Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though

bico wrote:I have just found this site. Can anyone tell me the TV company who has the rights for the Edinburgh / Glasgow games next year?

Welcome bico

All the Pro 14 games are on Premier Sports, that is all of them, not just the Glasgow and Edinburgh games.

It is on the Sky and Virgin Platforms and you can also get it via your PC or phone. At £10 per month, you would have to say it is very good value and it is on a monthly contract, so you can dip in and out of it as you please.

Looks like the boss beat me to it!

We know that Glasgow Warriors are a rugby team that play in the Pro14. We’re still not quite sure what the luvvies from the east are playing - maybe it’s some sort of linedance.

https://www.606v2.com/t68685-glasgow-warriors-v-edinburgh-saturday-27th-april

let's get going then!

Ah well, so it's Robogym against the Ladyboys after all.

Would happily watch either side get mashed as their respective 24 carat levels of smugness are overwhelming, so I suppose that makes me a neutral.

Many thanks! This looks like a great site. Hope to join in in the future.

bico wrote:Many thanks! This looks like a great site. Hope to join in in the future.

We're a welcoming bunch.

Just keep clear of Jimbo and his glasgow cronies if you are a true fan of rugby and support Edinburgh.

I'm keeping score tigertattie and that's another beer you'll have to buy me while I accept your apologies and then explain the finer points of rugby.

I have just purchased Madeline Miller's "Circe" and look forward to reading it: her previous, "Song Of Achilles" was excellent and made me realise that if there is such a thing as reincarnation then Achilles the living god has come back as Lord Stafford Of McDowall.

The other book waiting to be read is Anthony Beevor's "Arnhem". A few years ago I played sweeper for our staff footie team. We had a Dutch goalkeeper and he arranged a match against a side in Den Haag. We all kipped at his parent's. Jan's father was very gentle and polite and well mannered. On the last morning he invited me into his study (the lads had the run of the house but no-one was allowed into his study, ever, Jan was amazed) he showed me old photos of when he played sweeper back in the 50's and 60's and his library and antique writing desk. Afterwards I was telling Jan and asked, "Where did the bullet casings on the bureau come from?"
"Have you seen the film A Bridge Too Far? Well, just behind the old man's house was the field where the British laid out their wounded. After dark dad would go out with a pail full of water for them. When it was over he collected up some cartridges and has kept them ever since."
Every so often you meet people and Willie McIlvanney's  comment about "crack open any stone and reveal an archeology richer than Troy's" seems the only appropriate thought.

I always thought Weegies had Al Kellock has the reincarnation of Achillies, with rucking and all forms of physicality his "heel"....

Almost funny, Oh festering one, but a trifle forced. Big Al was not so much the reincarnation of anyone but the long lost love child of Benny Lynch and Mary "Doll" Nesbitt.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/six-future-stars-from-the-u18-six-nations-festival

That is interesting.

Jamie Dobie, who is probably the stand out player from our U18 team and who is just finishing school at Merchiston and likely to go to the JWC with the U20s, may be getting an immediate contract with Glasgow.

Other than the obvious, why would you choose Edinburgh, when Glasgow are interested in you, that actually makes more sense than it might initially seem.

Yes Glasgow have two international SHs, but the problem with that, is that they are both going to be away playing for Scotland a lot over the next couple of years. You would assume that GL will call it a day after the WC and that Pricey and Hornito will then pick up the slack

Dobie, who apparently was interesting several English sides as well could learn his trade and get a decent amount of game time in Glasgow over the next couple of years as opposed to killing some time in the Edinburgh academy.

This might be a good move all round.

BigGee wrote:https://www.rugbypass.com/news/six-future-stars-from-the-u18-six-nations-festival

That is interesting.

Jamie Dobie, who is probably the stand out player from our U18 team and who is just finishing school at Merchiston and likely to go to the JWC with the U20s, may be getting an immediate contract with Glasgow.

Other than the obvious, why would you choose Edinburgh, when Glasgow are interested in you, that actually makes more sense than it might initially seem.

Yes Glasgow have two international SHs, but the problem with that, is that they are both going to be away playing for Scotland a lot over the next couple of years. You would  assume that GL will call it a day after the WC and that Pricey and Hornito will then pick up the slack

Dobie, who apparently was interesting several English sides as well could learn his trade and get a decent amount of game time in Glasgow over the next couple of years as opposed to killing some time in the Edinburgh academy.

This might be a good move all round.

I don't get the Edinburgh bit? The article says he's been offered a deal with Glasgow.

