Leinster Rugby 2019/20: Squad & Provincial Team News

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*******HISTORY/OWNERSHIP**********

Leinster Rugby is one of four Branches who are the members (Owners / Constituents) of the IRFU.

Leinster Branch is "owned" by the constituent Clubs, Sections and Affiliated Bodies (e.g. the School & Youths Committees & Referee's Assoc) within the Province. The Representatives of each of these meet monthly as the Executive Committee of Leinster Rugby. Only the AGM of Leinster Rugby has authority above the Executive Committee.

Each Club in Leinster is a registered Sporting Body (NFP status) and Leinster Rugby has a separate registered number as a Sporting Body. The property of Leinster Rugby is held in the names of Trustees elected annually at Leinster Rugby AGM.

in 2019, the IRFU established a property holding company to hold all of the property of the IRFU. Prior to that, all of the property of the IRFU was held in the names of the four IRFU Trustees, again, annually elected at the AGM.

In strictly legal terms, each of the four Provincial bodies are "unincorpoated trusts with tax exempt status as sporting bodies". Old-fashioned but effective structures for the control and preservation of voluntary sporting bodies.

20 Senior Clubs can summon an Extraordinary General Meeting of the IRFU to determine a Resolution proposed by those Clubs. However, nowhere within the IRFU Governing documents are Rugby Clubs defined as "members" of the IRFU.

Notionally, the IRFU is "owned by the Clubs", but indirectly through the four Provincial structures.

***********************

Feel free to add in Leinster Rugby news updates, wider news on provincial teams news, comments as you wish.

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

Still performing Mikey. Never change

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

He’s South African.   Ospreys weren’t good enough in the end as the commentators acknowledged.   Berry was quite lenient on both teams in the red zone until the last ten or so.   Ospreys still couldn’t make it count.  

Dooley got a deserved man of the match and Tommy O’Brien certainly got stuck in when he came on earlier than expected.

carpet baboon wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

Still performing Mikey. Never change

Still a child kicking and screaming. I wonder who you vote for

Pot Hale wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

He’s South African.   Ospreys weren’t good enough in the end as the commentators acknowledged.   Berry was quite lenient on both teams in the red zone until the last ten or so.   Ospreys still couldn’t make it count.  

Dooley got a deserved man of the match and Tommy O’Brien certainly got stuck in when he came on earlier than expected.

Yes I noticed the accent, but he can still be part of the branch. He very well could be in secret if that was anything to go by . We were told that the officiating was going to improve over 3 years ago and it hasn't, it's nowhere near good enough. I do hope Welsh teams leave and find something else if it continues because you can't coach rugby against this sort of thing, it's a mockery.

I do agree with you that Ospreys weren't good enough, but that's old news now. I admire Leinster's tenacity in throwing it around with pace and precision, even in bad weather. They did make mistakes as expected but are always confident enough to keep going because they have a good defence and counter-attack.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

He’s South African.   Ospreys weren’t good enough in the end as the commentators acknowledged.   Berry was quite lenient on both teams in the red zone until the last ten or so.   Ospreys still couldn’t make it count.  

Dooley got a deserved man of the match and Tommy O’Brien certainly got stuck in when he came on earlier than expected.

Yes I noticed the accent, but he can still be part of the branch. He very well could be in secret if that was anything to go by . We were told that the officiating was going to improve over 3 years ago and it hasn't, it's nowhere near good enough. I do hope Welsh teams leave and find something else if it continues because you can't coach rugby against this sort of thing, it's a mockery.

I do agree with you that Ospreys weren't good enough, but that's old news now. I admire Leinster's tenacity in throwing it around with pace and precision, even in bad weather. They did make mistakes as expected but are always confident enough to keep going because they have a good defence and counter-attack.

You heard his accent but still accused him of being apart of the Leinster branch You Welsh really are something.

Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

mikey_dragon wrote:Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

If you hear a guy with a South African accent in a league with South African teams, you should presume that he is apart of the South African branch...

mikey_dragon wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Is tonight’s ref also part of the Leinster branch? It’s shocking how often this is going on 

He’s South African.   Ospreys weren’t good enough in the end as the commentators acknowledged.   Berry was quite lenient on both teams in the red zone until the last ten or so.   Ospreys still couldn’t make it count.  

Dooley got a deserved man of the match and Tommy O’Brien certainly got stuck in when he came on earlier than expected.

Yes I noticed the accent, but he can still be part of the branch. He very well could be in secret if that was anything to go by . We were told that the officiating was going to improve over 3 years ago and it hasn't, it's nowhere near good enough. I do hope Welsh teams leave and find something else if it continues because you can't coach rugby against this sort of thing, it's a mockery.

I do agree with you that Ospreys weren't good enough, but that's old news now. I admire Leinster's tenacity in throwing it around with pace and precision, even in bad weather. They did make mistakes as expected but are always confident enough to keep going because they have a good defence and counter-attack.

Referee: Stuart Berry (SARU, 30th Championship Appearance)
AR1: Aled Evans (WRU), AR2: Ben Breakspear (WRU)
TMO: Tim Hayes (WRU)

The letters after his name SARU indicate which union he is affiliated to.  That is South Africa Rugby Union not LBRFU.  

It’s quite simple to follow really.  When they post the details of the match in advance with the officials’ names, they put the name of the Union after their name.  The other three officials have WRU after their names. That stands for Wales Rugby Union by the way.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

If you hear a guy with a South African accent in a league with South African teams, you should presume that he is apart of the South African branch...

Why would you assume? Steve Walsh was a kiwi working for the ARU. Is your mind this closed off?

Pot I didn’t see the match details. As fly said he could well be a secret agent from the IRFU? Anyway, don’t see this as an attack on Leinster. It wasn’t meant to be. It was more a criticism of the ref’s after we were told that it would improve.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

If you hear a guy with a South African accent in a league with South African teams, you should presume that he is apart of the South African branch...

Why would you assume? Steve Walsh was a kiwi working for the ARU. Is your mind this closed off?

You're FIRST assumption should be he is apart of the SRFU. I can't believe I had to type this.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

If you hear a guy with a South African accent in a league with South African teams, you should presume that he is apart of the South African branch...

Why would you assume? Steve Walsh was a kiwi working for the ARU. Is your mind this closed off?

You're FIRST assumption should be he is apart of the SRFU. I can't believe I had to type this.

But I didn’t assume anything though, you did. Isn’t it you Irish who keep insisting Wayne Barnes is Welsh? Lol!

Mikey do you ever get bored?
I can only assume as you have spent the money on the shoes, big trousers wig and red nose you feel you have to act the clown permanently,

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Are your branches closed off to non-Irish people? Racists.

If you hear a guy with a South African accent in a league with South African teams, you should presume that he is apart of the South African branch...

Why would you assume? Steve Walsh was a kiwi working for the ARU. Is your mind this closed off?

You're FIRST assumption should be he is apart of the SRFU. I can't believe I had to type this.

But I didn’t assume anything though, you did. Isn’t it you Irish who keep insisting Wayne Barnes is Welsh? Lol!

You asked was he apart of the Leinster branch...

mikey_dragon wrote:Pot..... I don’t see this as an attack on Leinster. It wasn’t meant to be. It was more a criticism of the ref’s ??? after we were told that it would improve.

Yes, you did see the match details - we’re agreed on that point.   And don’t worry, the comments that you wrote were not an attack on Leinster Rugby.   As you’ve said yourself, they were too brain-dead, ill-informed and inaccurate to be regarded as anything other than risible so no worries, mate.  

If you‘re trying to offer a criticism of the ref’s performance, can I suggest that you cite some specific examples -  ones that affected both teams to provide balance - with your evidence to support the criticisms that you wish to make?  That would be much more helpful.

