comeback. I think everyone will be wishing him well.

Many thanks guys for the feedback on the 'home' semi final. There's just the small matter now of both our teams coming through the qf ties.....
Fingers crossed I get to take the young Anglos up to Murrayfield.

BigGee wrote:Nathan Fowles off to Ealing for next season...

Terrible shame, he'll be sorely missed. Also, he can bugger off.

So. That wasn’t a fun day for Scottish rugby

I think all of Scottish rugby are currently getting smashed.

I am!