ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Table

New Zealand	5	9	1.591
England	5	8	1.862
Australia	5	8	0.812
India	4	7	1.029
Bangladesh	5	5	-0.27
Sri Lanka	5	4	-1.778
West Indies	5	3	0.272
South Africa	5	3	-0.193
Pakistan	5	3	-1.933
Afghanistan	5	0	-2.089

Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30 
10:30 England vs South Africa  (The Oval)

Fri, May 31 
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1 
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2 
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3 
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5 
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6 
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7 
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8 
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9 
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10 
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12 
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13 
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14 
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15 
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16 
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17 
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18 
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19 
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20 
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21 
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22 
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23 
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25 
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26 
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27 
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28 
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30 
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1 
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow

I'm not ready to call the semi finals just yet. NZ beating India tomorrow, or Windies beating England will blow it wide open, with Windies in a decent position to capitalise. Agree though, results the other ways and some of the games might as well be over 50s tiddlywinks contests for all the effect they'll have on who qualifies

The most Pakistan of Pakistan performances today

VTR wrote:I'm not ready to call the semi finals just yet. NZ beating India tomorrow, or Windies beating England will blow it wide open, with Windies in a decent position to capitalise. Agree though, results the other ways and some of the games might as well be over 50s tiddlywinks contests for all the effect they'll have on who qualifies

NZ India is going to be a washout on current forecasts, which suits both of them really and almost sews up 3 of the spots.
England West Indies is the last chance for someone else to really stay in the race. It would take a real slide from one of the top teams and rain to stay off for anyone to gatecrash it if England win that. Fortunately there should be a full match for that!

I wouldnt 100% call it of course but the creeping inevitability has kept on going, bar that one loss for England.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:The most Pakistan of Pakistan performances today

I dunno ....
..I think the abysmal fielding was just incompetance rather than deliberate
Noone chewed a ball
Noones failed a drugs test
No bottle caps on show
They could all run between the wickets

Interesting game indeed. The cricket wasn't of the highest quality, but a game that kept you interested. The good, bad and ugly, all versions of Pakistan appeared in the same game. They let the new ball advantage slip, dropped catches that wouldn't be put down in village cricket, and just when Australia was about to takeoff way beyond them, made a fabulous comeback with the ball. Then they got off to an ordinary start, recovered and seemed to have set things up nicely, then fell apart and nearly came back from the dead to again collapse in a heap. In between all that, Australia took enough advantage to get through.
Warner played much better than he did against India, he played a big part in the loss against India, and he played a huge part in setting up today's win.

Just back and caught up. An interesting game but Pakistan blew an opportunity there. Imam and Hafeez got out to innocuous balls in quick succession when they were starting to cruise. Credit to Australia for seizing on those thrown away wickets.

The Australia bowling lineup is vulnerable though. Starc and Cummins are a fantastic opening pair but the change bowlers can be targeted. It still seems a very odd decision to leave Hazelwood out the squad.

Forecast has improved for today, I reckon there's a decent chance of a result, though won't be the full match. Could turn into a bit of a lottery and will close the gap in ability, giving NZ a better chance of a win

I guess it depends on how heavy the showers are VTR but you seem a lot more confident of getting a game than I am. Part of the issue will be just how wet everything is to start with, covers or not. Its still raining in Nottingham right now and theres patches coming across all day. 
Maybe we should do a bonus round on the tipping competition ... guess how many overs will be played at all.

I'm confident on the basis it's a Test match ground, I think they have until 5pm to get the match going? Looking at the forecast, I think we might see play by 1pm or thereabouts. It is hard to predict, I'm going to say 25 overs each

VTR wrote:Forecast has improved for today, I reckon there's a decent chance of a result, though won't be the full match. Could turn into a bit of a lottery and will close the gap in ability, giving NZ a better chance of a win

NZ is a dangerous side....but it's their first game against a BIG side in this tournament.
It appears that the pitch and weather favors the seamers......so it's possible to see Shami come in for Kuldeep

Or alternatively Shankar comes in at No. 4...since Rahul moves to open........ is also a Stoinis type seam bowler......so India may retain Kuldeep.....and this would be my preferred scenario

Toss becomes important as the side batting second has.....better visibility of rain affected targets

Agreed, that and I always think a shorter match helps a weaker team. Say you had a strong top 4, but a bit flaky after that, doesn't matter as much over a shorter match. Or a Maxwell type who will get you 20 off ten balls but then get out becomes more dangerous. Watch it now be rained off after 6 overs

Yeah its generally the case that anything that adds a lottery element to the game will increase the chances for a weaker team to cause an upset. if there is play it will almost certainly be interrupted.
Its hard to write off NZ as that much of a weaker team mind.

