ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3

First topic message reminder :

Table

Australia	8	14	1.00
India	7	11	0.85
New Zealand	8	11	0.57
England	8	10	1.00
Pakistan	8	9	-0.80
Sri Lanka	8	8	-0.93
Bangladesh	7	7	-0.13
South Africa	8	5	-0.08
West Indies	8	3	-0.36
Afghanistan	8	0	-1.42

Remaining Pool Fixtures

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow

You have to give credit when it's due, the ICC and groundsmen have done a good job, most of the pitches have been competitive between bat and ball. Certainly better than the dead tracks we see normally in bilateral ODI series.

In other news, I'm very glad West Indies lost and are now out of the tournament. The number of boundaries they hit where the ball has been mistimed is crazy, they get away with it by ball bashing powerfully so even mishits go for 6. A perfect advert for why we need to regulate bat technology.

Thanks Guilford, that is useful to know. Doesn't really give England much home advantage then, other than the support but then you have the scenario where the game vs India for example will be more like an away game.

These aren't excuses, England should have won against Sri Lanka. The semi finals will always be unpredictable, but England are making hard work of getting there

Yesterday we learnt the Indians don't like a slow batting track anymore than the English do, and that Kohli was visibly feeling the pressure and was very on edge throughout the innings. Certainly, the Indians are not some invincible side, they have many weaknesses.

Today is just a dead rubber between two teams who are already out (pretty much). Pakistan batting first. Good price available on Pakistan at around 11/10.

guildfordbat wrote:

VTR wrote:

You can have a lot of excitement without a lot of runs.

Say that again, again and again Guildford!! Absolutely agree. The low scoring close games are the best to any score 400 chase it in 46 overs nonsense! Those can come, perhaps once in 3 years!

South Africa giving a brilliant demonstration on how not to bowl with the new ball, on a pitch with short square boundaries.

Had to run out on Friday, listened to the last overs of England's chase. Shocking we couldn't chase 232 against that attack and on that pitch. Fair play to Sri Lanka, but England did not bat well enough.

West Indies and South Africa are on a maximum 9 points, and are now walking a tightrope.

Pakistan and Bangladesh are on a maximum 11 points and are now with Sri Lanka on a maximum 12 points.

Their and our remaining fixtures are:
Pakistan vs South Africa (today)
Bangladesh vs Afghanistan
England vs Australia
Pakistan vs New Zealand
Sri Lanka vs South Africa
Pakistan vs Afghanistan
England vs India
Sri Lanka vs West Indies
Bangladesh vs India
England vs New Zealand
Pakistan vs Bangladesh
Sri Lanka vs India

England obviously have the trickiest remaining fixtures, but are the best team and have the most points and the best net run rate. I think 1 win will be enough for us, although 2 would confirm it. England will also need to win well to rebuild the confidence before the knockouts - however England's opponents will also see their games against England as a chance to knock them out before the knockouts.

While the loss against Sri Lanka is obviously a set back, it's not terminal. And if England come back from here with wins against Australia and India with the Sword of Damocles hanging over their heads, it will stand them in good stead for the knockout games against possibly the same opponents.

I guess what should be added is that if England can beat Australia on Tuesday, both teams will be on equal records with England ahead on Net Run Rate. Australia's next game would be against New Zealand and they could be embroiled in the battle for a semi-final spot if they lose two on the bounce.

Couple of excellent matches yesterday . Have to feel for both Afghans and West Indies getting so close and still falling short ; but credit to India and NZ for holding their nerve to win.
Neesham bowled a really good last over to Brathwaite under a lot of pressure . But he'd be relieved Boult managed to keep his feet inside the rope catching that !
Really nice to see Taylor going to console Brathwaite immediately

Despite these thrillers the finals still look almost settled. If England lose to Australia then the chasing pack will feel that hope remains ; but an England win will pretty much seal it. So we may or may not have an edgy last ten days...

As to who look the best contenders , it is anything but clear. England can hardly be considered favorites any more given their ordinary progress so far : though when they have been hot they have totally slaughtered opponents in a manner their competitors haven't really managed yet. (Which is why their net run rate remains so good despite two defeats) if they bounce back against Australia in the manner of their pre - tournament form we will need to re-assess.

India were looking great ; but a battling effort against the pointless Afghans has raised some questions. Their top order batting is fine ; but it runs out a bit early - and while they pick their best bowlers they are always likely to be at risk of a late collapse ...which might be fatal if the early bats don't make a big total. As against that , their bowling has a good deal of variety and skill.

