The Ashes - official thread

[Gooseberry]

First topic message reminder :

SR that's not how mental fatigue works.
Also Stokes had a long break last year ...which he came back from err ...mentaly fatigued. Buttler and Bairstow haven't had that luxury.

But anyway it's not a case of "attitude" , ask Trott and Trescothick.

[guildfordbat]

Only been watching since 2 o'clock. Enjoyed Cummins' battle with Roy - one good clever bowler full of pace up against one less skillful but mightily gutsy batsman.

I've also now read through all your posts today. Very pleased by your comments about the umpires - ie nothing said at all. I did express the hope in the last test that Chris Gaffaney would bring some order to the proceedings - still a long way to go but pleased the talk so far is about the play and the players.

Meanwhile, Siddle doing what Siddle does and England struggling at 142/6 ....

Hi guildford

Think you meant Cummins v Burns    Roy didn't fire a shot , I'm afraid.

I have really warmed to Burns.  He had a fair slice of luck today. But he's - at the moment ! - top score again for England ; and he really puts a value on his wicket...

Hi Alfie - Oops! More evidence for Goose of my Surrey bias. Yes, Burns is really battling hard not to give his wicket away.

England scorecard makes disappointing reading. So many getting a start with 9 of the top 10 in double figures but so few going on.

[Duty281]

Archer roaring in at 90MPH+ under lights at Lord's.

Possibly the loudest atmosphere I've ever heard at the usually subdued old ground.

[Duty281]

Broad gets Warner...again. Three times out of three. Both openers do look horribly out of touch.

If England can squeeze another wicket, they might get to have a go at Smith in the gloom and under lights.

[compelling and rich]

that 4th ball I thought was out, I celebrated it and was confused when no one went up

doesn't matter now

[Duty281]

that 4th ball I thought was out, I celebrated it and was confused when no one went up

doesn't matter now

Yeah, I thought so as well. Loud noise and a resulting spike on Ultraedge. Baffled as to why no one appealed.

[JDizzle]

Jofra taking it both ways at nearly 90mph... Tasty. Just a touch wide.

[Duty281]

Archer a little too short and a little too wide in his opening four overs. Didn't make the batsmen play enough for my liking.

What a lift it would be for Australia if these two can survive until stumps.

[Duty281]

And they do survive. 30/1 at stumps. I think Australia will be very pleased with that - the new ball effectively seen off for the loss of just one, and a good platform to build upon for tomorrow.

Australia clear favourites from here, even with some more rain forecast tomorrow.

[king_carlos]

England will be disappointed not to have got to Smith before close but getting Warner early is a huge blow.

It's a lively pitch and shaping up to be a good match. Lords can often flatten out on day two and three but the late start and rain around will hopefully keep the ball swinging.

I've often been a critic of Root's captaincy but I really liked his juggling of Archer and Broad at the Pavilion End. Giving Broad the wind for the opening burst then getting Archer with the wind behind him for the close. Astute use of conditions.

[Gooseberry]

I was surprised to see them break up the Woakes broad partnership which has been unreal in home tests first up, archer or not.
Kind of agree with Duty it's all too easy to leave him if he's not bowling stump height. As flashy as it is to move the ball at that pace it's enabled the a couple of vulnerable batsmen to get their eye in a bit and protected Smith.

Not quite as pessimistic as some about England's chances still, rain may still keep a draw on the table and Smith aside Australias batting line up is every bit as suspect as England's if you take Smith out of the equation, and Paine Cummins at 7 8 is hardly Bairstow Woakes.

It's a pity none of the Aussie bowlers are 38 and straight back from a calf tear mind

[Gooseberry]

On the weather front it's looking like we will lose the last session tomorrow. Should be plenty of swing about into the afternoon with the older ball which has often been a duff period for England's bowlers at Lord's.
If Aus survive two sessions at least they can come back with frssh bowlers and not wait long for a new ball on saturday and still have a draw on the table despite being up against it.
Overall though disappointing again from England. I guess we can't win every home ashes and its quite a change that it's now considered a big deal that Aus are odds on to nick one against the head.
The real dissapointment is that it seems to be getting surrendered meekly without the opposition being that good

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Think Leach might have a bigger role tomorrow - pitch was already turning for Lyon today, so should spin more as the game goes on. Unless it’s hooping round corners early tomorrow I’d get him on fairly early

[KP_fan]

-It was a win toss, bat first wicket. Normally it would be  a mistake to put Opposition in.
Eng blew away an opportunity to get a grip on the game by falling 80 runs short of par.....and 150 short of a gettable BIG first inning total

--The Pitch had some help with new ball, nibble all day and spin appeared only late in second session, but neither uneven nor exploding off the pitch yet. Wasn't  an exceptional seaming pitch or conditions, unlike D1 of T1.

