The Future for the PRO14 - Part 10 - Who runs it now and what next?

First topic message reminder :

Far back in distant time, when the Irish provinces were playing each other and the Welsh and Scottish clubs were occasionally playing each other, someone had the bright idea of creating a competition between the three unions with the clubs playing each other in some kind of competition or cup during the season in preparation for the Six Nations.    Initially, the IRFU weren’t hot on the idea and thought it better that the annual interpros were sufficient for the task, but eventually they were persuaded to join forces and so the three unions came together as equal shareholders in what was then called Celtic Rugby Limited.   They decided to base it in Dublin to avail of the low corporation tax base and also because it allowed them to use the same back room people who worked on the newly formed 6 Nations comp and the British & Irish Lions.   The original International Rugby Football Board was also founded in Dublin with the same three foundation unions, which eventually became the IRB, and then the current World Rugby.   The European Rugby comps were also set up in Dublin, before the newly created EPCR moved lock, stock and barrel to Neufchâtel.

All very Irish, and Irish-centric, one would be entitled to think.

But who actually runs the organizations, and where do they hail from?

The PRO14 comp is owned by Celtic Rugby DAC (Designated Activity Company) and currently has the same three shareholders.   Subject to outstanding financial obligations being met by the FIR, they will become shareholders next season, and most likely so will SARU as it completes its decision-making on where it is going with its 8 franchise teams in Super Rugby and PRO 14.  Presumably, the intent would be to make each shareholder an equal ownership partner with a 20% allocation to each party, although an argument may be made that the new shareholding should be linked to the number of teams provided under the PRO14 Participation Agreement, in which case the Irish, Welsh and South Africans may come out on top. With the likely involvement of CVC taking a stake, the shareholding may be revised drastically.

Currently, the PRO14 via Celtic Rugby has a board comprising equal number of directors from each of the five nations.   Welsh-born, Gareth Davies chairs the board.  

An executive headed up by Martin Anayi, born and raised in England and Wales, leads the management team, which includes:
David Jordan, Scottish-born and ex-Glasgow Warriors CEO, tournament director of the PRO14,
Amy Monaghan, Irish-born is the tournament manager,
Dermot Rigley, the Irish-born Chief Commercial Officer of the organisation
Tom Lister, English-born Marketing Director
Greg Garner, the English-born, ex-RFU referees manager,
Charl Crous, ex-Southern Kings COO, and SA-born is the Head of Operations.

So is the PRO14 Irish-centric or Irish-biased?

There’s no denying that it’s based in Dublin, and a number of middle-management and admin staff are recruited in Ireland, but at the top, decision-making level, the diversity of countries and spread of nationalities would point to it being a lot more evenly spread.

The last three key headline sponsors of the competition have all derived from Ireland - Magners (Bulmers in Ireland), RaboDirect, a Dutch bank with ambitions to invest sand grow in the Irish market, and currently, Guinness, owned by the UK-listed global drinks company, Diageo, but with evident strong roots in Ireland.

The current TV deals with EirSport in Ireland and Premier Sports in the UK have Irish roots in their founders and creators from Setanta Sports.    

It’s current partners and suppliers include Guinness, Opta, SportPesa, The UK Times/Sunday Times, Macron, Ronseal, and ROS Nutrition.  Eir, the parent company of EirSport, are the sponsors of the referees.

Will the increase of SA involvement change things somewhat as SuperSport and associated sponsors get more involved?  

With growing success of Scottish teams, will there be greater interest from business and advertisers?

What do the Italians intended to bring to the party as part of their increased involvement and new shareholding in 2019/20?

miaow wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

miaow wrote:

marty2086 wrote:Im merely pointing out that the setup works well elsewhere, you're saying there are clear structural issues, it can't be that clear when those structures work elsewhere

The Top 14 structure isn't close to the Pro14's structure. It's a league with promotion and relegation, Pro is a conference system with 5 different nations with no relegation/promotion.

As Marty correctly points out, promotion/relegation has nothing to do with what kind of playoff system is used.   You said in your original response: "Some clear structural issues with the league - QFs are ridiculous, for instance. SFs and a Final is the more reasonable way to do it."

Why are QFs ridiculous?     With the increase in the number of teams in the Championship, and the move to a two-conference structure, the organisers decided to expand the finals stage to include 6 teams - similar to what occurs in the Top 14 and in Super Rugby.

