England's strength in depth...and who makes their RWC squad?

by Guest Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Mirroring the thread I did for Wales, England have had huge strength in depth for the last 9 years or so. Under Lancaster it seemed to be a hindrance as much as a strength, with no-one really leaping out to claim key positions, cycling through the likes of Twelvetrees, Burrell, Barritt etc. in the centre.

Now, it feels like England do have some real test quality players who have grabbed shirts with both hands and are nailed on: the Vunipolas, Tuilagi, Lawes, and latterly players like May, Curry, and Underhill.

With that in mind...who makes England's 31 man squad based on who's fit and available (as well as who's out injured)? If you want to include who you'd personally pick as well that'd be interesting, but who do England fans think will be in that squad in Japan?

Also, who is in the starting 23 and who are the 6-7 reserve players who stand a good chance of a call up?

I've done it for Wales in the Wales thread - think it's looking very settled, with a few first 15 positions up for debate depending on opposition. From the outside England's squad looks a lot less settled or certain.

Squads ten to be:

17-18 forwards
5 Props
2 or 3 Hookers
5 Second rows
5 or 6 Back rowers

13-14 Backs
3 Scrum-halves
2-3 Fly-halves
3 Centres
5 Back 3

So who/what is the current England squad?

by BamBam Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:33 am

I'd swap Nowell and Cokanasiga based on the former's injury

If all fit Nowell would be a definite for me

by Geordie Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:44 am

Rinsure wrote:So removing Ashton from the back 3 equation leaves us looking at probably five from:

- May (definite)
- Daly (definite)
- Watson (probable)
- Brown (likely)
- Nowell (likely)
- Cokanasiga (possible)
- Thorley (possible)

Anyone missing?

Could mconoccie be a dark horse?

by Rinsure Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:34 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
Rinsure wrote:So removing Ashton from the back 3 equation leaves us looking at probably five from:

- May (definite)
- Daly (definite)
- Watson (probable)
- Brown (likely)
- Nowell (likely)
- Cokanasiga (possible)
- Thorley (possible)

Anyone missing?

Could mconoccie be a dark horse?

Maybe, but unlikely, I would have thought - unless injuries cause problems. He's very good, but who would you leave out to take him?

by propdavid_london Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:30 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting mark is still listed as being with us...wonder whats going on with him.

Singleton and Te'o are still listed as Worcester - due to contracts running to end of June perhaps.

Might have missed it somewhere! Where is Teo moving to?

by **LondonTiger** Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:45 am

propdavid_london wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting mark is still listed as being with us...wonder whats going on with him.

Singleton and Te'o are still listed as Worcester - due to contracts running to end of June perhaps.
Might have missed it somewhere! Where is Teo moving to?

AFAIK no club has been announced yet. Wuss announced he was leaving back in April. With his injury woes and personal issues having limited his club matches, I doubt there have been any big money offers yet.

by propdavid_london Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:49 am

Ah, yes, that's what I had heard - he was leaving but no destination yet!
Cheers LT.

by robbo277 Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Interesting mark is still listed as being with us...wonder whats going on with him.

Singleton and Te'o are still listed as Worcester - due to contracts running to end of June perhaps.
Might have missed it somewhere! Where is Teo moving to?
AFAIK no club has been announced yet. Wuss announced he was leaving back in April. With his injury woes and personal issues having limited his club matches, I doubt there have been any big money offers yet.

I guess he'll have to consider his international career. If he's still an England player he can only consider a club in England and could take less money with international payments. Otherwise he could consider a move abroad.

Obviously with Tuilagi staying with Leicester Te'o will probably be second choice at best, and might not get that many more call-ups after the World Cup. So he'll probably be courting a move abroad. A French club would possibly be more keen on him because it would mean he doesn't play any more internationals and he could demand a slightly higher wage.

by Rinsure Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:22 am

England men’s head coach Eddie Jones has announced a squad of 31 players to attend a second training camp at The Lensbury Hotel (30 June-4 July).

