Pro14 is dead...

by No9 Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:03 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well we are nearing the end of the normal season and going into the knock out stages, and thanks to Premier Sports I can know say with confidence that my earlier prediction has materialised and the day has killed the Pro14.

They promised 1 game on FreeSports every week. Well unless you follow Zebre or the Kings you’ve not had that game. The Ospreys have not had one game shown on FreeSports. As for free to air coverage on S4C that has also been hit or miss, with them banning the red button English cometary, and again covering games with little interest.

So , since the conception of the league, this is the first season I’ve not been able to follow with interest. No (little) live coverage of games, no magazine show I’ve been able to watch to keep up with the league. I’ve managed to get to minimum Ospreys home games this season, due to family commitments. Basically, only rugby I’ve been able to follow has been the 6 Nations.

Thanks, Pro14, you played a stormer selling out. Enjoy the cash injection it brought, as it won’t last...

furious

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:07 am

LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum? Sad

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:10 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:11 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

by Eejit Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:15 am

I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:23 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:23 am

Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit. Rolling Eyes

by Eejit Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:24 am

Hey, remember when we disagreed on the Pro14 being good or not?

Man, those were the days.

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:25 am

Eejit wrote:Hey, remember when we disagreed on the Pro14 being good or not?

Man, those were the days.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Pro14 personally, well, maybe the officiating, but that's another debate.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:26 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

I'm not backtracking, I'm saying I didn't accuse him of slander. As I pointed out...you don't know what the word means

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:27 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit.

I didn't notice you calling out miaow yesterday for using insults. Did you ask the mods to deal with that?

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:28 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

I'm not backtracking, I'm saying I didn't accuse him of slander. As I pointed out...you don't know what the word means

I do know what it means thank you, and I have explained why I used it in a previous post, but you can hide behind this if you want.

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:30 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit.

I didn't notice you calling out miaow yesterday for using insults. Did you ask the mods to deal with that?

Where have I asked the MODS to deal with insults previously ?

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:30 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

I'm not backtracking, I'm saying I didn't accuse him of slander. As I pointed out...you don't know what the word means

I do know what it means thank you, and I have explained why I used it in a previous post, but you can hide behind this if you want.

You clearly don't

I accused him of making stuff up, I've repeated that and happy to stand behind it I never accused him of slander which you said I did

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit.

I didn't notice you calling out miaow yesterday for using insults. Did you ask the mods to deal with that?

Where have I asked the MODS to deal with insults previously ?

You repeatedly do it, you keep saying I'm getting away with something because you are actually incapable of dealing with your viewpoint being so easily pointed out as being built on sand

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:33 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit.

I didn't notice you calling out miaow yesterday for using insults. Did you ask the mods to deal with that?

Where have I asked the MODS to deal with insults previously ?

You repeatedly do it, you keep saying I'm getting away with something because you are actually incapable of dealing with your viewpoint being so easily pointed out as being built on sand

Show me where ?

I have only suggested the MODS deal with the fact you have accused somebody of making stories up. Now you are wriggling. I suggest you have 5 mins out, go and make yourself a cuppa, and come back on here when you have calmed down.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:35 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Eejit wrote:I hate cringe TV which is why I just can’t watch stuff like the Office and things like that. I have to leave the room.

Watching LD post on this thread is almost unbearable. He is like the 606 David Brent.

More insults, well done Eejit.

I didn't notice you calling out miaow yesterday for using insults. Did you ask the mods to deal with that?

Where have I asked the MODS to deal with insults previously ?

You repeatedly do it, you keep saying I'm getting away with something because you are actually incapable of dealing with your viewpoint being so easily pointed out as being built on sand

Show me where ?

I have only suggested the MODS deal with the fact you have accused somebody of making stories up. Now you are wriggling. I suggest you have 5 mins out, go and make yourself a cuppa, and come back on here when you have calmed down.

No Im good, I stand behind what I said and agree with Eejits description of you

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:37 am

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

I'm not backtracking, I'm saying I didn't accuse him of slander. As I pointed out...you don't know what the word means

I do know what it means thank you, and I have explained why I used it in a previous post, but you can hide behind this if you want.