NZ has done absolutely nothing wrong - unless you count being a bit unfashionable And winning their games by some fairly narrow margins. Their XI doesn't seem to be packed with stars - and of course they are yet to play any of the heavyweight opponents - but they keep getting the job done. And in Williamson they have an outstanding , calm , batsman and leader. They are looking a decent chance to top the table which would surprise a few people. Who knows what they can do ?

And finally Australia - the only team who didn't play over the weekend. Possess three of the best bats and two of the best bowlers in the competition. The doubts surround the backup ; and haven't totally gone away yet , despite some fine individual performances from various players , and a nearly unblemished record. One loss , to the fancied India : the matches against England and their southern neighbors will perhaps tell us more ...

Can anyone else crash the party ? On points , Sri Lanka has the best shot ...but despite their gallant effort against England I can't really see them getting the wins they need to overhaul , even if that team were to suffer a couple more losses. Bangladesh too are not far away ; but they really need to win all three matches and it is probably beyond them. I think the others are too far back ...though I know some think Pakistan have a get out of jail key handy Guess we will see over the next few days.

Anyway , Pakistan are off to a fine start today...SA need some wickets or their dismal tournament looks likely to continue...

msp83 wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

You can have a lot of excitement without a lot of runs.

Say that again, again and again Guildford!! Absolutely agree. The low scoring close games are the best to any score 400 chase it in 46 overs nonsense! Those can come, perhaps once in 3 years!

You can have a lot of excitement without a lot of runs. You can have a lot of excitement with a lot of runs. The exciting cricket games are the close ones, whatever the amount of runs scored.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

msp83 wrote:

guildfordbat wrote:

You can have a lot of excitement without a lot of runs.

Say that again, again and again Guildford!! Absolutely agree. The low scoring close games are the best to any score 400 chase it in 46 overs nonsense! Those can come, perhaps once in 3 years!

You can have a lot of excitement without a lot of runs. You can have a lot of excitement with a lot of runs. The exciting cricket games are the close ones, whatever the amount of runs scored.

Agreed ! What we want , ideally , is a mix of different shapes of matches. Which , to be fair , we've been getting. Probably would have hoped for a few more close ones but I'm far from complaining about the general fare on offer ...very few "boring walk overs".

Arguably the stupidest dismissal of the tournament as Fakhar Zaman goes for a well-worked 44.

alfie wrote:  
NZ has done absolutely nothing wrong - unless you count being a bit unfashionable   And winning their games by some fairly narrow margins. T.

NZ has 2 major weaknesses

1-No one other than Williamson has stood-up really as a batsman.
2-Their bowling standard drops significantly beyond the top-3 bowlers.

& hence they ran close to the 3 mid sides i,e BD, WI & SA....and will be found out in either semis or finals ( if they unlikely make it so far) or even games before that.

The team with least weaknesses is Aus in my view.

Pakistan on for a hefty total here...eight per over gets them 300 , more or less. And with seven wickets in hand they ought to do at least that.
SA need to pull a rabbit out of the hat or they're looking at a tough chase...

Haris Sohail has played excellently; timing the ball immaculately from the very start and injecting much-needed tempo into the Pakistan innings.

Can't see the out-of-form Saffers chasing down anything north of 300. Long tail, also, plus the weakest batting 7 at the tournament.

Rabbit duly pulled...Babar caught in the deep ...224/4. A very good 69 but he will be disappointed to get out then.
Haris Sohail is scoring well so they still have plenty of scope to get to 300 ...

Duty281 wrote:Haris Sohail has played excellently; timing the ball immaculately from the very start and injecting much-needed tempo into the Pakistan innings.

Can't see the out-of-form Saffers chasing down anything north of 300. Long tail, also, plus the weakest batting 7 at the tournament.

Indeed. They haven't really looked good for that sort of target ...although this looks a pretty easy batting track. Lot depends on how well Pakistan use this last eight overs.

308/7. Should be enough. Sohail's brilliant innings likely to be a match-winner, just a shame he couldn't go on a little further for a 100.

Pakistan has turned up today...they have a complete bowling lineup
3 fast bowlers, and 1 each of SLA, leggie and Offie

Slow progress from South Africa and they've just lost de Kock who was trying to push the score on.

95/2 after 21 means the middle and lower order have an awful lot of work to do to get close.

Really have to feel for Pakistan, they’re trying so desperately hard to lose but SA’s ineptness has the edge at the moment.

Galted wrote:Really have to feel for Pakistan, they’re trying so desperately hard to lose but SA’s ineptness has the edge at the moment.

