Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty

by RugbyFan100 Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty - Page 4 FtvssQC

by LordDowlais Wed 01 May 2019, 1:35 pm

How has a thread about George Clancy being inept turned into this ?

by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 May 2019, 1:38 pm

Because the original poster wants the Welsh teams to joint the Championship.

by RugbyFan100 Wed 01 May 2019, 1:39 pm

Lagon wrote:

Get good coaching...

Who is going to pay for these top class coaches?

by marty2086 Wed 01 May 2019, 1:46 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Lagon wrote:

Get good coaching...

Who is going to pay for these top class coaches?

The money men the likes of yourself and Phil like to worship

by SecretFly Wed 01 May 2019, 1:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:How has a thread about George Clancy being inept turned into this ?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but here I think is the first direct allusion to something bigger than just Clancy getting a decision wrong:

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

Because the officials bottled it. It just proves how inept they are in the Pro14 and how it is causing negativity towards the league.

There was an earlier indirect allusion but this one I think was the first one about the Pro14 being the culprit again.... all the way back on page one. You can then take all the proceeding posts (and tone) from there.

by **rodders** Wed 01 May 2019, 1:51 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Why has this thread turned into an attack on the Welsh by the usual suspects, and why are the MODS allowing it ?

Marty and LD can we knock this on the head and stay on topic please?

And yes Clancy bottled it, he should have given at least a yellow...

by marty2086 Wed 01 May 2019, 1:52 pm

rodders wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Why has this thread turned into an attack on the Welsh by the usual suspects, and why are the MODS allowing it ?

Marty and LD can we knock this on the head and stay on topic please?

And yes Clancy bottled it, he should have given at least a yellow...

Where did I go off topic?

by Guest Wed 01 May 2019, 1:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:How has a thread about George Clancy being inept turned into this ?

Very good question.

With the RWC round the corner, I hope we don't see this kind of stunt pulled. I don't think we will - it's just substandard officiating from Clancy for all the previously mentioned reasons - but it is worrying that refs can 'get away' with this sort of thing when it matters. Craig Joubert...looking at you...

Over in Super Rugby, TJ Perenara apparently scored this try. It's worth a watch because it is SURELY held up.

https://youtu.be/hfEVzdFpAN4?t=210

Refereeing isn't standardised. Adding the TMO seems to have made things even worse. Some, like Nige, use it to reinforce their original viewpoint and if it's not overwhelmingly obvious he got it wrong, quickly sticks with the decision. Others spend an age reviewing the video. Here, it's just ineptitude - but it raises and interesting point.

by Pot Hale Wed 01 May 2019, 2:16 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Because the original poster wants the Welsh teams to joint the Championship.

The Welsh teams are already in the Championship. The PRO14 Championship.

by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 May 2019, 2:19 pm

The RFU Championship.

by Pot Hale Wed 01 May 2019, 2:22 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:

What precisely is interesting that Clancy and the TMO got the decision wrong in your view?

I fail to see what is “interesting” about it.

by RugbyFan100 Wed 01 May 2019, 2:24 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:

What precisely is interesting that Clancy and the TMO got the decision wrong in your view?

I fail to see what is “interesting” about it.

I find it interesting that a team of 4 officials, complete with television replays, could give a penalty for an act which looks so dangerous and is likely to result in a hefty ban.

by Pete330v2 Wed 01 May 2019, 2:36 pm

miaow wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:How has a thread about George Clancy being inept turned into this ?

Very good question.

With the RWC round the corner, I hope we don't see this kind of stunt pulled. I don't think we will - it's just substandard officiating from Clancy for all the previously mentioned reasons - but it is worrying that refs can 'get away' with this sort of thing when it matters. Craig Joubert...looking at you...

