ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 4

by Duty281 Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:02 am

First topic message reminder :

Yes, England expected to be unchanged. Long boundaries apparently, which will suit England's excellent running ability!

If there were a decent replacement in the wings, I think Rashid's place would be under severe threat. He's got figures of 7/403 from 69 overs in the World Cup so far, which is hardly illuminating stuff.

by dummy_half Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Is it just me, or does this really not feel like an ODI at the moment? The Aussies just looking to play a bit of time to cool the situation and see off the opening bowlers.

Anyway, 27/3 from the power play. Really couldn't ask for much more...

by dummy_half Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:22 pm

Goose

I would rate Jadeja a better cricketer than Handscomb anyway, and certainly more experienced at dealing with pressure situations.

I also understand that Handscomb hasn't played much for the A side (unlike Wade).

I'm not excusing his failure, but just saying I have some sympathy given he was put in a very difficult position

by robbo277 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:25 pm

Stokes is an interesting choice at first change. Guess Morgan just has a hunch? Does he swing it more than Wood or Plunkett?

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:26 pm

Yeah I'm wondering if they have a theory about him and Smith?

Still keeping it tight anyway.

by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:27 pm

Seems like the same story continued like Yesterday.

Aussies reeling with 3 down in the power play. I don't know how much smith and carey will take from here. Australia doesnot have a depth in batting. Maxwell can hit but again its all depend on the situation he comes to bat. I don't remember any Maxwell inning in pressure situation. Stoinis is like Dinesh Mongia of 2003 Indian squad.

Anything around 250 would be good for Australia. Chasing is always a problem for England.

Well Power Play score of top 3 semifinalist is below 28. Let's see What is in the bag for today evening.

Besides any updates of weather from Birmingham?

by dummy_half Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:28 pm

robbo277 wrote:Stokes is an interesting choice at first change. Guess Morgan just has a hunch? Does he swing it more than Wood or Plunkett?

On occasion, Stokes can get big swing - remember the inswinger that he got Holder with in the last Windies tour here? Moved a foot and a half in the air.

Anyway, only one off his first over, so the run rate pressure is maintained

by James100 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:30 pm

Plunkett doesn't swing it so I'm guessing he went for the two most likely to continue to get movement

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:30 pm

Great stop by Woakes on the boundary.

Anyone else get concerned with Wood's direction? He does bowl a lot of wides.

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:30 pm

Urghh Wood seems to be unsure where the stumps are ...all over the shop

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:33 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

by alfie Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Poor start from Wood. All over the place first over. He will improve.

Disagree some of the comments about Carey. He can bat a bit. And is in great form...England will do well to get him while it's still moving.

England well on top but with Smith in there is always work to do...he has started very carefully : but he has a record of turning tentative starts into big innings. Get him and it really would be crisis time for Australia...

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:36 pm

Even though I think a par score on this pitch is 310-320, I would say that if the Aussies get to 250 they will feel confident enough as they have to bowlers to contain sides.

Very interesting right now, especially if these two form a decent partnership.

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:39 pm

alfie wrote:Poor start from Wood. All over the place first over. He will improve.

Disagree some of the comments about Carey. He can bat a bit. And is in great form...England will do well to get him while it's still moving.

England well on top but with Smith in there is always work to do...he has started very carefully : but he has a record of turning tentative starts into big innings. Get him and it really would be crisis time for Australia...

Hes not a top order bat though, and thats the job hes being asked to do. His best batting format is T20, they need a test batsman in this situation.

That said hes looking increasingly comfortable, as is Smith. And he has had a fantastic world cup, seems to thrive under the pressure

by KP_fan Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Wood's released pressure a bit....Eng's fielding is amazingly top class so far

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Australia would give anything to get 250 from this position.

Reality is, they have precious little batting depth and a couple of quick wickets would severely jeopardise them getting to even 200. Get Smith out and the whole thing could collapse swiftly.

by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:41 pm

Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is always a problem for England.

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:44 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is always a problem for England.

But this is the reality of the situation. England have a 83% chasing success rate in their last 23 ODIs - that does not mean 'chasing is always a problem for England'. England have had a couple of blips, but haven't become a bad team overnight, neither have they become a side who are unable to chase.

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:46 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is always a problem for England.

Its not really "always a problem" though is it. You cant argue with the recent stats that Duty has posted.

Yes they lost to Pakistan and Sri Lanka but I would not class Pakistan as really weak either since they only just missed out on the semi finals themselves...

by **Afro** Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:48 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is ~~always~~ currently a problem for England.

Think this is probably a better way of phrasing it then

by subhranshu.kumar.5 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:50 pm

Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is always a problem for England.

But this is the reality of the situation. England have a 83% chasing success rate in their last 23 ODIs - that does not mean 'chasing is always a problem for England'. England have had a couple of blips, but haven't become a bad team overnight, neither have they become a side who are unable to chase.

There is a difference in bilateral series and a World Cup. Here pressure is far more than two team contest.