Interesting, but no. These two QFs exist in very different contexts. They're not equal and barely comparable. In any case, the TOP 14 is hardly a model to want to replicate in MANY ways.

The QF stage exist in very similar contexts - a greater number of teams. And a multi-country conference structure same as Super Rugby albeit grouped mainly by country.   And, if I recall correctly, PRO14 heads used these two comps as comparitors when they introduced the QF stages.  The quality of the teams in the finals stage stand up to scrutiny.  Benetton could easily have won at Thomond and Connacht ditto at Ravenhill.  It pushes and encourages teams more rather than watch the top 2 teams sail out of sight.

Are you working for the Pro14? Everything you've said there is patently untrue.

More excellent news to add to the confusion: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48176563

Almost like they're making it up as they go along...any more Rand knocking about for next season? How about US Dollars? Anyone?

Not even joking now but HOW IS ANYONE STILL DEFENDING THIS COMPETITION!?

miaow wrote:Not even joking now but HOW IS ANYONE STILL DEFENDING THIS COMPETITION!?

Well anyone who had read the rules of the qualification process for the euros, and understood how it worked, then worked out the what would need to happen for this scenario to come to fruition.
So clearly no one in Wales.
Even if this had been mentioned weeks ago

It absolutely wasn't made clear that a play-off could be occurring over a month after the regular season has finished in a RWC year. Anything but clear. But thanks for patronising attempt at a pat on the head.

And, again, because it totally feels like this is more about 'one-upping' the Welsh with bitter little put downs: even if it were clear, how is this an acceptable system in the first place?!

miaow wrote:It absolutely wasn't made clear that a play-off could be occurring over a month after the regular season has finished in a RWC year. Anything but clear. But thanks for patronising attempt at a pat on the head.

Why exactly is this an issue? the welsh players will have had loads of time to rest due to not reaching the knock out phases in any of the competitions. I'd imagine the players are mad to get back out there.

Mad stuff. People are bending over backwards to justify what is a shambles in so many facets.

miaow wrote:Mad stuff. People are bending over backwards to justify what is a shambles in so many facets.

Not really an answer is it?

Well you can't have a playoff untill you know who has already qualified. So dependant on results that means until the French season is over, and we have no say over that, so not sure what the pro14 could have done about it

It's not the Pro14's fault that euro rugby came up with this convoluted mess of a qualification.

It is not the league's fault that the T14 like rugby so much that they play 10 months of the year.

The good news in all this that Wales may get an automatic spot after all because the Irish (Leinster) gave them one

miaow wrote:Are you working for the Pro14? Everything you've said there is patently untrue.

Be specific - what is patently untrue?

miaow wrote:It absolutely wasn't made clear that a play-off could be occurring over a month after the regular season has finished in a RWC year. Anything but clear. But thanks for patronising attempt at a pat on the head.

Your writings are sounding somewhat hysterical.    

The 7th place playoff last year was on 20 May - three weeks after the regular season finished on 28 April. 

This year, the planned 7th place playoff game is scheduled for Sat 18 May between Ospreys and Scarlets - three weeks after the regular season finishes.   If Leinster lose the H Cup final, this is what will happen.

However, because there is now the possibility of an 8th spot if Leinster win, the playoff game would have to happen 11 days later on 29 May, three days after the Grand Final, because they have to wait on results of other teams from other league to complete.

It’s not that difficult to follow or surprising, and it involves all of European rugby, not just PRO14.

It’s explained clearly here by PRO14 - https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/03/clarification-on-european-play-off-game/

Pot, don't know why you bother. The guy has issues. True that the Reffing standard seems to have dropped, but the conspiracy ravings are nonsense.

Brendan wrote:It's not the Pro14's fault that euro rugby came up with this convoluted mess of a qualification.

It is not the league's fault that the T14 like rugby so much that they play 10 months of the year.

The good news in all this that Wales may get an automatic spot after all because the Irish (Leinster) gave them one

Thank you, your majesties.

Lagon wrote:Pot, don't know why you bother. The guy has issues. True that the Reffing standard seems to have dropped, but the conspiracy ravings are nonsense.

Absolutely, the similarities between Miaow and Trump are uncanny. Every time someone comes up with the cold, hard facts he/she may as well exclaim "FAKE NEWS!!!"

You've go to laugh at some of the members on here, you really do.

Just because miaow makes a point, then all the Irish members on here go out of their way, all team up and start dismissing everything.

