The Ashes - official thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as this starts next week, I'll kick it off - the Aussies have selected their 17 man squad


Australia's Ashes squad: Tim Paine (c), Cameron Bancroft, Pat Cummins, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner.

Main takeaway there is no specialist spinner selected behind Lyon, with Neser included suggests they don't anticipate many, if any, spinning wickets...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I would guess that Wood's chance is probably fading. Archer will be persevered with as the pace option even if he starts badly. Stone has come in, there are young bowlers on the up too, whilst they have three very good senior bowlers and Curran also there.

Only chance is if England do rest people in upcoming series and he is fit and firing

[Soul Requiem]

Good innings this from Burns, grafting away, he needs to carry on as he has and just accumulate, let the rest take risks.

[Duty281]

Great session for England. They've both had a huge slice of luck, but they're sticking in there and grinding it out. No real x-factor from the bowlers yet, just steady stuff.

Major concerns for England are they're not scoring particularly quickly and are susceptible to a sudden and brutal collapse; as well as the pitch is already starting to behave erratically which doesn't bode well for a fourth day chase of 175.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Good morning session for England that - Burns has done well, and Root is, well, still there. Somehow! But he is, and they have given themselves a decent platform to go on...whether they will or not is a different question.

Was very surprised Paine took Lyon off after his first 3 overs, and brought the seamers back. Lyon was causing a lot of issues, should have had a wicket, and was getting good turn. Seems since he's switched ends, he hasn't caused quite as many issues to me

[alfie]

71/1

First job done quite well. Wasn't easy. Burns has played rather well ; Root very scratchy, as he was against Ireland. Hopefully this time he will bat through it rather than throw his innings away out of frustration.

Slow scoring by England standards. But at least they've laid a bit of a platform.

[dummy_half]

At least no-one can complain this time that they aren't playing like a Test match. We've certainly had a bit of luck (although given Warner's not out in the first over yesterday, perhaps balancing things out), firstly Burns given not out when LBW would have been given on review, and then Root being not bowled.

Burns has at least done part 1 of his job - now has to continue and make an innings-defining score. Boycott has talked about this for years - as an opener you will sometimes get out tot he new ball, but when you see it off s when you've got to look to build a big innings.

Hopefully Root will be able to bat himself into form - was good early in the WC, but seemed to be tailing off later on (fortunately others, in particular Stokes, took up the slack). Must remember that run rate doesn't really matter - he'll get some easier scoring balls later on

[guildfordbat]

Absolutely, dummy.

Although Boycott too often says things in an annoying manner, his points are usually very valid.

The run rate is not an issue whatsoever. 5 days for this match and we've already moved things along by ending Australia's first innings in just under a day.

[Gooseberry]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

[Soul Requiem]

As far as opening the batting goes I do find Boycott interesting to listen to, nothing worse than naff players like Atherton and Hussain trying to talk technically when they don't have a clue.

[alfie]

Good fifty for Burns

Battling to survive against Lyon ; but so far... And he's put a couple of boundaries away so not totally dominated.

Hope he can go on this time.

[compelling and rich]

burns 50, very good knock under the circumstances

need these two to see off first half an hour after lunch. its all about how we play lyons then. not as many left handers in our team as in the past luckily

[Gooseberry]

The note in regard to rin rate ...in itself it doesnt matter but they still need to keep scoring and not miss good opportunities for low risk shots. The bowlers are getting enough that as per Roy sooner or later there will be a near unplayable ball that gooses someone.
Burns is ticking over fine, Root struggled to score initially but is settling in.....

Oh out?

[Soul Requiem]

Another umpiring mistake.

[Gooseberry]

Nope another edge TF but this proves my point, the bowlers are creating chances regardless of how batsmen play. They need to score consistently, not recklesly

[Duty281]

Much needed 50 for Burns, maybe buys him the rest of the summer as England's opener?

Another poor decision by Aleem Dar and Root uses DRS to rescue himself.

"Same old Aussies, always cheating," sing the English fans. Perhaps "you don't know what you're doing," directed at the umpires would be more appropriate?