In that case Dhoni too had 47 out of 50 successful run chase, but he failed eventually yesterday to take India across. He failed in that England Match also. World cup semi comes every 4 years, so the stats you are quoting are superb, but this world cup I had not seen English team getting past a chasing total in the tournament. So your 83% becomes 0% here.

Again I said in WC.

by robbo277 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:51 pm

Afro wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is ~~always~~ currently a problem for England.

Think this is probably a better way of phrasing it then

Potentially. But against Pakistan we were chasing a big total and against Sri Lanka and Australia we were chasing without Roy.

If we can restrict Australia to 240 we'll be favourites at the interval. Not 90% favourites or anything mad, but favourites none-the-less.

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:55 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:Chasing is always a problem for England.

England have won 19 out of their last 23 ODI chases in England (one tie; three losses).

England was the best team to enter this World Cup. I had thought that they would reach Semi with none or just one loss but they lost to three weaker teams. So don't come with stats like that.

It's WC and here England has lost 2 chasing games against very weak oppositions. So again Chasing is always a problem for England.

But this is the reality of the situation. England have a 83% chasing success rate in their last 23 ODIs - that does not mean 'chasing is always a problem for England'. England have had a couple of blips, but haven't become a bad team overnight, neither have they become a side who are unable to chase.

There is a difference in bilateral series and a World Cup. Here pressure is far more than two team contest.

In that case Dhoni too had 47 out of 50 successful run chase, but he failed eventually yesterday to take India across. He failed in that England Match also. World cup semi comes every 4 years, so the stats you are quoting are superb, but this world cup I had not seen English team getting past a chasing total in the tournament. So your 83% becomes 0% here.

Again I said in WC.

Chased down a score against the Windies a few weeks ago. Probably going to chase whatever the Aussies post, as well.

You can just use World Cups if you want to, but a successful WC team is built up through the four years of planning and preparation in mostly bilateral series. You can't just turn it on a couple of weeks out from the tournament and expect to be successful (which is what England used to do!).

by alfie Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:56 pm

Conditions seem to have settled down and batting is looking easy enough now. Think Australia may still post a decent total (not likely to be skittled now) even if nowhere near what they'd have originally aimed for.
If England bowl well the target really ought to be kept from being too outrageous. But with the Australian bowlers and the semi final pressure no chase will be easy...

Smith starting to look pretty comfortable . Not sure what plans England have to rein him in...past record suggests they have none - at least none that work Smile

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:57 pm

Carey's face is really swelling up and I would not be surprised if he lost a tooth. Tremendous courage from him to keep batting and not get extra treatment but it may be foolish if he cannot keep wicket in the defence of their total.

by robbo277 Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:57 pm

Smith and Carey starting to look a bit comfortable. Stokes, Wood and Plunkett haven't managed to back up the good work of the openers, but with the batsmen getting set that might not be unexpected.

Time to press the Rashid button? He's had Smith a few times in this format.

by KP_fan Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pm

Morgan is not a wicket-taking captain....like Dhoni uses bowlers to "contain" and not to blow the opposition away and win games.
Letting Aussies drift and this is where game could slip away from Eng

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:59 pm

Why continue to bowl to the pads of Smith. Wood needs to come off now and Plunkett given a shot. Rotation of the bowlers will unsettle Smith.

by alfie Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

Wood just not getting it right to Smith...think it is time for a bit of Rashid.
Going to have to use him sooner or later ; might has well see if changing things around can help disrupt this partnership rather than wait to later on. Need a wicket soon to retain that early edge.

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:01 pm

KP_fan wrote:Morgan is not a wicket-taking captain....like Dhoni uses bowlers to "contain" and not to blow the opposition away and win games.
Letting Aussies drift and this is where game could slip away from Eng

Agree that Morgan is a little too conservative at times. Cant afford to give the Aussies a chance to truly settle.

by James100 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:03 pm

What's Hanscomb like as a keeper? I know he's done it before, but is he a proper specialist or a batter who keeps?

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:04 pm

If Rashid gets Smith, everything else he's done this tournament (or hasn't done) can be forgotten about.

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:06 pm

James100 wrote:What's Hanscomb like as a keeper? I know he's done it before, but is he a proper specialist or a batter who keeps?

He is decent enough and wont let the Aussies down but he has not had time to get truly familiar with the bowlers which will be telling I fear.

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:13 pm

Game drifting, intensity dropping, fielding mistakes starting to happen.

Should bring Woakes or Jofra back for an over or two.

by alfie Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:Why continue to bowl to the pads of Smith. Wood needs to come off now and Plunkett given a shot. Rotation of the bowlers will unsettle Smith.

Actually hard to avoid Smith's pads ...the way he moves across the crease means he is often able to work it away wherever you bowl. Risk being he theoretically makes himself vulnerable to lbw : but he doesn't miss many !

Morgan doing as we suggested: Rashid and Plunkett twinned now. I take KP_fan's point about Morgan : but he is limited by the fact that England don't have a Starc - or a Bumrah or a Boult. So once the new ball has gone their best plan is to attack by keeping score pressure on.