The air on here stinks of self importance, and entitlement. The organisation of the playoffs/qualification for Europe are nothing short of a shambles, whoever is to blame, this cannot be refuted, surely ?

Why are certain members on here so quick to to go out of their way just to prove people wrong ?

Sometimes, would it not hurt, to sometimes have empathy towards other people point of view ? Even if sometimes they are bit outlandish ?

LordDowlais wrote:You've go to laugh at some of the members on here, you really do.

Just because miaow makes a point, then all the Irish members on here go out of their way, all team up and start dismissing everything.

The air on here stinks of self importance, and entitlement. The organisation of the playoffs/qualification for Europe are nothing short of a shambles, whoever is to blame, this cannot be refuted, surely ?

Why are certain members on here so quick to to go out of their way just to prove people wrong ?

Sometimes, would it not hurt, to sometimes have empathy towards other people point of view ? Even if sometimes they are bit outlandish ?

So people pointing out people are wrong are t fault rather than those who are wrong? Always the victim

LordDowlais wrote:You've go to laugh at some of the members on here, you really do.

Just because miaow makes a point, then all the Irish members on here go out of their way, all team up and start dismissing everything.

The air on here stinks of self importance, and entitlement. The organisation of the playoffs/qualification for Europe are nothing short of a shambles, whoever is to blame, this cannot be refuted, surely ?

Why are certain members on here so quick to to go out of their way just to prove people wrong ?

Sometimes, would it not hurt, to sometimes have empathy towards other people point of view ? Even if sometimes they are bit outlandish ?

The organization of the playoffs is not a shambles.  What is your evidence for saying that it is?

"The air on here stinks of self importance, and entitlement"

That'll be Miaow you're smelling LD

What would be the other ways round it? The only ways I could see is that that final euro place is given to a set league so not exactly fair or in future try to negotiate a deal that all leagues finish earlier in a world cup or lions year?

Pete330v2 wrote:"The air on here stinks of self importance, and entitlement"

That'll be Miaow you're smelling LD

Nah. Think the carpet shop is down wind of Pontypridd

Remember when the new structures were brought in and you had two teams having a play off with the winner going into another playoff to qualify for the ERCC, wasn't there also a case where the Challenge Cup winner wasn't qualifying for the Champions Cup?

Silence you vermin! Listen only onto me, for I am your Master!

....*ahem*. .... oh sorry, forgive my outburst. I forgot to take my Humility pill with me cornflakes this morning. We Irish have to get through a bucket load of them damn pills to guide us through a day without offending the rabble that does lie in the sewers beneath us!

Oh my..... another pill needed already.

The overly complex European element of club rugby is a mess ... but the we Irish don't own that competition anymore. It was a grand auld contest when we did. Even Lord would have to agree with that..... or I'd have him flogged if he didn't.

miaow wrote:Mad stuff. People are bending over backwards to justify what is a shambles in so many facets.

The Pro14 could unveil Nigel Farage as it's new ambassador and most on here would defend it.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

miaow wrote:Mad stuff. People are bending over backwards to justify what is a shambles in so many facets.

The Pro14 could unveil Nigel Farage as it's new ambassador and most on here would defend it.

The Pro14 could be sponsored by Carlsberg and you'd still sh!t on it

Nigel Farrage? The articulate man in Brussels who eats timid MEP drones for breakfast?
Oh sorry. Hail the EU!

Whew, hope I got that in quickly enough to stop the boot boy Europhile Thought Police from breaking into my residence and taking me away for 'reeducation' classes.

Lagon wrote:Pot, don't know why you bother. The guy has issues.

No idea who this is. New account that's only a week old coming out with a statement like that - clearly a banned poster or a second account, which is sad and weird.

miaow wrote:

Lagon wrote:Pot, don't know why you bother. The guy has issues.

No idea who this is. New account that's only a week old coming out with a statement like that - clearly a banned poster or a second account, which is sad and weird.

Strange that you would jump straight to such conclusions

miaow wrote:

Lagon wrote:Pot, don't know why you bother. The guy has issues.

No idea who this is. New account that's only a week old coming out with a statement like that - clearly a banned poster or a second account, which is sad and weird.

Are you rocking back and forwards while typing that?

Anyway - back to the ebb and flow of the wonderful and glorious PRO14.

There's a rumour about a rumour that the SA teams participating in next season's Championship won't be the same as the current ones.