SA have never looked like anywhere close to being in winning position in the game being shown on my TV

Wahab Riaz is the best death bowler after Bumrah....along side Bumrah I would say in this  tournament.

Its amazing the reverse he is getting....almost Akramsque
Bumrah & Shami were also getting reverse yesterday in their last spell.....I think if it doesn't rain and temperatures go up...both spin and reverse come into the equation

KP_fan wrote:

Galted wrote:Really have to feel for Pakistan, they’re trying so desperately hard to lose but SA’s ineptness has the edge at the moment.

SA have never looked like anywhere close to being in winning position in the game being shown on my TV

Ineptness: without skill or aptitude for a particular task or assignment (Dictionary.com)

Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

Duty281 wrote:Good price available on Pakistan at around 11/10.

A very good price. Poor old South Africa have been the biggest disappointment at this World Cup; at no point today did they look like beating Pakistan.

KP_fan wrote:Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

England, very comfortably. 1/8 to make the semi-finals with BET365.

Pakistan will likely lose to NZ and could even slip up against Bangladesh. England will be favourites for two of their final games and no worse than 50/50 for the match against India.

Duty281 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Good price available on Pakistan at around 11/10.

A very good price. Poor old South Africa have been the biggest disappointment at this World Cup; at no point today did they look like beating Pakistan.

They showed the stat that none of their batsmen have even passed 70 in an innings the whole tournament, which is shocking!

KP_fan wrote:Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

Not quite.

Pakistan need to win 2 more games than England. So England only need to win two games if Pakistan go on and win all 3.

If there's any rain it will probably play into England's hand, especially due to the superior Net Run Rate.

E.g. 1. if England vs Australia gets rained out, England will be on 9 points. 2 Pakistan wins would then bring them up to 9 but with a worse NRR.

E.g. 2. if Pakistan wash out against Afghanistan or Bangladesh, they'll be on 6 points. Beating the other one will take them to 8 points, level with England but with an inferior NRR.

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

Not quite.

Pakistan need to win 2 more games than England. So England only need to win two games if Pakistan go on and win all 3.

-Rain is in no one 's control...and those scenarios are Force-Majeure.

-Pak's campaign rests on their next game vs. NZ....if they win....they will steam-roll Afg & BD
I would put Pak-NZ 50-50 for now.

-If Eng is counting on winning just one game & hope others' losses an rains will get them through....then it's not a good strategy.

South Africa duely lost today as well. This has to be their worst ever World Cup so far. Not sure many of us follow South African domestic cricket all that closely, but anyone has any idea, who are the batting talents in the making for South Africa in the near future? It is fairly obvious that they really need to restructure the team. There are some good aspects to Faf du Plessis as a leader though not a lot of it came through in this WC. They need a new captain, and a new set of players particularly batsmen.

KP_fan wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

Not quite.

Pakistan need to win 2 more games than England. So England only need to win two games if Pakistan go on and win all 3.

 

-Rain is in no one 's control...and those scenarios are Force-Majeure.

-Pak's campaign rests on their next game vs. NZ....if they win....they will steam-roll Afg & BD
I would put Pak-NZ  50-50 for now.

-If Eng is counting on winning just one game & hope others' losses an rains will get them through....then it's not a good strategy.

I'm sure England aren't relying on others. It's in their hands. I'm just saying that it's not even close to the 50/50 you are describing it as.

Lolz, Pakistan and New Zealand is a 50-50 contest.

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:Guys...here are two semi-final qualification situations..

1-Pak needs to beat NZ plus both of AFG & BD to qualify.

2- Eng needs to beat NZ Plus One of Ind or Aus

Who is in an easier situation to qualify?

Not quite.

Pakistan need to win 2 more games than England. So England only need to win two games if Pakistan go on and win all 3.

 

-Rain is in no one 's control...and those scenarios are Force-Majeure.

-Pak's campaign rests on their next game vs. NZ....if they win....they will steam-roll Afg & BD
I would put Pak-NZ  50-50 for now.

-If Eng is counting on winning just one game & hope others' losses an rains will get them through....then it's not a good strategy.

I'm sure England aren't relying on others. It's in their hands. I'm just saying that it's not even close to the 50/50 you are describing it as.

If in this situation even an iota of escapism crosses a  team's mind like hoping for rain or just one win..Then they will lose all the games.
( I alluded to it coz you used rain and 1 win as basis of hope for qualification )

As for Pak , if they win the toss , I would put them as 60_40 and if they manage 260 runs batting first it's 70-30 in their favor..