Over in Super Rugby, TJ Perenara apparently scored this try. It's worth a watch because it is SURELY held up.

https://youtu.be/hfEVzdFpAN4?t=210

Refereeing isn't standardised. Adding the TMO seems to have made things even worse. Some, like Nige, use it to reinforce their original viewpoint and if it's not overwhelmingly obvious he got it wrong, quickly sticks with the decision. Others spend an age reviewing the video. Here, it's just ineptitude - but it raises and interesting point.

Seriously?
Was that awarded?
Surely not.
That's the clearest example of being held up that I've ever seen.....

by Guest Wed 01 May 2019, 2:39 pm

He grounds it just after the clip cuts off. And yes, apparently that's a try...hence why officiating is always interesting. Because I'd be devastated if Wales were to be knocked out of the RWC due to a dodgy decision like this. Scotland had to deal with it last time. There are mistakes, and then there are 'mistakes'. When the TMO is involved it's unacceptable to be pulling the kind of nonsense Clancy did here.

by **rodders** Wed 01 May 2019, 3:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Why has this thread turned into an attack on the Welsh by the usual suspects, and why are the MODS allowing it ?

Marty and LD can we knock this on the head and stay on topic please?

And yes Clancy bottled it, he should have given at least a yellow...

Where did I go off topic?

The thread is about Clancy's handling of McFadden's alleged headbutt, not to do with how Wales play rugby.

by marty2086 Wed 01 May 2019, 3:27 pm

rodders wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
rodders wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Why has this thread turned into an attack on the Welsh by the usual suspects, and why are the MODS allowing it ?

Marty and LD can we knock this on the head and stay on topic please?

And yes Clancy bottled it, he should have given at least a yellow...

Where did I go off topic?

The thread is about Clancy's handling of McFadden's alleged headbutt, not to do with how Wales play rugby.

Apologies, responding to comments with an attempt at humour isn't ok but crackpot conspiracy theories are.

by BamBam Wed 01 May 2019, 3:56 pm

This forum would have 1/4 of the posts without the crackpots and their conspiracy theories

by Guest Wed 01 May 2019, 4:53 pm

1/4 seems a conservative estimate.

by Collapse2005 Wed 01 May 2019, 4:58 pm

miaow wrote:1/4 seems a conservative estimate.

Ha you should know

by RugbyFan100 Wed 01 May 2019, 6:14 pm

BamBam wrote:This forum would have 1/4 of the posts without the crackpots and their conspiracy theories

I'd happily have less quantity and more quality

by Brendan Wed 01 May 2019, 9:52 pm

So having read through this and other threads I think what this shows is

The Pro14 is in favour of Irish teams where this decision had a clear benefit for an Irish team. It also shows that Irish refs and TMOs benefited an Irish team. If we were like the Prem or T14 where refs are from the same country and neutral this wouldn't have happened.

Because of the call by the ref, both Irish teams picking up points and got what they needed from the game to finish top 2 in the conference. This call was in part because Scarlets (the highest placed Welsh Team) had to play their game earlier. If all the games had kicked off at the same time the ref wouldn't have known what the Scarlets result was and let him make the call.

The WRU were asked for comment just muttered "we love money we don't care how the Regions do on the field"
Gatland said "I'm not surprised it happened, when I was in Ireland Eddie did it to me and the IRFU told me to leave if I wasn't happy"
The Blues coach was asked for comment but he said he didn't talk work on his Holidays
Connacht coach Andy Friend said that the matter was for the league but requested Clancy as ref for next week while taking an unplanned squad trip to Glasgow city centre Saturday night to do some training of how best to use your head.

I must now go to the doctor to get my tongue taken out of my cheek.

by Lagon Wed 01 May 2019, 11:58 pm

KID A, you were told years ago to get a good coaching ticket in. Sure, Pivac was right for Scarlets. He produced the goods. Are you telling me you couldn't afford him?.
Ospreys with all their big signings never had the coach to take them over the line.
Regions management has always been a joke. All infighting against each other/WRU, and always looking to blame your strongest competitors-the Irish.
You have only yourselves to blame.
The claim by a few of you that you don't blame the Irish is laughable. I can destroy you alone on that lie. Want to challenge me?