I honestly don't think either side will be too fussed if its rained off. 1 point would leave both looking very comfortable. 

A big shame because it is the first chance we get to really see how much of a force NZ might be. Currently they are still flying under the radar a bit but the good start (and other missing out on probable wins through rain) seems to have solidified their dark horse status. 

With it being Trent Bridge someone like Pandya could have a big impact on a shortened game clearing the ropes if he gets a chance. Also agree with bat second in this case. We have seen a shift back to batting first in a few games pay off, but having better sight of revisions often favours the batting second team. That said most of the delay is likely to be before the start, so both sides will know its a short game ... the only question will be if its revised further down and when.

Following on from some recent posts and apologies if this has already been covered but the tricky thing with having a reserve day is deciding when on day one that there will be a second day and for how many overs it will be.

Obviously there's no issue if it completely lashes down and the whole of day one is rained off. You just start on day two and hope to have a full day.

However, if late on day one after the rain has stopped and it's reckoned you can squeeze 40 overs in, do you then have a twenty20 game or stick with 50 overs per side agreeing that play can start on day one and will continue into day two?  

Similarly, if the rain comes for the first time when the side batting second has completed, say. just over 20 overs, do you rely on our friend Duckworth Lewis or invite everyone back on the reserve day to finish the game?

Fair to say, the tv companies prefer a result in one day. Not sure it's so clear cut with paying spectators - they want to see as much cricket as they can although that has to be weighed up against travel costs, time off work, etc, and probably the particular match situation.

It's not just a preference but also a logistics and costs issue. Apparently it would add about 40% to the cost of putting the world cup on to have full reserve days with all the additional sets of equipment and personnel required which is just not feasible. Even without TV existing there would still be the need to have DRS kit in two places at once, and with some days have 2 games on you could end up with 3 being played at the same time.
Most of the cost exists whether the reserve days are used or not. Had the weather been as last year we wouldn't have had a need for any of them.
The model of this world cup with the long group stage reduces the impact of rained off games, it's not like one where theres only 4 group games and two rained off for a team absolutely decides their fate.

Hold it indoors or in the desert. Or deal with the weather being a thing.

Wouldn't expect there to be a completed game today. There isn't a forecast for persistent rain, like at Bristol the other day, but there is a prediction of infrequent heavy showers, like the one that is currently happening now. New Zealand certainly won't mind getting a point out of this encounter.

Tomorrow looks fine, but the three weekend games are all doubtful.

Gooseberry wrote:It's not just a preference but also a logistics and costs issue. Apparently it would add about 40% to the cost of putting the world cup on to have full reserve days with all the additional sets of equipment and personnel required which is just not feasible. Even without TV existing there would still be the need to have DRS kit in two places at once, and with some days have 2 games on you could end up with 3 being played at the same time.
Most of the cost exists whether the reserve days are  used or not. Had the weather been as last year we wouldn't have had a need for any of them.
The model of this world cup with the long group stage reduces the impact of rained off games, it's not like one where theres only 4 group games and two rained off for a team absolutely decides their fate.

Hold it indoors or in the desert. Or deal with the weather being a thing.

Yeah, that's the conclusion I was coming to really, albeit with little enthusiasm, as far as the group games go. A reserve day sounds good but does throw up a host of practical issues and expenses.

Was surprised to be reminded that the previous world cup held in England had reserve days for all matches. Wouldn't have recalled that without prompt, though do remember England going out as they lost to India on the reserve day. Can't remember if a no result would have sent them through though!

Shows how things have moved on anyway, its not really something you could expect nowadays

1 point for a no result would have seen us through to the super sixes and India knocked out. As it was with three teams on 6 points it went on NRR with India and Zimbabwe the others.

It should also be noted that there were games in 1999 that could not complete despite having the spare days.

Theres a ground inspection going on ......