Which isn’t me assuming, is it? You took that question very literal, I did expect it to be shrugged off tbh.

Pot Hale wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Pot..... I don’t see this as an attack on Leinster. It wasn’t meant to be. It was more a criticism of the ref’s ??? after we were told that it would improve.

Yes, you did see the match details - we’re agreed on that point.   And don’t worry, the comments that you wrote were not an attack on Leinster Rugby.   As you’ve said yourself, they were too brain-dead, ill-informed and inaccurate to be regarded as anything other than risible so no worries, mate.  

If you‘re trying to offer a criticism of the ref’s performance, can I suggest that you cite some specific examples -  ones that affected both teams to provide balance - with your evidence to support the criticisms that you wish to make?  That would be much more helpful.

I didn’t see them before or after the match. Are honestly trying to tell me what I did and didn’t see? Jeez what lunacy. 

Leinster were driving early and driving in at every scrum I saw, and I see about 10. So either the ref doesn’t know the laws, or he’s picking a winner. Either way he’s too below par for this level. It’s every weekend and I would like for us to move on as it isn’t improving.

So Jack Conan back in training and Leinster hoping that he might be available for selection for the 2-game SA tour in March. Rory O'Loughlin also getting back into shape.

No word still on Dan Leavy and his progress.

I had expected to see some announcements from Leinster this month on contract renewals but nothing as yet.

Rob Kearney (34 in March) and Devin Toner (34 in June) are both out of IRFU contracts at end of season, will Leinster be willing to offer them a provincial contract?

Michael Bent (34 in April), Sean Cronin (34 in May) and Fergus McFadden (34 in June) are also heading for the exit door whilst James Lowe's contract also ends in June and he is still NIQ until November.

Of the other foreigners, Scott Fardy and Joe Tomane finish in June and won't be renewed. But with Toner possibly exiting as well, Leinster have Dowling and Baird coming through from the academy, they'll still want to find an experienced lock to bridge the gap.

Jack Aungier will likely be promoted from Academy to replace Michael Bent. Not sure if Abdaladze is going to cut it, and could well be surpassed by Milne and Salanoa.

Dan Sheehan is looking a good academy prospect to replace Sean Cronin as one of the four hookers.

Backrow is bursting at the seams so no changes there, particularly with Conan and Leavy to come back into the picture - expect a raid by another province over the summer aided by Nucifora.

Gibson-Park seems destined for a club career only and will help Osbourne and O'Sullivan develop at 9. Ross Byrne is getting most of the game time at 10 with Frawley and younger Harry Byrne looking solid so far.

Joe Tomane won't be missed in midfield with another O'Brien coming through, Tommy, to join Conor and Jimmy.

Presumably, Leinster will look to sign Lowe again as the wing stocks look a bit thin on quality. Daly, Adam Byrne trailing behind Dave Kearney for a first team spot.

Fardy and Toner will both be Leinster players next season I reckon.

Leinster always announce their contracts together in April or May. The Central ones normally come out earlier. (Ringrose and possibly one or 2 others like VDF) and maybe the odd one leaks. Last year it was late may iirc. No reason to believe it will be early this season with the pro14 going on til late June.

St John The Enforcer wrote:Fardy and Toner will both be Leinster players next season I reckon.

Leinster always announce their contracts together in April or May. The Central ones normally come out earlier. (Ringrose and possibly one or 2 others like VDF) and maybe the odd one leaks. Last year it was late may iirc. No reason to believe it will be early this season with the pro14 going on til late June.

Good point - don't know why I thought they made announcements earlier. Do you really think that they'll be allowed re-sign Fardy?

So long as Fardy continues to be classed as a lock then he is in with a shout of getting resigned. Chances are that Nucifora looks for one of the backrow production line to be sent to another province in return (but which one?).

Risk with Fardy will be length of contract also, Leinster could only be handing out a 1 season contract at a time as he's 35 (36 in July) so if someone in France or Japan waved a 2 year contract he could be tempted.

