The Ashes - official thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as this starts next week, I'll kick it off - the Aussies have selected their 17 man squad


Australia's Ashes squad: Tim Paine (c), Cameron Bancroft, Pat Cummins, Marcus Harris, Josh Hazlewood, Travis Head, Usman Khawaja, Marnus Labuschagne, Nathan Lyon, Mitchell Marsh, Michael Neser, James Pattinson, Peter Siddle, Steven Smith, Mitchell Starc, Matthew Wade, David Warner.

Main takeaway there is no specialist spinner selected behind Lyon, with Neser included suggests they don't anticipate many, if any, spinning wickets...

[alfie]

Fifty for Wade

The good side for England might be that he keeps his spot for Lord's...I'm still not entirely convinced by him ; though he's doing a good job for his team today.

[Duty281]

Mo vs Aussies, is he mentally capable? He looked shot down there, he looks shot here. He was poor in the World Cup; is there another player who so obviously loses his head?

I'd be dropping him. I don't think they'll drop Jonny, there's clearly a feeling in that setup that he's some top class batsman, but I don't trust him much. Maybe he can only bat when Jason Roy is talking him through it

Can't think of one currently, though Monty Panesar was always a player who could crumble very easily if his confidence deserted him. YJB will probably get another few tests at least.

[guildfordbat]

Another bad thing for England in this test is some other Aussie batsmen - Khawaja, Head, Wade - have got some valuable time in the middle and scored some runs, setting themselves up for the rest of the series.

Lead over 200 now. I think we can safely say: England aren't winning this one!

While Smith will deservedly get the headlines, each of those three have played a valuable hand.

[guildfordbat]

Hmm.  Woakes is alive then ?  First bowl for the day...after lunch !

Smith to 99...

I trust Root / the England management are probed tonight on why.

[guildfordbat]

https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/forecast/gcqdkqnss#?date=2019-08-05

Looks clear for tomorrow. Possible shower this afternoon, but even that's starting to look unlikely. If it comes to it, I expect Australia to declare early tomorrow after batting England firmly out of contention, and give themselves 80-85 overs to take out England, which should be enough.

Thanks for that, Duty.

[alfie]

Hmm.  Woakes is alive then ?  First bowl for the day...after lunch !

Smith to 99...

I trust Root / the England management are probed tonight on why.

Well if he wasn't unfit ...and he looked fairly normal when did bowl ... I can only assume they had massive (misplaced) faith in Moeen and thought to save Woakes to go after the tail when they had made inroads ? Nah , doesn't make sense to me even as I type it...

Weird.

Have to say Root is bowling quite well now. Underbowls himself I think. Though the way he's been threatening must be giving Lyon pleasant anticipation !

[alfie]

221 ahead.  Midnight here .  Think I've had enough . As Root messes up a simple run out

See you all tomorrow for the Heroic Rearguard

[Dolphin Ziggler]

This is horrible. I know they're a bowler short, but they have still been awful today

And Root has missed a run out chance there

[guildfordbat]

Interesting to note even Steve Waugh was being a bit cagey about declaring it Game Over at lunch.  As it looks increasingly unlikely the Australian innings is going to implode any time soon , the question of when they might declare must come into things... And if any weather is about that choice gets complicated.
I doubt they'd be leaving England anything remotely likely as a chase - just in case. So the draw might come back into consideration.

But England have a pretty poor recent record in defending for a draw. Think KP_fan is already counting his money

If Australia are going to win this test, they shouldn't need more than two and a half sessions to take 10 England wickets second dig with, as expected, Lyon leading the way. If he should bowl like Moeen a drain and/or we get after him, we'll almost certainly need longer than that to score the runs necessary to win. Why give us the time and possible opportunity?