[compelling and rich]

umpires at it again

[alfie]

DRS to the rescue again as Root inside edges Siddle onto his pad

Thin edge only ; but another bad call by the umpires... Five errors each I'm hearing.

Seems like more ...

[guildfordbat]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

A half-ton is good and to be applauded. However, it's important that he goes on. In the words of his Surrey boss Alec Stewart, ''Hundreds and big hundreds win you games, fifties don't.''

[compelling and rich]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

A half-ton is good and to be applauded. However, it's important that he goes on. In the words of his Surrey boss Alec Stewart, ''Hundreds and big hundreds win you games, fifties don't.''

not sure this is quite the case with these two batting line ups in English conditions. id quite happily take 50 each off the top six during this series. would put us on 300

[alfie]

Nope another edge TF but this proves my point, the bowlers are creating chances regardless of how batsmen play. They need to score consistently, not recklesly

True. In fairness I think Root was very conscious of the risk of exposing the middle order too early and really set out to graft against some good bowling. Perhaps he overdid it ; and he wasn't really comfortable. Looks as if he's getting more his busy self since lunch...

Burns is playing within his limitations. Siddle has been very accurate...not given them much at all. Unlike England yesterday , there have been no Stokes - type loose spells so far...

[Duty281]

Surprised no Pattinson or Cummins after the interval as of yet. Been quite defensive from the tourists since the resumption.

[guildfordbat]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

A half-ton is good and to be applauded. However, it's important that he goes on. In the words of his Surrey boss Alec Stewart, ''Hundreds and big hundreds win you games, fifties don't.''

not sure this is quite the case with these two batting line ups in English conditions. id quite happily take 50 each off the top six during this series. would put us on 300

Yeah, but there was a recognition from Stewart in what he said that some of the top six will fail and so the one getting to 50 needs to go on further to compensate and then take the initiative for his side. Boycs was making a similar point as posted by Dummy.

I accept this may be a lower scoring Ashes series than we're used to but that shouldn't curb the aim and ambition of a top order batman once he gets to 50.

[Duty281]

Proper frustration for the Aussies now. The edges are finding the green, green grass and the English are starting to score.

[CaledonianCraig]

Surprised no Pattinson or Cummins after the interval as of yet. Been quite defensive from the tourists since the resumption.

It is what comes with a three man pace attack. They need to be handled very carefully and not overworked.

[CaledonianCraig]

Century partnership up between Burns and Root. England 122 for 1. Burns 65 and Root 38.

[alfie]

Century partnership up between Burns and Root. England 122 for 1. Burns 65 and Root 38.

So seven wickets better off than Australia yesterday

Of course there was a little matter of two big stands for the last two wickets to follow...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Surprised no Pattinson or Cummins after the interval as of yet. Been quite defensive from the tourists since the resumption.

It is what comes with a three man pace attack. They need to be handled very carefully and not overworked.

One would assume England will have, at best, a three and a half man attack with Anderson.

[VTR]

So this is the position that the middle order are supposed to cash in on. Would be good to see as I can't ever recall that happening. We are usually not many for three and they rescue it, but there's been many occasions that a good amount of runs for only one or two down was followed by a collapse as the middle and lower order fail to apply themselves.

Not trying to spread negativity, just hoping for this being the time the batting unit functions as a whole

[guildfordbat]

Surprised no Pattinson or Cummins after the interval as of yet. Been quite defensive from the tourists since the resumption.

It is what comes with a three man pace attack. They need to be handled very carefully and not overworked.

Yeah, but that also applies to Siddle who bowled 6 on the reel after his bananas at lunch. Siddle's a war horse who will give it his all but he'll be 35 this year and so needs to be managed carefully too. Less options should usually mean greater rotation of the few bowlers available.

[Duty281]

So this is the position that the middle order are supposed to cash in on. Would be good to see as I can't ever recall that happening. We are usually not many for three and they rescue it, but there's been many occasions that a good amount of runs for only one or two down was followed by a collapse as the middle and lower order fail to apply themselves.