I heard that they will be adding to the current teams, maybe the Stormers but the Kings and Cheetahs will stay too.

I hadn't realised that Jonny Sexton's brother signed for the Southern Kings so will be interesting to see them play eachother.

Anyway, the comments on this page are definitive. I'm done with this site, unfortunately. Take this as my 'goodbye' essay.

You can call this overdramatic or whatever you want, but honestly, take a step back and have a look at your own behaviour. Look at the accusations and insults being thrown out with glib disdain on here. Ignore the actual argument for a second, and just look at the fact that someone who says 'look what's going on, this is crazy!?" after repeated failures and problems with the league - happening real time now - gets called crazy and Trump-esque and that this is somehow how they've 'always' posted (I literally never have, this is an uncommon tone for me - but doesn't fit the narrative to compare me to Donald Fckuing Trump, right, so may as well just lie!?)? If that's Trump-esque you're MAGA-hat wearing, tribal bullies. It's pathetic.

And because there's so little actual content and discussion on rugby interspersed between the trolling, and bickering, and jingoistic chest-thumping to compensate for whatever each individual is compensating for, this is the default mode on this site now. It's such a weird situation because the exact things I'm being accused of are the 'tactics' of the trolls/disgruntled posters on here. Like a weird kind of projection of your own bitterness, a way of justifying your bile by imagining that I'm worse than you, and therefore deserving of trolling. You're throwing things in my face that you yourselves are utterly guilty of - and it's only because when I do try to discuss rugby (which I do, at length, maybe too much length and that pi55es people off, but I'm no WUM nor troll and always post in good faith that we're on this site to actually talk about rugby first and foremost) the reaction is to troll, and deflect, and WUM etc. It's always been the same, dragging the conversation down to a certain level, derailing threads, and then spewing up against the individual poster when you don't like - AND CANNOT ARGUE - with the rugby discussion at hand.

As for the argument itself, it's just painful. It's not even close to being made in good faith by those piling on. Nor are the points raised to counter me 'good' yet they're venerated as 'correct' by the partisan posters who have a 'personal' (I say personal: this is a mostly anonymous website after all, which makes it even weirder) issue with me. It's like talking with low-level gaslighters who deflect, and patronise, and coo arrogantly together that 'oh, no, THAT point you've raised is wrong because look over THERE and see how this totally different situation is fine, which means this one's fine, too'. I've met enough, and know enough about, psychologically abusive people to recognise toxicity and that is absolutely a key trait of it. I've made the argument in good faith - about the issues with Welsh rugby, and the issues with the league; how those are very different, but in some ways connected at the top level. There is zero point in making them again because the % of gobturdery to decent posters is a good 4:1, meaning any discussion just gets buried very quickly in the pile-on of mocking, WUMming, trolling etc. So you get to the point where the actual point raised - the shambles that is the qualification and play-off game coming weeks after the end of the season, eating in to RWC preparation times - gets buried under 'QFs are fine...but mostly, let's talk aboout miaow. Let's talk about how mental they are, how biased, how mental, how Trump-eque. Let's call them mad one more time for good measure!'. I have no idea whether you all realise the level of toxic 5h1t some of you are spewing out - and how, all joking aside, it really does mirror the kind of rabid gaslighting found in the more putrid corners of social media (although maybe not so much a corner anymore: maybe this is just the default way of talking to strangers).

I thought the old 606 was great. It took a while to warm to this new site for a few reasons but in some ways, the freedom from the BBC actually made it a better platform, and no doubt there have been some great posters and great discussions over the years. Sadly, of course, many of the best posters have been driven away over the years, or left by their own desire. The further it got from the old 606 - the visibility it used to have, the rolling posters it used to attract because of the BBC's gravitas - the more dilluted that quality became, unfortunately. I could take the fact that you had the 'likely' characters who were out to spoil and WUM etc.: the odd few who had/have issues with posters on a petty individual basis, who rage and drag up personal things (like their business or employment, for instance, as we can see on this page alone!) when they want to 'win' a discussion or bait them to work out some of their own issues. That's fine - they're easy enough to ignore because it's tragic/pathetic. But I can't deal with the way the site's becoming even more partisan in the last year or so - weirdly, it's down national lines, which it never used to be quite so clearly defined by.

