ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 2

First topic message reminder :

Table

New Zealand	5	9	1.591
England	5	8	1.862
Australia	5	8	0.812
India	4	7	1.029
Bangladesh	5	5	-0.27
Sri Lanka	5	4	-1.778
West Indies	5	3	0.272
South Africa	5	3	-0.193
Pakistan	5	3	-1.933
Afghanistan	5	0	-2.089

Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30 
10:30 England vs South Africa  (The Oval)

Fri, May 31 
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1 
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2 
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3 
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5 
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6 
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7 
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8 
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9 
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10 
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12 
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13 
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14 
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15 
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16 
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17 
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18 
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19 
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20 
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21 
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22 
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23 
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25 
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26 
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27 
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28 
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30 
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1 
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow

Duty281 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Not sure how it's even close to 50-50 to be honest. .

That's not an honest , but an emotional assessment, similar to the one you did for Pak-Eng game
But that's OK....every team needs passionate die-hard fans  

It's a very honest assessment, just like the England-Pakistan one. Bookmakers don't see it being anywhere near to 50-50 either.

Yep, honest. Nowhere near 50-50.

As I said before the tournament started, the West Indies are a very poor side who are in the bottom tier of nations at this World Cup, alongside Sri Lanka and Afghanistan and Bangladesh. Perhaps somewhat emotionally , before a 50 over World Cup starts, the Windies are always elevated above their standing (due mainly to past glories) by the media and some fans, a bit like Brazil in the football equivalent. Some in the media were talking up the chances of the Windies reaching the semi-finals - an utterly ludicrous suggestion for a team that hasn't won a bilateral ODI series in years. These fairy tales were elevated somewhat by Pakistan gifting the Windies a victory in the opening game.

Now we've returned to reality and can see the clear gulf between a genuine contender, like England, and a no-hoper, like the West Indies.

Morgan has said they’ll do a risk assessment on the players but if there is no elevated risk to expect to see the strongest team against Afghanistan and I’d assume Sri Lanka.

One of the guys I play rugby with has a problematic hamstring and it’s not really something you bounce back from in 4 days, even if it was only a minor strain, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Roy rested. Running about in the field for 3.5 hours then going to try and bat the way he does is not a good idea if you’re not at 100%. I’m sure Vince would relish the chance to get a bat before the big 3 and the finals rounds.

I’m not too sure about back spasms. Morgan was in pain after the game but with 3 days of massage I think there’s a decent chance he’d be fit. I don’t think they’ll be rushing to try Moeen or Woakes in the middle order from the start against Afghanistan, so I’d be more confident we’d see the captain take the field.

Vaughan has said he thinks England have stumbled across this line up and will probably stick with it now. Root’s performance has come at a bad time for Moeen with him leaving and rejoining the squad.

Roy (Vince), Bairstow, Root, Morgan (Moeen), Buttler, Stokes, Woakes, Plunkett, Archer, Rashid, Wood

With Dawson and Curran as the spare guys.

Woakes form with the bat won't help Moeen either. I still think England will find room for him as Morgan often turns to Moeen in the all important middle overs.

Stokes is almost a spare bowler at the moment which is a good place for England to be though.

The depth in the England bowling unit is it's strength. There are more dangerous strike bowlers going, though Archer is alleviating that somewhat, but England have depth to bowl a consistent 50 overs. It's an interesting contrast to the Australia bowling attack where Starc and Cummins are outstanding then the change bowlers tail off.

Im not sure it was entirely stumbled across to be honest. It was said when Moeen was left out that it wasnt to give him the break but for playing reasons. Theyve also looked at Root as a second spinner previously, albeit to accommodate and extra bat rather than retaining 7 bowling options.
I do fancy the domination of seam in this tournament combined with Moeens slump in batting for and medicore career bowling has done for him as much as having a kid. Dawson was a bit of a last minute inclusion and I dont think anyone really rates him highly enough to pick him.
But for now it certainly seems to be working.

England look to have their swagger and confidence fully back after the wobble. With the table as it is now and NRR its really difficult to see how the top 4 wont stay as it is.
England have seen off some possible banana skin. If they beat Afghan and Sri Lanka they can get away with losing to the 3 other good teams in the tournament and still be in the semis bar something ridiculous happening. Chances are the current top 4 will share out some points between them when they play each other so its going to take some real shocks for any to miss out.

