Pro14 is dead...

Collapse2005 wrote:No idea why anyone would want to join a league with the cloven hooved English anyway. Money isn't everything.

LondonTiger wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:No idea why anyone would want to join a league with the cloven hooved English anyway. Money isn't everything.

And on that note I will leave this conversation.

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

Yet you can never offer anything to back it up

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

Yet you can never offer anything to back it up

I have, I put an article from the national newspaper of Wales, which you have dismissed as a lie.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

Yet you can never offer anything to back it up

I have, I put an article from the national newspaper of Wales, which you have dismissed as a lie.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

Yet you can never offer anything to back it up

I have, I put an article from the national newspaper of Wales, which you have dismissed as a lie.

Posting an opinion piece which happens to be the same opinion you hold doesn't prove your opinion is right

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

If the Welsh regions join the Championship would that bring Welsh rugby under the jurisdiction of the RFU as they run the league?

Yes mate. They would control all of welsh rugby and have all the grand slams we've ever had too. And Gavin Henson would be English.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

One thing you are wrong about. The Pro14 is not thriving in Wales. Just because members like Oracle say it is, it does not mean it's true. I can honestly tell you, the one thing the Pro14 is not doing in Wales is thriving.

Yet you can never offer anything to back it up

I have, I put an article from the national newspaper of Wales, which you have dismissed as a lie.

Posting an opinion piece which happens to be the same opinion you hold doesn't prove your opinion is right

Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

Also, if you are so clued up with the goings on in my country, why don't you prove me wrong ?

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

LordDowlais wrote:Typical, you dismiss any evidence given that does not go along with your rhetoric. It's pointless even debating with you.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Typical, you dismiss any evidence given that does not go along with your rhetoric. It's pointless even debating with you.

Where did I dismiss it?

I pointed out someone having the same opinion doesn't equal fact, I'm simply asking where the facts are figures are to show that the league is dying off in Wales

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

I voted to remain.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Typical, you dismiss any evidence given that does not go along with your rhetoric. It's pointless even debating with you.

Where did I dismiss it?

I pointed out someone having the same opinion doesn't equal fact, I'm simply asking where the facts are figures are to show that the league is dying off in Wales

Why would you need figures ?

I have tried to get the viewing figures but for what ever reason, Premier Sports do not make them available. Perhaps I should be checking EIR sports.

LondonTiger wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Eejit wrote:The Pro14 isn’t dead, nowhere close. The negative comments are a series of embarrassing whinges from the usual suspects.

I'm glad you are so clued up by whats going on in a country you do not even reside in, never mind been two recently.

If the original post stated that Pro14 was dead in Wales there might be some validity, but it did not. Pro14 appears to be thriving in the majority of countries that participate thus anyone simply stating "Pro14 is Dead" seems to be incorrect.

miaow wrote:Wouldn't say the majority.

2/3 maybe...

Ireland certainly, Scotland is growing.

Wales it's declining, Italy is anything but thriving, and SA is very much an afterthought/let's wait to see what happens situation for their teams, players, coaches, fans etc.

miaow wrote:I suppose you could call SA cleaving off 2 Super Rugby teams an improvement as they've gone from zero to 'something' in terms of Pro14 representation. But think that's being a bit 'hopeful', shall we say. I'm not really sure if Edinburgh are thriving, are they? Let's see how the move to a proper stadium goes for them/if Cockerill leaves, what happens. Zebre are still useless, Treviso decent but I don't know if their crowds are improving? Steady, by the looks of things, but I'll give you that one - they've done well on the whole given the circumstances they've been handed since joining. Just need to bring through some more old school Italian beef and focus less on converting SH players.

I'd like for the Pro14 to work, genuinely. I like the concept of a pan-European league. I really liked the Celtic League, thought it worked well, but this is just messy. I'm not sure how sustainable/realistic having the Saffers is, tbh. It feels like the point the league jumped the shark.