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 9:30 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
BamBam wrote:This forum would have 1/4 of the posts without the crackpots and their conspiracy theories

I'd happily have less quantity and more quality

We can expect less from you then?

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 9:57 am

Lagon wrote:KID A, you were told years ago to get a good coaching ticket in. Sure, Pivac was right for Scarlets. He produced the goods. Are you telling me you couldn't afford him?.
Ospreys with all their big signings never had the coach to take them over the line.
Regions management has always been a joke. All infighting against each other/WRU, and always looking to blame your strongest competitors-the Irish.
You have only yourselves to blame.

So can I ask you a question:

The Directors of these 4 regions, y'know - people with 20 years experience of running a rugby team, people that have invested huge amounts of their own personal fortunes. People who have devoted their own time, money and effort into keeping these teams going when they could easily have walked away and concentrated on their day jobs - do you seriously think that never once in those 20 years it has dawned on them to spend some money on the single most important person in the rugby entity - a decent head coach?

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 10:01 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Lagon wrote:KID A, you were told years ago to get a good coaching ticket in. Sure, Pivac was right for Scarlets. He produced the goods. Are you telling me you couldn't afford him?.
Ospreys with all their big signings never had the coach to take them over the line.
Regions management has always been a joke. All infighting against each other/WRU, and always looking to blame your strongest competitors-the Irish.
You have only yourselves to blame.

So can I ask you a question:

The Directors of these 4 regions, y'know - people with 20 years experience of running a rugby team, people that have invested huge amounts of their own personal fortunes. People who have devoted their own time, money and effort into keeping these teams going when they could easily have walked away and concentrated on their day jobs - do you seriously think that never once in those 20 years it has dawned on them to spend some money on the single most important person in the rugby entity - a decent head coach?

Ospreys appointed Allen Clarke as theirs...that should answer the question

by Pot Hale Thu 02 May 2019, 10:54 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:

What precisely is interesting that Clancy and the TMO got the decision wrong in your view?

I fail to see what is “interesting” about it.

I find it interesting that a team of 4 officials, complete with television replays, could give a penalty for an act which looks so dangerous and is likely to result in a hefty ban.

Ah so it is the team of four officials - not “Clancy and the TMO” - that you find interesting because they decided to award only a penalty.

Wrong or controversial calls get made by refs/officials on a regular basis during a season. It’s not unique or unusual. What is “interesting” about it?

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 10:59 am

Pot Hale wrote:

Ah so it is the team of four officials - not “Clancy and the TMO” - that you find interesting because they decided to award only a penalty.

Well both. The assistant referee was the closest. He told Clancy what eh saw. And Clancy ignored his advice.

Wrong or controversial calls get made by refs/officials on a regular basis during a season. It’s not unique or unusual. What is “interesting” about it?

It's interesting because the call that was actually made is so different to the call that should have been made. A mistake is a mistake. But this one is a huge one. To not even card a player for an intentional headbutt is crazy. But unsurprising for Pro14 level officiating.

by Collapse2005 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:05 am

Its not really a huge one, Clancy had his back to the incident and the video review available to him was particularly small. I think people want to believe it was some sort of conspiracy but it would be rare for a Munster man to give a Leinster player the steam off his pissssssssssssssss so I can see why Clancy would be inclined to favour Leinster players over Ulster players.

He isn't even that popular in Munster either as he was once assaulted by Shannon RFC staff and they had to pay a 25k fine. I think a Welsh fan once got in trouble for abusing Clancy too.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:08 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Its not really a huge one

The officials didn't card a clear headbutt.

#Pro14Quality

by Collapse2005 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:10 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its not really a huge one

The officials didn't card a clear headbutt.