You clearly don't

I accused him of making stuff up, I've repeated that and happy to stand behind it I never accused him of slander which you said I did

slander /ˈslɑːndə/ nounLAW 1. the action or crime of making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. "he is suing the TV company for slander" synonyms: defamation, defamation of character, character assassination, misrepresentation of character, calumny, libel; More wrote:

You are accusing Delme Parfitt of making a story up, hes has used spoken statements, from himself, and others, you are saying he is a liar, and you are standing by it, you are accusing him of slander.

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:42 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Libel then. The sentiment is still the same, perhaps this is something the MODS need to look at, although marty seems to always get a free pass on here.

But if you actually read the article, he has typed it in abbreviations so he is using the spoken word. So I will stick with slander.

So Im not allowed to give my opinion on a forum?

You could have said that you think it is made up. Not that it is made up. There's a difference.

And whats the difference then?

Saying that you think something is not you declaring what you are saying is matter of fact. You have accused a journalist from a national news outlet of making stuff up. Now you are backtracking.

I'm not backtracking, I'm saying I didn't accuse him of slander. As I pointed out...you don't know what the word means

I do know what it means thank you, and I have explained why I used it in a previous post, but you can hide behind this if you want.

You clearly don't

I accused him of making stuff up, I've repeated that and happy to stand behind it I never accused him of slander which you said I did

You are accusing Delme Parfitt of making a story up, hes has used spoken statements, from himself, and others, you are saying he is a liar, and you are standing by it, you are accusing him of slander.

Remember you advised me to take 5 mins, can I advise you to do the same and take your time and read it all and if after that you still can't see where you're going wrong then there's really no hope for you to stop embarrassing yourself

by tigertattie Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:55 am

Eejit wrote:I should add to my earlier post on relative successes in Scotland, “minus Edinburgh who are sucking the lifeblood out of Scottish rugby with their inability to do anything remotely right. They should be scrapped and replaced with the Border Reivers”.

8 out of 10 boxing

8 out of 10............ Hug

soon to be 9 out of 11 Yahoo

by SecretFly Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:58 am

I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

Nah, would be Armageddon if we all had to find a real world outlet for our argumentative nature's.

by tigertattie Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:02 pm

My office chair isnt comfy. Just saying..............

by SecretFly Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:14 pm

Blame your genes for that Tattie. Did I hear you correctly not too long ago describing yourself as a pretty big/tall man?

If I'm right then it's despicable that you'd attempt to blame a chair manufacturer for your big........

..I'll desist from a more detailed description lest The courts fill up with 606 libellers.

by Eejit Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:Blame your genes for that Tattie. Did I hear you correctly not too long ago describing yourself as a pretty big/tall man?

If I'm right then it's despicable that you'd attempt to blame a chair manufacturer for your big........

..I'll desist from a more detailed description lest The courts fill up with 606 libellers.

Tattie isn’t a tall man, he’s two regularly sized men stacked on top of one another wearing a trench coat.

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:19 pm

Sorry guys, I really do not want to get this place down, it's just that certain members on here really get to me on times.

And before you all say it, I know what animal I am on here. Very Happy

But when I say the Pro14 is dying a slow death in Wales, I do not say it with any glee, or any triumphant chest beating, I say it because it's true. I also believe, that the fact that the Pro14 took the money and ran, they have shortened their reach to the wider public in Wales.

Not many people will pay for the Pro14 in Wales.It remains to be seen whether Premier Sports has benefitted the league in Wales, but I can say, from this moment in time, it hasn't.

Premier Sports does not have a package to offer the people in Wales, if they had Premier league football as well, and perhaps golf, cricket, then yes people would be tempted.

I wonder how many people in Ireland would purchase EIR sports if the Premiership football was not included ? I cannot imagine many people would buy it just for the Pro14, but perhaps I'm wrong, and everyone would.

by carpet baboon Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:30 pm

So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
Regionalism
Pro14
Premier sports
refs
The Irish
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
Shane Williams retirement
Roger
The Welsh national team
The Irish
Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system
Still the Irish

Have I missed anything?

