Scotland WC Chat

by **RDW** Mon 18 Mar 2019 - 8:39

First topic message reminder :

FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps

World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am

by **RDW** Tue 9 Jul 2019 - 16:18

Thing is, the competition for places is number 8 - other than Barclay we've not had anyone who has put consistent performances at blindside since Jason White. Sure our other options can play at 6 if needed, but they're much more effective at number 8.

I think Barclay will be our first choice 6 and he'll go as captain. He should be in the best condition of his life after a full pre-season, assuming the injury hasn't left any long-term scars.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 9 Jul 2019 - 16:23

RDW wrote:Thing is, the competition for places is number 8 - other than Barclay we've not had anyone who has put consistent performances at blindside since Jason White. Sure our other options can play at 6 if needed, but they're much more effective at number 8.

I think Barclay will be our first choice 6 and he'll go as captain. He should be in the best condition of his life after a full pre-season, assuming the injury hasn't left any long-term scars.

Brown was pretty consistent, the first of the B's to make captaincy!

So in all, Beattie has been the biggest letdown

by EWT Spoons Tue 9 Jul 2019 - 16:25

I'd probably agree with you, but I really hope Ritchie is still in the mix to go. He's equally good at 6 as he is at 7 and was arguably our best (or thereabouts) players at the last 6n.

by **RDW** Tue 9 Jul 2019 - 16:33

I highly rate Ritchie and think he'll be selected for his versatility, however I think at the highest level he's better suited for 7. Saying that, if we have a big bruiser at 8 like Bradbury it could work - it's all about balance.

He could find himself as Mr versatile who ends up not actually getting much gametime at the WC because he's sitting on the bench.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 9 Jul 2019 - 16:36

EWT Spoons wrote:I'd probably agree with you, but I really hope Ritchie is still in the mix to go. He's equally good at 6 as he is at 7 and was arguably our best (or thereabouts) players at the last 6n.

That's a good shout. Will be interesting to see what balance Toonie goes with. Watson is basically impossible to exclude at the moment but there could be a versatility spot for Ritchie as we'd only have Barclay covering 7, who isn't anywhere near as fast as he used to be and if he gets injured we'd be up the creek. If Skinner goes as a second row that potentially opens that up a bit seeing as he already covers 6.

3 months is too long to wait!

by bsando Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 8:44

NeilyBroon wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:I think Rambo might be the biggest thorn in Barclay's side regarding captaincy. Ideally we want our captain to play/start in every game and as things stand Rambo is a nailed on starter.

I would argue that on form Barclay is the better captain of the two as he's a bit more wily in his conversations with the ref and some of the best rugby I've seen from the current squad has been when he's captained.

This being said McInally lead the charge into the second half against England, I think if he learns the ref chat a bit better then he will make a fine captain.

Barclay is as close as we'll ever have to a Kieran Read or Richie McCaw. I agree his communication is very good, as is Laidlaw's. It's a nice place to be with not 1 but 3 people ready to step up to captaincy if needed in different positions.

by **RDW** Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 8:51

Previous Laidlaw has had good communication, but his recent captaincy of Scotland involved bickering with the ref and losing his cool, which probably played a big part in him losing it!

by **RDW** Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 10:29

https://shop.scottishrugby.org/gb/scottish-rugby/training/scotland-rugby-m19-6nt-summer-poly-dry-gym-t-shirt-navy-sr.html#

I'm quite liking the new training range. Shame the BT logo is so prominent but I can live with it.

What annoys me is the random blob of tartan on the back!

by **NeilyBroon** Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 10:47

To be fair, the BT logo looks considerably better than the previous iteration of random purple blobs and actually fits more with the kit colours.

Though the tartan patch on the back does look a bit like fat b**tards sumo jock strap in its positioning

by **RDW** Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 10:48

Yeah I'm not sure why you need a tartan landing strip leading down to your butt crack.

ON the sponsors logo, Glasgow's SP Energy Networks green box a prime example of one that doesn't fit with the strip!

by **George Carlin** Wed 10 Jul 2019 - 18:00

The new Glasgow training top in Hearing Aid Beige is officially one of the most depressing things I've seen since I checked my waist size last week. Like the Scotland stuff although a tartan landing strip is not really my idea of a flattering finish.

by tigertattie Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 10:06

I'm still wondering when the SRU will ask Macron to make stips in sizes suitable for rugby players.

Surely I'm not the only former player out there with a chest sixze larger than 48-50 inches.

And for the benefit of Jimbo before he starts talking about scout marquees, my waist remains thinner than my chest size!

by jimbopip Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 12:45

tigertattie wrote:I'm still wondering when the SRU will ask Macron to make stips in sizes suitable for rugby players.