Maybe I'm imagining it, but hasn't Fardy already decided in his own mind that his Leinster days are over? Thought I read something where it appeared he already has his mind on new adventures, i.e., is he actually waiting anxiously for a reprieve that allows him stay?
Wasn't my impression of the conundrum.

He's been a quality signing and owes us nothing, would be delighted if he gets sorted with what he wants next.

Oh Leinster fans would love that he stayed of course - and even better if that was his urge and wish.
Whatever it is about Leinster head hunters, they are the best in the business because they always seem to get one of these boys that absolutely returns the faith by the bucket load.

Yeah a word on Fardy, he’s been brilliant for Leinster. Always looked like he wore the jersey with pride, and was a great captain for the young guys coming through. I’m not sure if he could last another year at this level.

Toner possibly one more year, and despite recent comments I don’t think he’s at all past it.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Toner possibly one more year, and despite recent comments I don’t think he’s at all past it.

Ironically, much more at home with high energy Leinster than with low energy Ireland.  I know the quality levels are different between Provincial and International but I kinda always find that funny in a way. Slow, lumbering Toner, Leinster veteran.

Fardy definitely wants to stay and I would be surprised if Nucky Fora would object given the number of players Leinster are spitting out for Ireland. Have a look at the number of under 25s in the matchday squad from Sunday. 6 and all from Leinster.

Toner is a year younger than sexton and 2 years younger than Fardy.

Fardy has much lower mileage but Toner could play rugby for another 5 years easily. Whether that is at Leinster level for all 5 is another matter but many locks have gone on til they are 40. Doc, Brad Thorn, Simon Shaw off the top of my head. Toner is 33.

Sorry. Stockdale is a 7th. Perhaps the Snyman signing might be seen as a barrier but again with james Ryan and a 3 very promising lads coming through at Leinster it will be fine.

In fact the 3 coming behind could be what dictates the length of Toner's career rather than a lack of youth on his part.

We'll take Fardy at Ulster if you don't want him!

Awesome player, right up there with the best NIE players, I think because he's not as spectacular in the loose as someone like Elsom or Nacewa, or as big a name as Brad Thorn his contribution isn't as visible but he is up there.

Back away from the Fardy there buddy.

Loins v Weegies:

Huge Keenan; not Rob Kearney, J O’Brien, Tomane, Jame sLowe; Harry Byrne, Luke McGrath;

Dooley, Cronin, Michael Bent, Ryan Baird, Scott Fardy (capt), Josh Murphy, Will Connors, Max Deegan.

Replacements: James Tracy, Michael Milne, Jack Aungier, Jack Dunne, Rhys Ruddock, Jamison Gibson-Park, Ciarán Frawley, Fergus McFadden.

55-19 to the team and hat-tricks for Baird and Dave Kearney.

Superb contribution from every player. If Cullen and Lancaster can bottle this and keep uncorking it, they have the next team ready to take over.

Dooley and Bent have fronted up brilliantly in the absence of Healy, Furlong and Porter. Baird and Dunne can back up Molony whenever Fardy/Toner hang up their boots. Connors and Murphy got through a mountain of flanker work. Byrne and Frawley are interchangeable at 10. And the trio of O’Briens cover off the midfield never mind O’Loughlin. Dave Kearney is throwing off the years and having a mint of a scoring season. Young Keenan at FB needs a bit more work.

Leinster now have a tricky time ahead. Next two matches are away in SA against Cheetahs and Kings. And a week later is the Heineken quarterfinal. How do they get some of their Ireland cup players back into the fold? Even those players could be off peak as they have to sit around for 3 weeks with the Itsly match cancelled and an on-fire French team awaiting them. Does Cullen pick some of them to travel to SA to get some game time?

Baird had a great game. Glasgow threatened in spurts but couldn’t mount a sustained challenge. Dooley did good work. Bent was adequate which is huge for him. Depth and the youth coming through looks promising. Agree on Keenan, there is something missing there, he makes a gap but continuously doubles back into the defensive cover. Starting to doubt he will mature and learn from it.