Danny Cipriani (Gloucester Rugby), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints) and Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby) have been added to the squad while Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins) and Marcus Smith (Harlequins) will return to their clubs next week.

England training squad

Forwards

Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Tom Dunn (Bath Rugby), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints), Val Rapava Ruskin (Gloucester Rugby), Nick Schonert (Worcester Warriors), Brad Shields (Wasps), Jack Singleton (Worcester Warriors), Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby), Mark Wilson (Newcastle Falcons).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Cipriani (Gloucester Rugby), Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby), Elliot Daly (Wasps), George Ford (Leicester Tigers), Piers Francis (Northampton Saints), Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Jonny May (Leicester Tigers), Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby), Dan Robson (Wasps), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Ollie Thorley (Gloucester Rugby), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

In for medical treatment:
George Kruis (Saracens)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens)

Via: https://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-world-cup-eddie-jones-announces-squad-for-second-training-camp/

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:32 am

Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?

Surprised to see Piers Francis in there, he had a very good last quarter the season but thought his England days were done.

So which ones are going to be going home when the Sarries and Chiefs boys come in?

by robbo277 Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:40 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?

Surprised to see Piers Francis in there, he had a very good last quarter the season but thought his England days were done.

So which ones are going to be going home when the Sarries and Chiefs boys come in?

If Ford or Farrell go down in one of the warm-ups than Cipriani may make the squad. If they both remain fit with Slade in there as well I don't think Cipriani has much of a chance.

But that's a quite real prospect so it makes sense to keep him in touch with the squad and have a look at him.

Is there another training camp next week? Or is he starting to bring his main squad together? I can't keep up.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:42 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?

I don't think it's a mystery. Jones will choose Ford and Farrell unless one gets injured. In the event of an injury, Cipriani is one of the next cabs off the rank, so it makes sense to have him in camp. If Jones thinks three 10s is the way to go, then he will be in with a better shout.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:04 am

Full WC training squad will be announced next week at the conclusion of this training camp.

In the mix to be added:

Moon, Hepburn, George, LCD, Williams, Sinckler, Itoje, Billy, Spencer, Farrell, Lozowski, Slade

Outsiders: Isiekwe, Rhodes, Earl, Simmonds, Wigglesworth, Devoto, Tompkins.

by maestegmafia Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:02 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?
I don't think it's a mystery. Jones will choose Ford and Farrell unless one gets injured. In the event of an injury, Cipriani is one of the next cabs off the rank, so it makes sense to have him in camp. If Jones thinks three 10s is the way to go, then he will be in with a better shout.

It’s an interesting situation. Cipriani hasn’t had a look in with Any England coach for the majority of his career, he’s been included in the occasional squad or tour but never given a chance to make the shirt his own.

I think many opposition fans would agree that Cipriani posts a larger less predictable threat than Farrell and Ford. But I don’t think Jones will take him.

I see Marcus Smith hasn’t made this part of the squad?

Good news Dan Robson is recovering though.

by **LondonTiger** Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:16 am

Sinckler released for this week due to picking up a hamstring injury. Slightly odd that they did not add him to the official injured list.

by robbo277 Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:05 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?
I don't think it's a mystery. Jones will choose Ford and Farrell unless one gets injured. In the event of an injury, Cipriani is one of the next cabs off the rank, so it makes sense to have him in camp. If Jones thinks three 10s is the way to go, then he will be in with a better shout.

It’s an interesting situation. Cipriani hasn’t had a look in with Any England coach for the majority of his career, he’s been included in the occasional squad or tour but never given a chance to make the shirt his own.

I think many opposition fans would agree that Cipriani posts a larger less predictable threat than Farrell and Ford. But I don’t think Jones will take him.

I see Marcus Smith hasn’t made this part of the squad?

Good news Dan Robson is recovering though.

I think Eddie is keeping these squads smaller. So he had a look at Marcus Smith last week and will look at Cipriani this week. Marcus Smith dropping out the squad doesn't mean he's dropped and won't be recalled however. He's just assessing his options before the full training squad.

by robbo277 Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:06 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Sinckler released for this week due to picking up a hamstring injury. Slightly odd that they did not add him to the official injured list.