Its getting depressing.........I think this game too will be rained out.
When in Eng there should be a mandatory reserve day

Another inspection at 1:30, but apparently the outfield is pretty saturated with the constant rain over the past 24 hours. More heavy rain forecast this afternoon, so I think we can write this game off. A shame.

KP_fan wrote:Its getting depressing.........I think this game too will be rained out.
When in Eng there should be a mandatory reserve day

What about the games in Wales?

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Its getting depressing.........I think this game too will be rained out.
When in Eng there should be a mandatory reserve day

What about the games in Wales?

Wales don't have a separate international cricket team. So Eng in cricket territory covers theirs too I think

although I wonder why Scotland also doesn't play it's international cricket under England and gets added like a full County....though at one time they did I think when Rahul Dravid was their overseas player

Or alternatively they could all play international cricket as Great Britain, like they participate in Olympics

It is impacting the flow of the World Cup, all these washouts. But I'm not sure if reserve days are the answer.

You'd think the washed out day (if there is any play) would be under trickier batting conditions. If there is a bit of sun on the reserve day it might be easier to bat.

Is a situation where two teams get materially different conditions better than both teams getting 1 point?

Interesting article on the BBC website about how Sri Lanka cope, getting the square covered in under a minute and effectively covering the whole pitch within 10 minutes of rain. The issue isn't that it is heavy rain throughout the entire day, but any gaps in the weather aren't sufficient to dry the pitch and get the game going.

If we could get players off quicker, get the pitch covered quicker and more importantly get players back on quicker, we'd get much more cricket in.

Reserve days are unlikely to have saved any of these matches.

We might as well take Ireland back under as well KPF. India can have Pakistan and Bangladesh back. 
Its not like the West indies is even a country right?

It's just sheer bad luck that the wettest June ever recorded in the UK just happens to coincide with the Cricket World Cup. LT is right - I think most of the abandoned games would have fared no better with a reserve day. As an example, the weather in Nottingham is equally wet tomorrow as it is today.

Can I go onto the rugby forum and tell them that a match in Cardiff is actually being played in England?

KP_fan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Its getting depressing.........I think this game too will be rained out.
When in Eng there should be a mandatory reserve day

What about the games in Wales?

Wales don't have a separate international cricket team. So Eng in cricket territory covers theirs too I think

although I wonder why Scotland also doesn't play it's international cricket under England and gets added like a full County....though at one time they did I think when Rahul Dravid was their overseas player

Or alternatively they could all play international cricket as Great Britain, like they participate in Olympics

Once the Empire is restored, we'll all be playing under a British flag anyways. England (+ Wales + Scotland + Ireland) v the Raj.

Match abandoned. This is frustrating but I can't see that reserve days are the answer as others have noted. This has been freakishly bad weather, pretty much solid rain for a lot of the country for four days. Am not sure of prospects for tomorrow, a washout would be a better result for England than for the a Windies though

WI must be licking their lips at the prospect of a shortened game tomm...ideally a 20-20

KP_fan wrote:WI must be licking their lips at the prospect of a shortened game tomm...ideally a 20-20

Forecast is dry.

England absolutely annihilated the West Indies in the 3 T20s in march

Main focus of the rained off games is understandably the frustrating implications for the World Cup. Longer term it could serve as a financial hammer blow for the county grounds who are in dire need of income from these internationals.

Forecast in Southampton is better tomorrow thankfully. England vs Windies at the Rose Bowl should be a tantalising match. I expect Windies will target the England batting lineup with their pace and short pitched bowling and England's batsmen will probably back themselves to take it on. It should be a fascinating game.

How is the income being split? Are the ICC hiring the grounds and taking the ticket price or do the grounds get it as per tests etc?

Just to sum up how unfortunate it's been with the weather it's now sunny at Trent Bridge. It's not just the freakish amount of rain and rainy days but also the weather seems to have been stalking the schedule!


And tomorrow is a corker and meangingful.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the toss. With uncertainty over how pitches are performing more sides have wanted to bat first to size up the best lengths to bowl, but England are very much natural chasers.
It's slightly longer boundaries at the rose bowl which means Gayle might have to run a bit more.
Sounds like Buttler is fit but Wood likely to miss put. Moeen may return, possibly depending on how they read the pitch. Andre Russel apparently still struggling a bit which is limiting his bowling and fielding more than anything but he still walks into the side.
Should be fireworks and hopefully 100 overs.