Therefore, if I were Paine, I would be in no rush to declare assuming the opportunity does present itself later. Just maybe give Burns and Roy an awkward 10 minutes tonight allowing for the chance of weather tomorrow (I'm hearing a possible shower but nothing dramatic - Duty, you're the weather god, is that right?). However, my inclination would still be to bat into tomorrow if possible and keep Burns and Roy wondering when they will be padding up and allowing them as little time as possible to prepare. Certainly, unless the weather intervenes, do not declare overnight. Olly and the Surrey boys know that script.

I know that one too , guildford.  I think they'll go for the ten awkward minutes option  , myself. They're likely to be a long way ahead by then as England are almost reduced to going through the motions already...with a lot of day left.  Suppose no one ever got rich betting on the British weather ; but it sounds as they'll have a more or less full day tomorrow so as you say , no rush.

Need Burns to reprise his first innings and find a few mates...

Alfie - I very much hope so although I do worry that his century and all the concentration that went into it will have left him mentally and physically lower than usual if not drained. Add to that, he's been on the field of play all of days 1, 2 and so far 4 plus much of day 3. Before anyone says the same about Smith, I don't think that's a like for like comparison.

[No name Bertie]

Many criticise Root for being a poor captain. I am not sure if that criticism is correct? But then it still begs the question who would be better as England's captain.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Think we can call this one over I’m afraid - Anderson’s injury coupled with Moeen and Bairstow’s struggles just too much to overcome against Smith in this form.

A shame - something about Edgbaston and seamers. At least in 2005 McGrath’s injury came in time for the Aussies to replace him, england have essentially played all bar 10-20 overs of this game with 10 men

[guildfordbat]

After saying today was the crucial day in this test yesterday...I’m going to say tomorrow is!

England have a real opportunity here to bat themselves into a position of great strength in this game, if we can get ourselves into a lead of 100 plus tomorrow. Would be great if Bairstow can refind the test form of 2016 for one day...

Also, batting some time and a day has given Broad, Woakes and Anderson a day with their feet up, and legs resting. The longer we bat, the more time the physios have to work on Jimmy...every little may help.

Finally, if england can get that lead, and are all out for say 420 towards tea tomorrow it does bring the draw into the game. A bit of rain is forecast for Sunday/Monday, which may help take an Aussie win out of the equation if we can get a decent sized lead...I know we’d like a win, but considering we lost our best bowler a half hour into the game getting away with a draw wouldn’t be a dreadful result in my book

After saying today, and Friday was the crucial days of this test...turns out it’s tomorrow!

Missed today’s play due to playing (45 over game, we batted and got 255-5 off 45, they ended 246-8 - close one!) - what’s the general consensus? England do ok? Game in the balance?

Yeah, Olly, I reckon you got it right last night that today is the crucial day. After a long wait, Carlos also gets his much loved moving day.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Moeen's so called 'wicket taking ability' is no more than a myth. He gets wickets because batsmen have no respect for his dreadful bowling and more often only gets wickets when batsmen are desperate to slog him as they can't score against the seamers.

[compelling and rich]

Not been on here for couple of days so may be going over old ground but how awful has Ali been in this test match.

On a turning pitch he hasn’t even been able to tie a end down and build pressure let alone be a threat. A Swann in this team we’d have won even with smith being unbeatable.

Lyon will cause major problems in our second innings, this game has gone

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Yeah, it's gone.

I suspect there'll only be one change, Jof in, but I'd like two more.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Wade given out, reviewed almost before the finger came up

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Got to be high

Edit: Just a little...

[Duty281]

Ah, the umpire was feeling sympathetic, which was nice of him. Got some life and intensity back with the new ball...but the lead is an unassailable 240.

[Duty281]

Not been on here for couple of days so may be going over old ground but how awful has Ali been in this test match.

On a turning pitch he hasn’t even been able to tie a end down and build pressure let alone be a threat. A Swann in this team we’d have won even with smith being unbeatable.

Lyon will cause major problems in our second innings, this game has gone

Even Ashley Giles would have done alright on this!

[Dolphin Ziggler]

SMITH IS GONE

[guildfordbat]

Got to be high

Edit: Just a little...