#Pro14Quality

How can you bring yourself to get out of bed in the morning? It must be so difficult for you knowing we live in a world that this kind of thing happens?

by No 7&1/2 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:22 am

That last point just goes back to the number of citings each season. You can quickly discount that it is only the pro 14 which has them.

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:24 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:That last point just goes back to the number of citings each season. You can quickly discount that it is only the pro 14 which has them.

The irony of it all is that he's complaining about a referee who officiates in the ERCC and at test level so it's clearly not just the Pro14 Rolling Eyes

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:That last point just goes back to the number of citings each season. You can quickly discount that it is only the pro 14 which has them.

Eh? Citings happen if the citing officer thinks a red card offence has occured. This has no bearing on whether the officials got it right or wrong at the time.

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 11:33 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:That last point just goes back to the number of citings each season. You can quickly discount that it is only the pro 14 which has them.

Eh? Citings happen if the citing officer thinks a red card offence has occured. This has no bearing on whether the officials got it right or wrong at the time.

And breath

Laugh

by Pot Hale Thu 02 May 2019, 2:29 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Ah so it is the team of four officials - not “Clancy and the TMO” - that you find interesting because they decided to award only a penalty.

Well both. The assistant referee was the closest. He told Clancy what eh saw. And Clancy ignored his advice.

Wrong or controversial calls get made by refs/officials on a regular basis during a season. It’s not unique or unusual. What is “interesting” about it?

It's interesting because the call that was actually made is so different to the call that should have been made. A mistake is a mistake. But this one is a huge one. To not even card a player for an intentional headbutt is crazy. But unsurprising for Pro14 level officiating.

So it’s both the team of four officials and the AR and Clancy, but not the TMO and Clancy - have I got that right?

And it’s a huge mistake by the officials in your view. But not unsurprising in your view.

So if it’s unsurprising, why is it interesting to draw attention to this particular incident when similar ones are made during the season that don’t gain further comment?

It’s not as if you just threw in a one-liner in an existing thread. You chose to start a new topic with no commentary in your OP just the somewhat enigmatically worded topic title - “Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty...”.

It’s like you’re giving us the Welsh version of the Dance of the Seven Veils - a little flash here, another glimpse there, but never quite revealing all. What is it you’re trying to say really - enough with the teasing.

What is so “interesting” about this incident that you thought it merited a separate topic but chose to provide no coherent reasoning as to why in your OP?

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 2:42 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

So it’s both the team of four officials and the AR and Clancy, but not the TMO and Clancy - have I got that right?

No, Not quite.

-The AR initially did well, but then failed to back his own assertions up to Clancy.
-Clancy then seemed to ignore the AR's view that it was a clear head strike and restart the entire process with the TMO. Clancy then says he is not sure about where the head strike connects - so instead of asking the TMO for his decision (who has a much better view of the footage than him) - he just makes up his own decision. Absolutely bonkers and more or less denounces the need for a TMO in the first place.
-The TMO has seen the footage we have all seen on a big screen. He is to blame for not saying categorically to Clancy that it is a dangerous piece of foul play and deserves a sanction tougher than a penalty.

If there's one officials that isn't to blame it's probably Joy Neville as she didn't really have a case to get involved.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any further explanation.

And it’s a huge mistake by the officials in your view. But not unsurprising in your view. So if it’s unsurprising, why is it interesting to draw attention to this particular incident when similar ones are made during the season that don’t gain further comment?

Because personally I've never seen a clear headbutt been sanctioned with just a penalty in the pro14. Feel free to link to some Pro14 examples if there are any.

It’s not as if you just threw in a one-liner in an existing thread. You chose to start a new topic with no commentary in your OP just the somewhat enigmatically worded topic title - “Interesting that TMO and Clancy only awarded a penalty...”.

Yes I did. I don't believe it's against the laws of the rugby union forum to start a new topic discussing rugby union.

It’s like you’re giving us the Welsh version of the Dance of the Seven Veils - a little flash here, another glimpse there, but never quite revealing all. What is it you’re trying to say really - enough with the teasing.