Surely I'm not the only former player out there with a chest sixze larger than 48-50 inches.

And for the benefit of Jimbo before he starts talking about scout marquees, my waist remains thinner than my chest size!

Moobs will do that for you tigertattie.

Although, I have just returned from three weeks in The Land Of The All You Can Eat Buffet and I'm wondering where I can purchase my new wardrobe in Chunk Jacobson sizes. For the shorter but wider gentleman, obviously.

by highland_scot Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 16:16

George Carlin wrote:The new Glasgow training top in Hearing Aid Beige is officially one of the most depressing things I've seen since I checked my waist size last week. Like the Scotland stuff although a tartan landing strip is not really my idea of a flattering finish.

Doesn't Miss Scotland have one of them?

by **NeilyBroon** Thu 11 Jul 2019 - 17:44

highland_scot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:The new Glasgow training top in Hearing Aid Beige is officially one of the most depressing things I've seen since I checked my waist size last week. Like the Scotland stuff although a tartan landing strip is not really my idea of a flattering finish.

Doesn't Miss Scotland have one of them?

Aye, word is it's dip dyed in Royal Stewart

by tigertattie Fri 12 Jul 2019 - 13:16

busy busy busy at work, quite a keek week in all really

So I'm now daydreaming of Scotland lifting the world cup in 112 days time.

by jimbopip Sat 13 Jul 2019 - 11:13

tigertattie, if you go on to that YouTube thingy.... Squidge Rugby is an excellent site for cheering you up. There is a clip entitled, "Just how good are Scotland?".

He raises a few interesting points; successful teams have coaches who have been in place for a full WC cycle (four years minimum), Scotland are possibly the best attacking team on the planet, Dancer is the best passing 10 in the world, we have beaten EVERY tier one nation bar the Blackness and Boks recently, conversely we have also lost to everyone.

The most interesting point he raises is that since it is almost 100% guaranteed that Toonie will be in post through to the next WC then , in effect, this one is just a learning experience for him. Yes, he'll want to win every match but really he should have the longer view and be looking at learning lessons for the next tournament. One early indicator for me would be the inclusion of youngsters in the final squad, Bradbury, Ritchie, Fagerson and Hutchinson, rather than older heads.

Another really interesting point is that perhaps the team define themselves in a one dimensional way. If you look at Wales they are Gatlandball all day every day. But are Scotland too focussed on being the best attacking team on the planet? If Ireland look at their pool game with us and think, "We'll never beat them by playing fast, open rugby." Then they'll play ugly, grinding, batter out a result rugby. And they'll play it just as well as the other stuff. Are we so focussed on being the best attacking side that we can't win ugly?

Finally, a thought all of my own.

A link from the SRU popped up on my Facebook page; it had a photie from a match which contained Jamie Ritchie, Maggie, Not A Show Pony and Dancer. Four genuinely exciting players. All of whom have made our hearts beat a little faster when they have donned their national jersey. And yet...apart from Dancer three of them could easily NOT be eating teppanyaki prawns and steamed rice this summer. How ridiculous is that?

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 9:45

Not a show pony is pretty much guaranteed a spot, unless you want two uncapped 13s! But yeah the talent really is there. Great video by the way, gave me a good laugh and was surprisingly informative!

For me what would be an attainable target for Scotland going forward is consistency. The biggest problem we've had over the last decades is the psychology of the team. Take Australia 2015. Amazing comeback and a hair's width from a semi final. All we needed to do was catch at the front then keep the ball. We didn't, Aus penalty (rightly or wrongly) and that lost us the game. Teams we should have beaten (France away springs to mind) we just don't put away because the players seem to feel like they shouldn't be winning. If this tournament we can make it through to the quarters comfortably then I'd say that's real progress.

We should be able to beat Ireland, and having them first up is great as Ireland never seem to have particularly fast starts. Will our psychological issues outweigh theirs though? Probably. Basically we want them to be the ones sweating bullets over facing a hyped up Japan or dangerous Samoa. Neutral ground is probably our best shot against Ireland. Lots of irish support still travels to murrayfield so it almost negates home advantage but it won't be the same in Jap, in fact i get the impression that many of the Japanese have Scotland as a second team, though that's mainly a hunch.

We have to beat Samoa convincingly, and tighten our defence. Yes they're always a threat but if we're clinical they can easily be put to bed, just maintain discipline and it should be fine. Japan I'm most worried about, especially after last years game against the USA in the summer. Similar conditions, excited home crowd, the Japan coaching squad will be showing the team that game on loop over the 2 week break they get prior to the game. Scotland have to come out of the blocks fast in that game and put it to bed in the first half or at least have a cushion they can build on.

