ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 4

First topic message reminder :

Yes, England expected to be unchanged. Long boundaries apparently, which will suit England's excellent running ability!

If there were a decent replacement in the wings, I think Rashid's place would be under severe threat. He's got figures of 7/403 from 69 overs in the World Cup so far, which is hardly illuminating stuff.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Jadeja gone.

I don't think this has been particularly close, despite the commentators sensationalising it. At no point were these two, as a partnership, scoring heavily enough to trouble NZ. The RRR was always climbing, not descending. Jadeja was doing fantastically at one end, but Dhoni was undermining it at the other.

With respect , Duty , that is nonsense.  Had Jadeja not got out these last two overs would have been very much on the edge.

Dhoni six to start the penultimate over...but he's brilliantly run out now and that is Game Over .  But a heck of a match !

The RRR had just edged above 12 when Jadeja got out. I don't think this was particularly close at any stage, maybe it would have been if Dhoni was scoring heavily.  But it was far too much to ask of one man.

Well all academic now , of course. But they fell 18 runs short with three balls left : you don't think Jadeja was capable of hitting a couple more sixes if he'd not got out ? Truly NZ maintained a slight edge : but I'd say under ten runs (very likely , no ? With another two overs of Jadeja) qualifies as "close"

Never mind. Great match for the neutral.

Henry MotM ? Deserved I guess but I'd have given it to Jadeja ...

Its certainly one of the smaller margins of victory in the world cup but they never looked likely to do it after that start. It's a miracle they even made it look close on paper.

So a close score but a result never really in doubt after the first few overs of today.

Isn't it great to see India lose. Saw a poll on twitter yesterday who they would play in the final

compelling and rich wrote:people really do like to blame dhoni. top 3 got 3 between them but its the guy who hit 50 fault. top 3 see off the new ball they walk that total.

Indeed . It is frankly silly to blame Dhoni. He isn't in his prime years and can no longer play like his younger self ; but if it weren't for him Jadeja would have been left without partners and fifty runs adrift ages ago. He did what he could ...it just wasn't enough - because the top order failed and left him with too much to do. I salute both him and Jadeja for that effort .

India were hindered by the injury to Dhawan, but also by their inability to develop a middle order over the last few years. All the chopping and changing just left the matter in a state of confusion.

Great game. It could have gone right down to the wire.

They were getting many 9s and 10s per over save a few 3s and 4s in the last 10 overs or so.
They only needed 10 runs per over off the last 4... which they had already been doing regularly from around the 40th over.
The key wickets of Jadeja and Dhoni took the engine for scoring those runs with it. Then New Zealand finished the job.

The best semi final in a long time I would say.

Pal Joey wrote:Great game. It could have gone right down to the wire.

They were getting many 9s and 10s per over save a few 3s and 4s in the last 10 overs or so.
They only needed 10 runs off the last 4... which they had already been doing from around the 40th over.
The key wickets of Jadeja and Dhoni took the engine for scoring those runs with it. Then they finished the job.

The best semi final in a long time I would say.

Well I see you and I were watching the same game anyway , PJ

Perhaps it looked different on Northern Hemisphere TV

Agree a great contest. And I get to sleep before 12-30 . A win-win

What a game, well played NZ.

Mind you India have been poor this world cup lol.

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Jadeja gone.

I don't think this has been particularly close, despite the commentators sensationalising it. At no point were these two, as a partnership, scoring heavily enough to trouble NZ. The RRR was always climbing, not descending. Jadeja was doing fantastically at one end, but Dhoni was undermining it at the other.

With respect , Duty , that is nonsense.  Had Jadeja not got out these last two overs would have been very much on the edge.

Dhoni six to start the penultimate over...but he's brilliantly run out now and that is Game Over .  But a heck of a match !

The RRR had just edged above 12 when Jadeja got out. I don't think this was particularly close at any stage, maybe it would have been if Dhoni was scoring heavily.  But it was far too much to ask of one man.

Well all academic now , of course.  But they fell 18 runs short with three balls left : you don't think Jadeja was capable of hitting a couple more sixes if he'd not got out ?  Truly NZ maintained a slight edge : but I'd say under ten runs (very likely , no ? With another two overs of Jadeja) qualifies as "close"

Never mind.  Great match for the neutral.

Henry MotM ?  Deserved I guess but I'd have given it to Jadeja ...

