Pro14 is dead...

First topic message reminder :

Well we are nearing the end of the normal season and going into the knock out stages, and thanks to Premier Sports I can know say with confidence that my earlier prediction has materialised and the day has killed the Pro14.

They promised 1 game on FreeSports every week. Well unless you follow Zebre or the Kings you’ve not had that game. The Ospreys have not had one game shown on FreeSports. As for free to air coverage on S4C that has also been hit or miss, with them banning the red button English cometary, and again covering games with little interest.

So , since the conception of the league, this is the first season I’ve not been able to follow with interest. No (little) live coverage of games, no magazine show I’ve been able to watch to keep up with the league. I’ve managed to get to minimum Ospreys home games this season, due to family commitments. Basically, only rugby I’ve been able to follow has been the 6 Nations.

Thanks, Pro14, you played a stormer selling out. Enjoy the cash injection it brought, as it won’t last...

It's a puff piece because they are celebrating overachieving?

I mean it's not like this is important for Pro14 to do, to hype up it's ability to boost broadcasters and brands and generate more revenue for itself and the teams

I'm following this thread like Mrs Pete330v2 follows her soaps. She knows it's utter tripe but she cannot stop checking in for the next episode.

Their typical viewing figures are obviously significantly lower than 35,000, the number they're happy sharing when the game goes free to air.

'Overachieving'. That's a classic case of business newspeak. Overachieving compared to what?

Not sure why press releases are now considered relevant. I'll pay a PR company to write about how great my is and how it's overachieving, with viewing figures far exceeding what was anticipated at the beginning of the year. Shall I...? Or shall we just leave the PR to every other facet of social media where it has wriggled its way in to the point it's treated as 'fact'?

miaow wrote:Their typical viewing figures are obviously significantly lower than 35,000, the number they're happy sharing when the game goes free to air.

'Overachieving'. That's a classic case of business newspeak. Overachieving compared to what?

Not sure why press releases are now considered relevant. I'll pay a PR company to write about how great my is and how it's overachieving, with viewing figures far exceeding what was anticipated at the beginning of the year. Shall I...? Or shall we just leave the PR to every other facet of social media where it has wriggled its way in to the point it's treated as 'fact'?

I love the way Prem sports / pro14:

1) Have quoted the viewing figures for the free channel.
2) Have refused to release figures for their paid channels
3) Claimed subscriptions are well above target (their target might have been 50 subscriptions)
4) Claimed the pro14 has delivered "Record subscriptions" to premier sports. Nothing to do with Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus being on prem sports.

Why? Just because you disagree with it?

It's a form of communication, a way of drawing attention to things without having to cold call

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that those involved are happy with the results and pronouncing so publicly

RugbyFan100 wrote:

miaow wrote:Their typical viewing figures are obviously significantly lower than 35,000, the number they're happy sharing when the game goes free to air.

'Overachieving'. That's a classic case of business newspeak. Overachieving compared to what?

Not sure why press releases are now considered relevant. I'll pay a PR company to write about how great my is and how it's overachieving, with viewing figures far exceeding what was anticipated at the beginning of the year. Shall I...? Or shall we just leave the PR to every other facet of social media where it has wriggled its way in to the point it's treated as 'fact'?

I love the way Prem sports / pro14:

1) Have quoted the viewing figures for the free channel.
2) Have refused to release figures for their paid channels
3) Claimed subscriptions are well above target (their target might have been 50 subscriptions)
4) Claimed the pro14 has delivered "Record subscriptions" to premier sports. Nothing to do with Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus being on prem sports.

Who exactly has asked them for the figures for the to refuse? And they announced that subscriptions were over their target prior to acquiring La Liga rights

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

So to be clear you would be happy for your regions to join the second rung of English rugby, with no prospect of getting into the ringfenced prem? No European tournament and pretty much all your top stars leaving and your regions playing against mainly semi professional clubs?
And you think that would be better?

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

So to be clear you would be happy for your regions to join the second rung of English rugby, with no prospect of getting into the ringfenced prem? No European tournament and pretty much all your top stars leaving and your regions playing against mainly semi professional clubs?
And you think that would be better?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Anything is worth the risk at this point, the pro14 is so unbearable.