The West Indies look broken in mind and body now and have no squad depth, so they wont be doing it. Pakistan and SA could get a scalp but I dont see them suddenly becoming good enough to bridge the gap to the top 4. Bangladesh its hard to see being good enough to win enough games regardless of any slip ups. Sri Lanka are too busy worrying about swimming pools.

WI did not really turn up and put up their most dismal show.

The pitch has assistance for both seamers & spinners.....and the ground was big but they needed to put up at least 270 to challenge & test Eng.
210 won't win a game even in 1985 era.

Archer is a star and among the 90mph pacer which are plenty this time.....Archer & Bumrah have something special.....the skid... even from a short run-up their balls come faster off the pitch than it appears.


Root's bowling turned the game around from the point when WI was nearly 150-3 going at 5RPO and looking on course for 300ish

Bringing Root on as a 7th bowler was in itself was an acknowledgement of a stressful situation.

WI's is still in the hunt and they have to beat one of NZ or Ind or hope both those games get rained off


Aus & Eng are the 2 lucky sides.......played 4 and not one rained out.

KP_fan wrote:WI  did not really turn up and put up their most dismal show.


Aus & Eng are the 2 lucky sides.......played 4 and not one rained out.

I guess it is silly of me to think you would give any credit to England.

KP_fan wrote:WI  did not really turn up and put up their most dismal show.

Root's bowling turned the game around from the point when WI was nearly 150-3 going at 5RPO and looking on course for 300ish

Bringing Root on as a 7th bowler was in itself  was an acknowledgement of  a stressful situation.

Think we can safely assume you didn't watch the game in question. This is the usual level of the West Indies and England were always in supreme command of the game. West Indies never looked like exceeding 260 at any point.

Dunno how lucky they were with the Pakistan game.
And the NZ India one suited both of them.
Unless you mean lucky in the sense of fortunate to be able to enjoy their talents playing the game.

I'd love to see the combination of results and reasoning that keeps West Indies in contention, given its unlikely Russel will play and their entire pace attack is nursing injuries.

Anyway more luck tomorrow with perfectly normal June weather conditions. Should get two extremely fortunate games played.
Aus clear favourites, I'd assume they will rest at least one of the premium quicks. Appreny theres a big of green and even the more sedate aussie seamers will trouble Sri lanka. SA should win their tie too, although they are horrible at playing spin.

Yeah, it never felt like Windies would make 300. They got a partnership going but not two players you would really think could score big. The mistake was coming and just happened to be vs Root, who wasn't a bad call with two left handers in. I can't make a case for Windies in the semi finals after today with those injuries mounting up

VTR wrote:Yeah, it never felt like Windies would make 300. They got a partnership going but not two players you would really think could score big. The mistake was coming and just happened to be vs Root, who wasn't a bad call with two left handers in. I can't make a case for Windies in the semi finals after today with those injuries mounting up

going at RR of 5 in 29th over.......with 7 wickets in hand....big hitters to come, it's normal to expect the team to double the score.

WI are still are possible for a semi-final spot.....although NZ is an an comparatively advantageous situation, because their India game rained out.

On a different note w..r.t qualification chances of various sides.......

That Aus and& Eng (among the strongest teams) are the only 2 teams that have not had even a single game out of 4 each rained out has skewed the tables & "disadvantaged" other teams in following ways:

1-Devoid at least one of contenders like WI, Pak, SA, having clearer ascendancy because their games either among themselves or weaker sides rained off.

2-alternatively Eng, Aus themselves did not have a game rained off so far
Had one of their games been rained off against a lesser side...... the chance of a mid-table sides to catch up with them would have become better.

That was a good win for England. West Indies didn't start well - Woakes had a very impressive opening spell and might have been better rewarded - and once Plunkett and Wood had followed up with the next two including the dangerous Gayle they were always playing catch up...
The fourth wicket stand was a good one but never really looked like going fast enough to get them near 300 and once Root had worked his magic the rest had no hope against the pace of Archer and Wood : in fact England's attack , with the unfortunate exception of Rashid who was again largely ineffective (though a bit unlucky with one missed catch) looked a very good combination. Time perhaps for a bit of rotation next week before the big games ? Don't want the spares totally "cold" if a badly timed injury intervenes later...
Not many batsmen needed so the injuries didn't , in the end , matter. I'd definitely rest Roy on Tuesday...Vince could do with a hit and why take even a minuscule risk ? Morgan : well let's see how he pulls up ; but again I'd not be risking him if there is any doubt.