With 40 overs gone, the RRR was 9. 45 overs gone, it had increased to 10.5. 47 overs gone, it had increased again to 12.33.

The partnership was not harming NZ - the game was getting further and further away from India. Going at more than 10 an over at Old Trafford is difficult enough, when it had to got to above 2 runs a ball it was practically impossible.

Of course, if Jadeja had stayed out there, he might have struck a few more sixes to win his side the game, but that's straying into highly unlikely territory on this ground. The sort of once-in-a-blue-moon innings e.g. Kevin O'Brien against England, or Brathwaite a few years ago. Aside from Jadeja's effort, there were only two sixes hit in the entire contest.

TightHEAD wrote:What a game, well played NZ.

Mind you India have been poor this world cup lol.

They beat Australia. So we're glad they're out of the way.
A proven very dangerous group of players, India. I think the way they went down fighting was amazing. Classic World Cup class cricket.  

Safe to say Australia probably feared India more than England... the No.1 Team In The World

for about 120 Weeks.  

I think Dhoni didnt exactly help but it's not their middle order that was then problem...it was their top 4 getting out for peanuts.
Indias batting is as deep as it's ever been in line up. 5 and 6 are weak ( and Pants not really got a head for pressure yet it seems) but there still would easily have been enough between them if the top 3 had made something like 50 off 12 overs.

The chipping and changing is often driven by looking to ballance the bowling attack, and injuries have obviously exposed it even more. Picking Dinesh we all agree was a bit dumb, but that middle order still made more runs that the top.

India just got caught out. New Zealand like Aus have a few very good players who can carry the average ones, and maybe conditions have suited them a bit.


On KPFs comment about the toss...pretty sure kholi said before it doesnt affect conditions ( in the article he posted) , just pressure. Indias much vaunted top order ( minus dhawan) couldn't handle it. They choked.

I think Dhoni didnt exactly help but it's not their middle order that was then problem...it was their top 4 getting out for peanuts.
Indias batting is as deep as it's ever been in line up. 5 and 6 are weak ( and Pants not really got a head for pressure yet it seems) but there still would easily have been enough between them if the top 3 had made something like 50 off 12 overs.

The chipping and changing is often driven by looking to ballance the bowling attack, and injuries have obviously exposed it even more. Picking Dinesh we all agree was a bit dumb, but that middle order still made more runs that the top.

India just got caught out. New Zealand like Aus have a few very good players who can carry the average ones, and maybe conditions have suited them a bit.


On KPFs comment about the toss...pretty sure kholi said before it doesnt affect conditions ( in the article he posted) , just pressure. Indias much vaunted top order ( minus dhawan) couldn't handle it. They choked.

Weather in Birmingham looks pretty lousy for tomorrow. Might be a DLS-affected game.

Let's face it. It was a pretty freakish match played over two days.

It was a huge win against all odds... although we always say the Kiwis know how to think 'big stage' too. And they always try to execute.
Whether rugby or cricket - they are highly skilled sports-minded folk (at a very high level) and they don't lie down easily when their backs are against the wall.

I think India got a bit caught out on that this morning.
It was if they weren't expecting that magnitude of determination from NZ to win (against all odds) and have another crack at a Final.

compelling and rich wrote:people really do like to blame dhoni. top 3 got 3 between them but its the guy who hit 50 fault. top 3 see off the new ball they walk that total.

Remember back to the England Australia game - Woakes had Warner and Finch unable to get a nick for his first 4 or 5 overs, but they survived as much by luck as judgement, and then went on to build the base for a good total. It shows that there is an element of luck involved - if it's your day as a batsman, you play and miss or the edges don't go to hand. Today wasn't India's day, although obviously NZ's bowlers played quite a large part in that

Yet Jadeja could've been out 4 or 5 times more than he was.

So maybe they were lucky at times.

Joey who doesnt love a two day semi?

Duty....forecasts grey but low chances of rain through the day. They might be on off or start a touch late, but little danger of not having a full game, theres a theoretical finish till 9pm.

Gooseberry wrote:Joey who doesnt love a two day semi?

Duty....forecasts grey but low chances of rain through the day. They might be on off or start a touch late, but little danger of not having a full game, theres  a theoretical finish till 9pm.

Finals in half darkness and intermittent rain are quite good too.