By comparison, the umpires make England's bowling seem almost adequate.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

SMITH IS GONE

THE TRUEST SIGN OF THE DANGERS OF GLOBAL WARMING

[Duty281]

My goodness.

Stupendous test match from Smith. 286 runs.

England might just get the worst of all worlds now and end up bowling Australia out tonight for a 300-ish lead.

[guildfordbat]

Not been on here for couple of days so may be going over old ground but how awful has Ali been in this test match.

On a turning pitch he hasn’t even been able to tie a end down and build pressure let alone be a threat. A Swann in this team we’d have won even with smith being unbeatable.

Lyon will cause major problems in our second innings, this game has gone

Hi Compelling - I thought maybe you had gone off to put Alec Stewart right.

I like Moeen and normally reckon I'm pretty supportive of him but he's been very poor so far in this game.

I think you actualy overstate what we required in referring to Swann who is amongst England's greatest ever slow bowlers, if not the very best. Just needed a Leach, maybe even a Bess.

[Duty281]

125/1 in that session, blasting along at over 4RPO. Pundits talking about England getting Smith out as a 'massive wicket' but, in reality, he was captured about four hours too late for it to be meaningful.

Likely we'll see England start the rearguard tonight, but it's a team without Atherton or Collingwood or Cook-esque defensive nous.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Root and Denly currently more reliable than Mo.

[CaledonianCraig]

This Test match firmly in the grip of Australia now. Perhaps a saving grace for England is the pitch. It really is not offering much at all.

Anyway the selectors have decisions to make. For me the two obvious ones are Archer in for Anderson and Leach in for Ali.

[VTR]

No way England grind out a draw here. To be fair, I can't think of any current team that would. Its a lost art

[No name Bertie]

Now that Australia have made this test safe for them - this seems like the push to go for the win - scoring quickly.

[Duty281]

No way England grind out a draw here. To be fair, I can't think of any current team that would. Its a lost art

Wasn't too long ago that Roston Chase got 8 wickets against England without spinning the ball. Difficult to comprehend the damage Lyon is going to do on this track!

[Duty281]

Magnificent shot from Wade to bring up his ton. Unlike the first dig, Smith's stupendous effort has been backed up his teammates.

Pundits speculating that it's a dead pitch, but it'll be plenty lively when a rejuvenated and rested Australian attack are having a proper go at a beleaguered and demoralised English line-up.

[KP_fan]

With the fear of defeat evaporating....Aus will bat more freely...there is hardly anything in the english attack...hard new ball might bring even more runs.
Aus will declare with about 6 to 10 overs today and lead of 350 runs

Aus going even faster than I expected.....they may be up by 360 runs by the time they declare tonight
Au's Nos 3,4,5,6 and 7 all got useful runs in the middle and confidence.
Wade  smashing exactly the type of 100 he was reortedly in form in First class and A games...and might go on to get career highest score here.
Win was already in the bag for Aus...now they are trampling Eng's confidence....for the rest of series.

terrible team selection from England......for once their weaker deptt. batting cannot be blamed ....for they got almost 400ish in first inning
their stronger trait...bowling has let them down thru largely  bad selections

[VTR]

That Chase 8 for, oh my days. Still wondering if that or the Holder double hundred was the worst part of that series!

[No name Bertie]

Australia could finish the first test with their confidence sky high - for the rest of the Ashes series. And they are doing this despite the failure of their two opening batsmen in both innings.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

terrible team selection from England......for once their weaker deptt. batting cannot be blamed ....for they got almost 400ish in first inning
their stronger trait...bowling has let them down thru largely  bad selections

This is what many would call hindsight, and others would call after-timing. Anderson passed a fitness test, it's home conditions, who doesn't pick him? Mo is the contentious one, but his record at home in tests has been good so...

[KP_fan]

Wade's been playing in FC cricket the type of innings that Gilchrist used to play and we have seen sometimes Butler also play........coming at No.6 and smashing a hundred to completely crush the morale of opposition

Wade might end up scoring 15% of his career runs in today's single inning and this for a man playing ~40th test inning

[Dolphin Ziggler]

And Wade is gone.