Good to see Root firing with bat and ball...and Woakes showing what he can do with the bat was a handy bonus. Bairstow looked good but again didn't really kick on : he looks in form so hopefully is saving a big innings or two for when it really matters...

As for West Indies : injuries might be really derailing their push for finals. They have shown flashes of brilliance but just don't look good enough or steady enough to string a series of wins together. They may yet prove me wrong but I'm expecting them to rather fizzle out
from here. Which will leave realistically only Pakistan with any sort of challenge to the Big Four (barring an extraordinary turnaround in form from SA or Sri Lanka...not too likely I think)
If it does go that way it will be something of a pity for the format : but I think it is a little unfair to harshly criticize the plans for that...rather hard to predict , a year in advance , what the relative strengths of teams will be . As indeed is picking the likely weather conditions in different parts of the country on specific days.
It won't help my tipping competition efforts ; but I'd quite like to see Pakistan knock over India this weekend to throw a metaphorical cat - or rather a tiger - into the pigeon pen and open up the fight for spots...

LondonTiger wrote:

KP_fan wrote:WI  did not really turn up and put up their most dismal show.


Aus & Eng are the 2 lucky sides.......played 4 and not one rained out.

I guess it is silly of me to think you would give any credit to England.

You almost imply that it should be my duty to give credit to Eng...( we already have Duty for that)

There are plenty of guys on this forum who will give a full credit to Eng when due & even half due......and a few who might have celebrated Eng lifting the cup already
And that's OK...they are all entitled to their freedom of expression.

As a neutral observer I try to closely look at & write about the perspective of the other side also that exists in the Eng games.

KP_fan wrote:

VTR wrote:Yeah, it never felt like Windies would make 300. They got a partnership going but not two players you would really think could score big. The mistake was coming and just happened to be vs Root, who wasn't a bad call with two left handers in. I can't make a case for Windies in the semi finals after today with those injuries mounting up

going at RR of 5 in 29th over.......with 7 wickets in hand....big hitters to come, it's normal to expect the team to double the score.



That Aus and& Eng (among the strongest teams)  are the only 2 teams that have not had even a single game out of 4 each rained out  has skewed the tables & "disadvantaged" other teams in following ways:

1-Devoid at least one of  contenders like WI, Pak, SA, having clearer ascendancy because their games either among themselves or weaker sides rained off.

2-alternatively Eng, Aus themselves did not have a game rained off so far
Had one of their games been rained off against  a lesser side...... the chance of a mid-table sides to catch up with them would have become better.

I know you are not keen to give England any praise ; but ...

Granted the old " double the score at thirty" often ( though certainly not always in this Cup) works out ; but if you were actually watching the match that sort of progression never looked too likely. Pooran and Hetmyer weren't really going consistently at five per over , they had just had a few good overs to push the overall total close to that rate ; while England were using back up bowling and keeping a lot of their main strike bowlers' overs up their sleeves. Always appeared that a wicket would put them on the back foot...as indeed happened.

As for the wash outs : it remains to be seen whether further no results affect leading contenders ; but considering SA and West Indies have each been convincingly beaten more than once it is hard to make too much of a case for either being robbed by rain... Sri Lanka might feel they have been given some bonus points given their form in finished matches ! Pakistan might feel aggrieved : but they got their point and still have qualification (assuming their remaining games are played out) in their own hands.