The only injured list I saw were people who were staying in camp for treatment? Maybe Sinckler doesn't need much treatment, just a rest week to let it recover and he can get that at his club?

by maestegmafia Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:38 pm

robbo277 wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Cips, making up the numbers, or does he really want to see what he can bring to the squad?
I don't think it's a mystery. Jones will choose Ford and Farrell unless one gets injured. In the event of an injury, Cipriani is one of the next cabs off the rank, so it makes sense to have him in camp. If Jones thinks three 10s is the way to go, then he will be in with a better shout.

It’s an interesting situation. Cipriani hasn’t had a look in with Any England coach for the majority of his career, he’s been included in the occasional squad or tour but never given a chance to make the shirt his own.

I think many opposition fans would agree that Cipriani posts a larger less predictable threat than Farrell and Ford. But I don’t think Jones will take him.

I see Marcus Smith hasn’t made this part of the squad?

Good news Dan Robson is recovering though.

I think Eddie is keeping these squads smaller. So he had a look at Marcus Smith last week and will look at Cipriani this week. Marcus Smith dropping out the squad doesn't mean he's dropped and won't be recalled however. He's just assessing his options before the full training squad.

Probably a very reasonable idea. Both Marcus and Danny have a lot of strengths he can’t ignore.

I think we are going to see some development on the game we saw England could play in the autumn and six nations.

The interview I read with EJ, certainly alludes to what you are saying.

by Mr Bounce Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:21 am

Marcus Smith would be an interesting option. He's certainly fearless, and not overawed by most situations, as his time in the Premiership and the stand-out performance in the Baa-Baas match showed. In a broken game, either he or Cipriani would have a field day.

The question Eddie has to ask is would he trust either of them in a tight game??

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:42 am

RUGBY WORLD CUP 2019 TRAINING SQUAD

Forwards
Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 11 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 10 caps)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 10 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 9 caps)
Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 58 caps)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 71 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 59 caps)
Ben Moon (Exeter Chiefs, 8 caps)
Brad Shields (Wasps, 8 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
Jack Singleton (Saracens, uncapped)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby 9 caps)
Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 41 caps)
Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs, 17 caps)
Mark Wilson (Sale Sharks, 13 caps)
Backs
Danny Cipriani (Gloucester Rugby, 16 caps)
Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 4 caps)
Elliot Daly (Saracens, 30 caps)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps)
George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 55 caps)
Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 40 caps)
Jonny May (Leicester Tigers, 45 caps)
Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
Ben Spencer (Saracens, 3 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 22 caps)
Ben Te’o (unattached, 18 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 32 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 33 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 85 caps)
In camp for rehabilitation
George Kruis (Saracens, 32 caps)
Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 33 caps)
Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53 caps)

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jul 04, 2019 7:49 am

Overall as expected. Not happy with Heinz ahead of Robson and personally feel Lozowski offers more than Francis. McConnochie seems to have leapfrogged Thorley and is perhaps taking a spot that could have been used for Mike Brown.

It has been stated elsewhere that Marler has only made himself available on the proviso he is only a backup inclusion. I assume this means that if Mako is fit, he stays at home.

by robbo277 Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:05 am

Interesting squad. As widely report, Hartley, Robshaw, Care and Brown all miss out. Robson and Wigglesworth too.

Will be interesting to see where the cuts are to get down to the 31.

Current squad of 35:

Front row: 9 (cut 1)
Second row: 4
Back row: 6 (cut 1)
Scrum halves: 3
Fly halves: 3 (cut 1)
Centres: 5 (cut 1)
Back three: 5

Not much specialist cover at 8 or 15. Wilson and Shields will offer cover at 8, do we think McConnochie will make the final squad? Or could Cipriani make the squad as a 10/15?

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:16 am

I think we have to call it a squad of 38 and include the rehab trio.

by robbo277 Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:26 am

If any of the injured 3 don't make it then they'll be cut.