Transferring this point about the background to the squad over to this thread.

Looking at the background for the players in the senior squad and the academy, here's an updated analysis from the one I posted over the weekend:

Foreign-born - 8 players

Georgia - Castleknock Community School - 1
NZ - Hawera HS - 1
NZ - Gisborne, Auckland - 1
NZ - Palmerston Nth - 1
Aus - Sydney - 1
USA - Hawaii - Kahuku - 1
Canada - St Michaels - 1
UK - Gloucester - 1

Irish-born - 56 players
Carlow - Clongowes 2
Dublin - Gonzaga - 1
Dublin - St Andrew's - 2
Dublin - Belvedere - 2
Dublin - Clongowes - 2
Dublin - St. Michaels 15
Dublin - St Fintans - 1
Dublin - Blackrock - 8
Dublin - Skerries Community - 1
Dublin - St Mary's - 1
Dublin - Millfield, UK - 1
Kildare - Naas CBS - 1
Kildare - Clongowes 2
Kildare - Knockbeg, Carlow - 1
Kildare - Newbridge -2
Limerick - Ardscoil Ris - 1
Louth - Clongowes - 2
Mayo - Blackrock -1
Meath - Castleknock College - 1
Meath - Belvedere - 1
Offaly, Birr, Cistercian Roscrea - 1
Offaly - St Brendan's Community, Birr - 1
Westmeath, Athlone - Marist - 1
Westmeath, Mullingar - 1
Wexford - New Ross - 2
Wicklow - St Gerards Bray - 1
Wicklow - Wesley - 1

Players come from 9 of the 12 counties - Kilkenny, Longford and Laois not represented.

The Big 6 Schools who only play in the Schools Senior Cup but not in the Schools Senior League provided 37 players to current squad:

Clongowes - 8 (8 titles)
Blackrock - 9 (69 titles)
St Marys - 1 (5 titles)
Belvedere - 3 (12 titles)
Terenure - 0 (10 titles)
St Michael's - 16 (3 titles)

Leinster Senior Schools League of whom 10 also participate in the Senior Cup have 9 players:

Newbridge 2 (2 cup titles)
Castleknock 1 (8 titles)
Cistercian Roscrea 1 (1 title)
St Andrews 2 (4 titles)
St Gerard's 1
Wesley 1(1 title)
Gonzaga College 1
CBC Monkstown 0
Kilkenny College 0
Templeogue College 0
Temple Carrig 0
Kings Hospital 0

Lower league/Cup teams have 11 players

St Fintans, Sutton 1
Skerries Community 1
Marist, Athlone 1
St Brendan's Community, Birr 1
CBS, Naas 1
Knockbeg, Carlow 1
Ardscoil Ris, Limerick 1
New Ross, Wexford 2
Castleknock Community School 1
Mullingar School 1

The 3 not represented, Kilkenny (I'd rationalise as being predominantly hurling centric), Laois (surprised on this one, would've thought 1 or 2) and Longford (sparse enough starting numbers?). Surprised that the squad consists of 9 counties, that to me is a positive fact I'd expected to be publicised a bit more.

And just when you think the Senior Cup has become predictable with finalists/winners, the semifinals finished yesterday with an all-Kildare final now set up for St Patrick's Day final at the RDS.

Newbridge beat the highly fancied favourites - St Michaels - and will now take on Clongowes Wood.

Clongowes - 8-time winners - the last in 2010-11.
Newbridge - 2 time winners - the last in 1970.

Hi Ladyboys. One of your ex players has signed for us short-term, Conor Maguire. We literally don't know anything about him, care to shed some light?

I'm not expecting any miracles but on the other hand he could be another Tadhg Beirne .

mikey_dragon wrote:Hi Ladyboys. One of your ex players has signed for us short-term, Conor Maguire. We literally don't know anything about him, care to shed some light?

