Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though

jimbopip wrote:The Luvvies will manage to be fifth in the Remedial Group and get to play in sunny Turkmenistan the following season....again.

Your new stadium will be keech and Cockers will get a ten year contract extension. he will make a statement of intent by signing Brodie Retallick to play outside centre.


Meanwhile Glasgow's upward trajectory will continue and next May will see us crowned champions once again.

Luvvietoon is a cesspit of moral ambivalence and camomile tea drinking Boris loving People's friend reading knitwear modelling 50 Shades reading Luvvies.


I'm off on my jollyhols in half an hour so I just wanted to clear my system before we headed to the airport.  Missing you already.  

Getting deja vu here - been hearing that all of the recent season passed. How did that work out for you?  

Too soon?

p.s. enjoy your holidays - I hear Saga holidays are really good these days.

Edinburgh in a pool with Wasps, Bordeaux and Agen

Should be fairly entertaining, away trips to wasps and bordeaux will be tricky unless bordeaux decide they just arent bothered at all

Wasps home and away will be challenging

Glasgow get

Exeter
La Rochelle
Sale

Glasgow in with Exeter, La Rochelle and Sale

That is a good pool for them and funny for Hogg to immediately be playing against his former club!

Good group for Glasgow - no easy games but none of the teams have champions cup European pedigree.

So, Hogg could get another game at scotstoun yet.

Be and odd game for him that one.

I think it's a decent draw for Glasgow. Could certainly have been worse (e.g. the Sarries pool), and all their opponents feel beatable. Then again Exeter and La Rochelle will be feeling exactly the same way.

I think Exeter are a step beyond where Glasgow are just now but La Rochelle should be beatable.

I'm not sure Exeter are too far ahead of Glasgow, I think they're very similar sides. Both of them firm seconds in their respective leagues. I think we have a better 9, 10, 12 and 13. They've a much better back three and probably have a slight edge in the pack.

123456789. wrote:I'm not sure Exeter are too far ahead of Glasgow, I think they're very similar sides. Both of them firm seconds in their respective leagues. I think we have a better 9, 10, 12 and 13. They've a much better back three and probably have a slight edge in the pack.

A slight edge?? Exeter's pack is one of the best and most effective in Europe - Glasgow's pack...

RDW wrote:

123456789. wrote:I'm not sure Exeter are too far ahead of Glasgow, I think they're very similar sides. Both of them firm seconds in their respective leagues. I think we have a better 9, 10, 12 and 13. They've a much better back three and probably have a slight edge in the pack.

A slight edge?? Exeter's pack is one of the best and most effective in Europe - Glasgow's pack...

Target the halfbacks and use your own to control territory and then you can negate the Chiefs pack. Probably not for the full game but enough to stop them pulling away on the scoreboard.

Chiefs have a great squad but average half back options. Steenson and Simmonds are both good, solid all rounders but they aren't likely to break into international rugby, they are club level players. Similar story at 9 really with White not moving the side on in the way Chiefs will have hoped. The other 9s are academy products in their early twenties and who haven't come close to their peak yet.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

RDW wrote:

123456789. wrote:I'm not sure Exeter are too far ahead of Glasgow, I think they're very similar sides. Both of them firm seconds in their respective leagues. I think we have a better 9, 10, 12 and 13. They've a much better back three and probably have a slight edge in the pack.

A slight edge?? Exeter's pack is one of the best and most effective in Europe - Glasgow's pack...

Target the halfbacks and use your own to control territory and then you can negate the Chiefs pack. Probably not for the full game but enough to stop them pulling away on the scoreboard.

Chiefs have a great squad but average half back options. Steenson and Simmonds are both good, solid all rounders but they aren't likely to break into international rugby, they are club level players. Similar story at 9 really with White not moving the side on in the way Chiefs will have hoped. The other 9s are academy products in their early twenties and who haven't come close to their peak yet.

the same argument would be had for chiefs to say they can use thier pack to lay the platform to give them the field position to then lunch wave after wave of foward play. The English Prem is far more physical than the Pro 14 and I think that Exeter would do to Glasgow what Sarries did this year and jsut blow them off the pitch.

The Thistle Rugby Podcast are reporting flanker Kwagga Smith to Edinburgh - I'm not sure it's entirely accurate as I think they're mixing him up with the under 20s guy called Kwagga who I think is aligned to Edinburgh.

Kwagga Smith is a top player but not sure we need another expensive established back row!

Well the pool stages from a couple of years ago suggest there's not much between Glasgow and Exeter. Both teams won their home games: Exeter by 9 in a game Glasgow were well in going into the last 5 minutes, Glasgow by 7 - with a BP and two wonderful end-to-end tries - in the final group game when they were already out (Exeter could have progressed with a BP win). Certainly I don't think Exeter are in the same league as the other top seeds, and would be disappointed if Glasgow lost to them at home.

I don't know how Glasgow will get on with the World Cup taking so many of our players. Exeter will lose fewer players as will the other teams.

Either way it is going to be a tough ask. Scheduling may be key. La Rochelle away is a tough game if early on and may be considerably easier in the last two rounds.