I believe I have answered this several times.

What is so “interesting” about this incident that you thought it merited a separate topic but chose to provide no coherent reasoning as to why in your OP?

-Are we limited on space or something?
-Do I have to send you a private message to get your blessing before starting a new topic?

I'm going to guess the answer is a big fat no to both of these, which will serve as my answer to this very very weird question.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 2:43 pm

Another "interesting" thing is that McFadden's hearing was supposed to be yesterday - but there's no sign of a decision.

Top notch communication from the Pro14 again.

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 4:43 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Another "interesting" thing is that McFadden's hearing was supposed to be yesterday - but there's no sign of a decision.

Top notch communication from the Pro14 again.

Trying to decide the best book to throw at him obviously

by Collapse2005 Thu 02 May 2019, 4:47 pm

It would be gas if he got off.

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 4:49 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:It would be gas if he got off.

We all agreed at the weekly conspiracy conference call though he'd get banned

by **LondonTiger** Thu 02 May 2019, 4:59 pm

Looking to see what the Pro14 website has to say about the hearing (unable to find a confirmed date just the story that he has been cited from Monday), I found this:

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/02/cluichi-ceathru-ceannais-an-guinness-pro14-beidh-na-hultaigh-ar-thoir-dioltais-agus-beidh-na-muimhnigh-ag-cur-failte-roimh-benetton/

Looks like a brief review of the upcoming 1/4 finals but in a language I am not familiar with (Gaelic?). Is this a common feature or has someone uploaded the wrong version of the story (as I cannot find an English Language version).

Sorry for giving ammunition to Pro14 haters - just found it odd.

by Collapse2005 Thu 02 May 2019, 5:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:It would be gas if he got off.

We all agreed at the weekly conspiracy conference call though he'd get banned

I think it would be funnier to watch the conspiracy theorists try to figure out how it came to pass if he gets off.

by Collapse2005 Thu 02 May 2019, 5:04 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Looking to see what the Pro14 website has to say about the hearing (unable to find a confirmed date just the story that he has been cited from Monday), I found this:

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2019/05/02/cluichi-ceathru-ceannais-an-guinness-pro14-beidh-na-hultaigh-ar-thoir-dioltais-agus-beidh-na-muimhnigh-ag-cur-failte-roimh-benetton/

Looks like a brief review of the upcoming 1/4 finals but in a language I am not familiar with (Gaelic?). Is this a common feature or has someone uploaded the wrong version of the story (as I cannot find an English Language version).

Sorry for giving ammunition to Pro14 haters - just found it odd.

Its in Irish. Its obviously an article for Irish fans (none of which including myself can speak Irish).

Ciúnas bóthar cailín bainne.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 5:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:It would be gas if he got off.

Great for the "league".

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 5:22 pm

Even Andrew Trimble and his mate say the referee completely bottled it:

https://twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/1123696450842574850

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 5:46 pm

6 week ban for McFadden. Which seems odd when the entry is 6 weeks and he has lots of previous.

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 6:08 pm

"While McFadden could have been punished with a lengthier ban, the committee "took into account the player's previous disciplinary record and his good conduct acceptance of culpability, his remorse and his engagement with the instant disciplinary process"."

Laugh

by No 7&1/2 Thu 02 May 2019, 6:22 pm

I've reread your response to me 3 times rugby fan. Do you think there are citings for when the citing officer thinks the ref made the correct decision?

by marty2086 Thu 02 May 2019, 6:28 pm

Someone might want to tell him that a guilty plea gets a reduction

by RugbyFan100 Thu 02 May 2019, 6:42 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've reread your response to me 3 times rugby fan. Do you think there are citings for when the citing officer thinks the ref made the correct decision?

There are citings when the citing officer deems a red card incident, with a red card incident on the pitch being an automatic citing. Comparing citings between leagues has no bearing on quality of match officials.

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