Well he is an Edinburgh boy, in their academy but makes a good choice to go West!

I don't think the academy allegiance counts for too much - the players go where they are needed. I think Charlie Shiel was in the Glasgow academy for a while for example.

We would just be glad to have him. Sounds like a prospect. I watched a couple of those U18 games and he was a standout

In other news, Duncan Hodge's contract is up this summer but he's apparently getting an extension.

Not sure on what basis he's deserved that - we've never been a good attacking team under his reign and apparently we've scored 11 less tries in the league this season than last season so we're getting worse!

Hodge isnt an attack coach, he's a kick it to x, y or z coach

I've never understood why Cockers has kept him around. He needs to go!

RDW wrote:In other news, Duncan Hodge's contract is up this summer but he's apparently getting an extension.

Not sure on what basis he's deserved that - we've never been a good attacking team under his reign and apparently we've scored 11 less tries in the league this season than last season so we're getting worsebetter at being useless with the ball in hand!

Fixed that for you.

Takes an outstanding coach to work out a way to score fewer tries with King Blarehorn, Darc'y and the ex- in your back line.

Hodge has shown remarkable longevity. I agree a fresh face is needed.

Cockers kind of inherited Hodge, but he seems to have stuck with him, surely if he wanted to off load him at this stage, then he would have been allowed to do so.

It kind of suggests that the Edinburgh attacking game plan (or lack of it) comes from the main man as much as it does from Hodge and Cockers seems happy enough with it.

Trouble is it is just to limited to be really effective in modern rugby. Most of the hard grinding teams who are successful, like Sarries and Exeter can also cut loose when they see it is on and Edinburgh just can't or won't do that. They can have three or four man overlaps out in the backs and the forwards will just keep on picking and going. Yes it works sometime, but that just reinforces the tactic and it will really only get you so far.

BigGee wrote:Cockers kind of inherited Hodge, but he seems to have stuck with him, surely if he wanted to off load him at this stage, then he would have been allowed to do so.

It kind of suggests that the Edinburgh attacking game plan (or lack of it) comes from the main man as much as it does from Hodge and Cockers seems happy enough with it.

Trouble is it is just to limited to be really effective in modern rugby. Most of the hard grinding teams who are successful, like Sarries and Exeter can also cut loose when they see it is on and Edinburgh just can't or won't do that. They can have three or four man overlaps out in the backs and the forwards will just keep on picking and going. Yes it works sometime, but that just reinforces the tactic and it will really only get you so far.

That's my thought as well, i'm really not sure Hodge is allowed to contribute anything at all in terms of how the team is set out to play. It's an extraordinarily negative gameplan that Cockers has adopted since the 6N, and one that doesn't really need an attack coach at all.

All that being said, Hodge has never impressed throughout his coaching career, so I wouldn't be at all adverse to him being moved on.

funnyExiledScot wrote:Hodge has shown remarkable longevity. I agree a fresh face is needed.

So has Bovril, FES old socks and I don't understand that one either.

Good interview with Stuart Hogg

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/interview-stuart-hogg-on-how-he-almost-quit-glasgow-after-two-weeks-1-4914734

He certainly has been the boy who grew up before our eyes.

Older and wiser now definitely!

Too much rugby chat on this thread

Anyone care to discuss greenhouse gas emmissions?

(and no, I'm not talking about jimbo after drinking a bottle of scrumpy while consumping a baked bean curry)

Glasgow get Bruce Flockhart and Tom Gordon signed up for another 1 and 2 years respectively.

They must rate Gordon quite highly then, probably see him as the replacement for Fusaro over the next couple of years. He certainly looked half decent in the few opportunities he got this season.

Good to see us getting our squad players nailed down for next season.

tigertattie wrote:Too much rugby chat on this thread

Anyone care to discuss greenhouse gas emmissions?

(and no, I'm not talking about jimbo after drinking a bottle of scrumpy while consumping a baked bean curry)

Or the general stream of hot air coming from Ryan Wilson's mouth

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

tigertattie wrote:Too much rugby chat on this thread

Anyone care to discuss greenhouse gas emmissions?

(and no, I'm not talking about jimbo after drinking a bottle of scrumpy while consumping a baked bean curry)

Or the general stream of hot air coming from Ryan Wilson's mouth

Llama, you win the internet today!

Glasgow having a bit of a mini signing spree this week, after Lee Jones yesterday, Flockhart and Gordon this morning, they are joined by Robbie Nairn and Rory Hughes this afternoon.

Nairn gets a two year deal, which should allow him to continue his development path and Hughes a year with an option of another (which will presumably depend on him being able to stay fit!)

