Scotland WC Chat

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FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am

NeilyBroon wrote:You never know. NZ could catch the choking bug this year like in years gone past. By the sounds of it they've plateaued (By their standards, mind) so if there's any year to beat them, this is the one. SA would just bully us off the park like Leinster did to Glasgow. Neither is a particularly pleasant prospect for a QF but I actually think if there's a chance, it'd be more against NZ than SA due to their respective styles (mad as that sounds). We could yet pull off a win like France did in 2007

Steady on, even getting to the quarter finals won't be easy.

Ireland first up then a likely decider against a fired up Japan with a massive crowd behind them.

I am not even thinking any further ahead than that!

take it with a pinch of salt but I do not fear SA in any shape or form. They are not the imposing side they once were and theres been that many changes to thier game that they still dont know what their best team is.

If you asked me who I'd want to play in a QF out of NZ, Wales, England, Oz and SA, it would be SA each and every time.

Townsend has said that those who played right to the end of the season won't be involved in the opening game, giving the new players a chance to stake an early claim. I'm assuming that means the Glasgow, Exeter, Sarries players and Laidlaw won't be considered for the first game as starters at least.

Could see a team something like:

1 Dell
2 McInally
3 Nel
4 Gilchrist
5 Toolis
6 Barclay
7 Watson
8 Thomson

9 Pyrgos
10 Russell
11 Mcguigan
12 Taylor
13 Hutchison
14 Harris
15 Graham

Subs - Reid, Turner, Berghan, Cummings, Bradbury, Horne, Hastings, Grigg

Shows how difficult a job he'll have in giving players gametime as he would need to pick near an entirely new 23 for the second game to give everyone a run around, and even then the subs on the bench will only get 20-30 minutes.

I'm assuming the squad will be picked after the 2nd warmup game like previous world cups, leaving the final two games for the actual world cup squad.

In terms of SH at Edinburgh, unless it’s some insanely well organised set of whispers, that the club have organised to throw us off the scent, then Nic Groom is coming over at the end of the SH season.

That would leave us with Pyrgos, who is unlikely to ever realistically threaten the WC squad, Shiel and Groom.  Which is probably enough for the season.  On that basis I can’t see Christie coming to Edinburgh.

Glasgow have Price, Horne and Frisby, and in some top quality contradicting myself from only a few posts earlier, it actually would make more sense for Christie to join the weege.  Here’s my working;

- RWC: During the World Cup, Glasgow are likely (guaranteed) to lose Price and Jnr Horne, leaving them with only Frisby and whatever academy lad they can find lying around.  For the once and future…blah blah….that’s probably not enough.  If Frisby takes a knock then they are going to be promoting the academy lads far earlier than probably planned or making come hither eyes at Kennedy.
- Post RWC rest period: See above
- 6 nations: See above
- SRU mandated rest periods: If you’re not seeing where I am going with this by now, then I have some lovely sea front property I’d love to sell you.

If he is coming over, then Glasgow is likely to be his port of call.  Of course, the wee badge could just be down to him looking for leverage at contract renewal time and is subtly hinting that if Canes don’t give him a decent deal he’ll look to ply his trade in the northern hemisphere.

Changing topic, someone posted about Scott earlier, from what I can see, whilst he’s rarely getting the ball to run with (other than into the opposition player a foot in front of him) he’s bulked up a lot.  During his time injured he said he put on a lot of muscle (I can’t remember exactly how much but it was a lot), which unsurprisingly has slowed him down and removed the wee step he used to have.  He claims it’s not, but having watched him before he left Edinburgh and since he’s come back, he’s a lot bigger and a fair bit slower.  Which if his role is a crash ball centre then grand, but if he’s looking to get round players, then he hasn’t a hope.

Would Christie really want to come to a team that already has 2 international 9s? I know what you're saying about WC and 6N cover but it would only really be short term gain for him - next season he would probably find gametime limited.