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

So to be clear you would be happy for your regions to join the second rung of English rugby, with no prospect of getting into the ringfenced prem? No European tournament and pretty much all your top stars leaving and your regions playing against mainly semi professional clubs?
And you think that would be better?

With English officials half the time as there would be no neutral option

marty2086 wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

miaow wrote:Their typical viewing figures are obviously significantly lower than 35,000, the number they're happy sharing when the game goes free to air.

'Overachieving'. That's a classic case of business newspeak. Overachieving compared to what?

Not sure why press releases are now considered relevant. I'll pay a PR company to write about how great my is and how it's overachieving, with viewing figures far exceeding what was anticipated at the beginning of the year. Shall I...? Or shall we just leave the PR to every other facet of social media where it has wriggled its way in to the point it's treated as 'fact'?

I love the way Prem sports / pro14:

1) Have quoted the viewing figures for the free channel.
2) Have refused to release figures for their paid channels
3) Claimed subscriptions are well above target (their target might have been 50 subscriptions)
4) Claimed the pro14 has delivered "Record subscriptions" to premier sports. Nothing to do with Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus being on prem sports.

Who exactly has asked them for the figures for the to refuse? And they announced that subscriptions were over their target prior to acquiring La Liga rights

marty2086 wrote:Why? Just because you disagree with it?

It's a form of communication, a way of drawing attention to things without having to cold call

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that those involved are happy with the results and pronouncing so publicly

I bet you watch adverts in your spare time as well.

Garner says in the article :

We can get around the cost. It’s availability.

The question posed to the Unions is can they provide personnel to be TMOs who are going to be available to travel 15 weeks of the year.

Yet they made a big fanfare a couple of seasons back when they announced there was to be neutral TMOs (due to a number of incidents):

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Just another in the ling line of logistical nightmares that makes the league a joke.

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Why? Just because you disagree with it?

It's a form of communication, a way of drawing attention to things without having to cold call

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that those involved are happy with the results and pronouncing so publicly

I bet you watch adverts in your spare time as well.

So you'd rather they didn't hype up the league and promote the success it could bring to companies?

It's almost like you're willing it to fail and would rather the likes of the regions continue to struggle financially rather than someone trying to generate added revenue

RugbyFan100 wrote:Garner says in the article :

We can get around the cost. It’s availability.

The question posed to the Unions is can they provide personnel to be TMOs who are going to be available to travel 15 weeks of the year.

Yet they made a big fanfare a couple of seasons back when they announced there was to be neutral TMOs (due to a number of incidents):

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

Just another in the ling line of logistical nightmares that makes the league a joke.

If it's a joke then why do you have to make stuff up to criticise it then or will you continue to make out you can't see my posts when you already showed you are reading them

They only do these things to make the Welsh happy presumably because they believe that neutral TMOs are the reason why they cant win titles rather than self reflection.

Collapse2005 wrote:They only do these things to make the Welsh happy presumably because they believe that neutral TMOs are the reason why they cant win titles rather than self reflection.

Who can't win titles?

If the attendances in Wales are so bad and declining, why would joining the English league improve them? Would all the talk about favouring Cardiff, the WRU bias towards Scarlets, the disenfranchisement of the valleys, etc. all suddenly go away because the Welsh teams were getting beaten regularly by English teams rather than by Irish and Scottish ones?

The Welsh. All 4 Irish provinces have won the league whereas just two Welsh ones have one and overall with less frequency than the Irish ones.

Collapse2005 wrote:The Welsh.

The Welsh, who have won 35% of Celtic League rugby championship titles to date, can't win Celtic League rugby championship titles?

Collapse2005 wrote:The Welsh. All 4 Irish provinces have won the league whereas just two Welsh ones have one and overall with less frequency than the Irish ones.

They won the years the Irish were fighting amongst themselves and couldn't keep the conspiracy going

Collapse2005 wrote:The Welsh. All 4 Irish provinces have won the league whereas just two Welsh ones have one and overall with less frequency than the Irish ones.