Next time host it all in Essex where it never rains. Or indoors on IPL sized pitches.

It's a bigger game for the Windies than it is England. If England lose - a worrying blow for them, but they should still make it through to the final four. If Windies lose - effectively out of the tournament, with only one win from four, and still India to come.

Expecting a comfortable England win, but the Windies have the potential to cause issues with their fast, short-pitched bowling. Never rule out an English collapse, after all!

Gooseberry wrote:How is the income being split? Are the ICC hiring the grounds and taking the ticket price or do the grounds get it as per tests etc?

Just to sum up how unfortunate it's been with the weather it's now sunny at Trent Bridge. It's not just the freakish amount of rain and rainy days but also the weather seems to have been stalking the schedule!


And tomorrow is a corker and meangingful.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with the toss. With uncertainty over how pitches are performing more sides have wanted to bat first to size up the best lengths to bowl, but England are very much natural chasers.  
It's slightly longer boundaries at the rose bowl which means Gayle might have to run a bit more.
Sounds like Buttler is fit but Wood likely to miss put. Moeen may return, possibly depending on how they read the pitch. Andre Russel apparently still struggling a bit which is limiting his bowling and fielding more than anything but he still walks into the side.
Should be fireworks and hopefully 100 overs.

Next time host it all in Essex where it never rains. Or indoors on IPL sized pitches.

I couldn't tell you about revenue from gate sales, Goose. The big blow in these situations is all the other revenue, namely alcohol and food sales that get lost. When Riverside hosted their first Ashes test it was expected to bring £20 million to the local economy.

Building Chester-le-Street into an international ground followed by a rained off T20, 4 day Ashes test and the abysmally attended 2014 test between England and Sri Lanka (which Durham CCC bid/paid close to £1 million to host) played a large role in Durham CCC going bankrupt in 2016.

Some richer councils can weather those storms - pun intended. Eastleigh bought the Rose Bowl from Hampshire for £6.5m and Cardiff wrote of around £4.5m of debt for Glamorgan. Some counties have a lot of money to spare, namely Surrey and Middlesexs. Others don't have those luxuries though sadly.

As for the game tomorrow I agree it should be a corker. Expect Russell will play and bowl 2-3 over bursts consisting largely of very fast bouncers, lots of glaring at the batsman and unbearably fawning commentary if Michael Vaughan has the mic!

I really hope Buttler plays, both because he is Jos Buttler and because the battle between him and the Windies bouncers will be fascinating. Buttler plays hook and pull so well but he will just keep taking it on, often regardless of the field.

Duty281 wrote:It's a bigger game for the Windies than it is England. If England lose - a worrying blow for them, but they should still make it through to the final four. If Windies lose - effectively out of the tournament, with only one win from four, and still India to come.

Expecting a comfortable England win, but the Windies have the potential to cause issues with their fast, short-pitched bowling. Never rule out an English collapse, after all!

Not all that comfortable for England were they to lose to WI...

They'd then have lost to two mid-ranked teams and still have to play the other three "seeded" countries. Wouldn't be out on their ear but there would certainly be mounting pressure.

Think both sides will see this as a very important game. And I'd agree with your summary of the chances for the contest...

I'd say it's absolutely crucial for England. It's a hard set of fixtures left if they're chasing a place

100% agree. This is a must win for England. If they lose, the pressure will be right on them. The loss to Pakistan has brought this pressure on them and its so important that they see off the first 10 overs without a loss. The Windies are incredibly potent in the first 10 overs.

Yep, its win or go home for the Windies and squeaky bum time for England. The West Indies know they can win this, and theyve managed to motivate themselves to turn up with fire for the last few months.
After yesterdays rain 3 of the 4 spots are almost certainly sewn up, if England win this then the rest of qualification becomes about pride and seedings short of something absolutely freakish. From a drama perspective I wouldnt mind england losing. From having to read kpfs smug comments perspective ...they had better win

The big sub plot for today is of course Archer ... pretty sure the west indies quicks will be very happy if they get to bowl at him!

I don't think it's as sewn up as some people think. India are in a pretty strong position with their win against Australia and their No Result off New Zealand, but there haven't been any other games between the four favourites.

Pakistan could knock off India and South Africa could knock off New Zealand in the next round and the tournament would be opened back up.

New Zealand also still have to play, Windies, Pakistan, England and Australia and could end up losing the 4 of them.