Gooseberry wrote:Joey who doesnt love a two day semi?

it's alright aslong as your work apron covers it

I have no words to say. This loss hurts even more than than 2015 WC semi and CT 2017.

Cricket is a team sport but Indian team relied much on top 3. They played in 8 matches and they sailed India to victory. They failed, India lost the match.

Coming to Dhoni-Jadeja partnership. It was brilliant. Dhoni put one end fixed and jadeja scored runs. But here comes a play. When the game was in the last 10 with India needing 90 odd runs to win, everytime the strike was with dhoni he took a single every 3 balls, putting way too pressure on jadeja to score 7-8 runs in every over, and to my surprise he scored that runs too.

Coming to 24 ball 42, run Dhoni style didn't changed. In the 3rd last over India went for only 5 runs and the pressure on Jadeja was high enough that he tried and out.

We all knew that taking the game to last over is not working anymore as seen from the last 5 matches. However the big mat took it to the last and as usual failed. India lost another knockout games.

I will be biased if I miss to give credit to NZ players. Boult and Henry did exactly they were asked to do i.e. Wrap up Indian top order. They did it pretty well. My goodness Neesam and Guptil were way better that any best fielder in the whole World Cup. That run out of Dhoni from Guptil was brilliant. The tag of Captain cool goes to Kane Williamson. You deserved it NZ.

Again for my team. India you gave your fans a brilliant show in the whole World Cup. You dominated the league stage and we had a feeling of World Best side for all the league matches. I am proud of you all except one man. You need to make way more changes in the middle order. All the best.

Pal Joey wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:What a game, well played NZ.

Mind you India have been poor this world cup lol.

They beat Australia. So we're glad they're out of the way.
A proven very dangerous group of players, India. I think the way they went down fighting was amazing. Classic World Cup class cricket.  

Safe to say Australia probably feared India more than England... the No.1 Team In The World

for about 120 Weeks.  

Thanks Pal. I was so sad after the game.

But all credit to NZ. They outplayed India, the only team in the WC to do so.

No wonder Michael Bewan is still the best finisher ever.

I feel so proud that Aussies great always put off their boots to allow new players to come in but India greats, be it Sachin, Laxman, and many other try to elongate their career and in between many young players lose their place. We had time after 2017 CT loss to cover up for our middle order, but we didn't. And in 1 out of 9 matches our top order failed and we lost.

Aussies are the favourites for me now. They will lift the cup 6th time from here.

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Jadeja gone.

I don't think this has been particularly close, despite the commentators sensationalising it. At no point were these two, as a partnership, scoring heavily enough to trouble NZ. The RRR was always climbing, not descending. Jadeja was doing fantastically at one end, but Dhoni was undermining it at the other.

With respect , Duty , that is nonsense.  Had Jadeja not got out these last two overs would have been very much on the edge.

Dhoni six to start the penultimate over...but he's brilliantly run out now and that is Game Over .  But a heck of a match !

The RRR had just edged above 12 when Jadeja got out. I don't think this was particularly close at any stage, maybe it would have been if Dhoni was scoring heavily.  But it was far too much to ask of one man.

Well all academic now , of course.  But they fell 18 runs short with three balls left : you don't think Jadeja was capable of hitting a couple more sixes if he'd not got out ?  Truly NZ maintained a slight edge : but I'd say under ten runs (very likely , no ? With another two overs of Jadeja) qualifies as "close"

Never mind.  Great match for the neutral.

Henry MotM ?  Deserved I guess but I'd have given it to Jadeja ...

With 40 overs gone, the RRR was 9. 45 overs gone, it had increased to 10.5. 47 overs gone, it had increased again to 12.33.

The partnership was not harming NZ - the game was getting further and further away from India. Going at more than 10 an over at Old Trafford is difficult enough, when it had to got to above 2 runs a ball it was practically impossible.

Of course, if Jadeja had stayed out there, he might have struck a few more sixes to win his side the game, but that's straying into highly unlikely territory on this ground. The sort of once-in-a-blue-moon innings e.g. Kevin O'Brien against England, or Brathwaite a few years ago. Aside from Jadeja's effort, there were only two sixes hit in the entire contest.