I wouldnt argue that Pakistan and West Indies chances were hurt by the rain, but seeing the way WI fell apart under pressure and the mental and physical state of that team now Im really baffled as to how you still insist that they have a chance of the semi finals. They were outside contenders on ability and can only get there by beating the top sides, they arent doing that. Their heads are back down where they were 6 months ago, the team looks fractured, they dont have any stamina or squad depth. the Aus game summed up their lack of mental strength and team play, and we saw it again with England. Their NRR has been ruined now and frankly they look defeated. I expect them to slide now not get better, and finish near the bottom. Its hard to see what could lift them, it aint gonna be Allen and Nurse. 
It also doesnt add up that both WI and SA could be unlucky to have that game rained off, from the position its pretty clear which team it was that was lucky. Its also hard to square that youve said NZ were both lucky to get a point for rain against India and unlucky to get a game rained off. 
When it boils down to it though there is a clear gulf between those top 4, and whllst I agree that the rain has helped rob the chances of an outsider crashing the top 4 it increasingly looks like that was never very likely anyway. Indeed whilst England may have been lucky that one of the games they won wasnt rained off (more not unlucky?) they were unlucky the one they did loose wasn't, and if they loose more then surely they are unlucky those werent rained off?  Big shout out to Afghanistan for their point which defies all expectation! 
Whilst the rain has had a small effect on the table and had a couple of small tangible impacts its wrong to talk about luck on balance only looking at isolated cases to back up a pet theory. Were Pakistan lucky to get England on the first day full of nerves? Or was all the weather part of the BCCIs plot along with the fixtures and swimming pool facilities? Was Andre Russells injury bad luck or down to him being unfit, lacking professionalism and poorly managed? 

For me Pakistan are the only team with mixture of ability and points on the board to still have any chance of getting into the top 4. But they have to beat India tomorrow to do that, which they are far from favourites to do. Even then they will have to maintain a level of consistency thats been beyond them for as along as anyone can remember to get in. Their NRR is really awful which wont help, and 3 of their remaining fixtures are tricky ( NZ, SA and Bangladesh)
I think SA will start winning games and climb a bit as others fall off the pace, but surely they are too far back to trouble the top 4. 
Sundays match is the big one and our last real hope of an interesting qualification race. 


Based on my tipping competition picks (Ok maybe I should go off Robbos!) Im getting a 30 game table of:
NZ 11
Eng 10
Aus 10
India 10
Ban 5
Pak 5
SL 4 
SA 4
Wi 3
Afg 1
Surrey 0

Even if Pakistan do beat India that still leaves a gap. That said there is a lot of games between the top sides to be played in the last quarter of qualification, which should add some spice and its hard to predict how that top 4 will end up between them. Im feeling though Im making a case that they have a reasonable sniff against my better judgement, but Amir has remembered how to play cricket. I really didnt rate them coming in based on their form but maybe just maybe ....
Lets see how Sunday goes. But pelase stop think West Indies are going to be in the knock outs, its as unlikely as SA being second.

Exactly, you can't just take the score just before the wicket fell and double it. I followed every ball yesterday and was never really concerned Windies would make it past 250 let alone 300. That was on the basis there were plenty of overs from Wood and Archer to come, and the one decent partnership was largely built whilst Morgan fiddled overs from the back up bowlers, and even then it wasn't convincing

VTR wrote:Exactly, you can't just take the score just before the wicket fell and double it. I followed every ball yesterday and was never really concerned Windies would make it past 250 let alone 300. That was on the basis there were plenty of overs from Wood and Archer to come, and the one decent partnership was largely built whilst Morgan fiddled overs from the back up bowlers, and even then it wasn't convincing

As I alluded to London Tiger.......You must be an English fan, watching the game with heavy England Tinted glasses.

From a neutral / West Indian perspective......doubling ( i.e close ot 300) was the ideal case and if they fell short of ideal.....it was still expected they will finish at 260-270.... and that's the minimum they should have from they stood in over 29

Pooran played a good inning....looked a bit flashy but organized and striking the ball well for better part.

Hetmeyer looked ugly...stepping away from the line of ball and slogging everything into cow corner.....looked like falling anytime but did not...and they put ~90 runs on and stressed Eng

When he fell it was to innocuous bowling and Holder / Russel too threw it away immediately ....knocked the wind out of the sails.......
Those 3 falling was just bad cricket from WI
and then good bowling took over and polished off the longish tail

Gooseberry wrote:I wouldnt argue that Pakistan and West Indies chances were hurt by the rain,.

what if Pak won the rained off game vs Lanka and Eng's game against WI rained out?

What if NZ's game vs Lanka rained out and they lost to India?

what if Aus's game against Afg rained out?

If any of these or several other scenarios occurred the standing would have been different.