The who has it easier thing is a bit silly at this point...but I'll play

Obviously England are better off by being 3 points ahead. (Plus run rate : which will count only if one of them has a washout) . So Pakistan needs to win two more than England.
Equally obviously England has a harder last couple of games.
However if they win on Tuesday and Pakistan don't the next day , it would be GAME OVER...So the harder draw won't matter.

If England lose and Pakistan beat NZ then we have a different situation. Though still one in which England have a lead and have only to win to stay ahead... which would put on the kind of "sudden death" pressure that Pakistan are going to face in all their matches.

To be honest , if England can't win two of their last four games they'd probably be wasting their time making the finals anyway...

alfie wrote:The who has it easier thing is a bit silly at this point...but I'll play  

Obviously England are better off by being 3 points ahead. (Plus run rate : which will count only if one of them has a washout) . So Pakistan needs to win two more than England.
Equally obviously England has a harder last couple of games.  
However if they win on Tuesday and Pakistan don't the next day , it would be GAME OVER...So the harder draw won't matter.

If England lose and Pakistan beat NZ then we have a different situation.  Though still one in which England have a lead and have only to win to stay ahead... which would put on the kind of "sudden death" pressure that Pakistan are going to face in all their matches.

To be honest , if England can't win two of their last four games they'd probably be wasting their time making the finals anyway...

And with this group stage setup, whoever finishes top 4 ultimately deserves it - and whoever doesn't really can't have any complaints.

Wouldn't be surprised if Afghanistan upset Bangladesh today. Turning pitch which is very helpful to the bulk of the Afghan attack. They've surely gained a lot of confidence after pushing India so close on Saturday. Could be a close one.

Pal Joey wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Sri Lanka should not be written off just yet. On their day they can still beat any team. A very good toss for them to win and they have the bowling to defend a decent total, should they get one.

The only match theyve won away from home since Jan 2018 were against Afghanistan and Scotland. Theyve not beaten a top 8 team outside Aisa since the Champions trophy.

Their day does not happen very often. Theyve been poor for a long time.

It doesn't read good, I will grant you that but I always have a very uneasy feeling playing against Sri Lanka.

I had an uneasy feeling about today, always fear Sri Lanka.

I was about to post a reply along the lines of: "this isn't 1996... or 2011 anymore. Yer livin' in the past, mun." with the mandatory silly smile.

Glad I didn't... because (like you Billy) I'm still a little hard-wired when it comes to SL's past performances over the years. Even if they have been rubbish in recent times. That's not why I didn't hit "Send" though. I got distracted (lost interest more like!) thinking this will be a cakewalk... and watched some Women's Origin (NSW 14-4) and Tour of Slovenia instead... hoping to see Melania's home village. No mention of it.  

Then I went to sleep at 3 wickets down. I think "The Predictor" had England 95%, Sri Lanka 5% at the time... with Nasser Hussain gloating on about how "exceptional this England team is"... and "they have such a strong tail" Yeah, yeah, yeah... a bucket of iced-water for you, Sir.

So Olly... maybe I jinxed them?

I am truly hard wired when it comes to Sri Lanka. Its funny given recent form but they always step it up for England.

England have a lot to do now. They may still make the Semi Finals but I fear that will be the end of them (unless they play NZ in the semi's).

I also have to say that I do not see England beating the Aussies or India at the moment.

The Aussies, to me, are the most complete and balanced side in this tournament (especially with Warner returning to his best) and will take a special performance, or an off day from the Aussies, to beat them.

India, not as complete and balanced as the Aussies but still more balanced than England for me.

England, for all the hype, are a very good team but still a bit too hit and miss and lack the consistency of an Australia or India.

I would rank it India, Australia and then England. But, and it's a big but, I do think England will enjoy those two big games with India and Australia more than games against the likes of the Windies and Sri Lanka. 

There are definitely questions around Australia, there's definitely a few weaker picks in amongst some very good players.

What Australia have is a raw arrogance that is just a natural part of sporting psyche here. I mean that as no offence to such fantastic posters as my pal PJ, but the general vibe of the place (a truly important notion in Australia's culture, the vibe of a place) is of pure, bristling masculine posturing about sport. I think it reflects in how they play, too. They expect to be one of the better teams, which helps their psychology when they come into competitions. 

That is not an English trait, generally, yet I think this England side relish making a point and getting into a big game.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I would rank it India, Australia and then England. But, and it's a big but, I do think England will enjoy those two big games with India and Australia more than games against the likes of the Windies and Sri Lanka. 