42 from 24, with two players who can hit big playing on the crease. Situation remain similar in 7 out of 10 games chasing these days. And team batting win 8 out of 10 matches in these situation. It seems difficult to you because I have not seen England doing any sort of things, but other teams be it NZ, Aussies or SA do. Last game between SA and Australia is a classic example.

It just NZ outplayed India(only team to do so).

Australia and NZ to fight for the cup on 14th. Aussies have 60% chance of winning it.

On the basis that England beat India, I'd think they'd have a fair claim to having outplayed them as well!

Also saying Aus vs NZ final, seems dangerous to make such an assumption after what we have seen today. Final knockout stages tend to be a lottery in all major sporting events. England definitely have a chance

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Jadeja gone.

I don't think this has been particularly close, despite the commentators sensationalising it. At no point were these two, as a partnership, scoring heavily enough to trouble NZ. The RRR was always climbing, not descending. Jadeja was doing fantastically at one end, but Dhoni was undermining it at the other.

With respect , Duty , that is nonsense.  Had Jadeja not got out these last two overs would have been very much on the edge.

Dhoni six to start the penultimate over...but he's brilliantly run out now and that is Game Over .  But a heck of a match !

The RRR had just edged above 12 when Jadeja got out. I don't think this was particularly close at any stage, maybe it would have been if Dhoni was scoring heavily.  But it was far too much to ask of one man.

Well all academic now , of course.  But they fell 18 runs short with three balls left : you don't think Jadeja was capable of hitting a couple more sixes if he'd not got out ?  Truly NZ maintained a slight edge : but I'd say under ten runs (very likely , no ? With another two overs of Jadeja) qualifies as "close"

Never mind.  Great match for the neutral.

Henry MotM ?  Deserved I guess but I'd have given it to Jadeja ...

With 40 overs gone, the RRR was 9. 45 overs gone, it had increased to 10.5. 47 overs gone, it had increased again to 12.33.

The partnership was not harming NZ - the game was getting further and further away from India. Going at more than 10 an over at Old Trafford is difficult enough, when it had to got to above 2 runs a ball it was practically impossible.

Of course, if Jadeja had stayed out there, he might have struck a few more sixes to win his side the game, but that's straying into highly unlikely territory on this ground. The sort of once-in-a-blue-moon innings e.g. Kevin O'Brien against England, or Brathwaite a few years ago. Aside from Jadeja's effort, there were only two sixes hit in the entire contest.

42 from 24, with two players who can hit big playing on the crease. Situation remain similar in 7 out of 10 games chasing these days. And team batting win 8 out of 10 matches in these situation. It seems difficult to you because I have not seen England doing any sort of things, but other teams be it NZ, Aussies or SA do. Last game between SA and Australia is a classic example.

It just NZ outplayed India(only team to do so).

Australia and NZ to fight for the cup on 14th. Aussies have 60% chance of winning it.

England would be one of the teams I would back to do it in that situation. 42 from 24 for India with only one batsman capable of striking regular boundaries and not much batting depth, on a ground with sizeable boundaries, is a highly unlikely task. If they were playing at Nottingham, it would be a lot more possible. I'm not sure how SA/Australia is a classic example, because the chasing side fell short in that one. And your made-up statistics are of little interest to me.

I think you're rather foolish (insane?) to write England off, as they've outplayed both India and New Zealand so far, and as such are rightly the bookies' favourites for the competition. If you really fancy Australia, though, 9/4 is still available.

dummy_half wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:people really do like to blame dhoni. top 3 got 3 between them but its the guy who hit 50 fault. top 3 see off the new ball they walk that total.

Remember back to the England Australia game - Woakes had Warner and Finch unable to get a nick for his first 4 or 5 overs, but they survived as much by luck as judgement, and then went on to build the base for a good total. It shows that there is an element of luck involved - if it's your day as a batsman, you play and miss or the edges don't go to hand. Today wasn't India's day, although obviously NZ's bowlers played quite a large part in that

Woakes bowled a touch too short to get the edge. Looks good but usually unthreatening, unless batsman wafts as Rahul did.

Kohli's wicket reminded me of how he got out to Rashid last year. Both very good balls but if Kohli is playing straight he gets some bat on it.

Funniest thing I saw was KP lambasting Pant on twitter. Needless to say there were a lot of comments coming back.

VTR wrote:On the basis that England beat India, I'd think they'd have a fair claim to having outplayed them as well!