Schedule and how far Scotland go will be a fair determinant of Glasgow's season. If Scotland make a quarter final (or even a semi-final), Glasgow will underperform expectations.

Are they delaying the start of the comp till after the world cup?

In the past the league season has started later and obviously there's no Autumn tests so you don't lose 3 or 4 games for that. The final is beginning of November so I can't imagine there will be Champions CUp games scheduled until at least mid-November.

The dates have been announced (not fixtures just dates), comp starts 15th Nov. Think this is on the EPC site

So basically for any European based player whose nations makes it to the final or 3rd/4th playoff, their first club game will probably be the Champions Cup!

Probably not something we have to worry ourselves about as a nation...

RDW wrote:So basically for any European based player whose nations makes it to the final or 3rd/4th playoff, their first club game will probably be the Champions Cup!

Probably not something we have to worry ourselves about as a nation...

If we got to the final we'd honestly not give a rats about the euro cup and wil lhappily send the young team out and give the capped boys a few weeks off

tigertattie wrote:

RDW wrote:So basically for any European based player whose nations makes it to the final or 3rd/4th playoff, their first club game will probably be the Champions Cup!

Probably not something we have to worry ourselves about as a nation...

If we got to the final we'd honestly not give a rats about the euro cup and wil lhappily send the young team out and give the capped boys a few weeks off

True!

Yeah, if by some miracle Scotland make the WC final I can't say I'd be too fussed about Glasgow having to rest a few internationals in the Euro comp a fortnight later...

Fair!

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Yeah, if by some miracle Scotland make the WC final I can't say I'd be too fussed about Glasgow having to rest a few internationals in the Euro comp a fortnight later...

If we got the WC final I'd be happy if the players all did a Goode and went on a bender till christmas.

They'd need to get back to training to win the 6Ns though.

But if we won the World Cup then I'd give them the rest of the season off and if any wanted to retire on a high, I'd not hold it against them!

SHC has signed for Racing to provide world cup cover.

Will be a great experience for him but I'm sure he'll be looking for a long term deal sometime soon!

Imagine if he forms a great pairing with dancer.

With price and Horne very similar players, Sam HC could be the alternative 9 when Frodo hangs up his boots

Tiger, if Sam the Spaniard forms a great partnership with Dancer at Racing during the World Cup then who would be playing 10 for Scotland in Japan?

Obviously our trump card, Meatball.

Our Wilkinson-esque drop goal hero in a wee roond package. He also plays prop if required.

Worcester are better than racing anyway.

Am surprised about the Spaniard - being neither as old, expensive or overrated enough to play for a big French club. Perhaps he can start working on his attitude problem when he's over there. 

I would have moved just for the women in Paris. They should love him over there with hair that good. Just like Jim's but a bit less well conditioned.

So the Kwagga Smith rumour is now getting more traction with the SA press saying it's a done deal unless he gets picked in the springbok squad.

Edinburgh are certainly investing to make a good start to the season!

Sounds like it is s short term deal to cover the WC period. That would make a lot more sense.

Good deal for Edinburgh if it happens

Edinburgh signing coming up

One of the touted SHs or Kwagga Smith on a loan?

Kwagga Smith has been picked in the initial SA squad for the rugby championship

Spanner in the works perhaps?

Given that it's broken in the press it might be Smith - clubs usually do their own announcement once the rumour is out.

Another Fijian sevens player - Mesulame Kunavula. Back-five player in 15's, apparently.

We're certainly not short on back row players.

I'm sure he'll be a bit of a development signing and it will take at least a season for him to bed in - look what happened with Mata. He's a big lad though and certainly loves an offload!

I'm hoping the introduction of these Fijians means we're actually going to try and play attacking rugby occasionally and not just rumble it up in the forwards.

Sigh

The players picked week in week out moan about the congested season

The players not picked week in week out moan about the lack of opportunity

The fans moan that there’s no rugby on over the summer

The solution is to have a 12 month season where players book in annual leave like I need to do at my work. That way they can get rests through the year when they see fit. The non selected players then get selected for cover and I get to watch and talk about rugby over the summer when there is hee haw else to do!

Problem solved

Tramptastic wrote:Kwagga Smith has been picked in the initial SA squad for the rugby championship

Spanner in the works perhaps?

Hopefully not because the guy is a beast and very similar to Hamish Watson in a number of ways.

Hope that Cockers is not just focussing on the pack, although I suppose that's where we'll lose most of the players at the World Cup.

Aye I think our backs will only lose one of Graham or Kinghorn - I can't see both being picked other than through injury. Same for Pyrgos - our world cup is in trouble if he is to be relied upon!

Glasgow have signed a Fijian hooker on a 2 year deal.

RDW wrote:Glasgow have signed a Fijian hooker on a 2 year deal.

Our track record with Weegian Fijians is pretty good so here's hoping. Love these 'world cup filler' trades.

Surely Fiji Weegie is better?

Worst kept secret in Scottish Rugby confirmed, Ross Ford calls it a day as a professional player. He is going to take a role in the Borders academy, focusing on S&C, something you would imagine he would be quite good at!