Wales has definitely contributed a few of our best village idiots on here over the years so we're hardly in good standing in this regard - and I wouldn't want to make the case that we're better than it, anyway - but the hyper-sensitivity and aggressive offence that's immediately taken when discussing any other national or club rugby team on here has definitely changed. The Scots aside, who I enjoyed a refreshing reprieve with during the 6Ns on the Wales v Scotland threat, far too many posters seem borderline-nationalistic in their postings. Thinking out loud, I can't help but feel the politics of the outside world has an impact on this; but more than that - actually, much more important than that - is the fact that social media and using screen technology produces this kind of myopic aggressiveness. There's a 'me' and a 'you' and in the most brute, fundamental terms, 'we' are different from one another, and the way in which your identity is different from mine is worth fighting over.

The discussion, the actual rugby - it's peripheral to the main issue which is one of...I don't know what to call it. Fighting for fighting's sake? The prime example here is 7.5: they hover around, looking to barb and bait, but get them in discussion - really get down to the fundamentals - and what is their argument? "England are the best. LOL Wales." Literal quotes - that is 7.5's 'ideology' (not even sure you can call it that). But that is the motivation for them writing on this site - it has almost nothing to do with reality and rugby, it's simply a way of bolstering a sense of national pride through imagined superiority. Reality clearly shows differently in a glaring manner that there has been little to no difference between Eng/Ire/Wal over the last 10 years other than idiosyncratic successes/failures. Yet none of that matters. Sadly, the same goes to Taylorman who I thought was a good poster and enjoyed the SH perspective but, get down to it, and the motivating factor is antipodean (and primarily Kiwi) superiority over the big, bad, corporate NH. Black:white. Good:evil. It's simplistic ideological bias. The exact same goes for the Irish and this league - it's a clear ambivalence with the fundamental issues that adding the South Africans brought, laced with an arrogance and sense of superiority over Wales (in particular) that (along with the anonymity of posting online) emboldens enough of you to troll and spew your bile over different threads. And NO DOUBT some Welsh posters have their own issues and use nationalism as a way of wielding imagined, vicarious strength and/or superiority over others. It's a site-wide problem, not just limited to a few posters or nationalities - the exemptions are there, of course, and no doubt there's probably a quiet majority put off from regular posting, which is the real tragedy. Because the forum has more than enough saving graces at times to make it enjoyable - but this is just one step too far for me. It's putrid and rotten and it's not worth it anymore.

Anyway, I like discussing things at length. I can't really be bothered getting in to tit for tat back and forths, a few words here and there - I don't think you can really say anything with great meaning or depth with such brevity unless you really think about it, and I don't have the inclination to sit and think about how to boil down lots of points in to a few, brief sentences. I've rather spell it out - just look at the number of posts on these boards and you'll see tens of thousands of posts from some, so clearly I'm not in the majority here, but I prefer to talk about things that take time to say and that get to the detail of something - which probably doesn't work well at times, but so be it. It's possible to ignore these posts rather than baiting me, only responding with how I'm ruining this website (Cyril's a weird one for this - he's suddenly become a morally righteous crusader in the last few weeks despite the several years of WUMmery he has under his belt). But that's what I enjoy(ed) doing - there's basically no social media I enjoy anymore because it's about brevity but also about much more nefarious purposes as well. No corner of the internet isn't tainted by advertising, or has the potential to ruin your career/life if you reveal anything close to a full human self, or is scourged by the anger and hatred of human beings using social media as a means for working out their personal/psychological issues and/or development. It's tiring and alienating.

I've worked quite closely to the top level of rugby in recent years - players, coaches, media etc. I enjoyed it, but no doubt I realised that my heart wasn't in the game in the way I thought it was. I had to stop playing because of injury in my mid teens and no doubt the frustration of that got poured in to watching/understanding the game in a more consumerist way - as a supporter rather than a player. Being around the top level of the European/English game for a while made me realise that my heart really isn't in rugby in that way whatsoever,  and actually, there's much better ways of directing the motivation I felt playing the game than as a supporter or employed within the sport in a non-playing role, and that's in being involved in the game in a more hands on capacity. That's something I hope to do in the near future and seems much better than working for what are ostensibly meat-factory businesses (the pro game) that really do lack the magic of the amateur sport. No doubt, discussing the more 'cerebral' aspects of the game on a forum like this - however flawed I was in hoping that might happen with any consistency - plays its part in that. If I were having those discssions with other posters on a regular basis, maybe I'd feel differently, but I'm not - as I say, this site has become a cesspit at times.