Also saying Aus vs NZ final, seems dangerous to make such an assumption after what we have seen today. Final knockout stages tend to be a lottery in all major sporting events. England definitely have a chance

And England won by a bigger margin!

I think I've got England down as solid favourites tomorrow. In-form, ground they love, already won do-or-die pressure games, strongest XI available - everything's in place. If it were at Lord's I'd probably make the Aussies favourites, though!

New Zealand making their 2nd successive World Cup Finals. And again, they have come out at the right side of a close semi final though perhaps not as close as the 2015 game. They bowled well and mostly fielded well. The early weather conditions provided a bit of a challenge to the batting side and the Indian top order just wasn't up to it. Rohit played at one with proper footwork and edtged behind, Kohli, the one man who could have weathered the challenging conditions found himself at the wrong end of an umpire's call LBW. Rahul didn't seem to quite know what to do, attack or defend and ended up doing neither. Dinesh Karthik was Dinesh Karthik, useless as expected and whichever idiot decided to play him ahead of Jadhav should get a lot of blame. DK was apparently picked to bat 7 and smoke it in the last 5 overs as he can't really bat beyond 20 balls on average!! I said it was stupid to pick him ahead of Pant in the squad, I couldn't understand why on earth they played him as a specialist bat then! And DK didn't surprise anyone.
Pant and Pandya would hopefully learn from this experience. If they had a bit of the Dhoni cool, the outcome perhaps would have been different. They both took their time, got set, got to 30s, had a bit of luck on the way, and then brainlessly gave it away with poor shot selection. Pant in particular, really needs to work on his shot selection, he has done this far too often in his young career.
What about the great man? Has he fluffed it up? I was critical of MS about the way he went about the England chase. I don't have too many complaints against him today. India didn't lose because of Mahendra Singh Dhoni today. He played a big part in keeping them alive in the game from a wrightoff position of 92 for 6. Perhaps he could have taken a risk or 2 in the 46th and 47th over rather than leaving it all to Jadeja. Till then, he played a fine hand indeed. Just didn't look like getting out. All the more puzzling why the no-hoper was sent in at 5 ahead of him. MS should have batted 5 today, just as usual. Perhaps, the likes of Pant would have played a more judicious hand in his guidance. Kohli-Shastri really fluffed it up with their stupid selections and strange batting order.

What a hand from Ravindra Jadeja. Perhaps, he should have started the tournament. I did suggest that at the start of India's campaign, either for Jadhav or Kuldeep. Even when Kuldeep was bowling himself out of form they didn't consider him, even when they dropped batting all-rounder Jadhav, they went for the backup wicketkeeper as the extra batsman. They played Jadeja when it was impossible to carry on with Kuldeep-Chahal combination any more. But what a response from Jadeja. His batting has improved in the last couple of years as his test performances have suggested. He doesn't have a textbook batting technique, but he likes batting in England and often produces these knocks in tough batting conditions. Today's effort was brave, calculated and confident. Perhaps he could have done with a little bit more support from Dhoni in those last 2 or 3 overs, he might still have managed to pull this off.
And not to forget his efforts in the field today, just sensational, and quite effective with the ball too yesterday.

New Zealand deserve a lot of credit. Kane Williamson and Ross Taylor, their most experienced batters made sure they have something to bowl at on a good pitch. Williamson did well to bowl boult the crucial 48 over though that was his last over. He again did well not to keep Henry for the last 2, Neesham is a better operater in that absolute last face... Guptill decided to turn up for the WC at a very opportune moment with a dramatic impact. Santner was brilliant with the ball and excellent in the field. As the tournament has progressed, Santner's old confidence seems to be returning. He's not your run-through-the-lineup spinner, more steady than spectacular and you had to really the runs against him, nothing to be freely given away. He still was bowling it a touch flattish today, but quite accurate and mighty effective. India did manage to target the New Zealand 5th bowler the Neesham-CdG combine, but the hugely improved showing from Henry and the fine performance from Santner meant Boult and Ferguson could get much greater support.