Some 2 minute climbdown

Eh? I think the point is the Welsh sides look over to Ireland with just a smidge of jealousy and it tends to unsettle them a little.

Collapse2005 wrote:Eh?

"The Welsh can't win titles"

>>>

[fact checks]

>>>

[oh bugger]

>>>


"Some of the Welsh can't win titles. And the others win it not so much as some other teams. Some of the time. Sometimes."

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

BamBam wrote:If we end up ring fencing the Prem, maybe the Welsh regions could join the Championship?

YES PLEASE

A THOUSAND TIMES

YES PLEASE.

So to be clear you would be happy for your regions to join the second rung of English rugby, with no prospect of getting into the ringfenced prem? No European tournament and pretty much all your top stars leaving and your regions playing against mainly semi professional clubs?
And you think that would be better?

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Anything is worth the risk at this point, the pro14 is  so unbearable.

So you would rather see the death of professional rugby in Wales, all because you have worked yourself into a frenzy on a false idea that the league is all for the Irish, than stay in the pro14.
All your best talent leave Wales, all your promising talent looking to get into English academies as soon as possible.
That is some top class fundamentalism to rival most religious

carpet baboon wrote:

So you would rather see the death of professional rugby in Wales, all because you have worked yourself into a frenzy on a false idea that the league is all for the Irish, than stay in the pro14.
All your best talent leave Wales, all your promising talent looking to get into English academies as soon as possible.
That is some top class fundamentalism to rival most religious

It wouldn't be the death of pro rugby in Wales. The Pro14 is leading to the death of pro rugby in Wales.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Eh?

"The Welsh can't win titles"

>>>

[fact checks]

>>>

[oh bugger]

>>>


"Some of the Welsh can't win titles. And the others win it not so much as some other teams. Some of the time. Sometimes."

Don't need to fact check. I already spoke about the Ospreys great win over Leinster in 2010 earlier on in the thread. I was at that game and the Scarlets win v Munster a couple of years ago.

Relative to the Irish sides they cannot win which triggers the predicable whinge about its all unfair. blah blah blah.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Relative to the Irish sides they cannot win .

It gets better.

Of course they don't compare to Irish sides. The budgets of the Irish sides are far bigger.

Why do you think the Irish sides are better? Let me guess, it's because they are "arsed?

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Why? Just because you disagree with it?

It's a form of communication, a way of drawing attention to things without having to cold call

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that those involved are happy with the results and pronouncing so publicly

I bet you watch adverts in your spare time as well.

So you'd rather they didn't hype up the league and promote the success it could bring to companies?

It's almost like you're willing it to fail and would rather the likes of the regions continue to struggle financially rather than someone trying to generate added revenue

Gosh...I DO hope the broadcasting company succeeds...rugby would be NOTHING without pay-to-view TV!!!!

You work for Premier Sports, don't you marty? It's the only explanation.

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Why? Just because you disagree with it?

It's a form of communication, a way of drawing attention to things without having to cold call

You not liking it doesn't change the fact that those involved are happy with the results and pronouncing so publicly

I bet you watch adverts in your spare time as well.

So you'd rather they didn't hype up the league and promote the success it could bring to companies?

It's almost like you're willing it to fail and would rather the likes of the regions continue to struggle financially rather than someone trying to generate added revenue

Gosh...I DO hope the broadcasting company succeeds...rugby would be NOTHING without pay-to-view TV!!!!

You work for Premier Sports, don't you marty? It's the only explanation.

I notice you didn't answer the question

Would you rather the league didn't promote the benefits of being associated with the league?

I cba answering the question because it's so inane, particularly when so many of the relevant/interesting points I've raised are flat out ignored (which I don't care about but I'd rather discuss that). If you think you've 'won' something because of that - congratulations.

Says it all really, attack the point but when challenged as to what exactly is wrong with trying to hype the brand you can't actually answer?