I agree with you on Scott - hopefully a full pre-season will get him in better shape. He is definitely too big and has lost his edge in terms of step and pace. The modern game now doesn't need a one dimensional bruiser so hopefully he (and Cockers) sees that and addresses it in Pre-season.

Glasgow signed the young SH Jamie Dobie back in April/May didn't they? I presume that was partly for WC cover purposes. This season they managed the other periods Horne and Price were away OK, though I take the point that with Laidlaw possibly being phased out post-WC they'll both be away perhaps more often.

If he’s clever about it, he’d come over on a 1-2 year deal, get himself in the shop window of teams over here and move on a lucrative contract to be first choice at another team.

From what I understand he’s not first choice at the Canes, plus if he comes in whilst Price and Horne Jnr at away at he RWC and plays out his skin then it would be hard for Rennie to totally drop him. I think he’d still get a decent amount of games (assuming he’s not total pony) and if he could get a couple of Int. caps to really show his ability then that would help him find a new club over here.

I’m not saying this plan is totally flawless, but out of Edinburgh & Glasgow (assuming those are his only choices, which is a big assumption) then Glasgow would make more sense.

Regarding Scott, he had a full preseason last time out didn’t he? I don’t think he was injured when he joined, so I’m not sure it’ll make much difference this season unfortunately. Also given Cockers seems to prefer not to really use the backs, having someone built like a forward who is technically a back, would seem to be ideal for him.

He did have a full pre-season and looked great in the early part of the season - he put in some big performances in the first two Euro games. He was then out injured from October to around March and that was when he put the beef on.

Think I said on this thread, not sure now, but I can see him going to the Weege to cover the World cup and 6Ns for Price and Horne Jnr being away and its a trial period with the SRU to see if they then want him to move to Edinburgh the following season. Could be he and Groom as main 9s at Edinburgh with Shiel the back up. Henners could be consigned to the scrap heap!

Fair, well fingers crossed he regains that wee bit of pace he had

Groom is no spring chicken, he won't be playing top class rugby to much longer. If he was to come to Edinburgh, it would be as an experienced old hand to fulfil the role that Frisbee has at Glasgow. He can step in and will play well but he is not someone they are going to build a team around.

Longer term as well, Glasgow are going to struggle to keep Horne junior and Price happy. Both will want to be the starting SH and also their market value will also be rising and there will be the question of whether we can afford both of them. If Dobie proves to be as good as everyone hopes he might be, he will rapidly move into the mix as well and as the cheaper option, will be the one to hang around a bit longer.

So there could be a decent case for Christie to be moving to either of the Scottish teams. It is hard to see how the Saltire displayed on social media does not have some meaning about it!

Groom is only 29 - hardly on retirement watch!

RDW wrote:Groom is only 29 - hardly on retirement watch!

Hardly a spring chicken either, nor a household name.

A good solid club player maybe, but not the answer to Edinburgh's issue by any stretch of the imagination.

Scotland will play s test against New Zealand in next summer's tour which is a great result. Wales will play two tests against them - hopefully we're up first as we're usually on our last legs by the 3rd test of a summer tour!

Can't see who else we're playing - Australia and maybe a Pacific island would be good.

BigGee wrote:

RDW wrote:Groom is only 29 - hardly on retirement watch!

Hardly a spring chicken either, nor a household name.

A good solid club player maybe, but not the answer to Edinburgh's issue by any stretch of the imagination.

Nic’s 29 and Pyrgos is going to be 30 next month, we’ve got the experienced SH slot well and truly covered.

I’d like to see Shiel step up, he looked so-so last year on the rare outings he got, but this probably needs to be his breakthrough season. Or at least he needs to play in more than 1-2 games

Edinburgh really need a young gun SH, with a fast pass and the ability to break and to run the kind of support lines that Hornito and Price do week in week out for Glasgow.

The jury is out on Sheil, partly because we did not really see a lot of him until Cockers finally decided to bin Kennedy and the other one (whose name I can't even seem to remember!)

He showed a few glimpses but also looked off the pace in a few games. He does need to step up, you can only be the coming thing for so long. Christie certainly would add to their options next season if he was to come.