While never really becoming an all time great, he ended up as our record cap holder and always put in a great shift for club and country.

Just as the back row moved away from him and his skill set as a young man, forcing him to become a hooker to progress, so it seems did the front row, with a new breed of hookers who also played as if they were open side wing forwards again leaving him a little bit behind.

Certainly a guy who maximise his talents and made the most of his career though. Everyone said he was the model pro, I doubt he was one of the Edinburgh who used to drive from the changing room to the training pitch!

Wishing him all the best in retirement and in his new role.

I thought he'd already retired!

He's certainly universally acknowledge in the rugby fraternity to be a model professional and top bloke. He's certainly had his limitations as a player over the years but also was one of the top NH hookers for a period of time, and well earned his place on the 2009 Lions tour.

As long as he's not coaching hooking in scrums or throwing in lineouts the future of the next generation will be safe! It's amazing how many jobs seem to be created by the SRU, particulary in the academies. I can't imagine an academy S&C coach will be earning much.

Edinburgh have continued to strengthen their squad ahead of next season with the signing of South African scrum-half, Nic Groom.

Groom, 29, joins from Super Rugby side Lions and brings a wealth of experience having amassed over 100 appearances for both the Stormers and Northampton Saints in recent seasons.

The scrum-half was a key man in the 2019 Lions Super Rugby squad that narrowly missed out on reaching the knockout stages of the competition, appearing in 13 out of 16 conference fixtures.

On joining the club, Groom said: “I'm really excited to link-up with Edinburgh. I've been keeping an eye on their results from South Africa and it’s definitely a club on the rise. I can’t wait to play my role in the seasons to come.

“My time at the Lions has been awesome. I've had the chance to work with fantastic coaches alongside some great players and I'm hugely grateful for the opportunity they gave me to play for them.

“From what I’ve heard, Edinburgh is a great place to live and play your rugby. My family can't wait for the adventure that lies ahead.”


Head Coach Richard Cockerill, added: “Nic is a really intelligent player who has consistently been a standout performer during his time in Super Rugby and the English Premiership.

“That experience in the number nine jersey is obviously key, but Nic’s ability to snipe and create opportunities in and around the fringes brings a different dynamic to our squad, while his addition clearly creates competition for places.

“We’ve been looking at Nic for a while now, so it’s great to finally welcome him to Edinburgh. We’re really hopeful that he can make a strong impact in the seasons to come.”

Born in King William’s Town, SA, Groom attended the University of Cape Town where he lifted the Varsity Cup in 2011.

A double Currie Cup winner with Western Province in 2012 and 2014 – for whom he scored 50 points in 69 appearances - the scrum-half broke into the Stormers’ Super Rugby side in 2014, starting 12 out of 16 games for the Cape Town club.

Groom continued to feature for the Stormers as the Newlands outfit recorded back-to-back third place conference finishes in 2015 and 2016 before joining English Premiership side Northampton Saints at the beginning of the 2016/17 season.

Groom became a regular feature in the Saints' starting XV and was instrumental in them securing Heineken Champions Cup rugby for the 2017/18 season, appearing in both European play-off games that saw the English side defeat Connacht and Stade Francais to secure their spot in the competition for the following season.

The 5ft 8in playmaker returned to his native South Africa in 2018 – joining the Lions - and featured in eight games as the Johannesburg club reached the Super Rugby final for the third straight season only to fall short against the Crusaders 37-18.

Groom has been capped by South Africa ‘A’, while the scum-half featured for the Barbarians as they defeated Samoa 27-24 at London’s Olympic Stadium in August 2015.

I'm really pleased with that signing - I can understand what Biggee is saying about needing a young tyro 9 who can be a game breaker, but I don't think we can complain about a significantly experienced player who is a regular Super Rugby performer so the right pedigree. 29 is far from past it and he should be in his peak for the length of his contract.

I hope he enjoys box kicking...

I sm sure his box kicking skills were an essential part of his application video!

Seems a solid signing, just hope he kicks on a bit better than likes of Hickey who has work to do still. If anything it is good for Pyrgos, he'll need to raise his game with the added competition.

I’m pretty underwhelmed by this signing. It might be because it’s the 2nd worst secret in Scottish rugby (behind Ford retiring, like RDW I thought that was already announced), it’s been known about for months.

Also I’ve watched his highlights video and it’s not particularly exciting.

It’ll be nice to have some competition for Pyrgos, and I’m sure he’s better than Kennedy & Fowles, but it’s hard to get that excited by this signing. That might also just be because we know he’ll be asked to box kick endlessly so really it makes little difference who’s playing 9 for us.

RDW wrote:Head Coach Richard Cockerill, added: “Nic is a really intelligent player who has consistently been a standout performer during his time in Super Rugby and the English Premiership.

“That experience in the number nine jersey is obviously key, but Nic’s ability to snipe and create opportunities in and around the fringes brings a different dynamic to our squad, while his addition clearly creates competition for places.

The fact that Cockers actually bothered to acknowledge a players ability to snipe around the fringes has to be cause for some optimism, of course he could have immediately walked out the room laughing at his own joke on that front.