I don't think they'll be any of the teams counting their chickens at this stage, even if England beat West Indies today.

Overcast with chances of showers on the south coast. I assume whoever wins the toss will field.

Gooseberry wrote:
Just to sum up how unfortunate it's been with the weather it's now sunny at Trent Bridge. It's not just the freakish amount of rain and rainy days but also the weather seems to have been stalking the schedule!

It did not stay sunny for long. Rained for much of the night and still raining now.

I have a horrible feeling about today, I think it's memories of World Cup travesties past haunting me. I am having vivid nightmares of Ian Austin coming on first change, Ravi Bopara striding out to bat and Monty fielding.

Its going to be ok isn't it?

-I would be very happy to finally see some cricket....it's depressing to keep checking CI to only find.....the charade of next umpires' inspection due in 1 hour

-On the game itself....it's a must win for England's morale and psychological situation..... a loss here would mean all that Eng have won is against SA....who everyone is beating & BD, that no one is expected to lose against.

Loss would still leave them with decent chance to be in the pack of NZ, Pak, WI, Eng for 2 semi final spots....but would put them under immense pressure as they come in with home-fans' tournament favorite tag.

-The Game for me stands 50-50....for this is a classical situation where rankings won't matter.....ability to handle pressure and raise the level of game is all that counts.
WI raise their game against Eng like against no other side.......the reasons for that well explained in the BBC documentary "Fire in Babylon"
And we have seen how they raised their game in T20 final right at the end and in last two tests series in Eng and in WI.

And I would gamble on Gayle delivering his one in 10 game smashing big hundred today to dent Eng

robbo277 wrote:I don't think it's as sewn up as some people think. India are in a pretty strong position with their win against Australia and their No Result off New Zealand, but there haven't been any other games between the four favourites.

Pakistan could knock off India and South Africa could knock off New Zealand in the next round and the tournament would be opened back up.

New Zealand also still have to play, Windies, Pakistan, England and Australia and could end up losing the 4 of them.

I don't think they'll be any of the teams counting their chickens at this stage, even if England beat West Indies today.

Not counting chickens but NZ are better than all but 2 of those sides, and can lose 4 and still qualify. Its that kind of "something remarkable" that it takes if West Indies lose today to open things up.
Im also looking at West Indies as a team who are likely to fade as fatigue hits. Obviously any team is suspectable to injuries (England have their own issues) but the West Indies dont have a strong bench, Russel's already struggling and ideally would be sitting out a fixture, and as with Australia their best quicks are shouldering a big workload. Gayles got to be a working injury concern.
Even if Pakistan turn over India, which is pretty unlikely, they will only be level on points having played a game more and most likely still with a poorer NRR. And they still wont be as good a side.
I feel like a stuck record but every fixture its getting closer to being sewn up, only the Pakistan England game has really gone against the trend of the top 4 being them Aus India and NZ. Funnily enough those are the best 4 sides at the cup.
Englands run in is tough, and the loss to Pakistan makes them the only one of that top 4 that are really vulnerable to anything other than a freakish run of results. if they win this game then they also go into that category. If they dont then Pakistan and the West Indies will have a sniff again.

Of course teams wont switch off an assume its a done deal, but NZ must be feeling pretty comfortable with points in the bag right now. For the absolutely if England win its near impossible for them to get overhauled by 4 teams and out of the semis.

LondonTiger wrote:Overcast with chances of showers on the south coast. I assume whoever wins the toss will field.

Yep, though whatever the conditions are, I would expect the side winning the toss to field. England are the masters of the chase, while the Windies would want first go at firing bouncers.

VTR wrote:I have a horrible feeling about today, I think it's memories of World Cup travesties past haunting me. I am having vivid nightmares of Ian Austin coming on first change, Ravi Bopara striding out to bat and Monty fielding.

Its going to be ok isn't it?

Probably. England, surprisingly enough, have a strong record against the West Indies in World Cups, having won five on the bounce (1987 x2, 1992, 2007 and 2011).

KP_fan wrote:
WI raise their game against Eng like against no other side.......the reasons for that well explained in the BBC documentary "Fire in Babylon"

You took something very different to me from that INDEPENDENT documentary. Sure the Tony Greig moment came up, but most of the WI anger seemed to be aimed at Aussies.