ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 2

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Table

New Zealand	5	9	1.591
England	5	8	1.862
Australia	5	8	0.812
India	4	7	1.029
Bangladesh	5	5	-0.27
Sri Lanka	5	4	-1.778
West Indies	5	3	0.272
South Africa	5	3	-0.193
Pakistan	5	3	-1.933
Afghanistan	5	0	-2.089

Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30 
10:30 England vs South Africa  (The Oval)

Fri, May 31 
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1 
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2 
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3 
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5 
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6 
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7 
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8 
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9 
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10 
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12 
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13 
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14 
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15 
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16 
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17 
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18 
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19 
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20 
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21 
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22 
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23 
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25 
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26 
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27 
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28 
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30 
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1 
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow

Are we actually trying to argue that chasing higher totals really is easier? Really? Fair enough if the total is low because the conditions are tough yes that would be harder to chase but all things equal a bigger score is if course harder to chase, KPF has some bonkers logic at times but that really would be patently silly.

The thing that's really stood out for me is the lack of tight finishes in this world cup despite many of the games seeming to be in the balance for much of the play. Not many have been enuinely decided in the last few overs. Yesterday a real case in point, west indies looked on top a couple of times and even at half way the game seemed quite open, but was done with 8 overs to spare. Even Englands chase of Pakistan wasnt as close as it looks from the result, they were clearly not going to make it from a few overs out.
I'm wondering how much the format of qualification has played into that. With 9 games the must win factor hasnt really been there, or the same " we just need one good win to jump the party" , have teams been giving up too easily? Sometimes its felt like sides have even tried to protect themselves from a thrashing rather than going all out. Other times ( west indies in particular) once behind they've given up too easily.
It may well just be a perception but it feels like a thing. And we atealy are yet to have that a game that has everyone on the edge of their seats and the in game betting odds going crazy.

Today's game is just about riding through the injuries and hoping the weather doesnt screw them for England. Afghanistan have nothing to loose other than further dignity.

Duty281 wrote:The problem with saying that you can only look at CT or WC scores to analyse scoreboard pressure is that scores have increased since previous versions of those. No surprise that Bangladesh chased down 320-odd; the only surprise being that such a high score hasn't been chased down already. Expect it to happen again.

And I'm not sure why bilateral ODIs get discarded so easily. Alright, there may be less pressure on teams during them than a World Cup game, but that applies to bowlers and fielders as well as batsmen.

--I am ready to add another 10 and 15 runs to successful chase scores of 2011 and 2015 respectively to account for " evolution of human race in cricket"
-But we must discount minnow games
-and must adjust for games in subcontinent vs those in Eng

btw the BD-WI game ( for reasons amply discussed ) was what statisticians would call an "outlier data point"

On the game today.....Afg has nothing to lose and Eng's main objective aught to be win comfortably without risking injuries.

So Morgan and Roy aught to rest.....and their star bowler Archer should be rested...not only does that preserve him, but also gives match time to the next guy in the squad, in case of a last minute injury.

For Afg...bat first, hope they can somehow muster 250+ and then hope their spinners can do some magic.....they should play atleast 3 spinning options

Conditions should be favourable for the Afghans today. Used wicket, taking some turn (as seen on Sunday) - maybe just the right conditions for Rashid Khan to make an impact?

Id probably make a few changes today if i was England, call it disrespectful to the opposition but the players coming in are hardly poor! Don't see any point in risking Morgan.

Vince
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Dawson
Moeen
Woakes
Curran
Plunkett
Rashid

Not that i think they'd do this, just something i would do. The pitch offers a bit of spin so why not give the 3 spinners a go, still plenty of seam bowling options with Plunkett, Woakes, Curran and Stokes. Rest Archer and Wood. Don't risk Morgan.

Gooseberry wrote:Are we actually trying to argue that chasing higher totals really is easier? Really? Fair enough if the total is low because the conditions are tough yes that would be harder to chase but all things equal a bigger score is if course harder to chase, KPF has some bonkers logic at times but that really would be  patently silly.

