ICC Cricket World Cup

by **LondonTiger** Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:08 am

First topic message reminder :

Table
England 2pts (+2.08nrr)
Afghanistan
Australia
Bangladesh
India
New Zealand
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
West Indies
South Africa 0pts (-2.08 nrr)

Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30
10:30 England vs ~~South Africa~~ (The Oval)

Fri, May 31
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)

Knock Out Fixtures

To Follow

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:58 am

Early Impressions
Pak is not playing as well as score card suggests...they have been "chancing their arm" and been lucky wit edges and missed hooks

Also the pitch is not a 400 run par pitch...there is bounce and some seam movement....and 300 would be a workable total
Pak need to calm dowm

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:59 am

Duty281 wrote:I forgot how short these boundaries are at Trent Bridge. It's laughable.

Does raise a debate about it's suitability for international cricket...because it's not even a boundaries thing (ie. some grounds you'll see the rope 10-15 yards in from the stands), it's just the actual dimensions of the ground itself.

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 am

Wasted review

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:04 am

what a wasted review....you don't take a chance so early with DRS......to me it shows Eng are rattled

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am

I think it's a facet of 350 not being enough so many times before and the stick babar in particular got for his century last time kpf. Also a morale issue ...come out with intent and fighting. Also the top 3 are so vital to Pakistan but have maybe been shackled by that recently ...nit allowed to play their full attacking game and make the most of their talent for fear of getting out cheaply. They have nothing to lose really. So far its planned put well for them but there is an element of risk it goes badly wrong quickly.

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:12 am

Pakistan need a minimum of 400. Can't see them defending anything fewer than that.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:13 am

KP_fan wrote:Early Impressions
Pak is not playing as well as score card suggests...they have been "chancing their arm" and been lucky wit edges and missed hooks

Also the pitch is not a 400 run par pitch...there is bounce and some seam movement....and 300 would be a workable total
Pak need to calm dowm

300 a workable total? With only 4 actual bowlers with a 50 yard boundary one side? Not sure about that KP_F personally

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:16 am

Imam is playing normal and good cricket
Fakhar is a doing pre-meditated slogging and likely to hold out to spinner sooner than later

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:18 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Early Impressions
Pak is not playing as well as score card suggests...they have been "chancing their arm" and been lucky wit edges and missed hooks

Also the pitch is not a 400 run par pitch...there is bounce and some seam movement....and 300 would be a workable total
Pak need to calm dowm

300 a workable total? With only 4 actual bowlers with a 50 yard boundary one side? Not sure about that KP_F personally

I dunno about boundaries.....I have my observation based on pitch
& Pak jas a 5th and 6th bowler in Shoiab & Hafeez both of whom would be good to play as spcialits spinners for many a sides

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:28 am

Only in the same sense that moeen could play as a specialist in either discipline kpf

As it is though moeen and wood seem to have really slowed things off ....we can put 500 to bed anyway

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:35 am

Well, and Carry on World Cup as this sounds, that's very tight.

Wonderful delivery, wonderful from Buttler, cracking first wicket. 82-1

Fakhar with a good platform of 36 from 40, so that stumping a real breakthrough for England.

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:37 am

Gooseberry wrote:Only in the same sense that moeen could play as a specialist in either discipline kpf

As it is though moeen and wood seem to have really slowed things off ....we can put 500 to bed anyway

Moeen has played as a regular bowler and lone spinner may a times and has a FC bowling average of 38

Malik has 150 odi wkts at 4.6 RPO
and 260 FC wikctes at 28
and from all I have seen him.....he is a pretty competent spinner , who can also bowl a doosra......no less than Moeen....a shade more deceptive.

Fakhar falls predictably....he is an ugly slogger

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:38 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Well, and Carry on World Cup as this sounds, that's very tight.

Wonderful delivery, wonderful from Buttler, cracking first wicket. 82-1

Fakhar with a good platform of 36 from 40, so that stumping a real breakthrough for England.

Good piece of keeping by Jos, after a bit of an off day behind the stumps against SA. Moeen and Wood bowling nicely in tandem here, since the fielding restrictions have lapsed Pakistan have taken their foot off the gas notably

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:40 am

The amount of turn Moeen got will interest Shadab.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:40 am

Thought you meant buttler had bowled it for a second! Well that's a return to old fashioned wickets from pressure and economy drawing the mistake.
If they dont make 350 England have to be strong favourites given rent history between the sides ..that's without considering the part time bowling and short boundaries.
Wood looking a very good selection

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:42 am

KP...I was referring to hafeez who is pretty mediocre in both departments
In odis moeens bowling record isnt great by any standard

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:43 am

Too many dots from Pakistan. Need to rotate the strike a lot more. Still on course for 350 though.