So we're all in agreement

Horne needs to move to Edinburgh and Pygos can go back to the Weedge!

In your dreams Tattie!

I honestly dont think replacing/finding a scrum half with a quick pass is going to solve our problems.

Pyrgos is a good passer of the ball and can Marshall his forwards well and play the game at pace, we've all seen him do it for Glasgow.

Doesn't matter if we bring in Genia or Aaron Smith, Edinburghs tactics would be the same - play slow slow slow slow slow slow box kicks in our half, inject a modicum of pace only in the opposition's 22.

Tramptastic wrote:I honestly dont think replacing/finding a scrum half with a quick pass is going to solve our problems.

Pyrgos is a good passer of the ball and can Marshall his forwards well and play the game at pace, we've all seen him do it for Glasgow.

Doesn't matter if we bring in Genia or Aaron Smith, Edinburghs tactics would be the same - play slow slow slow slow slow slow box kicks in our half, inject a modicum of pace only in the opposition's 22.

Yeah you are pretty much spot on.

When do we start to draw up the "cockers out" placards

Huge amount to do for the under 20s losing 36-15 to Fiji at halftime. Whenever they get s half break they score - they have some supreme athletes but we're also making life easy for them. They scored straight from our restart (from a try) right on halftime - they've scored 3 tries in less than 10 minutes before halftime.

Looks like we're getting relegated.

The comeback's on - 34-45 with 10 to play!

Cancel that - we miss a kick penalty to touch (sound familiar?) And Fiji romp through our defence and score.

It's men against boys whenever Fiji attack.

And they score another try with ease after our Squint lineout. Most of Fiji's tries have been from first phase ball

We're humped 34-59 and have been relegated. Having lost all our games you can't see why didn't deserve it!

This is the first time we've been relegated and the first tier 1 nation since 2012, and that was Italy. It's ironic this has happened at a point where our academy is more established than ever - it shows that we have to work so hard just to compete never mind make any strides.

Think it's fair to say we won't be seeing many of these players for a while at pro level!

Sounds like we got exactly what we deserved

The Academies are a superficial fix. They put the gloss on our top players. The issue with rugby in Scotland is that the top players are too focused in a few schools and regions. Take hooker for example, at one stage in the six nations all of our hookers came from Edinburgh private schools. If we are to reach the top we need to dramatically widen our playing pool. Fortunately the upturn in the senior team’s form and its apparent popularity will surely translate into greater participation across the country.

I think the private school thing is a tough one, the reason so many players come from them is because they actively recruit good young players and offer them scholarships etc. so it makes sense that our academies and youth sides are going to be full of players who have played or do play for private schools. State run schools can’t really do this, so as soon as they get a player of quality the private school will swoop in.

There’s no way to fix this, and from a player point of view it makes sense as they’ll get far better coaching at a private school than they would at a state school.

If you look at the Fagersons they went to Dundee high school until Strathallan came knocking and understandably they moved to a better school with better coaching. This is a similar situation across the board with young players in Scotland.

The issue is that the net is too small.

At the last player intake there were something like 300 boys put forward but only 90 of these boys were actviely looked at during the process.

the other 210 boys would have been better jsut sending in a highlight tape for it to sit on shalf somewhere.

The set up is still geared towards a select few getting the prefferential treatmenat because they know someone who knows someone.

The only way round this I can see is to have almost like a blind audition process. It doesnt matter who you are, yo uare given a number and your speed is tested, your pass accuracy is tested, your tackle ability is tested. etc. etc and then the numbers with the best stats are put forward for a final review.

Looking at the current crop of U20s, it looks like we're lacking in the tackling department. I know for years we were obsessed with size and moved away from this to focus on skills, but tackling is one of these so called skills and all too often it seems to be overlooked.