The thing that's really stood out for me is the lack of tight finishes in this world cup despite many of the  games seeming to be in the balance for much of the play. Not many have been enuinely decided in the last few overs. Yesterday a real case in point, west indies looked on top a couple of times and even at half way the game seemed quite open, but was done with 8 overs to spare. Even Englands chase of Pakistan wasnt as close as it looks from the result, they were clearly not going to make it from a few overs out.
I'm wondering how much the format of qualification has played into that. With 9 games the must win factor hasnt really been there, or the same " we just need one good win to jump the party" , have teams been giving up too easily? Sometimes its felt like sides have even tried to protect themselves from a thrashing rather than going all out. Other times ( west indies in particular) once behind they've given up too easily.
It may well just be a perception but it feels like a thing. And we atealy are yet to have that a game that has everyone on the edge of their seats and the  in game betting odds going crazy.

Today's game is just about riding through the injuries and hoping the weather doesnt screw them for England. Afghanistan have nothing to loose other than further dignity.

It feels the same in tests tbh. Possibly just something about modern cricket. How many times in England tests have we seen the team bat first, get 400 and then the other team to collapse in a heap? Game over in 4 days and a win by over 100 runs. While games are 55/45 teams will stay in it, but then as soon as the scales tip too much the team behind struggles to turn it around and it in fact gets worse.

jimbohammers wrote:Id probably make a few changes today if i was England, call it disrespectful to the opposition but the players coming in are hardly poor! Don't see any point in risking Morgan.

Vince
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Dawson
Moeen
Woakes
Curran
Plunkett
Rashid

Not that i think they'd do this, just something i would do. The pitch offers a bit of spin so why not give the 3 spinners a go, still plenty of seam bowling options with Plunkett, Woakes, Curran and Stokes. Rest Archer and Wood. Don't risk Morgan.  

that makes a lot of sense

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:The problem with saying that you can only look at CT or WC scores to analyse scoreboard pressure is that scores have increased since previous versions of those. No surprise that Bangladesh chased down 320-odd; the only surprise being that such a high score hasn't been chased down already. Expect it to happen again.

And I'm not sure why bilateral ODIs get discarded so easily. Alright, there may be less pressure on teams during them than a World Cup game, but that applies to bowlers and fielders as well as batsmen.

--I am ready to add another 10 and 15 runs to successful chase scores of 2011 and 2015 respectively to account for " evolution of human race in cricket"
-But we must discount minnow games
-and must adjust  for games in subcontinent vs those in Eng

btw the BD-WI game ( for reasons amply discussed ) was what statisticians would call an "outlier data point"

So if you ignore all the data you're right?

KP_fan wrote:

jimbohammers wrote:Id probably make a few changes today if i was England, call it disrespectful to the opposition but the players coming in are hardly poor! Don't see any point in risking Morgan.

Vince
Bairstow
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Dawson
Moeen
Woakes
Curran
Plunkett
Rashid

Not that i think they'd do this, just something i would do. The pitch offers a bit of spin so why not give the 3 spinners a go, still plenty of seam bowling options with Plunkett, Woakes, Curran and Stokes. Rest Archer and Wood. Don't risk Morgan.  

that makes a lot of sense

It might do but it goes against what Morgan said yesterday. 

Morgans warming up so assume hes playing. Its seems Vince may be the only change.

Plunkett has had a case of sh**s and misses out.

Morgan wins the toss and elects to bat.

Vince for Roy and Moeen for Plunkett only changes.

Intriguing...England choosing to bat first. Shame Curran didn't get a game.

It's 500 time, lads!

Duty281 wrote:Intriguing...England choosing to bat first. Shame Curran didn't get a game.

It's 500 time, lads!

Used pitch with a bit of grip and Afghanistan surely opening with spinners - surely closer to 300 than 500. England can get a big score but need to assess the pitch first rather than going gung-ho from ball 1.

Also surprised to see England bat first. Obviously looking for some of that scoreboard pressure but I hope the weather doesn't bite them. Forecast has improved a bit and it looks like a full days play but theres no guarantee. 
England lucky this isn't in Taunton/Bristol/Cardiff where its rank again.

