Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

First topic message reminder :

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?

Sounds more to me like moves are being made at national level by SARU.

The big four franchises is coming to a town near you soon.

Old Man wrote:Sounds more to me like moves are being made at national level by SARU.

The big four franchises is coming to a town near you soon.

They would add greatly to the quality of the league and there would be big games every week. 16 teams is a better balance than 14 too. Let's hope they get some fans behind them.

Be interesting to have them on board. What will they do when there’s European rugby though?

mikey_dragon wrote:Be interesting to have them on board. What will they do when there’s European rugby though?

No idea, Andy Marinos ceo of SANZAAR was saying this week the global season is not far away from being agreed upon, so maybe then better structured seasons, I don’t know.

mikey_dragon wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:This was always going to happen, but people on here just ganged up on me and shouted me down.

I am still adamant that the decision to move the competition to a lesser known pay per view broadcaster was the worst decision the league could ever have made. The leagues popularity has taken a massive nose dive since it's been on Premier Sports.

But hey ho, life still goes on.

I think most people would prefer it on free-to-air TV, but what’s this got to do with the SARU’s financial woes?

Do the SARU have financial woes ? Of all the SANZAR they are in the healthiest position. What we need to ask ourselves is, why did SARU cobble together two teams to put into the Pro14 in the first place ?

My guess is there is a bigger picture, I think, that eventually, South Africa want a piece of the cash cow that is the six nations. At the time, when this was going on, the Pro14 was keeping it's head above water, it was surviving, there was a bit of interest, and in my opinion, it was gaining momentum, and although not practical for the league, it was a good time for the SARU to dip it's toes into it and test the water, to get their foot in the door so to speak, they could still afford to put teams in the SH competition and throw two teams into the Pro12/14.

Fast forward 2/3 years, the league made the decision to put itself behind the wall of a pay per view broadcaster, fair enough. But at that time, whilst the league was gaining momentum on the free to air channels, as soon as it went on a pay per view channel, straight away it lost a massive amount of casual spectators in the UK. I said at the time, that the Pro 14 were making the wrong decision, they were taking the money, and not seeing the bigger picture. How anybody could see such an obscure broadcaster as the way forward is anybodies guess.

Mikey, even you cannot deny, that professional rugby in Wales is in a very precarious place at the moment. The Pro 14 is a distant memory from where it was before it was put onto Premier Sports. The interest is fading, and I would guess the same for the rest of the UK. The SARU now probably think that the Pro 14 is no longer a wise investment. There is not enough people interested, that's not to say it's a bad competition, it's just not being watched, not like it used to be. There is no wonder SARU do not want to pay for two teams in it anymore.

How much longer can Wales afford to put four teams in the Pro 14 ? It's a shame. At the start of the Celtic/Magners/Rabo/Guinness league, I was a staunch supporter, I was a Warriors season ticket holder, then I used to go and watch Cardiff Blues every weekend, I really enjoyed it. If you had BBC Wales on tv, and you were watching the news, or Eastenders, or what ever, they would actually advertise the Friday night game, you would have a montage of clips and the what not, it was in the public domain. Now, nothing. Nobody talks about it down the club anymore, the only place I talk about it is on here, and that is very sporadically.

You are all die hard Pro14 fans on here, so it is very hard for you to sometimes admit that the league has got it wrong, and this is not a dig, but the Pro14 is a million miles away from where it was before it went onto Premier Sports, it's something we need to accept. This is probably why the SARU are deciding not to put the two teams into it anymore.

Old man/Biltong is quoting that the big franchises from South Africa will join. I will be flabbergasted if that came to fruition. But if it did, at least more of the main stream broadcasters like SKY Sports or BT Sports might take an interest and bid for the league next time. But at the moment, in my opinion, the league is on a knife edge.

Yeah they kinda do. The Rand is weak, and they’ve struggled to hold onto their players for the last 10 years. 

As I said I would prefer it on free-to-air. Premier Sports is affordable right now. Usually I would have this as well as BT and Sky Sports but I’ve missed rugby. The South Africans will likely make this a bigger and more lucrative league. We need the WRU to concentrate on bringing in better players and coaches.

Old Man wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Be interesting to have them on board. What will they do when there’s European rugby though?

No idea, Andy Marinos ceo of SANZAAR was saying this week the global season is not far away from being agreed upon, so maybe then better structured seasons, I don’t know.

Probably a done deal then. Looking forward to seeing you rock up in Newport!