We need more ginger tackle monsters

The problem is this extends beyond rugby - it is a societal / government issues surrounding funding for state schools and particularly sport. The SRU do what they can with development officers and hosting training camps with schools but it still relies on teachers volunteering their own time (with no head teacher support) to coach school teams. We need government funding and active change in policy to get kids in state schools more active, and part of that is funding extra curricular activities.

For example my local rugby club part funds a rugby development officer to work with the school - rugby clubs are having to fund these things themselves!!

As has been said the private schools actually do a good job in developing talent and without them we'd be screwed - the issue isn't the supposed 'elitest' nature of the sport in Scotland, it is the fact there is so little funding outside of private schools. That's not private schools' fault (and I went to a state school!).

Surely to goodness the teachers who coach in the evening or weekends get some form of overtime or flexitime allowance???

If not then as a country we should hang our heads in shame that we're not putting a bit of money into what can only be seen a measure against the government labelled obesity epidemic that is gripping the country!

Nope - they don't get anything.

RDW wrote:The problem is this extends beyond rugby - it is a societal / government issues surrounding funding for state schools and particularly sport. The SRU do what they can with development officers and hosting training camps with schools but it still relies on teachers volunteering their own time (with no head teacher support) to coach school teams. We need government funding and active change in policy to get kids in state schools more active, and part of that is funding extra curricular activities.

For example my local rugby club part funds a rugby development officer to work with the school - rugby clubs are having to fund these things themselves!!

As has been said the private schools actually do a good job in developing talent and without them we'd be screwed - the issue isn't the supposed 'elitest' nature of the sport in Scotland, it is the fact there is so little funding outside of private schools. That's not private schools' fault (and I went to a state school!).

We have the same issue with our club (Lismore), we have a brilliant rugby development officer which we part fund and as a result or club hemorrhages money on an annual basis but because of the work thats done, the U15s/U16s/U18s team that comes together from the state schools, in conjunction with our club regularly competes in the cup finals against the public schools and often as not wins.

These are state school kids from some of the more deprived areas in edinburgh (liberton, gilmerton, niddry etc) that have been given the opportunity to play rugby at a high level and do so with aplomb. They will often get praise and kind words from local politicians but zero funding so as a result half of the funding comes from our club

As players we have no problem with this as we can see the good work it does for the kids in the area but it means our club is constantly on the brink of collapse which is a serious level of stress for all the volunteers.

Would be nice for some proper government investment in a successful sporting story.

Aye it's tough at that level Tramptastic, and it's great Lismore are doing what they're doing.

123456789. wrote:The Academies are a superficial fix. They put the gloss on our top players. The issue with rugby in Scotland is that the top players are too focused in a few schools and regions. Take hooker for example, at one stage in the six nations all of our hookers came from Edinburgh private schools. If we are to reach the top we need to dramatically widen our playing pool. Fortunately the upturn in the senior team’s form and its apparent popularity will surely translate into greater participation across the country.

Yes I think you're very right numbers, I was home for a bit last week (North of Inverness) and my dad and I were saying how great it was to see the national side training in Inverness/Aviemore with northern/north east rugby clubs. Both of us agreed it had been a long time since international players had been up that way and Scottish Rugby still seems to be fixated in the traditional rugby playing areas of the country. It would be great (if feasible) to have a test match in Inverness one Autumn, or Aberdeen again. ICTFC have a good stadium that would suit a test match fine.

It would be nice Bsando but with less than 8K of a capacity it would be financially crazy to host a game there.

The SRU use the money made from the international game to fund the two pro teams along with the rest of rugby in the country.

They'd take too muh of a hit by having the game up there. It's the same reason that they rarely go to Pitoddrie with 22k seats.

Given that we sell out pretty much all our games now there's no way the SRU will take the financial hit to miss out on 40k extra tickets at Murrayfield, plus the additional cost of renting a football stadium. it made sense when we struggled to get 20k for games against the likes of Fiji and Tonga but that doesn't happen anymore.

Hopefully they send some under 20s games up there and if we had an A team still we could have played games in the north.

Ah fair play, that would be a big hit financially! An U20's test match would be a good idea for sure, especially for younger players who may come to watch.