Gooseberry wrote:Also surprised to see England bat first. Obviously looking for some of that scoreboard pressure but I hope the weather doesn't bite them. Forecast has improved a bit and it looks like a full days play but theres no guarantee. 
England lucky this isn't in Taunton/Bristol/Cardiff where its rank again.

Batting first we still only need 70 overs for a game, so we don't need the full day. But on TMS they have said the rain will probably hit after the game starts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/2643123

I was going to challenge KP_fan over his theories about chasing teams failing by fifteen runs at 350 being fated to the same result at 335...but I note Robbo and Goose have already had a good go...

Actually I largely agree with KP_fan about the greater pressure df the World Cup making the pursuit of large totals much less likely...I think we have seen evidenced already at this event. But the other part of his theory strikes me as failing the logic test. If a team reached , say , 210 after 40 - with wickets in hand - then clearly scoring another 90 - nine per over - is a lot easier than the twelve per over needed to make an extra thirty runs...The team that narrowly fails to chase 330 will certainly get 300 .
Of course I don't think that is KP_fan's suggestion : he believes that teams will consciously adjust their risk/reward settings when going for the lower target - so that in the aforementioned case they wouldn't be at 210 after 40...and it is probably true that some teams have messed up chases by getting their pacing wrong. But not all ; and it certainly can't be reasonably claimed that such misjudgment is automatic - or even usual.
I suspect that the majority of high total chases (leaving aside those where the side batting second is totally outclassed , blown away , not at the races ) are derailed primarily because vital wickets are lost in pursuit of a high run rate , so that the team is either bowled out or lesser batsmen are at the wicket in the final overs ; rather than simply running out of time . It follows therefore that a smaller target significantly increases their chances of reaching it as the number of risks required are reduced...

Of course no one can ever say what "would" have happened in a particular case because unlike a computer game we cannot just hit reset and go again

But I am confident most teams will feel more relaxed chasing 285 than 310 ...and are more likely to make it.

Another game where the ground is half-full. Looks a beauty of a batting wicket.

Surprised they haven't given Curran a run out. Seemed an ideal opportunity.
I get they want to get a safe two points but surely they could trust the reserve bowlers to do a job ? If they won't rest the two openers today , then when ? Slight risk expecting them to play all nine games plus the knock outs , I'd have thought...

alfie wrote:Surprised they haven't given Curran a run out.  Seemed an ideal opportunity.
I get they want to get a safe two points but surely they could trust the reserve bowlers to do a job ? If they won't rest the two openers today , then when ?  Slight risk expecting them to play all nine games plus the knock outs , I'd have thought...

Once qualification is assured? If the final 3 games are against the teams they're likely to play in the semi-finals, will they hold Archer back? A lot of those players wouldn't have faced him personally. Beat Afghanistan and Sri Lanka this week and we're on 10 points. We'd have to go some to not qualify from then.

One thing England have done well this World Cup is have a look at the first 5 when batting first.

21-1 off 5 against South Africa. Finished on 311 and won by 100+.
15-0 off 5 against Bangladesh. Finished on 386 and won by 100+.
20-0 off 5 against Afghanistan today. We'll see.

Afghanistan's fielding would disappoint a village side. Making the Windies seem refined.

robbo277 wrote:One thing England have done well this World Cup is have a look at the first 5 when batting first.

21-1 off 5 against South Africa. Finished on 311 and won by 100+.
15-0 off 5 against Bangladesh. Finished on 386 and won by 100+.
20-0 off 5 against Afghanistan today. We'll see.

Which is a bit of a change for them, but makes a lot more sense when batting first. 

Even so its surprisingly respectful and has been chance free. Good to see Vince has seized the initiative a bit and isnt wanting to get bogged down and pootle along.

Restrained start from YJB and Vince...

Afghan fielding rather village so far. Comms suggesting it might be a bit slippery . Nice to see some sunshine anyway...