The randomness with which games have rained-out so far has benefited NZ(most) and Aus& Eng.
That is the fact and though it is what it is.

I do think there was an expectation that from the position they had they should have been able to make 250+ with someone making a blazing contribution down the order. But it also has to be remembered that Pooran isnt very good, and Hetmeyer a more natural T20 player than the balanced approach that was needed with 3 down early. 
Theres also a feeling that sides are intimidated by Englands batting depth. At that time Morgan was still on the field, and it looked like West Indies were chasing a big (300+) total from the off and never settled for and achievable 250. Its one of the reasons England like batting second, especially on wickets that are giving help to the bowlers. A mixture of their natural attacking game and pressure to chase a total beyond what the conditions offered them menat they ended up falling well short of what they couldve got. 
In terms of Root coming on it really wasnt a roll of the dice or a desperation move from England, its part of their calculated game plan. Its exactly when Moeen would've come on, once a pair looks set and is scoring a quick shift to the spin pairing who offer very different challenges. The Windies pair immediately felt the pressure of a couple of tight overs and fell into the trap. Part of the rationale for leaving Moeen out is that England have Root who can do the same job if needed. 
Better batsmen might made mincemeat of him, in which case they still had plenty of quality seam/pace to turn to. 
Had England held their catches ( joint worst in the tournament for drops now) then this wouldve been even more of a spanking. The West Indies were capable of being better but got done by the toss and then made things worse by chasing a total they were never going to reach. The bowlers looked broken by the time they came out and plonked out short or overpitched dross as if they hadnt even watched how Archer and Woakes had bowled. 
Now there morales gone and their endurance limit crossed the west indies are done. Gayle and others were more interested in boosting their instagram profile than winning by the time england came out. They had a hope in this tournament and theres some talent, but they've blown it.

KP_fan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:I wouldnt argue that Pakistan and West Indies chances were hurt by the rain,.

what if Pak won the rained off game vs Lanka and Eng's game against WI rained out?

What if NZ's game vs Lanka rained out and they lost to India?

what if Aus's game against Afg rained out?

If any of these or several other scenarios occurred the standing would have been different.

The randomness with which games have rained-out so far has benefited NZ(most) and Aus& Eng.
That is the fact and though it is what it is.

Only you could quote something where I agree with you and turn it into an argument.

VTR wrote:Exactly, you can't just take the score just before the wicket fell and double it. I followed every ball yesterday and was never really concerned Windies would make it past 250 let alone 300. That was on the basis there were plenty of overs from Wood and Archer to come, and the one decent partnership was largely built whilst Morgan fiddled overs from the back up bowlers, and even then it wasn't convincing

KP_fan is living in the old days of ODI Cricket. Thinks 270 is defendable and 300 is match-winning. Also believes in the outdated adage of doubling the score after 30 overs, something that used to be the case when teams used to stockpile their wickets for a late charge...hardly anyone does that any more. No wonder he's calling most games wrong.

A few responses from me re the various discussions.

On WI's platform and whether they were on for 250/270/300 when Root struck. I would agree that in normal circumstances a side in WI's position would have looked towards 300, but I don't think that was the case yesterday, for a couple of reasons. The first is that England had a lot of overs in reserve from their gun seamers: Woakes, Archer and Plunkett had 5 left, and Wood 6. With the long square boundaries and WI not known for pinching quick 2s it always felt like a real sustained acceleration would be tricky.

The second reason is the lack of depth of WI's batting. At the time they had Hetmeyer and Pooran who were going well, but Hetmeyer you feel is only ever a minute away from a moment of madness, and Pooran is still learning at this level. They're followed by Holder, Russell and Brathwaite, who are decent enough, but very much in the "bowling all-rounder" bracket. Holder's a good player but doesn't score particularly quickly; Russell is good for a quickfire 20/30 but no more, and Brathwaite's ODI record isn't much to shout about. Finally, by replacing Nurse - a decent enough number 9 - with Gabriel - a complete rabbit - WI had three genuine number 11s in the order. That means that once WI are 7 down they're just not going to make many more, and so it proved.