All in all, we have plenty to be optimistic about and have a squad that could line up against the best and could beat anyone. We just need the winning mentality to reach the next level, which is what has carried Wales so far as arguably they are not the best side but as Gatland said (which is annoyingly true) "we've forgotten how to lose".

Let's hope Toonie is reminding our players of how to win.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 9:56

jimbopip wrote:tigertattie, if you go on to that YouTube thingy.... Squidge Rugby is an excellent site for cheering you up. There is a clip entitled, "Just how good are Scotland?".

He raises a few interesting points; successful teams have coaches who have been in place for a full WC cycle (four years minimum), Scotland are possibly the best attacking team on the planet, Dancer is the best passing 10 in the world, we have beaten EVERY tier one nation bar the Blackness and Boks recently, conversely we have also lost to everyone.

The most interesting point he raises is that since it is almost 100% guaranteed that Toonie will be in post through to the next WC then , in effect, this one is just a learning experience for him. Yes, he'll want to win every match but really he should have the longer view and be looking at learning lessons for the next tournament. One early indicator for me would be the inclusion of youngsters in the final squad, Bradbury, Ritchie, Fagerson and Hutchinson, rather than older heads.

Another really interesting point is that perhaps the team define themselves in a one dimensional way. If you look at Wales they are Gatlandball all day every day. But are Scotland too focussed on being the best attacking team on the planet? If Ireland look at their pool game with us and think, "We'll never beat them by playing fast, open rugby." Then they'll play ugly, grinding, batter out a result rugby. And they'll play it just as well as the other stuff. Are we so focussed on being the best attacking side that we can't win ugly?

Finally, a thought all of my own.

A link from the SRU popped up on my Facebook page; it had a photie from a match which contained Jamie Ritchie, Maggie, Not A Show Pony and Dancer. Four genuinely exciting players. All of whom have made our hearts beat a little faster when they have donned their national jersey. And yet...apart from Dancer three of them could easily NOT be eating teppanyaki prawns and steamed rice this summer. How ridiculous is that?

That's probably the most informative post you've ever made. You should go on holiday more often!

by **George Carlin** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 11:00

highland_scot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:The new Glasgow training top in Hearing Aid Beige is officially one of the most depressing things I've seen since I checked my waist size last week. Like the Scotland stuff although a tartan landing strip is not really my idea of a flattering finish.

Doesn't Miss Scotland have one of them?

You'd have to ask Finn Russell.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 11:10

George Carlin wrote:
highland_scot wrote:
George Carlin wrote:The new Glasgow training top in Hearing Aid Beige is officially one of the most depressing things I've seen since I checked my waist size last week. Like the Scotland stuff although a tartan landing strip is not really my idea of a flattering finish.

Doesn't Miss Scotland have one of them?
You'd have to ask Finn Russell.

Not any more - they split up a while ago!

by jimbopip Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 11:18

I agree Flounder. Hug

As Deputy High Heidyin In Chief surely can authorize a Jimbo By The Sea budget which will ensure higher quality posts which will draw in a greater readership and increase advertising revenue. It would be an investment. Pays for itself , really. Whistle

Neily, in terms of international form then Not A Pony should be first name on the team sheet. In terms of club form this season Seaman is miles ahead of the Pony. Probably Hutchinson too.

Is Not A Pony what McGeechan would refer to as a Test Match Animal? I think he is. Geech would say of Jerry Guscott that the bigger the occasion the better he played. Some players get overawed by the occasion and some revel in it. TMA's live for the big matches.

Realistically, I suspect Toonie has known three of his centres for some time now and has been searching for the back up thirteen.

Johnson and Furra Linee at 12, Pony at 13.Seem to have been his first choices. Grigg and Harris have been tried but have not really convinced.

Seaman has had a stunning second half of the season at Glasgow.

Hutchinson has had the sort of breakthrough season that could see him called angel

v.2.

A fully fit Spacey is the real joker in the pack.

Toonie has made a lot of noises about taking players who can cover other positions.

Furra Linee can cover 10. Although he is a much better 12.

Seaman can cover wing.

Spacey can play 12, 13, 15.

Hutchinson lacks experience but seems one for the future, especially once he has moved to the Home Of...you know whose home, and may be taken just for the experience so that he's better prepared for the next WC.

I can't begin to guess who the Tombola will spew out. Shocked

Grigg and Harris will miss out.

Furra, Seaman, Spacey and Hutchinson. Two will miss out. Crying or Very sad

Furra -Seaman.... have experience of playing together. Both have had good seasons. Both cover other positions.