Vince gone : didn't take advantage of the early let off...made a right mess of that pull shot. 44/1

I think Sangkarra is the best Commentator in this world cup

Vince didn't look at all comfortable during that knock, so little surprise to see him depart.

Time for Root to carry on his excellent tournament.

the dismissal of Vicne today a classic case of the mystery spinner building pressure and the lesser bowler getting wicket as a result
Kuldeep has done that often

robbo277 wrote:

alfie wrote:Surprised they haven't given Curran a run out.  Seemed an ideal opportunity.
I get they want to get a safe two points but surely they could trust the reserve bowlers to do a job ? If they won't rest the two openers today , then when ?  Slight risk expecting them to play all nine games plus the knock outs , I'd have thought...

Once qualification is assured? If the final 3 games are against the teams they're likely to play in the semi-finals, will they hold Archer back? A lot of those players wouldn't have faced him personally. Beat Afghanistan and Sri Lanka this week and we're on 10 points. We'd have to go some to not qualify from then.

Yeah I had thought about that. Not sure trying to conceal weapons from final opponents is really too effective : I think you want to keep winning so are best to play your first choice team in the big games. And ensuring the higher place in the table in case of washouts. You might be able to leave out Archer or Wood for the odd game but I'd have thought this would be the ideal time to rest one of them for a start.
Also if Rashid is carrying any sort of a niggle he really could have given this one a miss. Dawson may get tired of carrying drinks/towels/ gloves...

they are not reading Mujeeb of the hand but attempting to do so off the pitch
LBW a possibility coming up if he continues

alfie wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

alfie wrote:Surprised they haven't given Curran a run out.  Seemed an ideal opportunity.
I get they want to get a safe two points but surely they could trust the reserve bowlers to do a job ? If they won't rest the two openers today , then when ?  Slight risk expecting them to play all nine games plus the knock outs , I'd have thought...

Once qualification is assured? If the final 3 games are against the teams they're likely to play in the semi-finals, will they hold Archer back? A lot of those players wouldn't have faced him personally. Beat Afghanistan and Sri Lanka this week and we're on 10 points. We'd have to go some to not qualify from then.

Yeah I had thought about that. Not sure trying to conceal weapons from final opponents is really too effective : I think you want to keep winning so are best to play your first choice team in the big games.  And ensuring the higher place in the table in case of washouts. You might be able to leave out Archer or Wood for the odd game but I'd have thought this would be the ideal time to rest one of them for a start.
Also if Rashid is carrying any sort of a niggle he really could have given this one a miss. Dawson may get tired of carrying drinks/towels/ gloves...

Yeah not sure if I agree with it, just trying to cover all bases. They might just go with their strongest team throughout and adjust as they need to. Which does place higher workloads on the team. Maybe they're banking on one game being washed out so they can all sit with their feet up?

Vine's dismissal is actually a classic case of James Vince, not sure if call it anything else!

72 from the first 15. Is that England's slowest start of the WC ? Certainly the Afghans have kept things reasonably quiet so far despite some awful fielding.
Guess this is the most spin-heavy attack England have encountered and they have apparently decided to work their way into it...

alfie wrote:72 from the first 15.  Is that England's slowest start of the WC ?  Certainly the Afghans have kept things reasonably quiet so far despite some awful fielding.
Guess this is the most spin-heavy attack England have encountered and they have apparently decided to work their way into it...

I think it probably is the slowest. I guess they probably know that par is quite a bit lower with Afghanistan chasing, and that 280 wouldn't be a bad result. Going too hard to early against those spinners and we could find ourselves in trouble.

You've got to factor in Roy not being able to play as well. We get used to rocket starts from England and its usually him doing the damage. Bairstow is capable but hasn't seemed in top form lately

Just starting to lift the pace after a sensibly sedate start. We don't need to be looking to score 450 or 500 in a match like this, just a sensible 300 or so based on a solid platform and pushing on in the last 15.

After their showing with the bat in their last couple of games, Afghanistan look a bit out-classed against good pace bowling.

Oh, and could James Vince have been any more James Vince?