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah they kinda do. The Rand is weak, and they’ve struggled to hold onto their players for the last 10 years. 

As I said I would prefer it on free-to-air. Premier Sports is affordable right now. Usually I would have this as well as BT and Sky Sports but I’ve missed rugby. The South Africans will likely make this a bigger and more lucrative league. We need the WRU to concentrate on bringing in better players and coaches.

The rand is weak, but most tv revenue comes in dollars/euros.

Don’t forget DSTV/Supersport has 15 million subscribers.

Can’t tell you how many of those follow rugby, but I can tell you we recieved a lot of congratulations from our African compatriots last year after the RWC

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah they kinda do. The Rand is weak, and they’ve struggled to hold onto their players for the last 10 years.

I reckon they have lost most of their players because of the political nonsense going on there and the quota system. Yes, they can earn more money up here, but that is just how it is, but the opportunities in SA are limited due to the politics.

If SA rugby is in financial trouble, then that does not bode well for the rest of SANZAR as SA and the TV deals from said country more or less prop up the whole SANZAR competitions.

LordDowlais wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah they kinda do. The Rand is weak, and they’ve struggled to hold onto their players for the last 10 years.

I reckon they have lost most of their players because of the political nonsense going on there and the quota system. Yes, they can earn more money up here, but that is just how it is, but the opportunities in SA are limited due to the politics.

If SA rugby is in financial trouble, then that does not bode well for the rest of SANZAR as SA and the TV deals from said country more or less prop up the whole SANZAR competitions.

SARU is in trouble mainly due to Covid19, but they will survive this, they have been astute in their planning over the past four years or so, restructuring the number of contracted professional players, buying the marketing right of their players all to increase the remuneration of their players threefold. Also halved the number of professionally contracting players from over 900 to around 400.

I think they deserve some credit for starting their restructuring way before Covid hit.

Just for the record, I do not think Premier Sports will be showing the Pro14 when their contract comes to an end.

Depends who is willing to pay for the rights. Maybe Premier might decide there’s no value in bidding for the league again? I would also be surprised to see it go back on FTA tv. I have had no issues with Premier, to be fair though. For all the nostalgia about rugby on the BBC every Welsh game wasn’t available to watch live, Scrum V highlights weren’t great (particularly at international time) and the coverage not great either (start broadcasting five mins before kick off etc).

The only thing wrong with Premier seems to be the price they charge pubs etc to show games. I know my old local wouldn’t pay it, but then they’re not really a rugby pub either.

Guess it depends what happens with CVC too.

It’s a bit of both LD, but you’re better off speaking to a straight-talking South African if you really want to know. I think the pro whatever is in good Nick going forward. Viewing rights will go to the highest bidder, BT maybe?

After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

I thought the subscription figures weren't available, as Premier won't release them. Do you have a link or source please, as I am interested to read about that.

Well in a sense, their coverage should be better as they are taking responsibility for their own output now. Strange how there have been a few issues reported, when Sunset & Vine are/were fine with BT.

BBC were sniffing round last time and lost out for whatever reason. Going back onto BBC would be a backwards step for the League.

LordDowlais wrote:After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

No certainty yet, hoewever the rumours are gathering momentum about the big four franchises.

RiscaGame wrote:I thought the subscription figures weren't available, as Premier won't release them. Do you have a link or source please, as I am interested to read about that.

Well in a sense, their coverage should be better as they are taking responsibility for their own output now. Strange how there have been a few issues reported, when Sunset & Vine are/were fine with BT.

BBC were sniffing round last time and lost out for whatever reason. Going back onto BBC would be a backwards step for the League.

You do not like most of the news articles I put up on here because of where I get them from, and to be honest this is just dribs and drabs I have been reading on the net and other forums, but here you go:-

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/37476/pro14-broadcaster-premier-sports-ditch-core-production-partner/

https://www.dai-sport.com/pro14-tv-deal-thrown-into-doubt-as-premier-sports-slash-costs/

https://media.sportbusiness.com/news/premier-sports-raises-questions-over-pro14-highlights/

There was an article on Wales online as well, and it was mentioning BBC. But I will let you find that yourself, as you get offended when I post links to their site on here.

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

No certainty yet, hoewever the rumours are gathering momentum about the big four franchises.

I really hope they come to fruition, although I cannot see it happening without them being allowed to compete in Europe, and SA being in the 6N.