Not trying to spread negativity, just hoping for this being the time the batting unit functions as a whole

Maybe they'll get as lucky as these two currently in the middle. Lots of edges, none finding the fielders!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

So this is the position that the middle order are supposed to cash in on. Would be good to see as I can't ever recall that happening. We are usually not many for three and they rescue it, but there's been many occasions that a good amount of runs for only one or two down was followed by a collapse as the middle and lower order fail to apply themselves.

Not trying to spread negativity, just hoping for this being the time the batting unit functions as a whole

Maybe they'll get as lucky as these two currently in the middle. Lots of edges, none finding the fielders!

Quite a few falling short of the slips however...albeit that one from Root didn't - leapt off a length from Cummins! You'd have thought Paine would have closed the gap between gully and second slip by now anyways....

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Well, Root at three starts with a 50 and then smacks a ball into his own foot.

[alfie]

So this is the position that the middle order are supposed to cash in on. Would be good to see as I can't ever recall that happening. We are usually not many for three and they rescue it, but there's been many occasions that a good amount of runs for only one or two down was followed by a collapse as the middle and lower order fail to apply themselves.

Not trying to spread negativity, just hoping for this being the time the batting unit functions as a whole

Ha. That thought had occurred to me...noted a couple of times on the last tour of Australia when they'd seemed to be cruising only to lose the last six wickets in a rush...sometimes starting with a silly run out ! (Nearly did that just then ! Steady , lads )

Didn't collapse in Melbourne , mind. So I do think it's largely mental.

One thing that might be different today is that the middle order looks a bit better balanced ; with everyone in their preferred positions. Has been a lot of moving around lately , which hasn't helped anyone settle.

[VTR]

I agree, it is a mental thing. When the hard work has been done, it seems to me the middle order think it will be easy and try to play shots from ball one. Admittedly this is based on a very small sample of times that we weren't 30-3!

[alfie]

Siddle back in the attack...he really has been right on the money today and largely responsible for restraining the scoring rate.

And he's got Root ! Smart c&b ...

Big moment . Australia needed that.

Decent from Root today ; but not the big score he wanted. Testing spell coming up now...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Very big, that. A bit of a soft one and he’s clearly annoyed

[Gooseberry]

154/2...anyone wouldve been happy with that start of the day. Not a terrible mistake by Root to get out, but a big shame.

Really is Burns' chance to show his worth now. If he can anchor this to a good score in will genuinely establish him as a test batsman and hopefully allow him to relax more in future games. Hes given up a lot of chances, but hes still there like Smith was (albeit not with the same ability and pedigree!)

[guildfordbat]

Siddle back in the attack...he really has been right on the money today and largely responsible for restraining the scoring rate.

And he's got Root !  Smart c&b ...

Big moment .  Australia needed that.

Decent from Root today ; but not the big score he wanted.  Testing spell coming up now...

Alfie - you are on the money as well with that post. Totally agree all comments.

[guildfordbat]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

A half-ton is good and to be applauded. However, it's important that he goes on. In the words of his Surrey boss Alec Stewart, ''Hundreds and big hundreds win you games, fifties don't.''

not sure this is quite the case with these two batting line ups in English conditions. id quite happily take 50 each off the top six during this series. would put us on 300

Yeah, but there was a recognition from Stewart in what he said that some of the top six will fail and so the one getting to 50 needs to go on further to compensate and then take the initiative for his side. Boycs was making a similar point as posted by Dummy.

I accept this may be a lower scoring Ashes series than we're used to but that shouldn't curb the aim and ambition of a top order batman once he gets to 50.

Not too surprised that Athers is another in the Stewie camp. On Root's dismissal and whilst acknowledging he shouldn't become obsessive about scoring centuries , ''... equally, he'll know that 57 is not the kind of score that wins a test match.''

[Duty281]

Siddle's done his job perfectly. Controlled the England batsmen brilliantly and picked up a big bonus wicket.

[dummy_half]

Good chance for Denly to make runs as well - coming in with a decent start on the board, an old ball and the bowlers having had to work hard. A much better opportunity than coming in at 3-1 as has been the case in his first few matches.