Looking forward to tomorrow, hope the rain doesn' spoil the cricket. How's the track looking like? On the flattish side, serious advantage England. They would be determined, hugely motivated and would have great home support. The way bounced back after that Australia game, they should be in a good mental space going into tomorrow.
Australia would be hoping for a sporting track. If its a lively track, its advantage Australia, though they would be hoping for a bit of seam and bounce rather than swing... But they have fitness concerns, Stoinis seems to be available though he's been struggling with fitness concerns throughout the tournament. If they don't play Maxwell as speculated, it might be asking too much of Stoinis to bowl his 10 overs. In any case, he's not that good through the middle overs. He has evolved into a surprisingly decent death over option, but is pretty average otherwise. Without Maxwell, Smith might have to go back to his legspin a bit, and even Finch might have to roll his arm over for a couple. Don't see them creating much of a challenge to the English batsmen, though they did manage the other day to make Dhananjaya De Silva look like the greatest spin sensation to have emerged from Sri Lanka since Murali!

Toss will be another crucial factor. Win toss and bat first regardless of conditions unless they are absolutely extreme in favour of bowling. Scoreboard pressure in a World Cup game, that too a knockout game is a different thing altogether, just as India found out today...

According to Cricinfo (just so we're all aware!):

The pitch is two across from the one on which the England-India game was played, so the shorter boundary is a bit longer.

Duty281 wrote:

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:

alfie wrote:

Duty281 wrote:Jadeja gone.

I don't think this has been particularly close, despite the commentators sensationalising it. At no point were these two, as a partnership, scoring heavily enough to trouble NZ. The RRR was always climbing, not descending. Jadeja was doing fantastically at one end, but Dhoni was undermining it at the other.

With respect , Duty , that is nonsense.  Had Jadeja not got out these last two overs would have been very much on the edge.

Dhoni six to start the penultimate over...but he's brilliantly run out now and that is Game Over .  But a heck of a match !

The RRR had just edged above 12 when Jadeja got out. I don't think this was particularly close at any stage, maybe it would have been if Dhoni was scoring heavily.  But it was far too much to ask of one man.

Well all academic now , of course.  But they fell 18 runs short with three balls left : you don't think Jadeja was capable of hitting a couple more sixes if he'd not got out ?  Truly NZ maintained a slight edge : but I'd say under ten runs (very likely , no ? With another two overs of Jadeja) qualifies as "close"

Never mind.  Great match for the neutral.

Henry MotM ?  Deserved I guess but I'd have given it to Jadeja ...

With 40 overs gone, the RRR was 9. 45 overs gone, it had increased to 10.5. 47 overs gone, it had increased again to 12.33.

The partnership was not harming NZ - the game was getting further and further away from India. Going at more than 10 an over at Old Trafford is difficult enough, when it had to got to above 2 runs a ball it was practically impossible.

Of course, if Jadeja had stayed out there, he might have struck a few more sixes to win his side the game, but that's straying into highly unlikely territory on this ground. The sort of once-in-a-blue-moon innings e.g. Kevin O'Brien against England, or Brathwaite a few years ago. Aside from Jadeja's effort, there were only two sixes hit in the entire contest.

42 from 24, with two players who can hit big playing on the crease. Situation remain similar in 7 out of 10 games chasing these days. And team batting win 8 out of 10 matches in these situation. It seems difficult to you because I have not seen England doing any sort of things, but other teams be it NZ, Aussies or SA do. Last game between SA and Australia is a classic example.

It just NZ outplayed India(only team to do so).

Australia and NZ to fight for the cup on 14th. Aussies have 60% chance of winning it.

England would be one of the teams I would back to do it in that situation. 42 from 24 for India with only one batsman capable of striking regular boundaries and not much batting depth, on a ground with sizeable boundaries, is a highly unlikely task. If they were playing at Nottingham, it would be a lot more possible. I'm not sure how SA/Australia is a classic example, because the chasing side fell short in that one. And your made-up statistics are of little interest to me.

I think you're rather foolish (insane?) to write England off, as they've outplayed both India and New Zealand so far, and as such are rightly the bookies' favourites for the competition. If you really fancy Australia, though, 9/4 is still available.

England would not be the one team to back in this situation. If I am to believe you, situation against Pakistan was quite the same, or even better because your top order has fired. Again Look at SL match, the situation was more or less the same. To make you clear, remember the T20 where Bumrah defended 8 run against your team even when you had 6 wickets in hand.

I barely pay attention to T20s when they happen, let alone remember them!

But yes, England would certainly be one of the teams I would back in such a situation - though they haven't shown it at this World Cup (yet?), they have been formidable chasers over the past four years.

