Ireland WC

First topic message reminder :

Bit early i know.
Will update squads etc once they are announced.
And add the fixtures when I get a spare 10 mins.

Will Addison has been called up to the training squad

bluestonevedder wrote:Dave Kilcoyne his tearing up trees at the moment!

Yeah he has been good all year in my view. One of Ireland's few players that came out of the 6 nations with an improved reputation. He has looked great and has done really well to leapfrog Jack McGrath.

Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

bluestonevedder wrote:Dave Kilcoyne his tearing up trees at the moment!

Yeah... I hope the hell he cools off and goes for a long ice bath now.  

I fear a little burn-out potential with some of these fired up, adrenalinised players who knew they needed to go the extra dollar to get on the plane.  Bundee is another.  Great to see... and in reality with Scotland next, another game to blunderbuss through if they get picked.  But Joe needs to be careful that their exploits are calculated rather than all out bull in a china shop stuff.

We'll need Kilcoyne's explosiveness to last as long as we hope to last.

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

Yeah you might be right. To be fair Aki and Henshaw work really well together. However, we are really lucky to have Farrell and Ringrose as back up centres, those guys are real talents.

Aki looks very sharp and Henshaw had a great game.

I've no issue with Ringrose starting at all, I think he is a class act but the fact we've seen him twice at 14 is significant I think in terms of what the 1st choice 23 is.

All of a sudden it is looking very competitive again, we have a real depth which we'll need if we can make the QF.

You need real depth as well as your refs if the last few games are anything to go by, because without them you ship 57 points.

Mikey, there was absolutely no need for this post.

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

You would select Aki ahead of Ringrose and Farrell?

Personally I would not have had Aki in the squad, would have had Addison ahead of him.

Really? Aki has been one of our better players in the last few games.

I've always said that what Ireland have always lacked is a selection of quality players in training that can mimic quality opposition in games.  ABs train against the ABs...thus why their instincts are so sharp.  They often obviously train against much better players than quite a few International sides put out to meet them in competition.
Ireland really are now benefitting habitually from genuine high class training and in-team competitiveness.  And Joe Schmidt's stubborn development strategies over the years are primarily responsible.  He wants genuine alternatives for everyone, not just to be safer with injuries but to remind all players that there really is someone ready to take your shirt if you dip.... and that player is probably there looking at you in training.

Joe begged fans to keep the faith after the 6N... he kinda heavily hinted that what we were seeing wasnt an accurate reflection of the team's ability.  He was basically always saying the WC was focus, both from him as coach but maybe even more importantly in the minds of the players.  

You can only do so much as a coach when player's minds themselves are fixated.  Schmidt has known that a dollop of our falling off in form is down to the mental picture many of our central players were forming about the WC - obsession.  In my book even Leinster's season was affected by player's minds elsewhere.  You can't coach that away.  You can't demand that the obsession is compartmentalised to some date in the future that is more suitable.  Once I heard Sexton muttering 'one more goal' at the end of last year, I knew everything else was going on the back burner.

Fate is fate.  Other teams have their dreams too.  Ireland might still end up with a disappointing campaign but I think they are primed to give the fight of their lives either way.  And it's kinda all we can ask if they do so.

eirebilly wrote:

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Earls has had a good year in my view and a good addition to the squad. I suspect that he might be covering the left wing in case Stockdale gets injured as there is no one else with experience playing there.

I agree and it fits my suspicion that Ringrose will be in the 23 shirt for the big games rather than Larmour or Conway, with Aki and Henshaw the starting centers.

Ringrose has played on the right wing a couple of times now, Earls can shift across to cover 11 and Robbie will cover fullback.

You would select Aki ahead of Ringrose and Farrell?

Personally I would not have had Aki in the squad, would have had Addison ahead of him.

I believe Schmidt will Billy, I'm good with any combination of Aki, Ringrose and Henshaw.

I think Farrell is still a bit behind the others and will likely start against Samoa or Russia.