KP_fan, can you give me mini analyses for each of the next batsmen coming in

[KP_fan]

terrible team selection from England......for once their weaker deptt. batting cannot be blamed ....for they got almost 400ish in first inning
their stronger trait...bowling has let them down thru largely  bad selections

This is what many would call hindsight, and others would call after-timing. Anderson passed a fitness test, it's home conditions, who doesn't pick him? Mo is the contentious one, but his record at home in tests has been good so...

I have seen Eng play 6 and often times 7 bowlers...because many of their bowlers can bat.
This was the case where Eng played only 5 ....two of who were batsmen-all-rounders

and off the 3 specialist bowlers was one who almost did not play because of injury surely needed cover....and Eng have cover in the form of bowlers who can bat

Dropping Leach after he showed he could hold the bat usefully.......is also not hindsight but mistake

This is like India's opening test of 2011 series in Eng when zaheer passed fitness on a hamstring that broke in first sesssion ....India had no cover for the 3 man seam attack and they went down white washed in that series

[KP_fan]

And Wade is gone.

KP_fan, can you give me mini analyses for each of the next batsmen coming in

you should be requesting me to spare the analyis lest the next guy I analyse  also gets his career high
Pattinson highest is 42 and Paine's 92 only

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Ali gets Paine. Sadly, you feel in the situation that it won't give him a lot of confidence. If they show him it later, it's a great delivery.

Sadly, it's also a sign of what Lyon is gonna do to this game

[Duty281]

This is the time when England have to avoid taking wickets! Keep Australia batting for as long as possible.

[Soul Requiem]

Foakes, Leach and Archer have to come in next game, the former two should have played this game. On a spinning pitch you cannot make do with a wicketkeeper who's mediocre standing up to the spinners.

[KP_fan]

Foakes, Leach and Archer have to come in next game, the former two should have played this game. On a spinning pitch you cannot make do with a wicketkeeper who's mediocre standing up to the spinners.

I would suggest Curran for Denly and Leach for Anderson....Bairstow is a fine lower middle order batsman and if his keeping is not OK....put Butler behind stumps.

that would make a balanced attack..

[Soul Requiem]

Bairstow performed well for about a year and has been poor for a while now, if you're picking two spinners as you suggest then you need your best keeper playing.

[Duty281]

Looks like another umpiring error, though England have burned their reviews.

Australia should declare now - get an hour at England tonight.

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm not sure Curran is a better choice than Denly. Who goes in at 4? Moving everyone down when they are struggling already.

Archer has to play, we need the different approach and question in the next.

Question right now would be who to drop if Anderson is fit (for the third, most likely)? I'd almost trust Woakes's batting enough to be better than YJB or Denly. Can Denly and Root not just do for spin and we give up

[KP_fan]

Bairstow performed well for about a year and has been poor for a while now, if you're picking two spinners as you suggest then you need your best keeper playing.

Well I think Bairstow is OK as a WK as is Butler....But I won't get into that debate...for Foakes is also a fine batsman as a WK.

To me Eng's strengths in test matches have been and are:

1-6 or 7 bowlers playing in the 11 and so they have a wide variety compared to sides like Aus and Ind that go with barely 4 bowlers
2-That Eng's bowlers can all bat with the exception of Anderson whihc allows them to play so many bowlers / allrounders.

Eng should not deviate from their strengths too muhc

[KP_fan]

I'm not sure Curran is a better choice than Denly. Who goes in at 4?

Moeen Ali

[Duty281]

I'm not sure Curran is a better choice than Denly. Who goes in at 4?

Moeen Ali

Four ducks in his last eight innings and master of the head-high lob, Moeen Ali?

[Dolphin Ziggler]

I'm not sure Curran is a better choice than Denly. Who goes in at 4?

Moeen Ali

That's a bold strategy, Cotton. I think I'd rather Denly's batting and his spin than Mo right now

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