India had practically zero chance once the RRR crossed 10. Only Jadeja was finding the boundary rope with any regularity at that stage. Dhoni was doing nothing and there was only three tailenders to come. If they had more wickets in hand, of course it would have been different.

Again I never meant to belittle English Performance. They came to the World Cup as the best side, beating all the sides with quite a margin in the last two years. They bat deep and have allrounder like Stokes and Wokes who are more lethal than many pace bowlers around the world. Roy and Baristow no doubt are one of the best pair in the present cup, almost similar to Finch and Warner and little above Rohit and Dhawan/Rahul.

Tomorrow match at Birmingham would be crucial for them. Aussies had never lost a Semi and English would have their first and best chance to Win the WC. As a neutral I would love to see a good and competitive cricket, no matter who wins.

All the best guys. And don't take NZ lightly, they probably defeated the best team to reach the Final.

In 15 quarter-finals, semi-finals or finals that Kohli has played in his career including today's, he averages 29, almost half his career average of 59.70.

Tendulkar, who averaged 44.83 in a 463-match ODI career, increased that average to 52.84 from 52 knockout matches.

Big matches and Indian top Big have flopped.

Hard luck India anyway, they have been the best team but cricket is such a game that anyone can be not many for 5 on a given day, and that's going to be a defeat more often than not. They did well to even get close after that, and it was a fantastic innings from Jadeja. He's a player that I have never understood why he is in and out of the side, whenever he is left out vs England I am pleased with that.

I think I would have seen Dhoni in earlier. Perhaps at 4, definitely at 5 after Kohli fell. He could have built a couple of partnerships with Pant, Kartik and Pandya who could have tried to keep the scoring rate up. He's not the finisher he was in 2011, but he could have come in and helped steady the ship. 5-3 was bad but 92-6 is hardly a recovery in the middle period. They needed a big 100 run partnership earlier in the piece to transfer some pressure back to NZ, and having 3 hitters in Pant, Kartik and Pandya trying to team up to do it wasn't the best shout.

That's not to blame Dhoni, he did what he could. I think they could have used him better.

Credit to NZ. They took wickets throughout and held their nerve at the end. Not many people gave them much of a chance, especially after the run of form they've been on, but they're in the final now and 1 game from a trophy.

Yeah, Dhoni should have been in earlier, for me. He could have done that for longer and settled things, leaving the fireworks to the others as time went.

It was sad but not surprising that we got knocked out.
I had written before the start in part-1 of this thread that our middle and lower order is vulnerable and our soft underbelly got badly exposed today.
I had put India at No. 4 in my preview & that's where they finished.

There are pressures of chasing but 239  should have been surmounted INSPITE of any pressures.


For a while Rohit's brilliance papered over many a cracks and that was helped by not having to chase too often.

In the aftermath:

1-We never recovered from loss of Dhawan
2- And hence we lost Rahul at 4

3-and we never found a replacement no.4....we aimed for a build-the-inning type and then dumped that for a hitter....and were found needing build inning types today and didn't have them.

Having DK in the playing 11 reflected our chaos...of trying to fill too many gaps with one man & hence he delivered nothing.

4-Kohli will go down as a batsman who could not rise to the occasion of  world cup

Kohli the captain floundered under pressure....like  man chasing the shadow was too reactive to the weaknesses of previous games.

5-Tabloids might try to paint this as a close-game....a thriller.....but it never was.

Once the chase started...India was always behind the 8 ball....and Jadeja's inning was like Carrey's vs Ind..... when Oppn took the victory for granted.....the No.8 counter attacked...but it was a matter of time before he fell....and the sand castle came down.

6- Dhoni cannot be blamed.....he delivered what he was capable and what he was capable was visible to all for last two years.
It was decided as a package he was still valuable by the selectors and team management..... and I do agree he was valuable.
Even today Dhoni if sent at 5 would have been more valuable than DK.


Tomorrow's prognosis is simple.....

Of the two team Aus seems the only one capable of winning in a chase, it will be difficult & lower probability but they have mental strength to chase.
Eng can only win batting first.

Happy to be proven wrong.

Agree re Dhoni. The rabid bunch on cricinfo are already building the bonfires outside his house, yet are happy to overlook 5-3 and blame the guy who actually scored some runs. He isn't the same player as a few years ago but proved he still had value even today as someone who could at least stay in, plus he was still a decent keeper. Should definitely have come in earlier when a calm innings would have been more valuable.