So after RF1000 and his made up claims now we have yet another who is highlighting that they just want to pi$$ on everything Pro14 and has no actual discernible reasoning for taking umbrage to something related to the league other than it just shows up their intransigence

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

So you would rather see the death of professional rugby in Wales, all because you have worked yourself into a frenzy on a false idea that the league is all for the Irish, than stay in the pro14.
All your best talent leave Wales, all your promising talent looking to get into English academies as soon as possible.
That is some top class fundamentalism to rival most religious

It wouldn't be the death of pro rugby in Wales. The Pro14 is leading to the death of pro rugby in Wales.

Explain how it wouldn't exactly?
Worse refs, less tv coverage, best players gone. Less money.

I thought one of the major faults attributed to Pro14 has been that the Irish have been even less arsed than the Welsh about it? No? They don't give enough of themselves to it or enough of their 'star' players to it? Yet now, I see the 'not being arsed' excuse being ridiculed by a few folks who think the concept ridiculous....and they ain't Irish.

Weird territory, this Pro14 prairie.....weird logic all over the place.

I wonder what Phil would think about all this that's being discussed right now as regards 'better to reign in the second rung of English rugby than to serve in PrO'14'?

I guess a fan Could have such an attitude..... all is fair in love and war. I can appreciate the tone of anger, hate and/or frustration when a relationship just isn't working out.
But, what would the Regional players think? What would Regional coaches think? Very ambitious terrain to be more eager to play in a lesser league than in the top notch one. Fans really attach themselves emotionally to such teams.
Anyway, it's at such points that you'd really need Phill's opinion...but alas, not a sign of him around.

carpet baboon wrote:

Explain how it wouldn't exactly?
Worse refs, less tv coverage, best players gone. Less money.

Because the 4 Welsh teams would boss the league and in the end they'd let us in the Premiership.

marty, are you employed by Premier Sports and/or the Pro14?

Why on earth would the pro drop 4 of their own teams to let the Welsh into the prem rugby fan? And what makes.you think you'd boss the league. You'd lose all the best players to the prem france the revised pro 14.

I think that's because different people say different things, Fly. If it were all coming from one person...then perhaps you ridicule that person. Joining the English Championship is pretty absurd. Even the most anti-Pro14 fans would struggle to get behind that.

miaow wrote:marty, are you employed by Premier Sports and/or the Pro14?

Deflecting now?

No!

Now you want to answer the question you've been asked twice or you just want to ignorantly pi$$ on everything pro14?

Ok, good to know. And no, I don't want to answer. Cheers!

Makes a change.

miaow wrote:Ok, good to know. And no, I don't want to answer. Cheers!

Because it will highlight how much cr@p you talk and how little you grasp about what the league were trying to do

Figured as much

miaow wrote:I think that's because different people say different things, Fly. If it were all coming from one person...then perhaps you ridicule that person. Joining the English Championship is pretty absurd. Even the most anti-Pro14 fans would struggle to get behind that.

RugbyFan100 would love it

carpet baboon wrote:

miaow wrote:I think that's because different people say different things, Fly. If it were all coming from one person...then perhaps you ridicule that person. Joining the English Championship is pretty absurd. Even the most anti-Pro14 fans would struggle to get behind that.

RugbyFan100 would love it

I bet Phil would

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

So you would rather see the death of professional rugby in Wales, all because you have worked yourself into a frenzy on a false idea that the league is all for the Irish, than stay in the pro14.
All your best talent leave Wales, all your promising talent looking to get into English academies as soon as possible.
That is some top class fundamentalism to rival most religious

It wouldn't be the death of pro rugby in Wales. The Pro14 is leading to the death of pro rugby in Wales.

So where would the money come from to sustain it - you're not going to pack them in at PYS or Rodney Parade for games against Doncaster, Ampthill, Coventry and Hartpury?

What player with any sort of international ambitions is going to play Championship level rugby?

SKY have the championship on TV (IIRC it came as a cheap add on from the RFU with the England AI's deal) and show it as a space filler - they don't even show a game every week. BBC Wales expected to pony up the TV cash then?