I think therefore that with all that taken into account 300 felt like an upper limit of what WI could achieve from that situation, if everything went well, i.e. Pooran and Hetmeyer continued to build, Holder/Russell/Brathwaite all did their thing, and England didn't bowl well. It didn't happen. I'm not sure I agree with the statement that WI didn't ever look like reaching 250 though. At that stage I thought that, barring a collapse, they'd get to about 270, which would be competitive. Of course, they collapsed, and in any case I'm not sure how competitive 270 would have been in the end. In fact, Goose makes a good point that WI looked like they felt they needed 300+ to make a game of it, and that's in no small measure due to the intimidating nature of England's batting line-up.

The other main discussion on here seems to be about the NRs and who they are/aren't favouring. I would tend to agree with KPF that England and Australia have been somewhat fortunate to not have any of their fixtures rained off (particularly those against the weaker sides), but I don't think it'll make any difference at the end. The nature of the format is such that the stronger sides will make the semis, and a few games being lost to weather won't really affect that.

Regarding the likely semi-finalists, it's true that WI still have a chance, but in all likelihood they'd need to beat both India and NZ now to make it and not slip up in their other games, or hope for a load of wash-outs. In reality, they've so far smashed a poor Pakistan side, lost one they should have won against Australia, had SA in a spot of bother early on before the rain (but who's to say SA wouldn't have recovered as Aus did?), and been tonked by England. On that basis, and with fitness issues creeping in, it's hard to see them picking themselves up again. Pakistan are to some degree in the same boat, though they might manage to lift themselves for the India game. Certainly an upset there would be good for the tournament (wouldn't hurt India too much, but would put Pakistan back in the hunt).

A final, gentle request, if I may. One of the joys of this particular forum (as opposed to others) is that, in general, posters have had disagreements, at times heated, but that they still treat each other with respect. Attack the post, not the poster, as the saying goes. I think that's one of the reason that unlike other boards we don't seem to be losing so many posters. KPF is one of a very small number of non-England fans and, while he sometimes makes what IMO are slightly provocative and somewhat nonsensical statements (e.g. yesterday's game as a 50-50 ), I do think he adds a lot to these boards, so let's try not to gang up on him too much . Sorry for coming across as a stuffy, pontificating bore.

Gooseberry wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:I wouldnt argue that Pakistan and West Indies chances were hurt by the rain,.

what if Pak won the rained off game vs Lanka and Eng's game against WI rained out?

What if NZ's game vs Lanka rained out and they lost to India?

what if Aus's game against Afg rained out?

If any of these or several other scenarios occurred the standing would have been different.

The randomness with which games have rained-out so far has benefited NZ(most) and Aus& Eng.
That is the fact and though it is what it is.

Only you could quote something where I agree with you and turn it into an argument.

I think I was trying to respond to Alfie's post  but  ended up quoting you .....Somehow not as efficient when doing from mobile phone.
The point stands for all to read, though  who think otherwise

Yeah 250-270 isnt going to leave England awake most nights, although there were serious doubts about 2 of their senior bats being able to come out. If you factor that up by their averages England are 90 runs behind before the start and that total looks more like 350. Even 270 is defendable, if not easy. Theres been a few games where teams have struggled with what last summer in England wouldve looked regulation chases and no really big scores made in the tournament yet. Englands 370ish against Afghanistan is nothing like the 500 people were talking about pre tournament.
Bowler quality and helpfulness in the pitch plus the new kookabura has kept scores capped at a more reasonable level. England failed to chase 350 on the 500 pitch against a side theyd done it to several times only a few weeks ago.
There was a lot of help for the seamers out there, although England got the better of the pitch they showed that bowling a full length troubled anyone and accurate aggression from Archer was getting enough zip and bounce to worry even tall batsmen. Also worth noting the boundaries were quite long ( at least compared to TB) making really rapid scoring tough.
If the West Indies had bowled sensibly and with passion they had a shout of defending a 270ish total. Instead like the batsmen they chucked it away quickly trying to do too much and producing nothing. Hardly any balls on a good test match length, everything was short or overpitched. A lack of real venom after the opening spell.
They mightve come out with a better mindset and some more discipline if theyd had something to bowl at, but after the first handful of overs it looked like they'd given up.
The ridiculous scores England have made at home in the last 4 years and conceded) have skewed our perception of what ODIs look like. The run inflation hasnt been so extreme around the world, and what we have seen at the world cup is a return to 350 being a matchwinning score, and some pitches where 300 is intimidating. Teams have won with less and the talk of 500 has been consigned to the bin.