50 for Bairstow and the 100 up in the 20th over.

Root doing his stuff in scoring at almost a run a ball without even trying.

Just need to keep ticking along for the next 10 overs, get to say 160 - 170 and then start to open up.

VTR wrote:You've got to factor in Roy not being able to play as well. We get used to rocket starts from England and its usually him doing the damage. Bairstow is capable but hasn't seemed in top form lately

Well he hasn't gone on to a big score yet but he's been striking the ball pretty well ...don't think his scoring rate has been too shabby , without actually checking the stats.
Seem to me they have set out to play with a bit of care against the spinners. And the ball may not be coming on ideally for stroke play.
I fully expect them to up the pace as the innings progresses. Actually overs 11-20 have gone at 6 ...steady acceleration.

Bit surprised Afghanistan held Rashid Khan back until over 19 ? Sixth bowler used...talk about keeping the secret weapon under wraps...

England do seem more afraid of losing the game than not winning it.


Also maybe theres possibly a conspiracy with skybet to bankrupt Duty by noone scoring 500, noone getting out to Khan , and England throwing their semi spot.

Haha, well England would have to go to some lengths not to make the semi-finals!

Plenty of potential for England to accelerate from here. 14 off that last over. Should still be looking at 370-380 from here.

Bairstow's 50 was from 61 balls. He had 12 times previously made 50 as an opener for England, 11 times better than a run a ball, the other time was in 52 balls, so he's slower than normal. But he's still there, he's got the runs and now he's on 70 from 77. Root is on 36 from 38. Both are looking well set to keep the scoreboard ticking before more of an assault in the last 20.

TMS have just reported that England were 154-1 after 25 against Bangladesh in Cardiff, they went on to make 386, albeit on a smaller pitch.

140-1 here after 25.

It does seem they had a premeditated plan to not be in a pickle when Khan came on then try to hit him out of the attack. How he and Afghanistan as a whole react to that is huge for the game. 
He hasnt played many games at all against top sides, and Englands batting is as strong and aggressive in depth as any. A test of his character and skill, if Afghanistan have any hope they need wickets and to put that panic in.

Could the fielding get any worse ? One wonders what will happen under extra pressure if England really throw the bat later on...

Bairstow motoring along nicely after a relatively sedate start...just about at run a ball now , as is Root. At 156 in the twenty eighth , you'd fancy 350 .

Surely time for England to start throwing the bat...or maybe they'll be happy just pushing their way, quite comfortably, to 320? Not really been England's way over the past four years, admittedly.

Bairstow gone, he'll be annoyed at missing a century. Morgan coming out. Interesting.

alfie wrote:Could the fielding get any worse ? 

Have you watched the west indies in the last 20 overs of a game recently?

No hundred for YJB...sharp c&b by Gulbadin Ball seemed to hold up a bit off the pitch...think it is a bit like that today which might limit the scoring a little.
Still on course for substantially over 300 . But they'll need to pick the ones to hit.

Duty281 wrote:Surely time for England to start throwing the bat...or maybe they'll be happy just pushing their way, quite comfortably, to 320? Not really been England's way over the past four years, admittedly.

Bairstow gone, he'll be annoyed at missing a century. Morgan coming out. Interesting.

At least Bairstow wont be yet another to get criticised for scoring a run a ball century.

Gooseberry wrote:

alfie wrote:Could the fielding get any worse ? 

Have you watched the west indies in the last 20 overs of a game recently?

Ha . Good point. I haven't actually caught a reply of yesterday's "performance " but the descriptions have been fairly graphic .

Duty281 wrote:Surely time for England to start throwing the bat...or maybe they'll be happy just pushing their way, quite comfortably, to 320? Not really been England's way over the past four years, admittedly.

Bairstow gone, he'll be annoyed at missing a century. Morgan coming out. Interesting.

Morgan appears to be in the mood...

Enjoyed the free hit And followed it up nicely...

Well, if we're going old school and doubling from 30 overs, England are on course for about 330. As I type, Morgan is doing his bit to up the rate with consecutive 6s