If Mako makes it, we'll lose an extra loosehead, if Kruis makes it we'll drop Ewels and if Nowell makes it I assume it's McConnochie.

by No 7&1/2 Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:40 am

I've always been a bit underwhelmed when I've seen Ludlam so to have him above Dombrandt after he played well vs the Baa Baas and Robshaw is surprising .Heinz is another odd one.

by TightHEAD Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:46 am

If Robson is still taking blood thinners for the blood clot he had, then he is unable to play contact sport.

by **LondonTiger** Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:56 am

robbo277 wrote:If any of the injured 3 don't make it then they'll be cut.

If Mako makes it, we'll lose an extra loosehead, if Kruis makes it we'll drop Ewels and if Nowell makes it I assume it's McConnochie.

I agree. Based on what he has said to reporters Marler will be cut if Mako makes it as he only wants to go to Japan if Mako is unavailable. I am sure Eddie will try to change Joe's mind, but I did hear he will, atm, only go to UK based training camps - ie does not want to be away from family.

by TightHEAD Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:34 am

Rugby world cup kit.

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/1149169/England-new-Rugby-World-Cup-kit-Japan-Eddie-Jones-squad-Canterbury-jersey-shirt

Horrible, don't like the world cup logo either.

by Collapse2005 Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:55 am

Marler is an interesting one. He seems like a headcase, good player though.

Its funny how we always assume everyone wants to play for their country at the RWC. Liam Squire also rules himself for the ABs for the RWC, said he didn't have it in him or want ready or something like that.

by **Rugby Fan** Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:17 pm

Marler & Sinckler included but not a lot of love for Quins in that squad, with Robshaw, Brown, and Care regarded as over the hill, while Dombrandt, Smith and Marchant aren't seen as wild cards. Hope that's just on perceived merits, and nothing to do with any issues between Jones and Gustard.

by formerly known as Sam Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:04 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Marler & Sinckler included but not a lot of love for Quins in that squad, with Robshaw, Brown, and Care regarded as over the hill, while Dombrandt, Smith and Marchant aren't seen as wild cards. Hope that's just on perceived merits, and nothing to do with any issues between Jones and Gustard.

I'd have preferred to see Care in there personally. However, Jones seems to want a more tactical option at 9, all of Youngs, Spencer and Heinz are all good at controlling territory and the tempo of the game. Not areas of strength for Care. Care would have offered more off the cuff creativity though.

Robehaw and Brown were always unlikely to make it. They've not been tearing it up and forcing Jones hand. It seems Jones wants more pace in the back three which Brown does have and more physicality at 6 and a specialist openside at 7. A jack of all trades like Robshaw doesn't really fit. Dombrandt I think will be a staple in next year's 6N. Smith probably not for a couple of years.

by yappysnap Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:54 pm

Pretty odd calls there!
No Care, Robshaw or Brown.

Barely any 15 cover and guys like Heinz, Francis, Shields and Ludlum all make a mockery of selections over the seasons.

by propdavid_london Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:13 am

Maybe the thinking is that Cips might be in there at 15.

One assumes that Watson is tearing it up in training so is back in there and Nowell will cover when fit (if fit)

Piers Francis, Ewels, Ludlam and Shields are the names that seem more out of place to me. But as someone said above - Ewels may drop out when Kruis comes in. Maybe Francis of McConnochie will drop when Nowell is fit.

But, I guess this is still a training squad.....there are bound to be more twists.

by Poorfour Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:18 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:Robshaw and Brown were always unlikely to make it. They've not been tearing it up and forcing Jones hand.

Did you watch any of Ben Kay’s analysis on this towards the end of the season? He ran a number of segments pointing out just what Robshaw was doing. It’s the usual thing: not the highly visible showreel stuff but the right thing at the right time interventions that make the team tick. One example was two quick clear outs in successive rucks that freed the ball for a short range try. I worry that without someone doing that, England will be exposed at the breakdown. They’re also going to be severely short of experience in the back row.

As for Brown, how many other players does England have who have been secure at the back in a tight international? Daly hasn’t. Watson and Nowell have never played there in a full international as far as I can remember. It’s a huge risk when one likely path to the final includes Wales and the All Blacks.