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:35 pm

carpet baboon wrote:So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
~~Regionalism~~
~~Pro14~~
Premier sports
refs
~~The Irish~~
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
~~Shane Williams retirement~~
Roger
~~The Welsh national team~~
~~The Irish~~
~~Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system~~
~~Still the Irish~~

Have I missed anything?

I have crossed out the nonsense but I am more than willing to discuss the other points. It's not all about Ireland mind.

by **RiscaGame** Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:39 pm

carpet baboon wrote:So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
Regionalism
Pro14
Premier sports
refs
The Irish
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
Shane Williams retirement
Roger
The Welsh national team
The Irish
Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system
Still the Irish

Have I missed anything?

Budgets
The Irish.

by Eejit Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:52 pm

Well it’s a shame to lose you but now that a poster here has definitively resolved that the Pro14 isn’t working for Wales how about:

Conference A:
Leinster
Connacht
Ulster
Munster
Glasgow
Edinburgh (Border Reivers)
Zebre
Treviso

Conference B:
Cheetahs
Kings
Bulls
Lions
Stormers
Sharks
Pumas
Griquas.

Does that work for everyone?

by Guest Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:03 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I have no idea. Seems like people want everything else their way in Wales, so why not?

I think the answer is 'no'. No one is turning off the rugby because it's not in HD.

by SecretFly Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:17 pm

Non HD sport in this day, age and millennium is a joke though. Watching sport in non-HD is like looking at replays from the Seventies. Everything looks to be shrouded in gloomy NH moisture - even on sunny days.
Non-HD providers should be boycotted. So add that to the list of things bringing down rugby in Wales.

Boycotting.

by tigertattie Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:Blame your genes for that Tattie. Did I hear you correctly not too long ago describing yourself as a pretty big/tall man?

If I'm right then it's despicable that you'd attempt to blame a chair manufacturer for your big........ Buldge

..I'll desist from a more detailed description lest The courts fill up with 606 libellers.

Fixed that for you sir.

And for all you dirty minded fellows, the buldge is not as in Linford Christie's lunchbox, but a buldge in a disc in my back

PS, I'm not 12 little men in a trench coat, I was getting funny looks for that so now I wear a tweed jacket so I can fit in at Murrayfield

by Guest Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:27 pm

In terms of following the conferences (ignoring the rest of the discussion) one thing that is massively alienating is the fact the league changes relatively frequently.

To go from the Celtic League/Magners (which I thought was the best era as a competition, 4 + 4 + 2/3) to adding the Italians and becoming the RaboPro12. At some point it went from a straight up leage to a play-off system, then the European qualification changed as well, all to make it more interesting/'fair' on the English teams, to keep it competitive. Then the European qualification changed AGAIN, Wales lost the Anglo-Welsh Cup (which was seen as a decent competition during the Magners era, before becoming a development comp as the demands of modern rugby increased, and fans on both sides loved the rivalry, hence the push towards joining the Aviva a few years ago), and as the gap increased between the regional game and the old club game - which was the former lifeblood of Welsh rugby and the one most fans supported due to lengthy and genuine communal/geographic identification - the regions introduced the A league, effectively signalling the death knell for the Welsh Premiership as a competition with any sort of legitimacy as a competitive league.

***The Welsh Premiership has also seen COUNTLESS reorganisations in the last 10 years: with numbers increased, decreased, increased again, then decreased etc, play off systems introduced, different laws trialled in them. All to try and stop the rot which is inevitable/exacerbated by the fact the WRU doesn't care about it as it will always, always prioritise Team Wales, even if that means (mis)managing the decline of the club game. So now the second tier is the A league, which just about no-one I know follows or shows even a passing interest in, as it's basically the reserve league. Talking about the comparisons between the Pro14 and Super Rugby, consider this: the Welsh Premiership is the equivalent of the Mitre 10. Or the English Championship. Or even in football, the English Championship as opposed to the Premier League. Wales' second best tier is now, effectively, the Premier League u23s/reserve league (whatever it's now called). Played behind closed doors, a way of getting injured players game time, and some youngsters etc. The Welsh Premiership is effectively the conference and below with literally NO other leagues in between: it's semi-pro, a core support group, lots of history, but really not much likelihood of players ever bridging the gap between that league and the regions. That's a Welsh issue, for sure, but it's not HELPED by the Pro14 constantly reorganising, which I'll come back to now.***

The Pro14 has suffered as, increasingly, teams had to play weaker squads in select fixtures - not helped with league games being played during international periods. It does make it hard to follow with any momentum when your 'big' games are followed by 3 or 4 or more weeks of rotating due to European Cup prep and then the international window. It's not like 'every game counts' because, well, it doesn't.