Hughes is a good squad player and Nairn has the potential to become an international, both are good signings.

This just in - poster Tigertattie agrees with Billy Vunipola

... in not liking Ryan Wilson.

Eejit wrote:This just in - poster Tigertattie agrees with Billy Vunipola

... in not liking Ryan Wilson.

Ahhh come on. Even the most buckie blasted Glasgow fan needs to admit that Wilson is a bit of a muppet.

He's the naughty kid that sits in the corner of the classroom and 50% of what he says and does is funny, but the other 50% you just shake your head at as he's gone too far.

Meanwhile the teacher is of the belief that 100% of his antics are nonsense and if they had thier way, he'd have been punted out to the remedial class for difficult children but in this day and age of inclusion, that option is sadly gone!

tigertattie wrote:

Eejit wrote:This just in - poster Tigertattie agrees with Billy Vunipola

... in not liking Ryan Wilson.

Ahhh come on. Even the most buckie blasted Glasgow fan needs to admit that Wilson is a bit of a muppet.

He's the naughty kid that sits in the corner of the classroom and 50% of what he says and does is funny, but the other 50% you just shake your head at as he's gone too far.

Meanwhile the teacher is of the belief that 100% of his antics are nonsense and if they had thier way, he'd have been punted out to the remedial class for difficult children but in this day and age of inclusion, that option is sadly gone!

Maybe up in your neck of the woods. Down in England they are "off-rolled" and consigned to "home-schooling".


Have to say this thread is far too pleasant.

LondonTiger wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

Eejit wrote:This just in - poster Tigertattie agrees with Billy Vunipola

... in not liking Ryan Wilson.

Ahhh come on. Even the most buckie blasted Glasgow fan needs to admit that Wilson is a bit of a muppet.

He's the naughty kid that sits in the corner of the classroom and 50% of what he says and does is funny, but the other 50% you just shake your head at as he's gone too far.

Meanwhile the teacher is of the belief that 100% of his antics are nonsense and if they had thier way, he'd have been punted out to the remedial class for difficult children but in this day and age of inclusion, that option is sadly gone!

Maybe up in your neck of the woods. Down in England they are "off-rolled" and consigned to "home-schooling".


Have to say this thread is far too pleasant.

You're just too used to dealing with the poo-flinging in other threads from certain Welsh posters.

Stole this from GW twitter/website

Glasgow Warriors Leavers 2018/19
Brian Alainu’uese – 22 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Jamie Bhatti – 13 Scotland caps, 44 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Kevin Bryce – 3 Scotland caps, 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Alex Dunbar – 31 Scotland caps, 119 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 15 tries
Stuart Hogg – 7 British and Irish Lions appearances, 67 Scotland caps, 118 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 220 points, 30 tries
James Malcolm – 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Lelia Masaga – 8 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Greg Peterson – 31 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Robbie Smith – 1 Glasgow Warriors appearance
Lewis Wynne – 18 Glasgow Warriors appearances

Glasgow Warriors have confirmed the players who will be leaving the club at the end of the 2018/19 season, including four Scotland internationals.

Alex Dunbar and Kevin Bryce will depart Scotstoun at the conclusion of the current campaign, the pair joining Stuart Hogg and Jamie Bhatti in moving on to pastures new.

Hogg, whose move south to join Exeter Chiefs was confirmed earlier this season, will leave the club after eight years, scoring 30 tries in over a century of appearances with the Warriors.

The 67-times capped Scotland full-back and two-time British and Irish Lion has been a key component in the most successful spell in Glasgow’s history, helping the club to an inaugural Guinness PRO12 title in 2014/15 in addition to a brace of European quarter-finals.

Fellow centurion Alex Dunbar will also be moving on at the end of the season, following 119 caps in a decade-long career at Scotstoun.

The 28-year-old, currently on loan at Newcastle Falcons, was a fixture in the Warriors midfield during his time at the club, with his brand of hard-running rugby making him a threat to defences throughout the league.

Loose-head prop Bhatti will make the journey along the M8 at the end of the current campaign, with the 25-year-old set to join Edinburgh next season.

The former Stirling County and Melrose man made his first appearance for the Warriors in a 63-0 pre-season win over Canada A at Bridgehaugh, going on to make his Scotland debut in the victory over Samoa in November 2017.

Bryce, who has earned three caps for his country, has made 25 appearances over two spells at the club, having re-joined the Warriors in the summer of 2018.