[compelling and rich]

Rory not up to test cricket Burns ..50

A half-ton is good and to be applauded. However, it's important that he goes on. In the words of his Surrey boss Alec Stewart, ''Hundreds and big hundreds win you games, fifties don't.''

not sure this is quite the case with these two batting line ups in English conditions. id quite happily take 50 each off the top six during this series. would put us on 300

Yeah, but there was a recognition from Stewart in what he said that some of the top six will fail and so the one getting to 50 needs to go on further to compensate and then take the initiative for his side. Boycs was making a similar point as posted by Dummy.

I accept this may be a lower scoring Ashes series than we're used to but that shouldn't curb the aim and ambition of a top order batman once he gets to 50.

Not too surprised that Athers is another in the Stewie camp. On Root's dismissal and whilst acknowledging he shouldn't become obsessive about scoring centuries , ''... equally, he'll know that 57 is not the kind of score that wins a test match.''

for me root's done well today. of course every batsmen wants the bigs scores but today he was in when the ball was brand new. he took the threat of the new ball and made conditions much easier for the batters following. I know root has a habit of getting dismissed after 50 but playing in top 3 the above is a vital role, and something we have been terrible at recently.

not to mention tired a fairly small attack

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Root played solidly today it was like a Dravid style innings where he made the Aussies bowl to him. Risk free batting. I just don't get why Root's conversation rate isn't as good as Smith/Kohli/Williamson.

[alfie]

Yes , Denly didn't have the best of luck at Lord's ...was rather "done" by Root in the second innings. And as Athers mentioned , he batted on some difficult pitches in the Caribbean .
Chance at four today. He needs to take it for his own sake as well as the team as if Root is happy at three there would be a few other middle order candidates worth a look...

[Gooseberry]

Denlys looking unusually confident too! Good to see this pair both in the right frame of mind to play such a high pressure game. Slight whiff of confidence that our batting might just be OK over the series after all.

[CaledonianCraig]

England reach tea on 170 for 2. Another session they will be pleased with. Australia need a big last session.

[alfie]

Root played solidly today it was like a Dravid style innings where he made the Aussies bowl to him. Risk free batting. I just don't get why Root's conversation rate isn't as good as Smith/Kohli/Williamson.

Couple of factors , I think. One is the pitches he plays on at home : not quite so easy to go big when the bowlers are always in the game , as they've often been recently in England. Second he is a busy rather than super aggressive player when he starts ; but tends not to throttle back when he's settled in - and seems to get out by pushing perhaps more than he needs to in the middle stages...or what ought to be the middle stages of a big innings ! And finally I think the captaincy doesn't sit as easily on him as on some.

He's got a lot of career to go. I think - hope - he will improve the conversion rate before he's done.

[Gooseberry]

Yes , Denly didn't have the best of luck at Lord's ...was rather "done" by Root in the second innings.  And as Athers mentioned , he batted on some difficult pitches in the Caribbean .
Chance at four today.  He needs to take it for his own sake as well as the team as if Root is happy at three there would be a few other middle order candidates worth a look...

He is also a pretty ordinary batsman which a medicore county record, much of it division 2. So realistically hes never going to be Steve Smith ( although Smith didnt used to be Simth). For me its that he makes the most of his modest talents, and so far hes doing that.

I completely agree its an important game for him and his future, not that there really are other players knocking the door down but to me he was a fringe selection initally last september

[Duty281]

Another strong session for England. Now the test of whether they can convert this decent platform into a 50+ run lead, which is essential for their chances.

I'm pleased Burns has got a high score and is still there, but he's had the luck of the Gods so far.

[robbo277]

The top order has functioned today, led by Burns. We are 50 runs and 6 wickets better off than Australia at this stage and should be looking at a big session tonight and more tomorrow. Also means our bowlers will get a longer rest.

Good day for England so far, but emphasis on so far. England often collapse in a session and each batsman has to take personal responsibility to make sure they put a high price on their wickets.

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