Then the league decided to invite the South Africans, and it split the already slightly meaningless 12 team league into a MUCH more meaningless/confusing conference system with 7 teams in each. Any motivation for, say, the Dragons to avoid finishing below Zebre or Kings is almost obsolete in a conference system. There isn't the same sense of jeopardy, nor the same sense of hierarchy, because you're 'sort-of-but-not-really' competing against the opposite conference.

With the prospect/likelihood of the league changing again in the next 2 years - whether that's American involvement, more South Africans, who knows where it might go - it's hard/pointless for longer term fans to really get behind and get stuck in to the specifics of the conference system. So although that Thai restaurant anecdote isn't the best evidence in all of this, and of course it's very easy to just look it up and remember which conference is which, who you're competing against, I can see why apathy would set it. PARTICULARLY if you're a Dragons fan - they've been genuinely non-competitive for years. Close to a decade now, really. In league table terms, there's not been much point in them following it since at least 2012, I'd say. But more than that, if it's going to change again, why learn it? Why understand the system only to have it torn up again as more teams are added to it, when the standard and competitiveness of your team is also in decline, and when there are real question marks hanging over the future and lifeblood of the game itself.

It seems such an obvious point that people don't get? If you're constantly changing, you have no identity for fans to identify with.

by Guest Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:Non HD sport in this day, age and millennium is a joke though. Watching sport in non-HD is like looking at replays from the Seventies. Everything looks to be shrouded in gloomy NH moisture - even on sunny days.
Non-HD providers should be boycotted. So add that to the list of things bringing down rugby in Wales.

Boycotting.

Watching sport in HD is creepy and nauseating. It feels like watching TV in TV shops, where all the levels are off and it's uncomfortable to watch. The ball doesn't flow 'naturally' in terms of the way the eye perceives it either when you're playing, or as a fan in the stands. Everything is too sharp - but even then, I wouldn't turn it off if it was in HD.

by **LondonTiger** Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:39 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
Regionalism
Pro14
Premier sports
refs
The Irish
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
Shane Williams retirement
Roger
The Welsh national team
The Irish
Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system
Still the Irish

Have I missed anything?

Budgets
The Irish.

I cannot believe PRL have yet to be mentioned. Oh and the Irish?

Run

by Guest Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to buy a carpet for the last hour but the shop owner’s too busy tapping furiously at his computer with angry sounds coming from his mouth!

by BamBam Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:47 pm

by LordDowlais Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:52 pm

The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to buy a carpet for the last hour but the shop owner’s too busy tapping furiously at his computer with angry sounds coming from his mouth!

Grow up you prat.

by carpet baboon Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:55 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
Regionalism
Pro14
Premier sports
refs
The Irish
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
Shane Williams retirement
Roger
The Welsh national team
The Irish
Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system
Still the Irish

Have I missed anything?

Budgets
The Irish.

I cannot believe PRL have yet to be mentioned. Oh and the Irish?

Nah they won't blame the PRL, they still hold out hope of getting the invite.
And yeah the irish

by No9 Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:58 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hi pie, I could not agree more with you. The thing is, outside of the Pro14 enthusiasts, the Pro14 is dead. Especially in Wales. The thing is, football is number one, and people will pay for SKY to watch it, they will not pay for both football and rugby.

What has this done ? Well, it's killed off any potential new fans. Anywhere outside of Newport, Llanelli, Swansea and Cardiff, the Pro14 is dead. But there are a lot of enthusiasts on here that will try and tell you different, Oracle, Risca, Phil, they are all talking nonsense.