Four matches at Edgbaston so far this WC:

NZ chase 245 successfully vs SA
Pakistan chase 241 successfully vs NZ
India lose but make 306 chasing
Bangladesh lose but make 286 chasing

I don't think chasing is quite the death knell it is being made out to be in some areas of the media, especially at Edgbaston. In fact, it could end up being a (cliche alert) good toss to lose if rain comes into it.

It's Eng-ger-land against the old enemy at Birmingham. Raucous, proper atmosphere. The venue of so many great English victories over Australia down the years. England's favourite ground and Australia's most miserly.

No worries whatsoever. Chasing or setting doesn't matter. Going to be a cruise.

I can’t tell if I’m hugely excited or hugely nervous - whatever it is, can’t wait for tomorrow and hope the weather gods smile on Birmingham

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/jul/08/australia-england-world-cup-semi-final

This is straight from the Glenn Hoddle school of management.

I must admit that I'm fairly nervous about tomorrows game. That sums up how this World Cup has engaged me more than in ODI cricket has in many a year. It also likely sums up the expectation that this England side had going into the home World Cup.

It's so hard to call. England have the greater batting depth but then the Aussies have the better strike pair in Starc and Cummins. Both sides have huge power at the top of the order and an anchor who can judge an innings to perfection.

If I had to call it then I'd say England for a narrow win with Buttler coming good at the business end once Starc and Cummins have bowled most their overs.

Could easily go either way.  Fair to say both teams are a bit dependent on their opening pairs getting them off to a good start : not that they can't recover from losing early wickets but it does tend to limit their score potential.
Think England has the better overall batting list but agree with king carlos the Aussie attack has a greater pedigree (would help England a lot if the Real Rashid could turn up for this one!)
Also suggest a couple of Big Guns might be due to fire : Smith for Australia has been quiet - as has Jos Buttler for England since those early couple of matches. Either are capable of turning a match on their own.

Will the toss be vital ? Maybe. Depends on the pitch - and whether the winning captain assesses it correctly. And of course on the weather. Do hope we don't get an interrupted day - for the very selfish reason that if it is subject to delays I might be forced to stay up all bloody night watching it   A three o'clock finish is bad enough ...

The one day this week I have to be out at a client's all day.

Hoping for a bit of rain if anything so I can get some TMS time on the train home. Or a complete washout today so I can WFH tomorrow.

Ultimately though I'd be happy with an England win even if I missed the whole thing if it meant seeing the final on Sunday - which incidentally will be on free-to-air if we make it.

That opening partnership is going to be big - especially against the Aussie opening bowlers. I feel like we're more equipped to get wickets in the middle periods, especially if Rashid can chip in, so as long as we don't lose the game in the power plays we have a decent chance.

If we bowl first with a bit of movement, I hope Woakes and Archer push their lengths up and we should be fine. Let's not forget, Australia were 123-1 after 22.4 overs at the loss of their first wicket and 185-3 after 35.3 overs when Finch left. In the remaining 14.3 overs, they only scored 100 runs, despite the platform they had. Their batting line up isn't infallible.

Weather is better than had been forecast. Therss plenty of light grey cloud but no sniff of rain and it should stay like this all day.
Maybe some early help for the seamers? Dont expect it to be like yesterday in Manchester though. I'd expect whoever wins the toss to bat first based on what's happened in almost every game in the world cup so far. That said if England think it will start quick and slow up as happened in the India game they might not want to give starc and Cummins that edge.

I think on the whole Aus are more reliant on a few stars, whereas England have less place fillers. Injuries playing a part too , theres still no certainty on who's fit for Aus and how much certain players like Rashid and Archer will be limited.

When do Aus use strac? Hes terrorised lower order batsmen in the closing overs but England bat much deeper than most and might not be so easily brushed aside. Is Lyon absolute junk or the greatest finger spinner of the modern generation? Or just a decent bowler but hopeless troll?

People rightly se e this is the much more even contest of the two semis. So expect it to be a one sided blowout.

Ooof yet another change in the weather forecast, theres now a chance of thunderstorms in the afternoon, and not just Morgan taking Maxwells pies apart.  

Typical British summer, always carry a brolly.