Spacey-Hutch... have never played together; one hasn't played all year, the other has no international experience. chin

I know who I would pick ….but it will be down to the Tombola. So Grigg and Harris it will be then.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 11:21

jimbopip wrote:I agree Flounder.

As Deputy High Heidyin In Chief surely can authorize a Jimbo By The Sea budget which will ensure higher quality posts which will draw in a greater readership and increase advertising revenue. It would be an investment. Pays for itself , really.

Neily, in terms of international form then Not A Pony should be first name on the team sheet. In terms of club form this season Seaman is miles ahead of the Pony. Probably Hutchinson too.

Is Not A Pony what McGeechan would refer to as a Test Match Animal? I think he is. Geech would say of Jerry Guscott that the bigger the occasion the better he played. Some players get overawed by the occasion and some revel in it. TMA's live for the big matches.

Realistically, I suspect Toonie has known three of his centres for some time now and has been searching for the back up thirteen.

Johnson and Furra Linee at 12, Pony at 13.Seem to have been his first choices. Grigg and Harris have been tried but have not really convinced.

Seaman has had a stunning second half of the season at Glasgow.

Hutchinson has had the sort of breakthrough season that could see him called v.2.

A fully fit Spacey is the real joker in the pack.

Toonie has made a lot of noises about taking players who can cover other positions.

Furra Linee can cover 10. Although he is a much better 12.

Seaman can cover wing.

Spacey can play 12, 13, 15.

Hutchinson lacks experience but seems one for the future, especially once he has moved to the Home Of...you know whose home, and may be taken just for the experience so that he's better prepared for the next WC.

I can't begin to guess who the Tombola will spew out.

Grigg and Harris will miss out.

Furra, Seaman, Spacey and Hutchinson. Two will miss out.

Furra -Seaman.... have experience of playing together. Both have had good seasons.

Spacey-Hutch... have never played together; one hasn't played all year, the other has no international experience.

I know who I would pick ….but it will be down to the Tombola. So Grigg and Harris it will be then.

Seaman,

We'll be losing to Russia for the first time then!

by jimbopip Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 12:13

Actually Neily, we both know that there will be plenty of gainsayers on here, mainly Luvvie, who will chunter on about "Samoa...Horne...speedbump" as justification for leaving Furra and Grigg at home BUT I think by the Japan game we may well be forced to play a lot of second choice players. Either that or we play a second string against Russia and keep our first XV as fresh as possible for what may well be the decider against the hosts.

Furra-Grigg should be far too good for Russia and, equally, would be better than the Japanese midfield.

My own preference is

Johnson-Jones

then

Furra-Seaman. Maybe a bit of Weegie bias there

However, if Spacey is fit and convincing in the warm up games he is almost impossible to ignore.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 12:16

jimbopip wrote:Actually Neily, we both know that there will be plenty of gainsayers on here, mainly Luvvie, who will chunter on about "Samoa...Horne...speedbump" as justification for leaving Furra and Grigg at home BUT I think by the Japan game we may well be forced to play a lot of second choice players. Either that or we play a second string against Russia and keep our first XV as fresh as possible for what may well be the decider against the hosts.

Furra-Grigg should be far too good for Russia and, equally, would be better than the Japanese midfield.

My own preference is

Johnson-Jones

then

Furra-Seaman. Maybe a bit of Weegie bias there

However, if Spacey is fit and convincing in the warm up games he is almost impossible to ignore.

Aye, Furra and Grigg should be okay... it's Grigg Harris that would make me nauseous with fear!

Also, forget the Fiji loss and USA loss with our second string on recent summer tours at our peril, it doesn't take much!

by jimbopip Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 12:41

I agree totally, however...IF we beat Ireland and Samoa then the last two games would allow a certain amount of rotation. If we lose either of our first two them Japan becomes a must win.

Let's try listing the centres in order of preference.

12

Smiling Sam
Furra Linee
Russell/Haircut
Spacey (if fit and on form he'd be a lot nearer no1)
GC's Uncle Dougie
Harris

13

Not A Pony (international form)
Seaman
Grigg
Hutchinson
Not A Pony (club form)
Spacey (if fit and on form he'd be a lot nearer no1)
Schiz
Harris

Spacey-Seaman would be a solid choice for the Samoans.
Furra-Grigg could run riot against the sons of Nippon.

9.Aldi Price
10. Haircut
11. No Maits
12 Dancer
13. Spacey
14. Seaman
15. Hogg

Just might line up against the Oirish. You heard it here first.

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 13:36

jimbopip wrote:I agree totally, however...IF we beat Ireland and Samoa then the last two games would allow a certain amount of rotation. If we lose either of our first two them Japan becomes a must win.