Eng's main batsman Root is still in ODI mode standing legsidish of the ball ...trying to hit on the rise...instead of get behind the line of ball...and hence always susceptible to falling lBW or bowled to one that comes in.
Roy on the contrary is overwhelmed by wanting to bat like a test match instead of playing naturally like Sehwag.
Eng's lower order is not wagging as much as it has in the past.
Only Burns walks away with some credits...

--Aus on the other hand put Eng in like the stronger ( or more confident ) side would do to try and turn a shorted game into a 3 or 3 and a half inning & make up for time.

Aus are working on the scenario to get a lead of 100 odd....and then bowl out eng for 200 to220ish on D3 when ball should be turning...leaving  about 100 runs chase.....turning this inot a 3.5 inning...and so far they are on track.
If smith gets a big one than the Aussie lead could be much bigger.

-Eng made the mistake of not giving the new ball to Woakes....who is after Anderson the best man to exploit news ball and extract conventional swing/ seam with fuller lengths IMO...and has a tremendous record at Lords.
Giving the new ball to Archer is disrespectful to the proven seniority of Woakes and shows Eng is chasing the mythical magic-bullet in Archer.

Archer was predictably half a yard short...and a bit wide i.e the ODI lengths where batsman go after the bowling but here in tests they can happily shoulder arms.

Nevertheless Eng should be able to fight harder as they have all fit seamers and a presumably a better spinner. They need some more rain

[compelling and rich]

Think Leach might have a bigger role tomorrow - pitch was already turning for Lyon today, so should spin more as the game goes on. Unless it’s hooping round corners early tomorrow I’d get him on fairly early

Ive thought in the past after watching lyon only for our spinners to be rubbish. he really does get very good turn

[No name Bertie]

Is Buttler still frazzled and Jason Roy seems to lack patience and control - he can't seem to resist prodding at balls he should leave well alone. Roy, Root, Buttler and Stokes well under par.

[alfie]

Well only seen the scorecard of the thirteen overs - but my immediate thought : Why the devil didn't Woakes take the new ball ???? Good to see Warner gone early at least.

Game still wide open , surely ? Early wicket or two and anything can happen. Smith obviously looms large but England need to do what Australia did - bowl good line and lengths and stay patient. Big second day if the weather allows...

[compelling and rich]

Well only seen the scorecard of the thirteen overs - but my immediate thought : Why the devil didn't Woakes take the new ball ????  Good to see Warner gone early at least.

Game still wide open , surely ? Early wicket or two and anything can happen. Smith obviously looms large but England need to do what Australia did - bowl good line and lengths and stay patient.  Big second day if the weather allows...

archer was wasteful with it aswell. wide and short didn't test the batsman nearly enough. still early in his career though, but bowling delivery that are dots isn't everything in test matches

[Soul Requiem]

Well only seen the scorecard of the thirteen overs - but my immediate thought : Why the devil didn't Woakes take the new ball ????  Good to see Warner gone early at least.

Game still wide open , surely ? Early wicket or two and anything can happen. Smith obviously looms large but England need to do what Australia did - bowl good line and lengths and stay patient.  Big second day if the weather allows...

The management of the team is awful at the moment; Broad and Woakes to rip out the top order should have been the plan then you use Archers pace to go after the middle order.

[eirebilly]

I echo others in thinking it was better for Woakes and Broad to start the bowling but at the same time the Aussies would have expected that as well so it could have been a tactic to throw them off slightly.


Archer was not very accurate with the new ball but it is first test match so I would cut him some slack, he did have raw pace and got the ball to move a lot so I think as the ball gets older, he could play an important role in 4-5 over bursts.

Rotation of the bowlers will be key today for me.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Well only seen the scorecard of the thirteen overs - but my immediate thought : Why the devil didn't Woakes take the new ball ????  Good to see Warner gone early at least.

Game still wide open , surely ? Early wicket or two and anything can happen. Smith obviously looms large but England need to do what Australia did - bowl good line and lengths and stay patient.  Big second day if the weather allows...

Was also surprised re: Woakes not taking the new ball, especially when on comms Atherton said Archer prefers the Pavilion End (but was opening from the media centre end, which is Woakes's preferred end!). Archer got the ball to move, but line was slightly off, sure it'll come today. Hope they don't use him as a short ball battering ram too often though, was some signs they were wanting too last night imo.

