The Ashes - official thread

[Gooseberry]

First topic message reminder :

SR that's not how mental fatigue works.
Also Stokes had a long break last year ...which he came back from err ...mentaly fatigued. Buttler and Bairstow haven't had that luxury.

But anyway it's not a case of "attitude" , ask Trott and Trescothick.

[KP_fan]

England actually bowl to a plan which works. Another frustrating outing for Paine - getting a start but not kicking on.

One end open for England now...

I think Cummins is a better bat than Paine.....technically very correct.
One end can be deemed open only when Hazelwood arrives

[Duty281]

Archer generating serious pace. About 93-94. Swiftly followed by an absolutely terrible DRS review.

[compelling and rich]

well that's one way of trying to win the ashes. really nasty that one. hope he's ok but just injured enough to miss rest of the series

[Duty281]

Vicious spell of bowling from Archer, hitting speeds of up to 96.1MPH. Smith getting clattered, first on the forearm and then on the head, and unfortunately has to go off.

[KP_fan]

yeah he is so much better a bowler with the old ball .
Smith it seems was hit on the unprotected part of the neck

[Duty281]

Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him, and then laughing with Buttler while Smith was on the floor getting treatment.

Playing hard is fine, but there should always be a level of sportsmanship.

Speaking of Archer, he's getting over-bowled now and getting steadily more erratic. Australia edging towards favourites, I think.

[Gooseberry]

Has Mooen ever bowled 10 overs for 16 or less runs

[Duty281]

Absolute peach from the under-bowled Woakes to remove Siddle.

Smith coming out to bat again. Tremendous courage.

[Soul Requiem]

Oh well that's some karma, Root is such a terrible captain, has no plan but to bowl someone into the ground.

[Duty281]

Gone now for 92. Clearly scrambled by previous events. Pivotal point in the game now - England need to wrap these two wickets up briskly. Another 30-40 runs could be crucial.

[compelling and rich]

well we can do it before 100, clearly still a bit scrabbled from the early hit. didn't look right

[No name Bertie]

Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...

Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

[Duty281]

Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...

Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

Bowling bouncers is fine. Not checking on your opponent after hitting them is not.

[No name Bertie]

Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...

Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

Bowling bouncers is fine. Not checking on your opponent after hitting them is not.

As a bowler there was nothing he could have done - but it did look sickening - something for the medics. Ultimately Archer has to answer for it and it is certain he will get an awful lot of abuse from it.

[Gooseberry]

Only one team has Warner in it. Ask him about breaking arms. And sportsmanship.

Then come back and talk about Archer.

[Duty281]

Broad finishes with 4/65 - excellent start to the series from him.

England need to bat 60-70+ overs to draw this game. They mustn't be stonewall negative, like Adelaide 2006!

[KP_fan]

140 overs left in the game.....a result is a possibility and would make for an interesting game if Eng gets bowled out for 180 odd in 70 overs

[Duty281]

Australia need a minimum of four wickets tonight to plant themselves in pole position. Should be about 32 overs in the two and a half hours this evening. Big innings for Jason Roy.

[alfie]

Well that was an interesting session , eh ? I watched it all , quite enthralled , but had stopped posting because it seemed I had only Duty to talk to I see a few more back on now !

Really was an aggressive spell from Archer ...consistently fast , and he clearly rattled Smith in more ways than one ...fortunately he doesn't seem to have suffered series head damage. Thoughts of Phil Hughes were springing to mind when he went down !

Hope England are learning now how and when to use Archer ...and when to use Woakes ! The latter with a new ball. Joffra is arguably more dangerous with an older one by what we've seen.

No lead either way. Normally you'd say advantage England with the Aussies batting last. But given limited time left and nature of the pitch I guess the nerves will be in the home dressing room at the moment. Really should be able to bat long enough to be safe ; but as they don't really have time to set a target and bowl Australia out they may be a little indecisive in their approach - which would play into Lyon's hands...

Roy gone

[Duty281]

Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

[alfie]

Bloody hell ! Root first ball...