Let's try listing the centres in order of preference.

12

Smiling Sam
Furra Linee
Russell/Haircut
Spacey (if fit and on form he'd be a lot nearer no1)
GC's Uncle Dougie
Harris

13

Not A Pony (international form)
Seaman
Grigg
Hutchinson
Not A Pony (club form)
Spacey (if fit and on form he'd be a lot nearer no1)
Schiz
Harris

Spacey-Seaman would be a solid choice for the Samoans.
Furra-Grigg could run riot against the sons of Nippon.

9.Aldi Price
10. Haircut
11. No Maits
12 Dancer
13. Spacey
14. Seaman
15. Hogg

Just might line up against the Oirish. You heard it here first.

I'd put Hutch ahead of Grigg and on par with Steyn - I think the summer games will possibly cement his place in the squad and I think he'll end up on the plane. Definitely a potential Bennett MKII (with hopefully less injuries).

The Haircut-Dancer axis has already proven a waste I feel, with the last outing being very forgettable. Would much rather see Furra play as the second playmaker as he plays at 12 normally whereas Finn doesn't. If England have proved anything it's that playing two 10s doesn't really work most of the time.

I reckon we'll see our first choice against Ireland as Toonie will view it as a game we can come out of the blocks on against familiar opposition.

9. Price
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Johnson
13. Jones (or potentially Hutchinson if Jones still isn't showing form, or SuperDunc - so many unknowns!)
14. Seymour (back to form although the shirt is Graham's if Seymour has a howler over summer)
15. Hogg

The bench choices will be key as well, as Ireland are experts at crushing any momentum, which is also part of the reason I think Hastings will be on the bench rather than on the field. He's a valuable player to have as a sub. Him and Horne Jr could be game changers for us this WC, although I'd imagine toonie will go conservative with Laidlaw on the bench.

by **RDW** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 14:19

Unless we beat Ireland the Japan game is going to be a must win regardless - assuming both teams beat Samoa and Russia.

We will have to go full metal jacket for that Japan game!

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 14:29

RDW wrote:Unless we beat Ireland the Japan game is going to be a must win regardless - assuming both teams beat Samoa and Russia.

We will have to go full metal jacket for that Japan game!

All games are must wins in our pool. I think we're going to see one upset and I'm just praying it will be Ireland against Samoa/Japan and not us!

by **BigGee** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 14:33

Nobody mentioning Duncan Taylor?

Toonie likes him a lot and has stuck by him.

Din't discount him

by jimbopip Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 14:37

Gee, if you put your cycle racing goggles away and put on your reading bi-focals you'll see Spacey mentioned umpteen times above. warning

by **NeilyBroon** Sun 14 Jul 2019 - 14:37

BigGee wrote:Nobody mentioning Duncan Taylor?

Toonie likes him a lot and has stuck by him.

Din't discount him

He is in the conversation, just hasn't played in a very very long time relative to everyone else. Not to say that he can't have an excellent summer but under no illusions, he may not be up to scratch straight away...

If he is though I would be more than happy to see him back in the fold! I just hope he doesn't get any more concussions if he does feature... more for his sake than anything

by **RDW** Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 8:38

jimbopip wrote:

As Deputy High Heidyin In Chief surely can authorize a Jimbo By The Sea budget which will ensure higher quality posts which will draw in a greater readership and increase advertising revenue. It would be an investment. Pays for itself , really.

Deputy??

Alas our budget is currently all being spent on keeping 21st in St. Clabbert's Hospital for wayward priests!

Scotland WC Chat - Page 11 Father%20Jack

Scotland WC Chat - Page 11 Father%20Jack

by tigertattie Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 11:10

RDW wrote:
jimbopip wrote:

As Deputy High Heidyin In Chief surely can authorize a Jimbo By The Sea budget which will ensure higher quality posts which will draw in a greater readership and increase advertising revenue. It would be an investment. Pays for itself , really.

Deputy??

Alas our budget is currently all being spent on keeping 21st in St. Clabbert's Hospital for wayward priests!

you mean thats not a picture of jimbo?

by tigertattie Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 13:10

jimbopip wrote:tigertattie, if you go on to that YouTube thingy.... Squidge Rugby is an excellent site for cheering you up. There is a clip entitled, "Just how good are Scotland?".

He raises a few interesting points; successful teams have coaches who have been in place for a full WC cycle (four years minimum), Scotland are possibly the best attacking team on the planet, Dancer is the best passing 10 in the world, we have beaten EVERY tier one nation bar the Blackness and Boks recently, conversely we have also lost to everyone.