Collapse2005 wrote:Really? Aki has been one of our better players in the last few games.

I agree, he looks in the best shape I've seen him in.

I would not say that Aki has been one of Irelands 'better' players.
He is simply a bosh merchant and his handling skills are poor to say the least in contact. I am not a stats man but I would say that he has lost the ball ore in contact than any other Irish player and he often isolates himself in attack leading to him being turned over.

mikey_dragon wrote:You need real depth as well as your refs if the last few games are anything to go by, because without them you ship 57 points.

So what?  57 points.  Let the English blow off steam.  Who cares?  3 wins from 4 played, at about 40% the form England and Wales were at (agreed by most neutral observers)

57 points.  Congrats England

For what it's worth... Aki and Kilcoyne as first choice. Beirne in the 23. POM not in the 23.

Interesting what Jamie Joseph did with the Japanese players playing for the Sunwolves. I read that when Joseph stood down from the Sunwolves job and took up the national coach role he also appointed himself coach of the Sunwolves B team the Wolfpack. In doing so he at various points of the season withdrew all the Japan qualified Sunwolves players and put them together into the Wolfpack side so that they would benefit for playing together throughout the year for much longer periods and he would be able to coach them much more.

As a result the Japanese side have effectively been training together all year round this year in an effort to make the quarter finals. Some move if it pays off. The flip side however, is that the Sunwolves have had a terrible season and are getting pulled from Super Rugby next year as a result and the Japanese players have only played in a B rate competition.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/sunwolves-biting-the-hand-that-no-longer-feeds-them-and-what-it-means-for-japans-rugby-world-cup/

Interesting, I think Japan will be real threat to both us and Scotland.

mikey_dragon wrote:You need real depth as well as your refs if the last few games are anything to go by, because without them you ship 57 points.

Mikey, there was absolutely no need for this post.

Still classy Mikey.

Dry your eyes.


Uncalled for CB

rodders wrote:Interesting, I think Japan will be real threat to both us and Scotland.

I wondered if that was plausable until I saw their performance v SA

rodders wrote:Interesting, I think Japan will be real threat to both us and Scotland.

Yes, it would be advisable to think so.  Let's hope Joe shares the caution.  I think he will.

But then, if you can't stop Japan (ranked 10th) but hope to be in a position to stop SA or NZ later down the line, then you probably are a side that was overvalued anyway.

Ireland have to believe they can push Japan back into their box.  I think they have the firepower to do so because I think they have the firepower on a good day to do it to SA, England or New Zealand.

I'm sure the Japanese will be thinking they can expose Ireland's defence out wide, stopping them achieving width will top the priority list but I simply cannot see Ireland being turned over by them. Scotland are obviously our main (probably only) threat in the group and Ireland cannot afford to go into the tournament with any semblance of jet-lag or any other generic excuses. That first game will be treated as a final, it could decide our chances of ever reaching one.

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm sure the Japanese will be thinking they can expose Ireland's defence out wide, stopping them achieving width will top the priority list but I simply cannot see Ireland being turned over by them. Scotland are obviously our main (probably only) threat in the group and Ireland cannot afford to go into the tournament with any semblance of jet-lag or any other generic excuses. That first game will be treated as a final, it could decide our chances of ever reaching one.

Yes agreed.

I wonder what backrow Schmidt will opt for v Scotland. Possibly Conan at 8, POM at 7 and Stander at 6?

I think the plan is to smash all our group opponents up front, especially at scrum time.

Our line out could be an achilles heel against Scotland though.

Oh I think we're going to be more subtle when the chips are down... and they kinda will be even in the pool stages.

Joe should by now realise that smashing folks and relying on big scrums for the duration will knacker the feck out of his own players as much as the opposition (cumulatively) + serious likelihood of attritional injuries.  And of course that's when the smart sides will run the legs of us in the play off rounds if we made it that far.