Duty281 wrote:

VTR wrote:Exactly, you can't just take the score just before the wicket fell and double it. I followed every ball yesterday and was never really concerned Windies would make it past 250 let alone 300. That was on the basis there were plenty of overs from Wood and Archer to come, and the one decent partnership was largely built whilst Morgan fiddled overs from the back up bowlers, and even then it wasn't convincing

KP_fan is living in the old days of ODI Cricket. Thinks 270 is defendable and 300 is match-winning. Also believes in the outdated adage of doubling the score after 30 overs, something that used to be the case when teams used to stockpile their wickets for a late charge...hardly anyone does that any more. No wonder he's calling most games wrong.

Australia won defending 300 and 288 and  Ind would have struggled vs SA had they put 275 on board.
I think many on the forum form their view on bilateral , less pressure sometimes irrelevant ODI series.
270 may not have won WI yesterday  but could have stretched  Eng as there would be some kind of scoreboard pressure
And the proverbial ' something to bowl at"

And then the fitness of Morgan and Roy would have come into play also.

Weather is good for both games today, not so much for tomorrow's encounter. Australia shouldn't have any problems with Sri Lanka. Afghanistan might be sensing an upset against South Africa, but that's about as far as it goes.

Sri Lanka fielding first.

Urghh yeah Headingly forecast doesn't look great for tomorrow. More likely an interrupted game than an abandoned one though. That might just favour Pakistan by adding that chance element in and it not just being a straight up cricketing battle. Both sides seamers will fancy bowling under the cloud, but theres likley to be less help for spinners which again slightly favours Pakistan.
All my eyes are on that one ... todays games are a bit meh.

See Behrendorffs in for NCN which leaves Australias tail looking as bad as the West Indies.
Theres a bit of cloud around and both teams apparently fancy there will be some swing. Its a test for Australias to order, they really cant afford to ship wickets to the new ball.
As per the discussions above they dont need to be thinking in terms of setting 350+, they are quite capable of defending 300 or less against a pretty poor Sri Lankan batting unit. The danger of chasing too much and ending up with too little is real.

Think that's a bit harsh Goose. Cummins and Starc are both OK bats, and while Behrendorff and Richardson are tail-enders, they're still quite a bit better than Cotterell, Thomas and Gabriel. The latter is really quite reminiscent of the good ol' days when England had a tail of Mullaly, Tufnell and Giddins.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/15816/scorecard/63844/england-vs-new-zealand-4th-test-new-zealand-tour-of-england-1999

Happy days!

Anyway, I'm a bit torn on this one. While I wouldn't normally want Australia to do particularly well, for tipping game purposes I really need the full 40 from this one, which means I need Aus to pile on the runs and knock over SL cheaply. Finch's form with the coin (now lost all 5 tosses) really not helping my cause either

Warner off to his now-usual slowish start, while Finch is playing immaculately from the other end. Joy to watch. Sri Lanka's bowling attack looks toothless.

Not only their bowling that looks toothless, the fielding is awful

Good start from Australia, Finch in particular looking in good touch.

SL have been poor. Far too floaty with their lengths which has allowed Finch to just plant his big boot down the pitch and play through the line*. They've also been woeful with their groundfielding: misfields have alreay cost them about 10 runs or so.

*There was one of these stats shown a while ago that showed that Finch strikes at 127.5 to full length, 60 to good length, and 88 to short of a length. SL must have access to these stats, surely, so they should know that if they err in length it's better to be just back-of-a-length than too full. So really poor execution to serve up so many drive-balls.

Sri Lanka will probably moan their dressing room had the wrong coffee machine or something

Warner with one of the worst innings of the tournament so far there - looked horribly out of touch

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Warner with one of the worst innings of the tournament so far there - looked horribly out of touch

Such an odd tournament for him. That innings has just nudged him into being the highest individual run scorer at this World Cup, so far, but he's doing it at a strike rate of 77!

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/records/batting/most_runs_career.html?id=12357;type=tournament

SL regaining some control with the extra boundary-riders. A weakness of Finch is his inability to rotate the strike through the middle-overs at times, while Warner's looking scratchy. And eventually, the pressure built tells, with Warner being bowled by Da Silva, who I reckon is quite a canny operator.