There are definitely questions around Australia, there's definitely a few weaker picks in amongst some very good players.

What Australia have is a raw arrogance that is just a natural part of sporting psyche here. I mean that as no offence to such fantastic posters as my pal PJ, but the general vibe of the place (a truly important notion in Australia's culture, the vibe of a place) is of pure, bristling masculine posturing about sport. I think it reflects in how they play, too. They expect to be one of the better teams, which helps their psychology when they come into competitions. 

That is not an English trait, generally, yet I think this England side relish making a point and getting into a big game.

True to some degree (your 3rd para)... but maybe I'd call it more self-confidence. I believe it (the bristling masculine posturing) has been tempered somewhat over the years (cf the more brazen jingoistic 80s... even 90s) but yes... you still get that loud raucous carry-on from some boorish fans (and some sports people - like Kyrgios) which I find quite embarrassing. Seems to be a lot of pointless aggression still there too but 'we' sometimes like to get 'pumped up' over unimportant things such as sport.

I much prefer the quiet achiever types... like Pat Cummins for example or Ashleigh Barty... and fans who have a better understanding of their place in the bigger scheme of things.

btw, what's your rolled-gold golden match, Dolphin?

I think what this world cup has shown is that when it is a good batting wicket and you can play the big shots, they are as good as anyone. They have the players to score quickly and set/chase a big target, and have the fielders and bowlers to defend fairly well on this kind of wicket.

Where they are coming unstuck seems to be that the pictures are not scoring as quickly and you need to score your runs from other means that boundaries - Root being the obvious exception to this in that it suits his game more.

Pal Joey wrote:
That is not an English trait, generally, yet I think this England side relish making a point and getting into a big game.

Did mine get rained? Do I get two this time?

2 games in a row AFG have some very accomplished players of spin in bother.

BD inning pattern following that of India...acceleration juts doesn't come....and if at all anything there is a deceleration & wickets fall.
The wickets also fell similar...uppish checked drive and LBWs/ bowled to ones that kept low
BD ain't getting more than 260 in my view.

AFG may not win again today .,.....but will give BD a run for money

Had BD caught one of the spin-weak sides on suhc a pitch they may have caused an upset...

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:
That is not an English trait, generally, yet I think this England side relish making a point and getting into a big game.

Did mine get rained? Do I get two this time?

?

I didn't post that one... you did... it may be true. I think somehow the quote function has been mixed up.  

No, I was just asking for your golden match for the tipping competition after replying to your post on the Australian psyche.

I got your picks OK... but not your double points match. Check back on that thread to see what I mean.

Just checked again Got it thanks.  

Raining quite steadily here now. How about you on the coast? We call it the east coast low. Hopefully it will fizzle out soon as it drifts north.

But now Mushfiqur playing the inning that Dhoni could not.....using horizontal bat slog sweeps

What do you reckon, KP? 270?

I'll go 262.

Pal Joey wrote:What do you reckon, KP? 270?

I'll go 262.

260-270

Pal Joey wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Pal Joey wrote:
That is not an English trait, generally, yet I think this England side relish making a point and getting into a big game.

Did mine get rained? Do I get two this time?

?

I didn't post that one... you did... it may be true. I think somehow the quote function has been mixed up.  

No, I was just asking for your golden match for the tipping competition after replying to your post on the Australian psyche.

I got your picks OK... but not your double points match. Check back on that thread to see what I mean.

Just checked again Got it thanks.  

Raining quite steadily here now. How about you on the coast? We call it the east coast low. Hopefully it will fizzle out soon as it drifts north.

I completely screwed up quoting, was doing two things at once

Pitch is almost as difficult as yesterday.....AFG were just a little less disciplined and BD batted better than India did....Dhoni & Pandya failing to take off was the diff now when I can compare both innings.

Nevertheless neither the pitch nor BD bowling is one that would trouble & blast AFG batsman away

What troubles them is seam off the pitch and speed in the air....and neither is available with BD bowling today.

So many Afgans will get starts, chug along at 4 RPO...remain in the hunt for a long time...and then fall about 20 runs short I think.

an outside chance though of them pulling it through...for this is the type of pitch they are bred on slow, sluggish turning.

You need someone who can slog across the line on the pitch with a lot of power into the cow-corner... and not in the air but rolling wrists into the ground.

Making a mockery of play straight & in V theory.

Pal Joey wrote:What do you reckon, KP? 270?

I'll go 262.