The most interesting point he raises is that since it is almost 100% guaranteed that Toonie will be in post through to the next WC then , in effect, this one is just a learning experience for him. Yes, he'll want to win every match but really he should have the longer view and be looking at learning lessons for the next tournament. One early indicator for me would be the inclusion of youngsters in the final squad, Bradbury, Ritchie, Fagerson and Hutchinson, rather than older heads.

Another really interesting point is that perhaps the team define themselves in a one dimensional way. If you look at Wales they are Gatlandball all day every day. But are Scotland too focussed on being the best attacking team on the planet? If Ireland look at their pool game with us and think, "We'll never beat them by playing fast, open rugby." Then they'll play ugly, grinding, batter out a result rugby. And they'll play it just as well as the other stuff. Are we so focussed on being the best attacking side that we can't win ugly?

Finally, a thought all of my own.

A link from the SRU popped up on my Facebook page; it had a photie from a match which contained Jamie Ritchie, Maggie, Not A Show Pony and Dancer. Four genuinely exciting players. All of whom have made our hearts beat a little faster when they have donned their national jersey. And yet...apart from Dancer three of them could easily NOT be eating teppanyaki prawns and steamed rice this summer. How ridiculous is that?

BatSchitFinnsanity

That needs to be in the oxford dictionary in the next edition!

That laddie sums scotland up perfectly, but then he went and ruined it all by saying something stupid like "I love you" (he used the "Scotland finally coming of age" or "dark horse" phrase which is the most worrying phrase that can be uttered in Scottish sport!

by bsando Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 16:14

With Strauss swapping Sale for the Bulls, these upcoming warm-up games may well be the last we see of him in a Scotland shirt. The potential of Bradbury and Fagerson who both had a solid ending to their seasons and the unknown Thomson and experienced Wilson will probably be ahead of Strauss as well. Rugby pass mention he was at his barnstorming best during his early days at Glasgow and they sum up his time at the club quite well I think.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 16:24

Josh Strauss was a pivotal player in Glasgow rise to the top, as influential as Naka, Nico and Hoggy in many ways. He put in some sterling efforts and will always be remembered with great affection by the fans.

You can't role back the click though and both parties have moved on. I don't think him coming back was ever realistic.

He has decided his future lies back in SA and good luck to him with that venture.

by bsando Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 16:48

Yeah that was my thoughts too, he was definitely one of my favourite players to watch when he was at his peak for Glasgow. I'm sure he'll put in a few solid games for Scotland in the Summer and hope he does well at Bulls. Sure their fans will be delighted.

by 123456789. Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 17:56

If Hutchinson is the real deal I suspect he'll go ahead of Grigg who is a solid club player but unfortunately little more. I've seen a little of Hutchinson, if he is as good as he seems then he is good enough to really challenge Huw Jones. Grigg does seem to apply himself better than Jones (certainly in a Glasgow shirt) however there is much less to apply. Jones will travel unless he is unimaginably poor over the summer. He has so much credit in the bank it is hard to see how he could expend it without falling short of Scotland's standards on and off of the pitch. If Taylor is the player he once was I could see him and Johnson travelling as Scotland's preferred inside centres with Russell to cover if need be. It would be tough on Horne but he has had more than enough chances to make the shirt his own and has never quite managed it. He has achieved much for Scotland but what springs to mind are his butchered two-on-ones, his interception pass against Ireland and being steam-rolled by Tuilagi. If we can travel with Taylor, Johnson, Jones and Hutchinson then we have a quartet of genuine attacking threats and creative minds that can unleash Hogg, Graham, Seymour and Maitland should they be called upon. An improvement on the relatively impressive quartet of Bennett, Scott, Dunbar (albeit injured and never again the same) and Horne available four years ago. Head and shoulders above Lamont, Morrison, Ansbro and De Luca of 2011.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 18:33

I think the Johnson, Taylor, Jones, Hutchy combo would be my choices if they sll stay fit and play well in warm ups.

Steyn may still go as a winger who can play centre and GL will cover the 3rd FH spot.

Pete Horne may be the unlucky one, but would probably be the first reserve should someone fall by thd wayside.

by jimbopip Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 18:34

Numbers, you make a couple of really good points and it would be churlish to nit pick. But when has that ever stopped us?

Even if Hutchinson has shown up really well in the training camp thus far we still won't know if he's the real deal until he has been tried and tested in a genuinely competitive Test match. Which is probably why they call them Tests.

Similarly, we'll only know if Taylor is back to his, very impressive, best "once the hurly burly's done....once the battle's lost and won". By which time it may be too late.