There are Welsh-specific problems for the regions/Welsh rugby in general: history and culture, wealth within the gen. population, desire and engagement from youth levels etc. That impacts on attendance. There's the issues with ownership, the likes of Cuddy and Peter Thomas being priced out of the game and no-one willing to step in (because it's a money-drainer). Obviously Union v Club issues...all sorts of things Wales needs to sort out. Some Welsh people will blame these problems on anything and everything - including the Irish. So be it, think most people are able to take them/that opinion with a fistful of salt.

But then there are genuine issues with the league. Shocking refereeing. Irish-favouring refereeing (different, if conjoined, issues). TMO work is arbitrary/outright biased sometimes, or sometimes non-existent (this was certainly the case last season, hopefully an end to this is one good thing to come from the TV contracts, but I'm not sure?). The 'flabby' nature of the league. The alienating conference system. The lack of stability: the league structure has changed dramatically every few years for the last decade, and we're surely facing another one soon. The travel to Italy/SA - not just for fans. It's an expensive thing for the clubs to do: the smaller clubs get hit harder here (so the Italians suffer the most!). The general lack of jeopardy for Dragons and Zebre to sort themselves out - by extension, the huge discrepancy between one of the top 3 club teams in the world, arguably the best, and the worst teams in the league. Playing during international windows. TV dictating a change in traditional scheduling. I could go on and on but we've covered this territory.

For any further discussion on this thread, if it's talking about Wales then it's probably good to keep these two topics separate as much as possible. Otherwise you get the Irish crowin about how Wales just aren't 'arsed' and the Welsh responding by complaining about how much more money is in tax-haven Dublin. Not very productive.

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

I voted to remain.

Didn't say you personally voted to leave, more a comment on "if its in the news it must be true"

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

miaow wrote:I suppose you could call SA cleaving off 2 Super Rugby teams an improvement as they've gone from zero to 'something' in terms of Pro14 representation. But think that's being a bit 'hopeful', shall we say. I'm not really sure if Edinburgh are thriving, are they? Let's see how the move to a proper stadium goes for them/if Cockerill leaves, what happens. Zebre are still useless, Treviso decent but I don't know if their crowds are improving? Steady, by the looks of things, but I'll give you that one - they've done well on the whole given the circumstances they've been handed since joining. Just need to bring through some more old school Italian beef and focus less on converting SH players.

I'd like for the Pro14 to work, genuinely. I like the concept of a pan-European league. I really liked the Celtic League, thought it worked well, but this is just messy. I'm not sure how sustainable/realistic having the Saffers is, tbh. It feels like the point the league jumped the shark.

There are Welsh-specific problems for the regions/Welsh rugby in general: history and culture, wealth within the gen. population, desire and engagement from youth levels etc. That impacts on attendance. There's the issues with ownership, the likes of Cuddy and Peter Thomas being priced out of the game and no-one willing to step in (because it's a money-drainer). Obviously Union v Club issues...all sorts of things Wales needs to sort out. Some Welsh people will blame these problems on anything and everything - including the Irish. So be it, think most people are able to take them/that opinion with a fistful of salt.

But then there are genuine issues with the league. Shocking refereeing. Irish-favouring refereeing (different, if conjoined, issues). TMO work is arbitrary/outright biased sometimes, or sometimes non-existent (this was certainly the case last season, hopefully an end to this is one good thing to come from the TV contracts, but I'm not sure?). The 'flabby' nature of the league. The alienating conference system. The lack of stability: the league structure has changed dramatically every few years for the last decade, and we're surely facing another one soon. The travel to Italy/SA - not just for fans. It's an expensive thing for the clubs to do: the smaller clubs get hit harder here (so the Italians suffer the most!). The general lack of jeopardy for Dragons and Zebre to sort themselves out - by extension, the huge discrepancy between one of the top 3 club teams in the world, arguably the best, and the worst teams in the league. Playing during international windows. TV dictating a change in traditional scheduling. I could go on and on but we've covered this territory.