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:47 am

Gooseberry wrote:KP...I was referring to hafeez who is pretty mediocre in both departments
In odis moeens bowling record isnt great by any standard

Hafeez is already the 6th bowler.....and his 4 to 6 overs should be looked at merely either cushion for some-one else's bad bowling or an additional luxury available should pitch assist spinners....and Moeen has show to get some purchase.

3 pace bowlers.....a leggie, an Off spinner with a doosra and an action similar to Saqlain...and a 6th bowler who is a SLA,,,Pak attack ain't a bad one at all.
300 and it would be game on.....and the further they go....the better their chances.
But don't rule out a 250-270 bowled out yet for Pak

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 11:59 am

Babar Azam has an ODI average of 51...and yet technically he is flawed....doesn't get behind the line and tends to drive with his feet stuck a bit and standing lag sidish of the ball....and you see that in his paltry FC average of 35
He is a candidate for caught behind / slips

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Duty281 wrote:Too many dots from Pakistan. Need to rotate the strike a lot more. Still on course for 350 though.

Much better after the short interval.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:01 pm

KP_fan wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:KP...I was referring to hafeez who is pretty mediocre in both departments
In odis moeens bowling record isnt great by any standard

Hafeez is already the 6th bowler.....and his 4 to 6 overs should be looked at merely either cushion for some-one else's bad bowling or an additional luxury available should pitch assist spinners....and Moeen has show to get some purchase.

3 pace bowlers.....a leggie, an Off spinner with a doosra and an action similar to Saqlain...and a 6th bowler who is a SLA,,,Pak attack ain't a bad one at all.
300 and it would be game on.....and the further they go....the better their chances.
But don't rule out a 250-270 bowled out yet for Pak

OK I should know better than to get into this kind of conversation with you. You started off be asserting that Hafeexz was good enough to be a specialist bowler. Now hes the part time option.

So what is it about this Pakistan attack thats so much better than the ones England took apart in the 4 match series that means they should be able to defend 300 on a track they shipped well in excess of 400 on a couple of years ago?

300 is of course always defendable if wickets tumble, but its madness to think its in any way a comfortable total against a team who rarely fail to chase down scores well in excess of that, let alone on a track they've twice scored over 400 on. The conditions are maybe not as golden as they were last year but theres also not as much in the pitch as there was in the SA game where england still made well over 300 with longer boundaries. England have looked done a number of times recently and had someone like Stokes step up to make big rapid runs down the order. Spinners are a good tool, but again the short boundaries make them easily taken apart for someone gets going and has the guts to get to the pitch of the ball ( and not get stumped whoops!).
Saying 300 is enough is as bold as predicting someone would score 500. The reality is they need over 350 to feel confident against England, and pushing 400 to feel in firm control. Its highly unlikely they will get there.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:02 pm

What a catch boy!

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:03 pm

SIR CHRISTOPHER WOAKES

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:04 pm

KP_fan wrote:Babar Azam has an ODI average of 51...and yet technically he is flawed....doesn't get behind the line and tends to drive with his feet stuck a bit and standing lag sidish of the ball....and you see that in his paltry FC average of 35
He is a candidate for caught behind / slips

yet also the worlds number one T20 batsman. I think that says everything about him really!
But its surprising to me to see him bat "sensibly" so far, id expected him to go off the leash and try to lift Pakistans rate.
Down to 5.5 an over at halfway makes that 350 achievable but requires them to speed up rather than slow further.

A second wicket down heaps pressure on now. Nervy times for Pakistan, someone needs to come off big.

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:11 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:KP...I was referring to hafeez who is pretty mediocre in both departments
In odis moeens bowling record isnt great by any standard

Hafeez is already the 6th bowler.....and his 4 to 6 overs should be looked at merely either cushion for some-one else's bad bowling or an additional luxury available should pitch assist spinners....and Moeen has show to get some purchase.

3 pace bowlers.....a leggie, an Off spinner with a doosra and an action similar to Saqlain...and a 6th bowler who is a SLA,,,Pak attack ain't a bad one at all.
300 and it would be game on.....and the further they go....the better their chances.
But don't rule out a 250-270 bowled out yet for Pak

OK I should know better than to get into this kind of conversation with you. You started off be asserting that Hafeexz was good enough to be a specialist bowler. Now hes the part time option.