Ireland must score more tries with less energy.  It's the one thing everybody who has observed Ireland the last number of years admits.  If we are to progress, we must preserve as much energy in the squad as possible.  Creativity is a must to ease the stresses.

That's the big question.  Do we have it?  Do we have players to do it?  Will we me more deceptive and less predictable?  

Gats doesn't seem to have much faith that we will.  I think we will - because we simply have to.  It's the component missing from an otherwise formidable team.

rodders wrote:I think the plan is to smash all our group opponents up front, especially at scrum time.  

Our line out could be an achilles heel against Scotland though.

Yeah I reckon so, Japan's scrum looked pretty weak v SA.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Pete330v2 wrote:I'm sure the Japanese will be thinking they can expose Ireland's defence out wide, stopping them achieving width will top the priority list but I simply cannot see Ireland being turned over by them. Scotland are obviously our main (probably only) threat in the group and Ireland cannot afford to go into the tournament with any semblance of jet-lag or any other generic excuses. That first game will be treated as a final, it could decide our chances of ever reaching one.

Yes agreed.

I wonder what backrow Schmidt will opt for v Scotland. Possibly Conan at 8, POM at 7 and Stander at 6?

That would work, it's difficult to leave POM out of a 1stXV but Stander looked so good at 6, his physicality would be sorely missed against the Scots. Can POM do as good a job at 7 as VDF? Would a manic POM coming off the bench be a decent option or would we miss his on-field leadership?
I'm glad I'm not a coach!

So I reckon we need to beat SA, England and NZ in succession to win it?

Do you feel confident in your line out without POM? He's always effective there, taken England's apart a fair few times

Ireland are going to knock NZ out in the quarters

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland are going to knock NZ out in the quarters

Ireland v SA final?

rodders wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland are going to knock NZ out in the quarters

Ireland v SA final?

Maybe but I think anyone in the quarters could beat their opponent so who knows. I still think SA are bit of an unknown quantity. Not fully convinced by them yet.

rodders wrote:So I reckon we need to beat SA, England and NZ in succession to win it?

Really? That’s as tough as it gets then. Those three will definitely provide one, probably two, finalists.

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland are going to knock NZ out in the quarters

Big ask after losing to Scotland then.

That would make it even sweeter

There was a lot of talk in the lead up to this game about how cutting edge Wales' altitude training was and how much fitter they would be vs everyone else. Ireland by contrast used traditional methods like bin liners and warm weather training in Portugal which was lamented by some.

Funny because Ireland looked fitter and more physical to me on Saturday. The whole Gatland fitness propaganda mountain training is the greatest load of horse#@$%.

I think Ireland are climbing into form - we hope.  But I do think we've probably timed our preparations to begin making inroads later than perhaps our neighbours.  Thus why it's really only our last game that we resembled something of a team in the mood for a WC.

I do think Wales will fire up again harder and faster when the competition starts.

One thing nobody can say is that Gatland doesn't know how to prepare a side to be competitive.  He has his record and his medals and his Lions history.  He'll always present a team ready to at least fight hard and often scare.

I believe he'll do it again.

Collapse2005 wrote:There was a lot of talk in the lead up to this game about how cutting edge Wales' altitude training was and how much fitter they would be vs everyone else. Ireland by contrast used traditional methods like bin liners and warm weather training in Portugal which was lamented by some.

Funny because Ireland looked fitter and more physical to me on Saturday. The whole Gatland fitness propaganda mountain training is the greatest load of horse#@$%.

Maybe we haven’t peaked yet!

Boom! Boom!

I wouldnt be particularly worried if I was a Wales fan.

Collapse2005 wrote:I wouldnt be particularly worried if I was a Wales fan.

Oh I’m worried alright! Always worried with Wales. We can go from the sublime to the ridiculous in the drop of a hat. But I’m hoping the warm up games was ‘the ridiculous’ and we’ll have a bit of sublime in a few weeks!

The Oracle wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:I wouldnt be particularly worried if I was a Wales fan.