Yes it is a good deal on Prem Sports, but people will not pay for it, and I have been saying this since day one, taking the Pro14 off free to air TV will end up being a disaster for the league, and I will honestly say as well, people should enjoy the current national team now whilst it lasts, as this will more than likely be the last one that can achive what it is at the moment.

It is already being spoken about in the Welsh media how damaging the pay per view is for the league.

The PRO14 is an invisible, convoluted mess that most people simply don't care about

The future of Welsh rugby doesn't look too bright in the PRO14

It was at a dinner table in a Cardiff Thai restaurant earlier this week that the message struck home more powerfully than for some time.

There we were, a bunch of rugby enthusiasts, discussing various issues affecting the game, when I issued my pals with a starter for 10.

"Which of the two Guinness PRO14 conferences do the four Welsh regions play in? Conference A or Conference B?"

An immediate bout of conferring ensued, but despite a variety of responses being thrown my way all five friends were forced into a resigned admission.

These were guesses. In terms of knowing the correct answer with any degree of certainty, not one of them had the faintest beginnings of an inkling of an idea.

Disturbingly, they will be far from alone.

Regional diehards will snort derision, but such derision merely underlines the point: the PRO14 is arguably less a part of the Welsh public's general sporting consciousness than at any time since the old club system was done away with in 2003 to usher in the brave new world of Welsh-Scottish-Irish-Italian combat.

And without an appeal to a more casual consumer base, its hard to see anything changing.

Over and above the stagnation - or decline - in match attendance here, data to underline the pervading sense of apathy is scarce.

Broadcaster Premier Sports recently declared subscriptions had exceeded their expectations, but such sweeping statements have little currency. Viewing figures since the paid-for channel took over coverage of the Guinness-backed tournament have been conspicuous by their absence. In fact, several requests for them by this organisation have proved fruitless.

Why? Is it because the unpalatable reality is that Guinness PRO14 rugby has become more invisible than ever since the bulk of it was removed from free-to-air TV?

Nobody disputes that the extra revenue on offer from Premier Sports was of huge importance to the regions, but if nobody's talking about what they're doing that revenue will soon start to drip away in more insidious streams.

After five months of bedding in, it is now difficult to argue that Premier Sports is not a reasonably safe pair of hands, despite one or two teething problems in the commentary box.

That shouldn't be a surprise because, let's face it, they've recruited so many who used to be involved with the BBC Scrum V programme. But how many are watching?

There are those who are adamant that the £10-a-month fee is worth every penny. Many more refuse point blank to pay yet another broadcaster for the privilege of watching rugby in their living rooms, especially when they don't particularly rate the product.

Furthermore, what you can't do, for the most part, is meet your mates down the pub to watch the game.

S4C have limited rights, sure. There's also the odd match on FreeSports if Southern Kings v Connacht takes your fancy.

But, for example, walking into your local over the Christmas period to watch the Welsh derby games wasn't an option in some towns. Not mine at any rate.

Doubtless there is the odd exception, but plenty of pubs simply don't screen Premier Sports. Who can blame them when it already costs thousands to provide Sky and BT?

Late last month, on a Friday night, Glasgow and the Ospreys played out a 9-3 affair at Scotstoun and the Scarlets went down 22-17 to Leinster in Dublin in what was a far perkier encounter.

While those two games were tucked behind a subscription paywall, Arsenal were playing Manchester United in the fourth round of the FA Cup on BBC One.

Given the mass appeal of what was happening at the Emirates Stadium, I would be surprised if the Welsh television audience for the rugby ran into four figures.

The PRO14, and all of its previous guises, has, and has always had, an image problem. It has always been given short shrift by UK national newspaper sports desks who don't regard it worthy of allocating a proper resource.

The introduction of South African teams, the move to two Conferences and the greater jeopardy introduced around qualification for the Champions Cup were all supposed to address that.

I am deeply unconvinced about whether, in terms of the PRO14 appeal in Wales, any of the above have come close to having the desired effect.

The conference system has just made following how the competition is unfolding more convoluted. The presence of the South Africans? It's neither here nor there. The Kings and the Cheetahs certainly don't boost turnstile revenue, so why should they be having any tangible impact on armchair watchers?