A former recipient of the Macphail Scholarship, the hooker was part of the Scotland squad for the 2015 Rugby World Cup, making one appearance in the group stage win over the USA.

Two more hookers will join Bryce in leaving the club at the end of the season, with the departures of Robbie Smith and James Malcolm having already been confirmed.

Fosroc Scottish Rugby Academy Stage 3 player Smith, who made his debut in the 9-3 win over the Ospreys in January, will join Bedford Blues ahead of the 2019/20 campaign.

He will come up against Malcolm in next season’s English Championship, with the 24-year-old having signed with London Scottish for next season.

Malcolm will join up with Lewis Wynne at the Richmond Athletic Ground, after the back-rower’s loan switch to London Scottish was made permanent last month.

Finally, New Zealand winger Lelia Masaga will depart Scotstoun at the end of the season, bringing an end to a two-year stint with the Warriors.

The 32-year-old has made eight appearances for Dave Rennie’s side, scoring his sole try for the club in last season’s victory over Zebre at Scotstoun.

Second-row duo Brian Alainu’uese and Greg Peterson both left the club during the 2018/19 campaign, joining Toulon and Bordeaux-Begles respectively.

Glasgow Warriors Head Coach, Dave Rennie, said: “It says a lot about the club that so many players are staying but as is always the case in sport, people sometimes need new experiences and challenges.

“Stuart Hogg and Alex Dunbar especially, they have both played over 100 games and given a decade of service to Glasgow Warriors and have played a huge part in helping the club get to where it is today.

“Everyone leaves with our blessing and best wishes for the future and we look forward to spending the next few weeks together as a group and can hopefully make some special memories together.

“We’re desperate to give the men who won’t be here next year a send-off appropriate to what they’ve given to this club in the remaining games of the season.”

Glasgow Warriors Leavers 2018/19

Brian Alainu’uese – 22 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Jamie Bhatti – 13 Scotland caps, 44 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Kevin Bryce – 3 Scotland caps, 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Alex Dunbar – 31 Scotland caps, 119 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 15 tries
Stuart Hogg – 7 British and Irish Lions appearances, 67 Scotland caps, 118 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 220 points, 30 tries
James Malcolm – 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Lelia Masaga – 8 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Greg Peterson – 31 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Robbie Smith* – 1 Glasgow Warriors appearance
Lewis Wynne – 18 Glasgow Warriors appearances

*Fosroc Scottish Rugby Academy Stage 3 player

Eejit wrote:Stole this from GW twitter/website

Glasgow Warriors Leavers 2018/19
Brian Alainu’uese – 22 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Jamie Bhatti – 13 Scotland caps, 44 Glasgow Warriors appearances
Kevin Bryce – 3 Scotland caps, 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Alex Dunbar – 31 Scotland caps, 119 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 15 tries
Stuart Hogg – 7 British and Irish Lions appearances, 67 Scotland caps, 118 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 220 points, 30 tries
James Malcolm – 25 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Lelia Masaga – 8 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 1 try
Greg Peterson – 31 Glasgow Warriors appearances, 3 tries
Robbie Smith – 1 Glasgow Warriors appearance
Lewis Wynne – 18 Glasgow Warriors appearances

No real surprises there but...

James Malcolm arrived like a hurricane, left like a sigh.
Kevin Bryce so nearly made it as a pro: you've got to wonder how good he could have been.
And
Alex Dunbar, really could have been the outstanding 12 in the Northern hemisphere .
I was watching a clip on my Smart TV (doncha hate it when your telly's smarter than you) of Sam Johnson talking about being called up to the Scotland squad. It was obviously shot in the team hotel as just over his shoulder you could see the players mingling in a dining/meeting room. Smiling Sam was his usual modest self-effacing self but just at the end as he's talking a player heads towards the open door, looks over sees the interview taking place, pauses for a second and then disappears into the room. It was Alex Dunbar, I couldn't help wondering how he felt seeing his replacement being given the media treatment. sic transit Gloria mundi as they say in Govan (but only on Giro day).

Well that ties up most of the odds and ends for Glasgow from the existing squad.

No contract announcements yet for Kelly and the Nuke, but you would imagine that they will be coming.

With Bryce and Bhatti going we are surely going to need another hooker and LH, I know we have got a couple of young ones on board but definitely need another one with a few miles on the clock.

Davidson will cover the second row leavers, but we could do with another one as well, hopefully a suitable monster has been arranged.

We are not badly off for numbers in the back row, just maybe a bit light on a big carrier.