Even the coaches of Union owned teams in the pro14 are calling for a British and Irish league now:

"I’d happily play in a British and Irish league and I’d happily have relegation because it would change the mindset of quite a few [Pro14] teams"

"Some players have never played in a league where there’s a consequence for being crap."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/08/25/richard-cockerill-would-relish-edinburgh-playing-revived-british/

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

No certainty yet, hoewever the rumours are gathering momentum about the big four franchises.

I really hope they come to fruition, although I cannot see it happening without them being allowed to compete in Europe, and SA being in the 6N.

I am in two minds about it, maybe three or four.

What is world rugby going to look like in 20 years?

Are we going to see three main rugby “zones” playing club rugby and Six nations type tournaments? Americas, Greenwich, Pacific?

What happens to NZ and OZ if we align with European zone and the rest of the Pacific never really grows?

The reality is the European zone would then have just about everything they need, viewers, revenue, all the top rugby nations bar NZ and OZ. Is that a good thing for rugby as a whole?

I have always thought with NZ, SA and OZ aligned it brought balance to the world of rugby, if SA leaves that attempted balance is gone

RugbyFan100 wrote:Even the coaches of Union owned teams in the pro14 are calling for a British and Irish league now:

"I’d happily play in a British and Irish league and I’d happily have relegation because it would change the mindset of quite a few [Pro14] teams"

"Some players have never played in a league where there’s a consequence for being crap."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/08/25/richard-cockerill-would-relish-edinburgh-playing-revived-british/

They're talking about getting rid of relegation in the premiership.

profitius wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:Even the coaches of Union owned teams in the pro14 are calling for a British and Irish league now:

"I’d happily play in a British and Irish league and I’d happily have relegation because it would change the mindset of quite a few [Pro14] teams"

"Some players have never played in a league where there’s a consequence for being crap."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2020/08/25/richard-cockerill-would-relish-edinburgh-playing-revived-british/

They're talking about getting rid of relegation in the premiership.

"I’d happily play in a British and Irish league"

are all the words you need here.

Still the same issue. Why would english clubs agree to less money and less power.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Still the same issue. Why would english clubs agree to less money and less power.

They won't. They'll only agree if:

1) It's more money
2) BT Sport don't offer a renewed deal for the Gallagher Premiership or offer significantly less for a renewal.

LordDowlais wrote:


You do not like most of the news articles I put up on here because of where I get them from, and to be honest this is just dribs and drabs I have been reading on the net and other forums, but here you go:-

https://www.therugbypaper.co.uk/latest-news/37476/pro14-broadcaster-premier-sports-ditch-core-production-partner/

https://www.dai-sport.com/pro14-tv-deal-thrown-into-doubt-as-premier-sports-slash-costs/

https://media.sportbusiness.com/news/premier-sports-raises-questions-over-pro14-highlights/

There was an article on Wales online as well, and it was mentioning BBC. But I will let you find that yourself, as you get offended when I post links to their site on here.

Thank you for the links. I wonder where Dai Sport got their subscription numbers from, as I have never seen that figure mentioned by any other source and as their article acknowledges, Premier don't release them. If that's the case, then they definitely won't rebid. Premier's stance has always been they were happy with the figures, I thought. I would be surprised if that was the case, when they are 20k light in Wales alone   . It's also interesting to note on another Dai Sport Article that BBC were outbid when Premier took over the rights, as that was something you didn't believe before.

Furthermore, there's another article that may be of interest to you, concerning the coverage of the Welsh Premiership here or specifically these words within.

Dai Sport quote:

I would respectfully suggest "get offended" isn't the right choice of words for me on here   .

So a b&I league isnt going to happen.

RiscaGame wrote:BBC were outbid when Premier took over the rights

That wasn't the case though was it ? BBC were not outbid, in fact, they put a substantially bigger offer on the table which they did previously.

The sticking point was, that the Pro14 wanted to sell a package, for the whole league, BBC Wales just wanted the fixtures concerning the 4 Welsh regions, this is why it went to Premier Sport.

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

No certainty yet, hoewever the rumours are gathering momentum about the big four franchises.

I really hope they come to fruition, although I cannot see it happening without them being allowed to compete in Europe, and SA being in the 6N.

I am in two minds about it, maybe three or four.

What is world rugby going to look like in 20 years?

Are we going to see three main rugby “zones” playing club rugby and Six nations type tournaments? Americas, Greenwich, Pacific?

What happens to NZ and OZ if we align with European zone and the rest of the Pacific never really grows?