There are more players who could replace Care, but Eddie hasn’t given any of them enough game time to establish themselves.

I genuinely thought that the AIs and 6Ns were about giving his other options game time so that he would have a wider range of experience in the squad. Between the three Quins and Hartley, he’s ditching 320 caps worth of experience on the eve of the RWC and replacing it with 42, of which 21 have been earned in a different position.

It doesn’t fill me with confidence.

by Rinsure Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:35 am

Scratching my head, to an extent.

Is Wilson the cover at 8? No way Billy plays 80 of every game there. Ludlam over Dombrandt just confuses me here, as Dom would have offered this.

I think we have to assume that if Nowell and Kruis are fit then McConnochie and Ewels will make way. If Mako is fit then Marler... stays? He's tweeted he's pleased to be back: https://twitter.com/JoeMarler/status/1146760238244204544

So. No Mike Brown. We know he's not been included for a while, but at the same time he's been on fire for Quins and is a tried and trusted option at 15 in full on, white hot internationals. As pointed out above, our squad 15 options... aren't. Hmmm.

I'm expecting Jones to take just the two 9s, so BY and Spencer, with Heinz one to miss out on the final squad. Piers Francis to get cut from the centres, as I think EJ will have Manu as his alternative 12 (I know, I know). Ludlam unlikely to go, so that's the back row, as Lawes and Itoje are capable 6 cover, and one from the front row posse, maybe two if Marler goes. Likely to be Singleton and a loosie.

I think Cips will go.

Overall a bit underwhelmed, but I think the tight five look good, the back row bar the cover at 8, and in the backs it's only FB that I'm concerned about. A big concern, admittedly, but I'm not the coach!

by TightHEAD Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:26 am

Some of Jones calls are odd to say the least, I personally wouldn't rely on Billy V fitness and Brown is still the best defensive FB we have.

This is the RWC, games will be tight and I'd rather have Brown at FB than Daly, Nowell or Watson.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:17 am

Mike Brown was in the training camp for the last two weeks. That he has now been excluded suggests he is not at the forefront of Eddie's thinking but is the most likely of the old lags to be called up closer to RWC.

As soon as Eddie had dumped Hughes it was likely that cover for Bully was always likely to be a stop gap. Wilson is good enough to play there against the Tier 2 sides and to cover the position in other games.

Re Ludlum v Dombrandt. Both have been in training together for Eddie to judge. Both have not yet had their full off-season break. The Quin was owed two weeks, the Saint one week. Both would be long odds on supplanting Shields in Eddie's affections, but the issue of the required rest means we should not read too much into the debate just yet.

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:50 am

Ludlam is an open side so not really competing with Dombrandt, it is Wilson and Sheilds that are, which makes it a more sensible decision. Personally I would have had him over Sheilds, but what do I know.

I can't see Ludlam taking the place of either Curry or Underhill as good as the last part of the season was for him, however if one were to get injured................

by **LondonTiger** Fri Jul 05, 2019 5:59 am

Eddie has apparently stated that he knows 28 of his 31 squad with the training sessions deciding the other places.

WPI - Ludlum is a very big openside, would that be his long term position? With the chances of both Curry and Underhill staying fit he may be in with a real chance.

by **Rugby Fan** Fri Jul 05, 2019 6:32 am

I'm most puzzled by Francis, since he was selected early by Jones when he returned from NZ but there's been no real indication he features that highly in his estimation. Most Premiership watchers would probably favour Lozowski over Francis, if you were looking for that mix of skills, but Jones seemed to cool on the Saracens man after he was indifferent against Japan. It might be a coincidence, but that was also the last England game for Danny Care and Zach Mercer.

by Geordie Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:19 am

Just doesnt strike me as a squad thats going to win a world cup.

Not when you look at the likes of South Africa...my moneys on them.

by **LondonTiger** Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:23 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just doesnt strike me as a squad thats going to win a world cup.

Not when you look at the likes of South Africa...my moneys on them.