With the two Scotland SHs likely to be away a lot, we surely need another SH. Jamie Dobie seems to be on his way, but we should not be expecting to much of him at 18 and in his first year as a pro, we may well need another.

Kelly will hopefully step up at IC, but with Johnson away, we are a little light there, so maybe some more back up needed.

OC & centre and wing, we should be fine but the void at FB is going to need to be filled.

The Cruden rumours went a bit cold over the weekend with the French Press saying the deal was off. Who knows on that one, we just have to wait and see.

All in all though, the squad is not in a bad place for next season.

There were rumours that we've signed Mesulame Kunavula as Nasoko has gone to Edinburgh.

Eejit wrote:There were rumours that we've signed Mesulame Kunavula as Nasoko has gone to Edinburgh.

He can play second row/blind side I think, so could be just what we need

BigGee wrote:

Eejit wrote:There were rumours that we've signed Mesulame Kunavula as Nasoko has gone to Edinburgh.

He can play second row/blind side I think, so could be just what we need

I've seen a video highlights reel; he doesn't seem to have Big Bad Bob's handling skills so I can't envisage him getting the 6 jersey off him.

And who ever heard of a Fijian second row being any good?

Frustrating to see Malcolm and Wynne leave as they appeared to have potential. Hopefully it is a case of them going to get some gametime at a decent level before coming back. More frustrating with Malcolm going as we have an obvious need for a depth hooker behind Stewart whilst Turner and Brown are coming back from the RWC.

Not sure how to feel about Cruden. We have Hastings, P Horne, Thomson and Jackson who can play 10. Hastings, Jackson and Thomson can all play 15 as can Seymour, Matawalu and potentially McDowall.

If we are going to have a big money player come in, I would love one of the Du Preez twins to come in and grab the BS spot. LH we have Thornton coming in and guess Glasgow could grab Marfo.

Shame about a few of those players, had hoped Bhatti, Wynne and Bryce would all be strong players for Glasgow. Also sad about Big Brian and Masaga and their injury woes, I thought both were good signings initially but in the end they were both not able to give a good account of their skillset really.

Interested to see who comes in for Glasgow as there is a really good template there for a Pro14 winning squad in 2019/2020

Careful of the Cruden rumour, Stephen Larkham is still making his way to Edinburgh...

Pleased for little Lee Jones. That's one wing we don't have to concern ourselves with in future 1872 fixtures....

Where's Dunbar going? Is he going to stay at Newcastle?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Careful of the Cruden rumour, Stephen Larkham is still making his way to Edinburgh...

Pleased for little Lee Jones. That's one wing we don't have to concern ourselves with in future 1872 fixtures....

Where's Dunbar going? Is he going to stay at Newcastle?

He's on loan at the moment but with them realisticlaly going down next season, I can seehim looking around for another club needing a 12.

On his day he's still a good player but he's held together with sticky-back plastic. Sadly a move to an English or french club is going to see him flogged or not get any gametime if he's not seen as a better option to other players in the position already there

Interestingly in recent interview he's been saying he feels in good physical shape for the first time in ages and is frustrated not getting gametime. That may all be a bit exaggerated since he's looking for a new club, but hopefully it is true as he could do with a break.

If anything playing in the Championship with Newcastle may not be too bad a thing to build up his fitness and confidence - he can then come roaring back in 2020 to push for Scotland again (if his body holds up). He's still got a few years left if it does.

Whatever happened to Mark Bennett? Dunbar/Bennett looked so promising a few years ago

LondonTiger wrote:Whatever happened to Mark Bennett? Dunbar/Bennett looked so promising a few years ago

Injury/getting moved to Edinburgh, the place where good careers go to die.

Injury has played a huge part - he's had 2 major injuries since the last world cup and hasn't been the same phyiscally since.

Edinburgh's tactics certainly haven't helped but he's also not the same player he used to be physically.

RDW wrote:Injury has played a huge part - he's had 2 major injuries since the last world cup and hasn't been the same phyiscally since.

Edinburgh's tactics certainly haven't helped but he's also not the same player he used to be physically.

I prefer my phrasing.

I can see Dunbar staying in Newcastle. They are likely to lose Johnny Williams (their 1st choice 12 back to LI) and getting a good run of games in, in a less pressured environment might be just what he needs to rebuild the body and the mind.

Newcastle are very likely to come straight back up as well, so he could well be a premiership player in a years time.

As for internationals, I think that ship may well have sailed, the emergence of Johnson and McDowell behind him may well have pushed him out whatever his fitness situation in any case. The reason Glasgow have let him go is that they see those two as better prospects going forward.