I admire what the mods have done in recent weeks and months and no doubt I've played a part in making their lives a bit more difficult, which I apologise for. I hope it isn't the case that they're simply left with rearranging deckchairs. I'd imagine by my leaving, the arguments will probably decrease for a while - that's the 'success' of an echo chamber, it drives out difference for the sake of a unitary ideology/point of view. You'll probably see that decrease in arguments as a sign that I was the 'real' problem - but no, that's not the case. I've played my part by not acting appropriately to every WUM and troll, no doubt, but this forum has a deep toxicity at its very core that comes from the very structure of social media itself, to the way rugby is being used as an excuse to justify imagined forms of national/local superiority and probably a whole host of other problems by a number of different posters. Just see the way the Folau thread has attracted so much interest - lots of the comments are very interesting, some of them are anything but. But it's a sign that, increasingly, this site isn't about the rugby anymore. Which is great...until it's not. And this thread is a sign that it's definitely not.

And for that reason, I'm oot. Cheers to everyone who made it an enjoyable space over the years, and good luck to those who want to make the forum a success.

Well I for one am proud to be mentioned in King Wums farewell speech.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well I for one am proud to be mentioned in King Wums farewell speech.

It's quite ironic his claim about you given they once argued that no one was allowed to counter his argument or else they were proving they basically just being argumentative

Oh god I'd never deny being argumentative.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh god I'd never deny being argumentative.

Ha fair play

Well done No 7&1/2, here is another member you have ousted from this forum, your behaviour along with a couple of Irish, and one or two Welsh, Stone Motif in particular, and one or two English, BamBam and Cyril, have absolutely ruined this place.

far too often I have my personal business brought into disrepute on this forum, I get mocked for the business I chose to run, and even though I have had years of success, and earned and continue to earn a very good living whilst providing employment to a number of people, I still get the morons on here taking swipes.

Miaow is right in what he is saying. Except for the moderation. Certain members on here get away with murder.

LordDowlais wrote:Well done No 7&1/2, here is another member you have ousted from this forum, your behaviour along with a couple of Irish, and one or two Welsh, Stone Motif in particular, and one or two English, BamBam and Cyril, have absolutely ruined this place.

far too often I have my personal business brought into disrepute on this forum, I get mocked for the business I chose to run, and even though I have had years of success, and earned and continue to earn a very good living whilst providing employment to a number of people, I still get the morons on here taking swipes.

Miaow is right in what he is saying. Except for the moderation. Certain members on here get away with murder.

So it's everyone except for the few Welsh posters who talk sh!te, make stuff up then cry victim?

Can someone give me the abridged version of his farewell flounce?

Is it all victimhood and why won't people respect my opinion as fact?

You're making me blush LD but I'd hardly describe picking apart an argument ousting someone. Offered the olive branch and was then insulted. The only thing I've done on this thread is ask how the issue of qualification could be sorted even if only for lions and WC years.

It's more the fact that you're as bad of them, Marty. Or one of them, to put it another way. But you do not see that yourself.

The Oracle wrote:It's more the fact that you're as bad of them, Marty.  Or one of them, to put it another way.  But you do not see that yourself.

Sorry, when did I make anything up?

LordDowlais wrote:Well done No 7&1/2, here is another member you have ousted from this forum, your behaviour along with a couple of Irish, and one or two Welsh, Stone Motif in particular, and one or two English, BamBam and Cyril, have absolutely ruined this place.

far too often I have my personal business brought into disrepute on this forum, I get mocked for the business I chose to run, and even though I have had years of success, and earned and continue to earn a very good living whilst providing employment to a number of people, I still get the morons on here taking swipes.

Miaow is right in what he is saying. Except for the moderation. Certain members on here get away with murder.

To be fair Miaow contributed to her own demise. What's your business?

LordDowlais wrote:Well done No 7&1/2, here is another member you have ousted from this forum, your behaviour along with a couple of Irish, and one or two Welsh, Stone Motif in particular, and one or two English, BamBam and Cyril, have absolutely ruined this place.

far too often I have my personal business brought into disrepute on this forum, I get mocked for the business I chose to run, and even though I have had years of success, and earned and continue to earn a very good living whilst providing employment to a number of people, I still get the morons on here taking swipes.

Miaow is right in what he is saying. Except for the moderation. Certain members on here get away with murder.

The only business of yours I've ever mocked is your outpouring in the Western Mail, Andy. I've never said anything about the quality of your shag. You owe me an apology.