I'm included to believe that Cowboy Dave still isn't convinced that he's Not A Show Pony, which may explain Shug's Lord Lucan impersonation at Scotstoun this summer. Certainly IF Toonie can get him onboard and IF he's fit then he can really bring something special to our attack. Mind you, I'm still in two minds about his defence: which may be why Cowboy Dave hasn't been too keen on selecting him. By which I mean that CD is not convinced by his defence,,,,not that he is refusing to select one of Scotland's best backs because someone said, "Hey boss, Jimbo has doubts about young Shuggy".

Horne chin

Is becoming Mr Marmite on these boards. It was very noticeable that the Glasgow attack improved markedly when he replaced Johnson in the Pro 14 Final. He constantly brought others into play and varied the point of attack while keeping up a very high tempo. He is almost the anti-Shug: he is very solid and reliable and consistent but possibly just falls short of being a top notch international player. Still, I'll be very surprised if the Tombola forgets him.

Grigg, could very probably make hay against Japan and Russia but equally probably would be out of his depth in a quarter final against the Boks or the Blackness.

Head and shoulders above Lamont, Morrison, Ansbro and De Luca of 2011 Nit picking here, but Ansbro looked as if he had a lot of potential before injury robbed him of the chance to fulfil it.

The more I think about the four centre places the more confused I become. Initially I felt we might see Dancer-Haircut at 10-12 but it's a fairly brutal tournament and players will ned to be rested: with only two 10's either both of them are in every match day 23 OR we take a 12 who has experience of playing 10. Peter horne seems to be the only one who fills that description, although Hutchinson played 10 at under-20. But surely not even Toonie would consider that a sensible idea?

Sensible selection
Johnson-Jones backed by Horne-Seaman zen

Half Tombola
Johnson-Jones backed by Horne-Taylor Wink

Full Tombola
Horne-Hutchinson backed by Harris- Grigg picard

by 123456789. Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 19:38

If we cannot nitpick then this forum is practically redundant. You are right to point out that there are unknowns and knowns. On Hutchinson and Taylor we will not know if they are up to it until they are tested of course. However we have seen that Grigg is not a good enough international centre. We know that Taylor was up to it. Those who have seen him at his best will be able to tell seeing him now how close he is to that. We know that Horne is often a star player for Glasgow, he was the closest to turning that final for Glasgow. Yet how often has he flattered to deceive on the international stage? We know that if Scotland reach the knockout stages then we will need to play probably our greatest ever game to reach the semi-final. For us to threaten the business end we will need to defeat Ireland and South Africa, or New Zealand. We know that Grigg has neither the power nor the guile to unlock those defences. We know that Horne probably does not. We know that Jones does. We know that Johnson does. We know that Taylor did, and still might. We know that Hutchinson and Steyn might. Picking Grigg and Horne is picking a nervy win over Japan and a valiant quarter-final. We know that story well and I have not particularly enjoyed it. Taylor, Hutchinson and Steyn are more ambitious options. Picking them is aiming high. It does not mean we'll reach the semis or beyond, in fact we probably still won't but we'd be a lot more likely than if we went with the conservative option. I'd rather gamble on crashing out in ignominy to reach the semi-final than play it safe.
When it comes to covering 10, if we were blighted by injuries to our first choice 10s in a match then we would always have Laidlaw to cover if need be. He has done so ably as recently as 2018. If we suffer a third injury to a fly-half in a single game then we have to face the reality that the rugby gods have once again returned to their favourite past-time of abusing Scottish rugby. Although we would still have Hogg who could cover if absolutely needed as well as Hutchinson to get us through the end of that individual game. Horne or Weir or Dan Parks or Phil Godman or Heathcote or, fingers crossed, Gordon Ross could be called up for the following game as injury cover perhaps Chris Paterson may finally get his chance to nail the Scotland 10 shirt that was rightfully his. Or perhaps Townsend could lace up his own boots. The point being, if a fly-half gets injured then we can call up whichever person at least a quarter Scottish we so choose. In the meantime it seems silly to cater for a doomsday scenario.
On Ansbro, he did look talented and his ending was tragic. However I suspect he would have been pushed aside by Mark Bennett who has been nudged out since (as much by injury as anything else). If it were not for cruel injuries we would have perhaps be looking at a competition between an aged Ansbro, Mark Bennett in his prime, Huw Jones maybe still off the boil with Steyn and Hutchinson off the ranks. Who would win in that battle I don't know, but there can be little doubt that our centre options now are markedly better than they have been for two decades.

by jimbopip Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 20:01

Again Numbers, I agree with most of what you say EXCEPT.....

Frodo covering 10 in case of an injury during a match. furious

This means either he starts at 9 and moves to 10, which means Aldi price is on the bench and Wee George is on his PS4.