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pro14-invisible-convoluted-mess-most-15736120

Spot on... well the fact that Premier has dealt the killing blow to the Pro14.

by **RiscaGame** Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:59 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:So a list of things killing rugby in Wales:
Regionalism
Pro14
Premier sports
refs
The Irish
No valleys team
No team in North Wales
Shane Williams retirement
Roger
The Welsh national team
The Irish
Fans not being able to grasp a simple conference system
Still the Irish

Have I missed anything?

Budgets
The Irish.

I cannot believe PRL have yet to be mentioned. Oh and the Irish?

Great point, apologies.

by Guest Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to buy a carpet for the last hour but the shop owner’s too busy tapping furiously at his computer with angry sounds coming from his mouth!

Grow up you prat.

All I wanted was some shag pile Sad

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
But when I say the Pro14 is dying a slow death in Wales, I do not say it with any glee, or any triumphant chest beating, I say it because it's true. I also believe, that the fact that the Pro14 took the money and ran, they have shortened their reach to the wider public in Wales.

And by what metric is the league dying because going by attendances only Ospreys have seen a big fall in the last few years and while Scarlets are down on last year it's still up on two years ago. There are tortoises who die quicker than the Pro14 in Wales at the rate it's going

by **RiscaGame** Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:04 pm

If in doubt, revert to Thai restaurant story.

I have re-read it, as it was hard to tell where Dowlais' post ended and Delme's "story" started from the post on here.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pro14-invisible-convoluted-mess-most-15736120

by No9 Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:15 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I’m pretty sure Scrum V’s coverage of the Welsh pro teams was never in HD.

It was on BBC2 Wales HD.. available on a Sky Box, not sure if it is on a Freeview box/TV.

by **RiscaGame** Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:23 pm

Hmmmmmmmm,

https://www.a516digital.com/2018/06/bbc-two-wales-to-go-hd.html

The broadcaster has announced that BBC Two Wales will launch in HD later this year - enabling BBC Wales to deliver all its programming in HD for the first time. The exact launch date is to be confirmed. BBC Two Wales HD will be available on Freeview HD, YouView and the BBC iPlayer.8 Jun 2018

by SecretFly Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:31 pm

More HD to speed up the game, make the ball appear to go quicker, add identifiable faces that we can prove turned up to support their teams (ban the non attenders.... if that's doable in logic terms).

by BamBam Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to buy a carpet for the last hour but the shop owner’s too busy tapping furiously at his computer with angry sounds coming from his mouth!

Grow up you prat.

Remind me which esteemed member on here was whining about insults not long ago

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:47 pm

Pro 12/14 Welsh Attendances (minus Judgement Day)

Cardiff
2016/17 69772 (Avg. 6977)
2017/18 63154 (Avg. 6315)
2018/19 66237 (Avg. 7360)

Dragons
2016/17 46443 (Avg. 4644)
2017/18 51615 (Avg. 5162)
2018/19 46111 (Avg. 5123)

Ospreys
2016/17 91303 (Avg. 9130)
2017/18 69937 (Avg. 6994)
2018/19 69814 (Avg. 6981)

Scarlets
2016/17 65776 (Avg. 6578)
2017/18 91880 (Avg. 9188)
2018/19 84521 (Avg. 8452)

by marty2086 Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:47 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I now think that if we banned rugby entirely and especially banned 606 rugby section, we might very well have renewed peace in the world.

It's on record that rugby followers truly do talk/type the most. And really, genuinely, we do talk an awful lot of hot air and crap....just to have reasons to keep talking. And Always the world and his mother and all the ills of society, politics, pestilence, finance, corruption and deceit are dragged in to the merest illegal glance of player upon player.

We have a lot to answer for. Too many comfortable pen pushers with easy access to social media and comfy office chairs as the real workers, the factory line operatives, try to sweat more to get their miserable bonuses whilst listening to crap piped music.....

Tell me about it. I’ve been trying to buy a carpet for the last hour but the shop owner’s too busy tapping furiously at his computer with angry sounds coming from his mouth!

Grow up you prat.

Remind me which esteemed member on here was whining about insults not long ago

Sure the mods always let him away with these things Whistle

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