U20s games would be the way to go.

They play a lot of these down in Gala so absolutely no reason not to send a few to Inverness or anywhere else for that matter.

Shamefully Inverness is somewhere I've never been.

tigertattie wrote:U20s games would be the way to go.

They play a lot of these down in Gala so absolutely no reason not to send a few to Inverness or anywhere else for that matter.  

Shamefully Inverness is somewhere I've never been.

Inverness is a proper nice wee city, city centre is a good laugh at the weekend and the pubs are open till 5am

I was up there watching the England game this year (wanted to get as far away from London as possible) - there's an incredible number of pubs there! The pub/population ratio must be the highest in the UK.

RDW wrote:I was up there watching the England game this year (wanted to get as far away from London as possible) - there's an incredible number of pubs there! The pub/population ratio must be the highest in the UK.

I was asking the lass behind the bar in foxy's why they were open to 5am at the weekends (this is at 11pm on a friday and the place is absolutely heaving) and she suggested its because there's less psychos in inverness in comparison to the central belt, so they get way less hassle over the course of a night

I can see that being true tbf

There were 3 English blokes in the pub we were watching it (that was our third game of the day in that pub - we were pretty pished).

They were going crazy all first half and giving it large at halftime. Weren't so cocky on 80 minutes!

I still get a curious mix of elation and depression thinking about that match

It's like seeing the sheer relief from the england players after they scored that last try was wonderful to see because you remember they were 33-7 up at half time. But then you remember it came at the expense of an unlikely Scotland win after being 33-7 down at half time. Too many emotions.

Love how we keep reverting back to the emotional rollercoaster that game was. I’m certainly still not over it.

It’s not a long train or flight to Inverness depending on where you are coming from so I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. And yes, a lot of pubs to visit. I’d recommend the Black Isle Bar as a good place to start and be sure to check out the market bar. Small but you’ll meet some interesting locals.

Manu Samoa squad for the 2019 Pacific Nations Cup:

Forwards: Elia Elia (Harlequins), Seilala Lam (Perpignan), Motu Matu’u (London Irish), Ray Niuia (Highlanders), Paul Alo-Emile (Stade Francais), James Lay (Bristol Bears), Jordan Lay (Bristol Bears), Logovi’i Mulipola (Leicester Tigers), Alofaaga Sao (Savai’i Vikings)*, Hisa Sasagi (Blues), Kane Le’aupepe (Hurricanes), Filo Paulo (unattached), Senio Toleafoa (Nevers)*, Chris Vui (Bristol Bears), Afa Amosa (Bordeaux)*, Piula Fa’asalele (Perpignan), Jack Lam (unattached), Faifili Levave (unattached), Tofatuimoana Solia (Southern Tornadoes)*, Henry Stowers (Western Force)*.

Backs: Pele Cowley (Ponsonby), Auvusa Faleali’i (Nevers), Dwayne Polotaivao (Doncaster), AJ Alatimu (Western Force), UJ Seuteni (Bordeaux)*, Kieron Fonotia (Scarlets), Ray Lee-Lo (Cardiff Blues), Alapati Leilua (Bristol Bears), Henry Taefu (Western Force), JJ Taulagi (Mont-de-Marsan), Ashee Tuala (Northampton Saints), Belgium Tuatagaloa (unattached)*, Johnny Vaili (Ana Chiefs)*.

Some pretty decent players in that squad. I'll be keeping an eye on how they get on in the Pacific Nations Cup

We all remember what happened in the last world cup - we certainly can't take them lightly.

Yep, they will always be tough at the RWC. Expecting them to be a tougher challenge than the last test at Murrayfield.

Unrelated to Scotland, but there's a young Scrum Half at the Western Force from my old High School in Perth WA who seems to be doing pretty well at the moment. Looks a future talent!

https://www.facebook.com/westernforce/videos/312864029597038/

When does Toonie start ti whittle down the squad? I take it this is after the warm up matches?

Most teams announce their world cup squad after the first 2 warmup games