Irish Londoner wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

So you would rather see the death of professional rugby in Wales, all because you have worked yourself into a frenzy on a false idea that the league is all for the Irish, than stay in the pro14.
All your best talent leave Wales, all your promising talent looking to get into English academies as soon as possible.
That is some top class fundamentalism to rival most religious

It wouldn't be the death of pro rugby in Wales. The Pro14 is leading to the death of pro rugby in Wales.

So where would the money come from to sustain it - you're not going to pack them in at PYS or Rodney Parade for games against Doncaster, Ampthill, Coventry and Hartpury?

What player with any sort of international ambitions is going to play Championship level rugby?

SKY have the championship on TV (IIRC it came as a cheap add on from the RFU with the England AI's deal) and show it as a space filler - they don't even show a game every week. BBC Wales expected to pony up the TV cash then?

It would be an interim move. So as long as they can cover the losses for the time they are in the Championship they'll be ok.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Explain how it wouldn't exactly?
Worse refs, less tv coverage, best players gone. Less money.

Because the 4 Welsh teams would boss the league and in the end they'd let us in the Premiership.

How would you boss the league? Your best players would leave due to the massive drop in funding.
No top players means less people coming to watch (as you keep telling us Irish when we rotate the test players).
Jersey reds ain't exactly packed with household names to bring back the fans.
The terrible reffing (which again you say is a blight on the league) would hurt the league wouldn't it?

Also I'm pretty sure for a cross border competition encompassing more than one country's teams a new league would have to be set up, which would mean no direct link to the prem, so again little to no chance of it being possible, not to mention can't see the RFU or championship clubs voting for it, and the PRL would have no interest.

So in my opinion moving to a new cross border comp with the English championship sides, would kill the professional game in Wales not reinvigorate it.

But you can believe that moving to a lesser league that on the promise that maybe one day we could move yet again to another better league will keep hold of your best players (all wiling to take a pay cut of course) and bring back the huge crowds for games against Doncaster and Ealing, well that's your choice. It seems a little far fetched to me, but if it makes you happy crack on son

When they launched their take over of the Pro14 TV rights, they did promise that Judgement Day would remain protected as the WRU show piece.

See that promise has been broken from the start, with the Blues/Osprey game the only one being shown (delayed till 8pm - NOT Live) on S4C without English commentary.

The final death nail in the Pro14, as far as I'm concerned.

marty2086 wrote:

miaow wrote:Ok, good to know. And no, I don't want to answer. Cheers!

Because it will highlight how much cr@p you talk and how little you grasp about what the league were trying to do

Figured as much

Not at all. Bending to the manipulative questions of people like you and 7.5 isn't in my nature. 7.5 is disingenous and the questions you're asking aren't really leading anywhere. Obviously I don't want the Pro14 to fail - you can clearly read I've written I like it and, at times, it's worked well. But it needs serious improvement.

I come in for so much stick on this site but, honestly, a lot of you just need to grow up and stop living for a reaction.

carpet baboon wrote:

How would you boss the league? Your best players would leave due to the massive drop in funding.
No top players means less people coming to watch (as you keep telling us Irish when we rotate the test players).
Jersey reds ain't exactly packed with household names to bring back the fans.
The terrible reffing (which again you say is a blight on the league) would hurt the league wouldn't it?

Also I'm pretty sure for a cross border competition encompassing more than one country's teams a new league would have to be set up, which would mean no direct link to the prem, so again little to no chance of it being possible, not to mention can't see the RFU or championship clubs voting for it, and the PRL would have no interest.

So in my opinion moving to a new cross border comp with the English championship sides, would kill the professional game in Wales not reinvigorate it.

But you can believe that moving to a lesser league that on the promise that maybe one day we could move yet again to another better league will keep hold of your best players (all wiling to take a pay cut of course) and bring back the huge crowds for games against Doncaster and Ealing, well that's your choice. It seems a little far fetched to me, but if it makes you happy crack on son

As I've said - we cover losses in the interim. We take the hit. Benefcators might stump up more. It might take £3m more debt than planned. But It's all we have left - the hope of one again joining the English. Our natural rivals. The pro14 is killing us. Probably a pipe dream - but I'm just answering the question.