I'm not expecting any miracles but on the other hand he could be another Tadhg Beirne .

Loosehead with Old Wesley RFC. Played a couple of games for Leinster A team (that won the Celtic Cup this season) and with Connacht Eagles this season. Played for Ireland Club XV this season as well. He's on a trial so getting on the bench so soon is promising.

There's a few others around the provinces who may move to GB for next season.

Bryan Byrne - young hooker at Leinster, and twin brother of LH Prop, Ed Byrne has been given the news that Bristol are interested in signing him as injury cover and Leinster are not interested in renewing.

Garry Ringrose is in negotiations with IRFU as his current contract ends in June, so he'll hopefully be a central contract player for next season which will ease the budget.

Conor Oliver, former Leinster Academy, now with Munster, is off to England, as is his club-mate, Sean O'Connor.

Interestingly, another Leinster-born player, Jack Regan, who joined the Ulster Academy is heading to NZ to study and try get train/play opportunities there.

Pot Hale wrote:Bryan Byrne - young hooker at Leinster, and twin brother of LH Prop, Ed Byrne has been given the news that Bristol are interested in signing him as injury cover and Leinster are not interested in renewing.

Garry Ringrose is in negotiations with IRFU as his current contract ends in June, so he'll hopefully be a central contract player for next season which will ease the budget.

Conor Oliver, former Leinster Academy, now with Munster, is off to England, as is his club-mate, Sean O'Connor.

Interestingly, another Leinster-born player, Jack Regan, who joined the Ulster Academy is heading to NZ to study and try get train/play opportunities there.

Thanks for the info Pot. Byrne has already joined Bristol. It'll be interesting to see where Oliver ends Up, I've always rated him.

Joe Tomane to dragons....

mikey_dragon wrote:Joe Tomane to dragons....

That would be good possibly. It took him a season and a half to start showing his stuff before his 2-year contract ends.

I actually do believe he’s a realistic target for us, and would certainly be a step up on Dixon and Morgan. Leinster aren’t renewing his contract?

It would be difficult to renew Tomane, there are 3 decent centres (all called O'Brien) coming through the academy and there is Henshaw, Ringrose first choice with Rory O'Loughlin there or there abouts

With the two week incubation period for the covid19, we'll be 4 life cycles into Ireland and about 6 life cycles into UK by the time the HC quarter finals come around. Given the rate of spread of this, what's the chances of those fixtures (a) going ahead and (b) being behind closed doors?

mikey_dragon wrote:I actually do believe he’s a realistic target for us, and would certainly be a step up on Dixon and Morgan. Leinster aren’t renewing his contract?

Generally, foreign capped internationals cannot have their contracts renewed. Even if there's likely to be another provincial raid by end of this season - we won't be short of midfielders. As BWS says - we've got O'Loughlin, Conor O'Brien, Jimmy O'Brien, Tommy O'Brien (academy), and two other fellas called Ringrose and Henshaw. There's also another academy player, Gavin Mullin (son of former Irish international Brendan) finishing his third year but don't know about his future yet. He played in the Celtic Cup this season (got a hat-trick in one of the matches), so we'll see.

Tomane turned 30 last month, so he's got a few years left in his legs - certainly at 12, whatever about on the wing.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:With the two week incubation period for the covid19, we'll be 4 life cycles into Ireland and about 6 life cycles into UK by the time the HC quarter finals come around. Given the rate of spread of this, what's the chances of those fixtures (a) going ahead and (b) being behind closed doors?

There's a good chance that the H Cup QF against Saracens will be affected - likely behind closed doors since they can't afford to postpone.
UK government seems to have a different attitude to some in Europe about mass gathering events. So Exeter v Saints might be in front of crowd.
Toulouse v Ulster and Clermont v Racing likely to be subject to the French government restrictions.

Newbridge College seem to have had a good dose of skill and coaching this season. Their junior side have also made the Junior Cup final to play Blackrock. A possible double for the Kildare school?