But how and where would you significantly improve it? Eddie has not left out anyone who is clearly better, especially when you consider that contentious choices like Francis and Ludlum are unlikely to travel.

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:24 am

LondonTiger wrote:Eddie has apparently stated that he knows 28 of his 31 squad with the training sessions deciding the other places.

WPI - Ludlum is a very big openside, would that be his long term position? With the chances of both Curry and Underhill staying fit he may be in with a real chance.

He is not that big, 108kg so 17 stone. I have never seen him play anywhere else except as an emergency. Saints back row all tend to be about that weight, but Wood and Gibson are primarily sixes who can play 7. Brussow is the only other 7 as Harrison seems to have nailed the 8 spot

by **LondonTiger** Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:27 am

"Best" in each position not in squad:

Obano, Dunn, Schoenert, Hill, Slater, Armand, Robshaw, Hughes, Care, Burns, Thorley, Devoto, Marchant, Ashton, Brown.

by WELL-PAST-IT Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:31 am

Lozowski seems to have been seen as a 13 by Sarries, he has all the skills but lacks a little bulk in comparison with Francis who had an excellent end to the season. He can run through players or more often break past the shoulder and get the offload away. He was one of the reasons Saints attacking game was so prominent in the last few months.

Pity Hutchinson chose Scotland, he is going to be one outstanding centre, very much in the Greenwood mold and we know how long we have been missing that sort of skill set.

by Geordie Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:45 am

LondonTiger wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Just doesnt strike me as a squad thats going to win a world cup.

Not when you look at the likes of South Africa...my moneys on them.

But how and where would you significantly improve it? Eddie has not left out anyone who is clearly better, especially when you consider that contentious choices like Francis and Ludlum are unlikely to travel.

Well its margins...but for me someone like Dombrant has that x factor. He's a bruising physical carrier etc. Shields is just not a selectable option in my eyes. In all honesty someone like Simmonds offers more impact as a starter than Shields, and i would only consider him as a "finisher"

Front row. Is Mako fit? Will he be able to hit the heights. Im not sure. Jamie George..quality. Sinkler...potential to be the best prop in the tournament...or the villain by being a total prat...it feels these days that we're just waiting for a stupid moment.
After those...its just average meh. Marler doesnt know what he wants to do. Ellis Genge is way off Makos performance at his best at the moment.

Locks: All very goods locks but all so similar. All rounders. Is Itoje a lock or a 6. Saracens seem unsure now also.
Ewells?? Just dont get that one at all.
Wheres the 6'8, 20 stone jugernaughts. (I appreciate we dont have many in the prem at the moment.)

Back Row: Could be decent, but if Billy goes...wheres the explosive x factor? Who carries?

In the backs...wheres the fireworks if Cipriani doesnt go (and im not his biggest fan)

Can Ford create enough...and have a running threat?

Is Slade still a work in progress? Is Farrell good enough at 12? Or if he's at 10..can he create enough to win a world cup?? Im not sure.
Who is the back 3? May starts but who else. Daly is a trial i dont think is working. Its like he's being forced in because of his skill set. A square peg in a round hole.

Francis?? In the wilderness then brought back?? Meh.

Maybe im just being a grump...

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:57 am

You are a bit. This will be the best squad at the world cup bar none.

by Geordie Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:05 am

by Collapse2005 Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:06 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:You are a bit. This will be the best squad at the world cup bar none.

Kind of hard to disagree with. This is definitely the strongest England squad for 20 years.

by No 7&1/2 Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:39 am

Easily. We may underachieve cos, hell its sport. You may quibble with selections cos we all see the attributes we prefer sat on the bench etc but quality wise its class. For the first time in an age I'm not enviously looking at anyone's front second or back row. Doesn't mean I would take an England pack in a world 15 but does mean it hasn't got anyone where I'm going to shut my eyes and hope for the best when they're near the ball.

by Collapse2005 Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:52 am

I can see this England side making the final. They are definitely good enough to. One of maybe 2 or 3 teams that can beat everyone.

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