[Soul Requiem]

This is where Root fails as a captain, he just does not know how to use new bowlers, it's easy when it comes to guys like Anderson and Broad you just let them do there thing but there's a tendency again to try and be clever with anyone a bit different. Archer is not a bang it in short kind of bowler, he's a kiss the surface type who should be bowling a good line and length, leave the short ball barrage to Stokes.

[LondonTiger]

The weather forecast suggests not much play after lunch.

[eirebilly]

This is where Root fails as a captain, he just does not know how to use new bowlers, it's easy when it comes to guys like Anderson and Broad you just let them do there thing but there's a tendency again to try and be clever with anyone a bit different. Archer is not a bang it in short kind of bowler, he's a kiss the surface type who should be bowling a good line and length, leave the short ball barrage to Stokes.

I actually thought that Root managed new bowlers well yesterday. The only complaint I would have was the possible directions being given to Archer for banging it in.

[Gooseberry]

Then again Aus did pretty well with the short stuff so hey . Again though I guess that comes down to so many of our batsmen struggling for discipline, yet you see someone who like to leave (Burns) out scoring most of those who want to hit the wide stuff.

Still fair odds on a draw though with the weather if England can stop Aus scoring quickly. They need to be winning matches of course so I'm praying for a miracle bowling performance and Smith not to get going...but the chances of even that being enough are looking remote.

Overall I don't think there's a real gulf between these side but Aus have collectively played closer to their potential than England have in the series so far. The weaknesses in both sides have been exposed at times all the same.

[Soul Requiem]

This is where Root fails as a captain, he just does not know how to use new bowlers, it's easy when it comes to guys like Anderson and Broad you just let them do there thing but there's a tendency again to try and be clever with anyone a bit different. Archer is not a bang it in short kind of bowler, he's a kiss the surface type who should be bowling a good line and length, leave the short ball barrage to Stokes.

I actually thought that Root managed new bowlers well yesterday. The only complaint I would have was the possible directions being given to Archer for banging it in.

So he managed one half of the new ball pair well and resorted to a tired old approach with the actual new bowler?

[Duty281]

The weather forecast suggests not much play after lunch.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/gb/st-johns-wood/nw8-9/minute-weather-forecast/709827

Most of the rain might just miss Lord's if we're lucky. Delayed start looking likely.

[eirebilly]

This is where Root fails as a captain, he just does not know how to use new bowlers, it's easy when it comes to guys like Anderson and Broad you just let them do there thing but there's a tendency again to try and be clever with anyone a bit different. Archer is not a bang it in short kind of bowler, he's a kiss the surface type who should be bowling a good line and length, leave the short ball barrage to Stokes.

I actually thought that Root managed new bowlers well yesterday. The only complaint I would have was the possible directions being given to Archer for banging it in.

So he managed one half of the new ball pair well and resorted to a tired old approach with the actual new bowler?

As I said earlier, I would also have started with Broad and Woakes but maybe Root was trying to surprise and unsettle the Aussies a bit. I thought the changes he made were spot on though. I also think that Archer may have performed better if he were to stick to his normal bowling and not the bang it in stuff, that was my only complaint.

[robbo277]

I would have opened with Broad and Woakes and held Archer back. Woakes is a senior bowler now, he bowled out Ireland on this pitch opening the bowling and he's got a great Lords record.

[No name Bertie]

I echo others in thinking it was better for Woakes and Broad to start the bowling but at the same time the Aussies would have expected that as well so it could have been a tactic to throw them off slightly...

Bit in bold: using that argument they could have opened the bowling with Root and Denly.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Strauss making a good point re: Buttler and his lack of form on Sky - last summer when he came into the side, he was being proactive, a lot of walking at the bowler getting them to bowl into his areas - all dismissals this series he's been stuck on the crease.

Something to keep an eye on

[jimbohammers]

Any reason we're not starting at 10/10.30 today? Lost a whole day to rain Wednesday, 5 overs short yesterday and more rain expected today. Ridiculous

[LondonTiger]

Any reason we're not starting at 10/10.30 today? Lost a whole day to rain Wednesday, 5 overs short yesterday and more rain expected today. Ridiculous

Playing conditions do not allow for an early start. I think the start/end times are now standardised in tests globally hence why we see them marching off in bright sunshine come 6:30.

[Duty281]

If we can get 30 overs or more in today, I'd consider that a success in terms of helping to get a result out of this match. The weekend looks absolutely clear.

[alfie]

I echo others in thinking it was better for Woakes and Broad to start the bowling but at the same time the Aussies would have expected that as well so it could have been a tactic to throw them off slightly...

Bit in bold: using that argument they could have opened the bowling with Root and Denly.