Poor knock from Warner, who despite being the top run scorer in the tournament so far (!) really does look quite out of nick. Pressure now on the middle-order to up the scoring rate on what looks a good pitch.

Hasn't been a boundary for nine overs. All hail the new modern age of cricket.

Yes, a boundary! At last.

Very sedate stuff from the Aussies. No impetus from them whatsoever in the second power play. Now Khawaja's picked out the man in the deep perfectly, 100/2.

Anyone know anywhere good to stream the matches? Nigh on impossible to watch it here in the Philippines.

Pr4wn wrote:Anyone know anywhere good to stream the matches? Nigh on impossible to watch it here in the Philippines.

PM.

Australia rather making a mess of the middle-overs here so far.

Aaron Finch is now the highest run scorer in the tournament - sanity somewhat restored to the statistics. Fine century for him with some gorgeous strokes interspersed throughout.

Australia in command.

Yeah, it's tough being an Australia fan these days, Duty...  

I know Khawaja had massive family problems but he seems to be in another world; no urgency, almost as if he doesn't want to be there.

I'm sure he's had a lot of professional help but the selectors are putting their fair share of faith in him. Apart from that scratchy 40-odd he needs to step up and try and find some of that fluency he is capable of. Otherwise his days might be numbered with Mitch now hovering around the dressing room.

As for Warner; it's as if the jailer said "OK.. you're a free man now. You've served your time. Here's a hundred bucks and the address of a hotel for you to stay for a while."

And then he suddenly realises how hard freedom is... and he can't cope back in society. He's obviously struggling emotionally too; you can see it in his face. But as Olly noted... he's got some runs behind him this WC but he's scoring them at a painfully slow rate.

Ironically, Smith, who I felt was a less than a run a ball batsman when he came onto the scene, is a proper competitor. Taking matters into his own hands and scoring at a decent clip. By KP_f's Rule of Thumb Prediction Method*... 318... but even at 8s... they'll reach 295. Maybe early 300s?

* which henceforth shall be known as KP_FRTPM

203/2 with 14 overs left. They can get 340 from here. If they want to. Plenty of big hitters down the order.

Yes of course there's Maxwell, Carey... & Co.
I could see Maxy before struggling to keep still in the dressing room. Like one of those little terriers; itching to get off the leash.

Pal Joey wrote:
As for Warner; it's as if the jailer said "OK.. you're a free man now. You've served your time. Here's a hundred bucks and the address of a hotel for you to stay for a while."

And then he suddenly realises how hard freedom is... and he can't cope back in society.

I've got a feeling his whole rehabilitation is centred around revenge against SA in the last game of the pool stage after the flak he endured on the last tour.  After that he might get going.

Will be an anti-climax for him if they're already out by the time they meet.

Galted wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:
As for Warner; it's as if the jailer said "OK.. you're a free man now. You've served your time. Here's a hundred bucks and the address of a hotel for you to stay for a while."

And then he suddenly realises how hard freedom is... and he can't cope back in society.

I've got a feeling his whole rehabilitation is centred around revenge against SA in the last game of the pool stage after the flak he endured on the last tour.  After that he might get going.

Will be an anti-climax for him if they're already out by the time they meet.

Not so sad Manuel... you too sad!

Que?

Warner is like an uglier version of that. I feel like slapping him with a wet towel whilst Candice is forced to watch!

Spoiler:

Listening on the radio whilst driving that 2 down I fancied Sri lanka had a sniff ...now...meh.
Australia picked a high risk side with such a tail but it seems to have paid off through sensible batting

These two teeing off as you'd expect. 45 off the last three overs.

South Africa bowling first in the other encounter in west England Wales.

Finch has played a blinder today...rather needed as Warner and Khawaja really didn't fire.
As I type he's gone for 153 but he's done his job

Australia on for about 350...

Brilliant innings from Finch.
Showing respect for the host nation too by holing out on 153... the same high score as Roy.

Excellent Yorker from Malinga does for Smith ...which might put the brakes on .
Although Maxwell is known to hit a few

Marsh coming in : I might have sent Carey in . Six and a half to go...