The reality is the European zone would then have just about everything they need, viewers, revenue, all the top rugby nations bar NZ and OZ. Is that a good thing for rugby as a whole?

I have always thought with NZ, SA and OZ aligned it brought balance to the world of rugby, if SA leaves that attempted balance is gone

Talk is, that South Africa are more or less bankrolling the other countries with their TV deals for the competitions in the SH, is that accurate ?

No 7&1/2 wrote:So a b&I league isnt going to happen.

Who knows. I'd say it's far more likely now than a few years back. Nobody within the game was talking about it a while ago - now we have key rugby figures in Ireland, Scotland and Wales saying it's the way forward. So let's hope it happens.

Let's hope not.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Let's hope not.

Which club do you support?

Don't support any club.

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

Old Man wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:After reading the news, Covid-19 has hit Premier Sports hard, also, they have not had the predicted subscribers in the UK, especially here in Wales. They needed so many subscribers to break even, but they had nowhere near the needed subscribers.

Also, they have cut loose their core partners for broadcasting in the UK, Sunset+Vine, so I do not know how that will effect coverage in the UK.

Also, BBC are sniffing around, and if as some of our South African members on here are telling us, if the big franchises join, then SKY and BT will be circling.

No certainty yet, hoewever the rumours are gathering momentum about the big four franchises.

I really hope they come to fruition, although I cannot see it happening without them being allowed to compete in Europe, and SA being in the 6N.

I am in two minds about it, maybe three or four.

What is world rugby going to look like in 20 years?

Are we going to see three main rugby “zones” playing club rugby and Six nations type tournaments? Americas, Greenwich, Pacific?

What happens to NZ and OZ if we align with European zone and the rest of the Pacific never really grows?

The reality is the European zone would then have just about everything they need, viewers, revenue, all the top rugby nations bar NZ and OZ. Is that a good thing for rugby as a whole?

I have always thought with NZ, SA and OZ aligned it brought balance to the world of rugby, if SA leaves that attempted balance is gone

Talk is, that South Africa are more or less bankrolling the other countries with their TV deals for the competitions in the SH, is that accurate ?

Used to yes, all income was split three ways. It has changed insofar as Supersport shifted the balance whereby currie cup recieved a bigger share so SARU benefitted from that as they don’t share currie cup revenue, however I am not sure how reveue is split since Argebpntina and Sunwolves joined

No 7&1/2 wrote:Don't support any club.

It all makes sense now.

Yup. It would mean that the european cup would disappear more english clubs would be under finiancial pressure. Likely loss of balance to the league as its doubtful a salary cap would be agreed to youd just have saracens bristol et al spend big. I dont think any rugby fan would truly like the outcome.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yup. It would mean that the european cup would disappear more english clubs would be under finiancial pressure. Likely loss of balance to the league as its doubtful a salary cap would be agreed to youd just have saracens bristol et al spend big. I dont think any rugby fan would truly like the outcome.

Nah, it's the only way forward. The European cup is an example of a competition where only some of the teams have a salary cap - so your point about that is moot.

It's clearly not the only way forward. You've already said it would only go ahead if the prem basically implodes. No salary cap would get saracens approval. At least they wouldnt have to cheat.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's clearly not the only way forward. You've already said it would only go ahead if the prem basically implodes. No salary cap would get saracens approval. At least they wouldnt have to cheat.

This is worth keeping in mind:

Premiership Rugby is facing a huge drop in the value of its broadcasting rights because it failed to agree a new deal with either BT Sport or Sky before the coronavirus crisis.

England’s top division had hoped to secure a bumper TV deal but industry sources believe Premiership Rugby will now struggle to get anything close to the £40million a year it receives from BT Sport.

AS part of the six-year deal which finishes at the end of next season, BT Sport had an exclusive negotiating period with the league but that has come and gone without the broadcaster renewing, according to The Times. Premiership Rugby’s chief executive, Darren Childs, has reportedly also held talks with Sky but failed to agree a deal.

Broadcasters had expected the rights sale to be completed before June but now that is set to be delayed until there is more certainty about the sport’s future direction after the pandemic. Premiership Rugby has declined to comment.

The private equity firm CVC Capital Partners bought 27 per cent of Premiership Rugby last year for £200m, believing that it would be able to secure more lucrative commercial and TV deals.

The coronavirus crisis is threatening financial disaster for some Premiership clubs, with at least one said to be in danger of going bust.