Australia will be relaxing a bit with this partnership thriving. But if it gets broken anytime soon the situation will change quickly. At the moment I think things are back close to even. For what that is worth - really all depends on where it goes in the next 27 overs ...

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:16 pm

This is a stunning partnership considering the position the Aussies were in when they came together. If they stay together until 40 overs then 300 is still on the cards.

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:19 pm

alfie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Why continue to bowl to the pads of Smith. Wood needs to come off now and Plunkett given a shot. Rotation of the bowlers will unsettle Smith.

Actually hard to avoid Smith's pads ...the way he moves across the crease means he is often able to work it away wherever you bowl. Risk being he theoretically makes himself vulnerable to lbw : but he doesn't miss many !

I appreciate Smith's movement but Wood is so one dimensional when bowling to him that it makes his movement that much less (if that makes sense)

These two are strangling England and I sense a bit of urgency creeping into Englands play.

At that, an unnecessary over throw.

by KP_fan Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:19 pm

Rashid is lacking the rippp & revsss I had seen him able to impart in the last...juts "putting" it there and being duly taken apart

by robbo277 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:21 pm

KP_fan wrote:Rashid is lacking the rippp & revsss I had seen him able to impart in the last...juts "putting" it there and being duly taken apart

Shoulder causing him trouble? He came in carrying a knock and has been poor this tournament. It's one thing if the pitch is unresponsive, but if it's not revving out his hand then that's an issue.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:25 pm

People seem surprised...but there was a reason the Aussies batted first - pitch is good! They just hoped that Warner/Finch could get through that initial new ball burst which they couldn't...but these two are doing what Pant/Pandya half did yesterday, rebuilding nicely but unlike the Indians not throwing their wickets away...yet.

England's change bowlers not really threatening now the movement of the new ball has gone

by eirebilly Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:27 pm

Carey has not only shown his quality ODI matches this CWC but in this innings he is showing excellent maturity and looks like he could also be excellent at Test cricket. Paine might be feeling a bit under pressure here for his place in the Ashes.

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:28 pm

Australia are coming back into contention, but still a long way adrift of parity. One wicket and England are back in supreme command. Rashid having no impact, again. Worth dropping him for the final, if England get there?

Carey playing a great, gutsy innings. One of the stars of the tournament, this is his finest effort yet.

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:30 pm

This is exactly when you need the old Rashid to come on and grab a couple of wickets. Sadly hes leaking runs again.

Stokes on to "make something happen"

by dummy_half Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:Australia are coming back into contention, but still a long way adrift of parity. One wicket and England are back in supreme command. Rashid having no impact, again. Worth dropping him for the final, if England get there?

Carey playing a great, gutsy innings. One of the stars of the tournament, this is his finest effort yet.

Makes you wonder what sort of lack of form Moeen is showing in the nets when he isn't getting selected ahead of a clearly struggling Rashid.

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:32 pm

TMS discussion about hwy the grounds half empty ...apparently a lot of Indian fans bought tickets for this one.

Some chap came over from the US to watch it and also got tickets for the final. Oh dear.

by robbo277 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:32 pm

Duty281 wrote:Australia are coming back into contention, but still a long way adrift of parity. One wicket and England are back in supreme command. Rashid having no impact, again. Worth dropping him for the final, if England get there?

Carey playing a great, gutsy innings. One of the stars of the tournament, this is his finest effort yet.

Potentially, but then Moeen, Dawson, Curran or Vince to come in?

by Gooseberry Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

dummy_half wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Australia are coming back into contention, but still a long way adrift of parity. One wicket and England are back in supreme command. Rashid having no impact, again. Worth dropping him for the final, if England get there?

Carey playing a great, gutsy innings. One of the stars of the tournament, this is his finest effort yet.

Makes you wonder what sort of lack of form Moeen is showing in the nets when he isn't getting selected ahead of a clearly struggling Rashid.

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Oh my, Carey's gifted his wicket. All the effort and application just to surrender it so cheaply.

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

Well done on talking that Rashid wicket up chaps!

by alfie Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:33 pm

KP_fan wrote:Rashid is lacking the rippp & revsss I had seen him able to impart in the last...juts "putting" it there and being duly taken apart

Been the case all through this tournament. Hoped he'd produce something today but not really happening so not much of a threat.
That said , Olly is correct in pointing out that the three early wickets rather obscured the fact that this is a good pitch for batting. Australia have just about regained their advantage from winning the toss but they'll want a lot more.

And as I type Carey throws it away...picks out super sub Vince !

by Duty281 Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:35 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Australia are coming back into contention, but still a long way adrift of parity. One wicket and England are back in supreme command. Rashid having no impact, again. Worth dropping him for the final, if England get there?

Carey playing a great, gutsy innings. One of the stars of the tournament, this is his finest effort yet.

Potentially, but then Moeen, Dawson, Curran or Vince to come in?

I'd like to take a punt on Curran, he's a better bet with the bat and can do no worse with the ball, but he seems to have fallen out of favour with the selectors and hasn't played in a while.

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