Oh I’m worried alright! Always worried with Wales. We can go from the sublime to the ridiculous in the drop of a hat. But I’m hoping the warm up games was ‘the ridiculous’ and we’ll have a bit of sublime in a few weeks!

Give over', Oracle. 57 points shipped to England then World Ranked 1 a few weeks later? THAT is monumental sublime to ridiculous stuff. Wales at least stick to playing rugby even when losing.

Collapse2005 wrote:There was a lot of talk in the lead up to this game about how cutting edge Wales' altitude training was and how much fitter they would be vs everyone else. Ireland by contrast used traditional methods like bin liners and warm weather training in Portugal which was lamented by some.

Funny because Ireland looked fitter and more physical to me on Saturday. The whole Gatland fitness propaganda mountain training is the greatest load of horse#@$%.

Fitness is more about duration over a period and peaking at the right time as well, and the advantage Gats has over Schmidt is he's taken winning  Lions tours over a similar duration as the World cup.

A friendly isnt going to be the measure of that fitness from a WCup perspective, though in saying that if the ABs arent the fittest side at the tournament then we are sunk because clearly we've gone for mobility, and that requires draining the opposition empty after 60 big time- even more so than ever before this time.

ABs wont win the RWC, someone will knock them out. Possibly Ireland or England.

Do you think that due to the hot and humid conditions in Japan, teams will kick more hopping for fumbles, gaining easy yards in oppo 22?

carpet baboon wrote:Do you think that due to the hot and humid conditions in Japan, teams will kick more hopping for fumbles, gaining easy yards in oppo 22?

Sure hope so, we're banking on it. Not sure about those easy yards though...

Collapse2005 wrote:ABs wont win the RWC, someone will knock them out. Possibly Ireland or England.

Thats what I love about this site, a well balanced, fact based argument with a solid conclusion. Well said

These are strange strange times.  Record them well, we might never see their like again.  

And in that vein, I find myself in rare total agreement with one Gerry Thornley, writing in the Irish times (sorry don't have the link, not familiar with this pad enough). -  but he has an article about Irish phoney war antics and his guesses that our conditioning background people aren't stupid, the squad have endured toughest training regime they're likely to have encountered (outside a Gats Lions sweatshop) and that at the end of the Welsh second game, they looked like they could play on comfortably.  That is to say - timing.  Peaking at the right time.

Anyway, I'm shocked to find myself thinking motormouth Thornley an astute journalist.... now back to the Brexit wonderland.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:ABs wont win the RWC, someone will knock them out. Possibly Ireland or England.

Thats what I love about this site, a well balanced, fact based argument with a solid conclusion. Well said

Is it even possible to provide fact and a solid conclusion about a future prediction?!

Collapse2005 wrote:There was a lot of talk in the lead up to this game about how cutting edge Wales' altitude training was and how much fitter they would be vs everyone else. Ireland by contrast used traditional methods like bin liners and warm weather training in Portugal which was lamented by some.

Funny because Ireland looked fitter and more physical to me on Saturday. The whole Gatland fitness propaganda mountain training is the greatest load of horse#@$%.

Yes I was one of the people saying it. I suppose I am wary given past failings around our RWC preparation and performances but it looks like we are on track this time.

I would be cautious about reading too much into the last couple of games I suspect Wales haven't peaked yet. That said from our side a lot of our players looked very sharp.

carpet baboon wrote:Do you think that due to the hot and humid conditions in Japan, teams will kick more hopping for fumbles, gaining easy yards in oppo 22?

I think that is what we are banking on with the selection. It looks like Schmidt is expecting more scrums and the lineout to be less crucial, hence Kleyn ahead of Toner.

I guess in humid air the ball won't travel as far either, so we may see more kicks along the turf?

Balls travel further on a humid day as the air is less dense. I expect the likes of SA and NZ to kick the leather off the ball if it is humid.

Hard to tell what it will be like though.