There is also likely to be a drop in the £25.5 million that the 12 clubs receive in central funding from the Rugby Football Union, which in future will be based on its revenue and also likely to be hit hard by the pandemic.

They have proposed an idea of having a dedicated rugby channel in the UK to boost revenues, but there's no way that only English prem will be on there. So at the end of next season, there'll be some decisions to be made. The South Africans are already out of the pro14, the travelling to Italy is in doubt - this puts the Pro14 in a precarious position.

If clubs really want to do what's best for all of them, then they will get together and form a British and Irish League, with a dedicated channel that is streamable via Amazon etc. CVC are key, as always and are likely to want to make this happen.

Sounds like another reason the b and I wont happen. Would need to be a big uplift in tv rights to cover the pro 14 teams and the loss of europe which would inevitably come.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sounds like another reason the b and I wont happen. Would need to be a big uplift in tv rights to cover the pro 14 teams and the loss of europe which would inevitably come.

Definitely. Won't happen if the money isn't there, but the English may be faced with a big question if the B&I League is worth much more than their current league.

Negotiations of a B&I league amongst the people who matter are at an advanced stage, so that's great news.

May well be worth more than the english league alone. Probably would be. Would need to be a lot bigger to cover the other losses though. That last line isnt true.

No 7&1/2 wrote:May well be worth more than the english league alone. Probably would be. Would need to be a lot bigger to cover the other losses though. That last line isnt true.

What's not true?

Your last line.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's clearly not the only way forward. You've already said it would only go ahead if the prem basically implodes. No salary cap would get saracens approval. At least they wouldnt have to cheat.

This is worth keeping in mind:

Premiership Rugby is facing a huge drop in the value of its broadcasting rights because it failed to agree a new deal with either BT Sport or Sky before the coronavirus crisis.

England’s top division had hoped to secure a bumper TV deal but industry sources believe Premiership Rugby will now struggle to get anything close to the £40million a year it receives from BT Sport.

AS part of the six-year deal which finishes at the end of next season, BT Sport had an exclusive negotiating period with the league but that has come and gone without the broadcaster renewing, according to The Times. Premiership Rugby’s chief executive, Darren Childs, has reportedly also held talks with Sky but failed to agree a deal.

Broadcasters had expected the rights sale to be completed before June but now that is set to be delayed until there is more certainty about the sport’s future direction after the pandemic. Premiership Rugby has declined to comment.

The private equity firm CVC Capital Partners bought 27 per cent of Premiership Rugby last year for £200m, believing that it would be able to secure more lucrative commercial and TV deals.  

The coronavirus crisis is threatening financial disaster for some Premiership clubs, with at least one said to be in danger of going bust.

There is also likely to be a drop in the £25.5 million that the 12 clubs receive in central funding from the Rugby Football Union, which in future will be based on its revenue and also likely to be hit hard by the pandemic.

They have proposed an idea of having a dedicated rugby channel in the UK to boost revenues, but there's no way that only English prem will be on there. So at the end of next season, there'll be some decisions to be made. The South Africans are already out of the pro14, the travelling to Italy is in doubt - this puts the Pro14 in a precarious position.

If clubs really want to do what's best for all of them, then they will get together and form a British and Irish League, with a dedicated channel that is streamable via Amazon etc. CVC are key, as always and are likely to want to make this happen.

Everyone is facing a drop. It still doesn't hide the fact that the English would have to share more of their money in a B&I league. So they would have to agree to subsidise the Welsh regions basically.


In reality they would want 2 leagues and the majority of the money going to the top league. That would likely mean the likes of Dragons, Cardiff, Ospreys playing in the 2nd division and they might not have as much money or fans as they do now.


The Heineken cup would finished and instead something smaller taken its place so there's money lost from that.


The Italians would probably be cut too which would make italy even more beatable. They have got their act together and are now getting results at u20 level and that will eventually impact their clubs and national side.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Your last line.

So a chairman of a team in the pro14 says that talks of a B& I league are proceeding well, but you claim he is lying?

profitius wrote:


Everyone is facing a drop. It still doesn't hide the fact that the English would have to share more of their money in a B&I league. So they would have to agree to subsidise the Welsh regions basically.

Why have you singled out the Welsh teams?

Lol. You and phil have been saying this for years. I'd give it up.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol. You and phil have been saying this for years. I'd give it up.

I would appreciate an answer - are you claiming that a chairman of a team is lying?

They could well be.

No 7&1/2 wrote:They could well be.

Gotcha. At least we know what type of poster you are now.