For any further discussion on this thread, if it's talking about Wales then it's probably good to keep these two topics separate as much as possible. Otherwise you get the Irish crowin about how Wales just aren't 'arsed' and the Welsh responding by complaining about how much more money is in tax-haven Dublin. Not very productive.

Benetton sold out their last 2 home games, which bodes well for them. Zebre showed signs of improvement last season but have been a disaster this season for some reason.

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

I voted to remain.

Didn't say you personally voted to leave, more a comment on "if its in the news it must be true"

Nope I didn't. But you still manage to be constantly tiresome on here.

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

I voted to remain.

Didn't say you personally voted to leave, more a comment on "if its in the news it must be true"

Nope I didn't. But you still manage to be constantly tiresome on here.

Any sign of anything to show the leagues dying in Wales or do you just want to repost the WOL article again?

marty2086 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

BamBam wrote:

LordDowlais wrote: Why would it be in the national news if it did not ring true though ?

This is why the easily duped voted for Brexit

I voted to remain.

Didn't say you personally voted to leave, more a comment on "if its in the news it must be true"

Nope I didn't. But you still manage to be constantly tiresome on here.

Any sign of anything to show the leagues dying in Wales or do you just want to repost the WOL article again?

No 7&1/2 wrote:A know a group of people who used to be man United fans. They stopped going to the matches annoyed by the Glazers and the move towards a money driven business. Funny I know for man u fans. The now support fc united. I submit this as proof the premiership is dying.

LordDowlais wrote:

marty, I am not your personal secretary, I am not getting any info for you, I have told you, if you want to prove me wrong, find the evidence yourself, as no matter what I put on here, you will just dismiss it anyway.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It was Roy keanes fault for pointing out the prawn sandwiches. Always the Irish letting the side down.

Q: But what would you then say about an incident like the disallowing of Jason Harries’ try for Cardiff Blues against Connacht last month?

A: Look, to be perfectly blunt, the decision was wrong.

It was a try. We, as a tournament, got that wrong.

It’s very easy for people to see that on TV and go ‘We can all see that is a try, how can the officials not get that right?’

I spent most of last week going through the question why we got that wrong.

What we found is it wasn’t actually one individual’s fault or one thing, it was just a culmination of different things that happened on the day.

For a start, there was the weather. I’m not trying to make excuses here, but the weather meant the big TV screen at the ground couldn’t get raised to its full height for health and safety reasons.

We have then got the officials trying to look at the screen, where it’s behind the crowd and they couldn’t see it clearly.

There weren’t monitors at the side of the pitch, which we will look to rectify moving forward for the future.

There was a bit of confusion in the van. I’m not sure the TMO viewed the real killer footage.

With the sideline view and the two end-on views he saw, the footage was inconclusive.

He then asked the broadcasters if they had any additional angles to show him and they said no, which they hadn’t.

But there was some high definition footage which showed it was clearly a try, For whatever reason, the TMO didn’t see that footage.

I don’t think that was anybody’s fault because it was there for the broadcasters.

The conclusive view which would have delivered the right decision wasn’t available to the TMO.

Unfortunately, we did get it wrong.

It’s now a question of working with the match officials, broadcasters and the grounds to make sure that never happens again.

LondonTiger wrote:Fan: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.
(The Corrupt League Official does not respond.)
 
Fan: 'Ello, Miss?
 
Corrupt League Official: What do you mean "miss"?
 
Fan: (pause)I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
 
Corrupt League Official: We're closin' for the summer.
 
Fan: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this league what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
 
Corrupt League Official: Oh yes, the, uh, the Pro14...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
 
Fan: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. its dead, that's what's wrong with it!
 
Corrupt League Official: No, no, its uh,...he's resting.
 
Fan: Look, matey, I know a dead league when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
 
Corrupt League Official: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable league, the Pro14, idn'it, ay? Beautiful TV coverage!
 
Fan: The coverage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
 
Corrupt League Official: Nononono, no, no! its resting!
 