So what is it about this Pakistan attack thats so much better than the ones England took apart in the 4 match series that means they should be able to defend 300 on a track they shipped well in excess of 400 on a couple of years ago?

300 is of course always defendable if wickets tumble, but its madness to think its in any way a comfortable total against a team who rarely fail to chase down scores well in excess of that, let alone on a track they've twice scored over 400 on. The conditions are maybe not as golden as they were last year but theres also not as much in the pitch as there was in the SA game where england still made well over 300 with longer boundaries. England have looked done a number of times recently and had someone like Stokes step up to make big rapid runs down the order. Spinners are a good tool, but again the short boundaries make them easily taken apart for someone gets going and has the guts to get to the pitch of the ball ( and not get stumped whoops!).
Saying 300 is enough is as bold as predicting someone would score 500. The reality is they need over 350 to feel confident against England, and pushing 400 to feel in firm control. Its highly unlikely they will get there.

-I replied to your assertion that Pak is playing with 4 bowlers....that they have a 5th & 6th bowler in Shoiab & Hafeez who are good as regulars in many sides
discussion with you encouraged me to look up Shoiab's stats only to confirm that he is indeed as good as a specialist first choice spinner.....so Pak as 5 full bowlers.........and 6th bowler a luxury

-I have never seen Eng chase down 350 in a world cup or CT or set a 400 in a CT or world cup game.
I feel that bilateral ODIs....are merely competitive trial / practice / optimize your combination and only material high pressure games are World cup and CT.

For me 300 will test Eng and 350 would be beyond them.....for reasons explained above
1-Pak has 5 good bowlers
2-World Cup / CT pressure levels are different from bilateral ODIs

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:21 pm

Something about England needing to hold their catches

Interesting that Pakistan are looking to score off every ball rather than take those risks for the most part though. Cant see it changing after the near miss, so the scoring rate stay under control.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:21 pm

England - take all those great catches, and then Roy drops a dolly at long off, Hafeez gets a life off Rashid

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:22 pm

Poor drop from Jason Roy. Shouldn't matter though as Pakistan aren't going to make enough to trouble England.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:26 pm

Azam looks like hes playing anchor, which really doesnt suit him. As pointed out above hes hardly a classical player, but one capable of clearing those short boundaries if given the opportunity. It does seem they are following a similar patter to how they took on the series, score over 300 and hope the bowlers can come to the party.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:29 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Azam looks like hes playing anchor, which really doesnt suit him.

Immediately hits a 6 Rolling Eyes

14 off teh Rashid over ...yikes. Pakistan need this.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:33 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Azam looks like hes playing anchor, which really doesnt suit him.

Immediately hits a 6

14 off teh Rashid over ...yikes. Pakistan need this.

You're the anti Trebell.

Archer back into the attack now, he bowled well with no luck first up, and has started well again here going past the outside edge first ball

The umpires are being very harsh on the head high wides today

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:42 pm

Archers dropped one now...like literally instead of bowling it. Carry on cricket continues.

Id noticed England have shipped a lot more wides and byes than normal, they wont be happy about the number of extras.

Pakistan are scoring OK but not freely.

OOh run out .....?

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:43 pm

I'm glad the umpires are enforcing the over-head wides correctly and I hope it continues.. They didn't when the Windies bowled against Pakistan.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:45 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'm glad the umpires are enforcing the over-head wides correctly and I hope it continues.. They didn't when the Windies bowled against Pakistan.

At least Amla had the decency to get his head on one and prove it wasnt wide.

I guess the consitency here is the thing. If its getting called "correctly" in one game it needs to be in all. Players shouldnt have to guess whats going to be legal game to game.

Rashids getting murdered here. Doenst bode well for Pakistans spinners. The short boundaries leave them very vulnerable to those brave enough to come down to them.

Run rates shot up very quickly, desperately need a change here.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:48 pm

Shadab Khan is a vastly superior bowler to Adil Rashid. Rashid has been absolutely awful so far this summer.

by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:49 pm

As for the head high wides it’s worth considering the majority of all these subcontinent players are pretty short in height.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:50 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Shadab Khan is a vastly superior bowler to Adil Rashid. Rashid has been absolutely awful so far this summer.