I'm not sure I'd buy the "unexpected" argument .... Sometimes think England overdo "trying to be clever"instead of just getting the basics right.
Woakes is a proven new ball danger man especially in these conditions. Would have been logical to use him and expect it to work , no ?
Perhaps there were concerns he wasn't on top of his game after the bang on the head. Or maybe the Archer hype train has scrambled their brains...

Anyway it's Broad and Archer again this morning and they haven't got their lines right in the first overs. Need to be attacking that off stump while the ball is up to moving. Really want an early scalp here.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Does seem weird that Woakes has only been given 2 overs, ball is now nearing 20 overs old - feels a missed opportunity.

[compelling and rich]

ball not doing as much as I thought it would this morning. suppose we would see better if someone like Anderson was bowling.

[Duty281]

Woakes being under bowled and not for the first time this series!

Really seems like a wasted start from England this morning.

[compelling and rich]

Woakes being under bowled and not for the first time this series!

Really seems like a wasted start from England this morning.

id swap wasted to a really poor start. Australia hit 50 without even having to do much. only 200 behind now, couldn't afford it with only 258 on the board

[No name Bertie]

I echo others in thinking it was better for Woakes and Broad to start the bowling but at the same time the Aussies would have expected that as well so it could have been a tactic to throw them off slightly...

Bit in bold: using that argument they could have opened the bowling with Root and Denly.

I'm not sure I'd buy the "unexpected" argument .... Sometimes think England overdo "trying to be clever"instead of  just getting the basics right.
Woakes is a proven new ball danger man especially in these conditions. Would have been logical to use him and expect it to work , no ?
Perhaps there were concerns he wasn't on top of his game after the bang on the head.  Or maybe the Archer hype train has scrambled their brains...

Anyway it's Broad and Archer again this morning and they haven't got their lines right in the first overs. Need to be attacking that off stump while the ball is up to moving.  Really want an early scalp here.

In men's singles tennis Pete Sampras talked about the mano a mano aspect of the sport - repeated individual battles against opponents.  Winning, as well as involving skill and strength, also involved the mental battle between individuals - if you got inside someone's head you could beat them fairly easily in later matches against them.

Something similar is likely to occur between individual bowlers and batsmen.  You build competitive relationships.  So it is not just about the "unexpected" but about developing a knowledge of your opponent, their weaknesses, their ideosyncrasies  etc.  This argument rules against the try something different approach in using Archer rather than Woakes to open the bowling (when Woakes was already winning the battle with individual batsmen).

[Duty281]

Archer has his first test wicket. Hopefully it'll settle him down because he hasn't bowled well this morning. Thought it was not out on first viewing, but no matter.

Now time to resume the main battle - Steve Smith v England.

[compelling and rich]

close that one, when I saw where it hit the pads would have thought it was going over

[Pal Joey]

close that one, when I saw where it hit the pads would have thought it was going over

Me too. Just.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Yeah I think Bancroft can count himself a little unlucky there - looked high to me on first viewing

[Duty281]

No doubt about this one, Woakes on the money. The game turns sharply in five minutes, as this beautiful sport so often does. Shame the rain's starting to fall as England have the momentum.

[compelling and rich]

Woakes being under bowled and not for the first time this series!

Really seems like a wasted start from England this morning.

id swap wasted to a really poor start. Australia hit 50 without even having to do much. only 200 behind now, couldn't afford it with only 258 on the board  

how quick it can change, very good bowling performance this morning

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Sir Christopher of Woakes, king of Lords, doing bits.

[alfie]

Good couple of overs

Archer got his length right at last and gained the narrow umpires call margin to put Bancroft out of his misery ...and Woakes produced a beauty to do for the apparently set Khawaja.
In fact Woakes looked far the most dangerous as soon as he came on ...beggars belief he was held back so long. At least he's fresh to have a go at Smith ...

Big moments now with Smith and Head both new at the crease

[Steffan]

Crikey. Well this batting innings did not start well. Be a good week for England at this rate. Beat the Aussies in cricket and Wales at rugby twice in one week

[compelling and rich]

archer over the wicket gave head nightmares first over, not sure why they have switched straight away

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Good couple of overs

Archer got his length right at last and gained the narrow umpires call margin to put Bancroft out of his misery ...and Woakes produced a beauty to do for the apparently set Khawaja.
In fact Woakes looked far the most dangerous as soon as he came on ...beggars belief he was held back so long.  At least he's fresh to have a go at Smith ...

Big moments now with Smith and Head both new at the crease

Think they'll have to take advantage soon, the rain is looming large any moment now...

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