Fan: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the TV) 'Ello, Mister Pro14 League! I've got a lovely fresh subscriber for you if you show...
 
(Corrupt League Official hits the TV)
 
Corrupt League Official: There, he moved!
 
Fan: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the TV!
 
Corrupt League Official: I never!!
 
Fan: Yes, you did!
 
Corrupt League Official: I never, never did anything...
 
Fan: (yelling and hitting the TV repeatedly) 'ELLO Pro14!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!
 
(Takes league out of the TV and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)
 
Fan: Now that's what I call a dead league.
 
Corrupt League Official: No, no.....No, its stunned!
 
Fan: STUNNED?!?
 
Corrupt League Official: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major.
 
Fan: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That league is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a long season.
 
Corrupt League Official: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the 6Ns.
 
Fan: PININ' for the 6NS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?
 
Corrupt League Official: The Pro14 prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable league, id'nit, squire? Lovely coverage!
 
Fan: Look, I took the liberty of examining that league when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been NAILED there.
 
(pause)
 
Corrupt League Official: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that league down, it would have nuzzled up to that screen,  and VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
 
Fan: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this league wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! its bleedin' demised!
 
Corrupt League Official: No no! its pining!
 
Fan: its not pinin'! its passed on! This league is no more! He has ceased to be! its expired and gone to meet 'is maker! its a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch itd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! its off the twig! its kicked the bucket, its shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-LEAGUE!!
 
(pause)
 
Corrupt League Official: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of leagues.
 
Fan: I see. I see, I get the picture.
 
Corrupt League Official: (pause) I got a cup.
 
(pause)
 
Fan: Pray, does it guarantee 10 home matches?
 
Corrupt League Official: Nnnnot really.
 
Fan: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
 
Corrupt League Official: Look, if you go to my brother's league in England, he'll replace the league for you.
 
Fan: England, eh? Very well.

RugbyFan100 wrote:What we found is it wasn’t actually one individual’s fault or one thing, it was just a culmination of different things that happened on the day.

miaow wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:What we found is it wasn’t actually one individual’s fault or one thing, it was just a culmination of different things that happened on the day.

When they finally do cremate the beast with CVC's backing, I can only assume this is what will be written on their gravestones.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

miaow wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:What we found is it wasn’t actually one individual’s fault or one thing, it was just a culmination of different things that happened on the day.

When they finally do cremate the beast with CVC's backing, I can only assume this is what will be written on their gravestones.

I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.  That sentence sums up the Pro14, together with :

"For whatever reason, the TMO didn’t see that footage."

What reason Greg?

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

miaow wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:What we found is it wasn’t actually one individual’s fault or one thing, it was just a culmination of different things that happened on the day.

When they finally do cremate the beast with CVC's backing, I can only assume this is what will be written on their gravestones.

I just hope it happens sooner rather than later.  That sentence sums up the Pro14, together with :

"For whatever reason, the TMO didn’t see that footage."

What reason Greg?

If you read the article he actually says it but why would you want the answer to that

LordDowlais wrote:Also, if you are so clued up with the goings on in my country, why don't you prove me wrong ?

miaow wrote:Seem to remember Scotland coming back from 31-0 VERY recently. Should the referee have stepped in halfway through the comeback?

"Sorry boys, you played really poorly in the first half - we're just going to go upstairs and rule out Finn Russell's try for...errrr...being anti-English. Yeah. That's it. Penalty to white on halfway...!!"

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Seem to remember Scotland coming back from 31-0 VERY recently. Should the referee have stepped in halfway through the comeback?

"Sorry boys, you played really poorly in the first half - we're just going to go upstairs and rule out Finn Russell's try for...errrr...being anti-English. Yeah. That's it. Penalty to white on halfway...!!"

Pretty sure that isn't what was said but if Scotland hadn't given England a head start they would have likely won the game. Showing up half way through can put you at a disadvantage

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