OR

Frodo starts on the bench as 9 cover but comes on at 10. Again, Wee George gets plenty of FIFA19 practice and we don't have a 9 on the bench.

Peter Horne is a better 10 than Frodo, who is the slowest 9 in the squad and possibly the least suited of all the half backs in the squad to play Toonies high tempo heads up rugby. However, he is likely to be picked for his "leadership" qualities.

Dammit.... I think it will be ; Johnson-Jones-Taylor-Steyn.
Steyn will travel as a centre otherwise Darcy and King Blarehorn will both miss out.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 20:16

Sorry Jim, don't agree with that

Frodo is still a better 10 than Horne. He just does not mske the mistakes that he does. He won't miss touch and will make the right calla on the pitch. He has proved himself at test level time and time again, wheras PH has often been found wanting.

At club levrl PH has been a great player for Glasgow and you are sbsolutely right about his impact in the Pro 14 final. I do however, despite all his caps, struggle to find a similar impact for Scotland.

Numbers is right in this one and we have to roll the dice a little bit.

by jimbopip Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 21:39

BigGee wrote:Sorry Jim, don't agree with that

Frodo is still a better 10 than Horne. Not a playing the high tempo game Toonie demands. Even at 9 He is seen primarily as a finisher, coming on in the last 20 to calm Dancer down and make sure everyone is tucked up before it all ends in tears.He just does not make the mistakes that he does.True, but that's only because he doesn't make anything happen. Horne backs himself every time. And who coached him to do that? He won't miss touch and will make the right call on the pitch. He has proved himself at test level time and time again, whereas PH has often been found wanting.But as Numbers said earlier, we won't progress by taking the safe option, Frodo is the Theresa May of international half backs.

At club levrl PH has been a great player for Glasgow and you are sbsolutely right about his impact in the Pro 14 final. I do however, despite all his caps, struggle to find a similar impact for Scotland.

Numbers is right in this one and we have to roll the dice a little bit. Frodo is a dice where every face is blank....and it weighs five stone so it rolls very very very veeeerrryyyy slowly.

by **BigGee** Mon 15 Jul 2019 - 22:35

I don't think that GL will be a starter in this WC either as a SH or a FH but he does know how to close games out, something that a lot of other Scottish players struggle with. He has done it for us in big games probably more than any other of our players.

This will be his swansong, but I can't see him not going and if he goes he has to provide us with some options of versatility. If we take him just as a SH, then another potential strike player, who could be a starter, might get left behind in the place of a third FH.

by **NeilyBroon** Tue 16 Jul 2019 - 6:39

What FH? Toonie doesn't seem to rate weir and after that the cupboard is bare unless you take Horne as a FH.

GL has been good at closing close games in seasons past, though on the back of this season im not sure i really believe that anymore. Also he is not a fly half, i remember we were desperate for him to go back to scrum half after his stint there as soon as any other player showed any promise. Horne has more experience there and is a decent centre, provided he's paired up well. Laidlaw hasn't played FH in ages and i wouldn't expect him to be immediate cover unless we were in dire straits like in twickenham THAT time.

I think we've got to be brave and start including George Horne on the bench. Otherwise he will risk becoming wasted talent/opportunity, and he really can change a game. If scotland consistently won the first half I'd say sure, whack greig in but we don't, so we need to move on from solid bench choices to momentum changers (in a positiveway of course)

by **BigGee** Tue 16 Jul 2019 - 8:48

We do need a third FH, or else FR and AD will have to play every game.

Thst player is going to be GL or PH

I would go for Greg, but others may disagree.

by EWT Spoons Tue 16 Jul 2019 - 9:22

I'm almost certain Hutchinson used to or has played 10 in the past as well (think he referenced it in that recent interview) he could be the back up option. That is assuming he is capable of stepping up to play at Int. level.

by **BigGee** Tue 16 Jul 2019 - 9:50

Hutchy has played 10 back in his U20 days, but once Hastings arrived on the scene and moved into 10, he moved out and stayed out. He has not played there recently and is now much more of a 13 than a 12.

Yes he could probably cover at a pinch, in the same way that Blairhorn or Hoggy could and that may no doubt become an injury option. It would be a massive leap of faith to throw him into a WC in that position though, given his lack of international experience as well.

I agree that Laidlaw has not played there much recently but he does have the pedigree and experience to pull it off. Toonie has turned to him a couple of times in his reign, in the France and Italy games a season ago and he delivered on both occasions.

I could see the FH combos for the 4 games as something like this:

Ireland - Russell to start, Hastings bench

Samoa - Hastings to start, Laidlaw bench

Russia - Laidlaw to start, Russell/Hastings bench

Japan - Russell to start, Hastings bench

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