ICC Cricket World Cup - Page 10 So-yovve-decided-to-post-this-heres-why-you-shouldnt-37236819

by alfie Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:57 pm

Pakistan going pretty well here ...I know England are supposed to be happy chasing 350 but I doubt they planned to be doing so today. Going with the battery of pace bowlers hasn't really worked yet although Wood has been economical. The largely much criticized Moeen the only man to grab a wicket so far...Rashid has gone for a few though I gather he was unlucky with a dropped catch while I was away from the TV .
And as I type Moeen has his third !

My Trebell attempt working before I'd even posted Smile

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:58 pm

Bit of a silly shot that from Babar - never really seemed to go through with it. England chipping away, keeping the run rate in check for the moment

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:02 pm

Yep! Moeen having his once a season good game to make everyone think hes not a passenger.

Babar is the new Trott in ODIs, as soon as he steps up the pace he gets out ...but scores 50+ almost everytime he bats.

350 is going to be a tough ask from here even with the wickets in hand. Whilst I agree noone would want to chase over 300 England certainly shouldnt be scared of it, nor will Pakistan be happy unless they are well over 300.
They do look set to get a total that keeps them in the game, but not one big enough to make them favourite.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:06 pm

Roy's fielding like me today

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:18 pm

Sarfaraz seems pumped up today........and so he is trying to slog everything towards cow corner

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:20 pm

KP_fan wrote:Sarfaraz seems pumped up today........and so he is trying to slof everything towards cow corner

yet not scoring much. It does seem that all the Pakistan batsmen have tried to play the 400 game but found it much easier when pottering along (aside form when Rashids getting mauled).

Seems set to be a score around 330 unless wickets tumble or someone goes absolutely berserk. Leaves a game for sure, but theres no way Pakistan will feel comfortable.

by VTR Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:21 pm

It's the kind of day where BBC comments will be questioning why Chris Jordan isn't playing! Joking aside, who knows what a good score is, this might turn out to be a good bowling display

by KP_fan Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:24 pm

KP_fan wrote:
-I replied to your assertion that Pak is playing with 4 bowlers....that they have a 5th & 6th bowler in Shoiab & Hafeez who are good as regulars in many sides
discussion with you encouraged me to look up Shoiab's stats only to confirm that he is indeed as good as a specialist first choice spinner.....so Pak as 5 full bowlers.........and 6th bowler a luxury

-I have never seen Eng chase down 350 in a world cup or CT or set a 400 in a CT or world cup game.
I feel that bilateral ODIs....are merely competitive trial / practice / optimize your combination and only material high pressure games are World cup and CT.

For me 300 will test Eng and 350 would be beyond them.....for reasons explained above
1-Pak has 5 good bowlers
2-World Cup / CT pressure levels are different from bilateral ODIs

I come back to my post.....& the bold part above....The number of dropped catches, fluffed fielding and the DRS usage in panic so early....all indicators of pressure...that is not felt in a 4 or 5 game bilateral series

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:25 pm

10 an over from here takes Pakistan just past 350. 12 an over puts them in the 370 region.

370 might just be possible if these two bat the majority of the 11 overs left.

by alfie Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:27 pm

I'm not as confident as Goose at keeping them under 350. Plenty of wickets in hand and the boundaries aren't that far away here... Couple of wickets would make a big difference but they still have to take them.
I only saw highlights of the West Indies demolition job but it seems their bouncer attack was far more effective than England's has been today... Perhaps the umpires have been harsher on wides ? Or perhaps the English bouncers haven't been quite well enough directed so far...
I am pleased to see Moeen in the wickets . He is what he is - no Swann ; but he's the best available in his role and he has played his part in this side's rise up the rankings - though he could certainly do with some runs ! Also glad to see Buttler bringing off a stumping : he's had a bit of a 'mare lately behind the stumps and that neat effort will do wonders for his confidence.

243/3 with eleven to go : 320 at least , surely ? And very possibly more...England will need some good death bowling to keep it in check...

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:31 pm

alfie wrote:
I only saw highlights of the West Indies demolition job but it seems their bouncer attack was far more effective than England's has been today...

I would also suggest Pakistan haven't played the short ball like scared 10 year olds today too

by Duty281 Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:35 pm

Guess that Hafeez drop was pretty costly! Pakistan have to push for 370 from here. They can't be content with 330/340 - it probably won't be enough.

by Gooseberry Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:41 pm

Still not many overs going at more than 10 so you can kiss that 370 goodbye, but these two are looking remarkably chance free at the moment . Factor in some shoddy lines and fielding from England its looking good for 350.
6 from Hafeez there, Wood off line giving an easy hit for a quality player.

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