That's why he shouldn't bat three. But Bayliss and Smith just won't learn until it's way too late...

[alfie]

Duplication

[VTR]

Looking like 2-0 coming our way. Somehow need to set 150 and hope Bob Willis steps out of a time machine. Not sure which of those is less likely tlat this point

[alfie]

Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

I don't think they should move Roy to four. I think they should tell him to concentrate on the ODI game and pick someone better suited to Tests. But let us see if any other batsmen are left standing after this match...

[Duty281]

Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

I don't think they should move Roy to four.  I think they should tell him to concentrate on the ODI game and pick someone better suited to Tests. But let us see if any other batsmen are left standing after this match...

Well, yes, I'm far from convinced with him in the test arena, but England will likely stick with him for the duration of this series and, if they must, move him to 4 and give him half a chance.

[No name Bertie]

The difference in the two sides is the batting of Steve Smith, and the lack of batting from Jason Roy and Joe Root.

[alfie]

But why , Duty ? Picking him was a hunch , based on his white ball form. The idea was presumably that he might attack the bowlers early , put them on the back foot... That hasn't looked remotely likely.

His red ball record is not spectacular. So why try to find a place for him at the cost of continuing to expose Root in the dangerous spot at three ? Honestly I'd almost rather see Ballance back ! Or Vince.

Truth is the Top Three Problem looms as large as ever. But I think I've seen enough to say Roy won't solve it. And while this series remains in any way alive they need to look for someone who can...

[Soul Requiem]

Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

[Duty281]

But why , Duty ?  Picking him was a hunch , based on his white ball form.  The idea was presumably that he might attack the bowlers early , put them on the back foot... That hasn't looked remotely likely.

His red ball record is not spectacular. So why try to find a place for him at the cost of continuing to expose Root in the dangerous spot at three ? Honestly I'd almost rather see Ballance back !  Or Vince.

Truth is the Top Three Problem looms as large as ever.  But I think I've seen enough to say Roy won't solve it.  And while this series remains in any way alive they need to look for someone who can...

True, but if the selectors bin Roy after three tests, it won't look good for them. And they'll want to give him a proper chance, a fair crack of the whip as it were. I don't think Roy is the answer either, as opener or at 4, but it is what it is.

[alfie]

I hear what you're saying , Duty. But I haven't much time for this " not looking good for the selectors" thing. Losing 5-0 won't look good for them either !
OK , even this game isn't gone yet ; but things don't look good. And sometimes you have to have the courage to make a decision. I don't know if there is a man out there who can solve the top order issues ; but if they don't try Sibley , or someone else , now : what good will it do to move after the Ashes are lost ?

If Root were to stay at three (well I think he'd be nuts to do so , but...) then I'd have though Northeast , or Pope , or Hildreth ,to mention but three , would have better credentials ?

Ah well I don't like picking teams in the middle of a match and guess I should stick to that policy. I just get annoyed when they insist on all these "funky" moves instead of sticking to the basic system of putting players in their normal positions ...

Back to the match : poor Siddle must have shot an albatross ! Warner drops another catch off him...

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

Smith no different to Atherton or Trescothick

[Duty281]

Really should have reviewed that. Looked good in real time and was certainly no worse than umpire's call. DRS says three reds.

Astonishing that Australia haven't got the third wicket yet. That shout, a drop, Burns skies one. Living dangerously, but also scoring. The lead going to 50.

[alfie]

Paine has got a lot right in this match ...but not his choice of when to review ! Couple of bad calls first innings . And inexplicably not calling one then...
Surely at worst it would have been umpires call ? Lucky for Burns.

[Gooseberry]

Moving him to 4 isn't quite the same as dropping him outright. It's one thing to not bin someone after a couple of tests where they've been cuffed up by the new ball. But Roy has never looked comfortable out there, or even managed to make a battling score whilst looking uncomfortable. He's just getting out quickly and cheaply.
Denly was picked as an opener. If he can't play in the top 3 he shouldn't be there it's that simple.
There's 3 players initially picked as top 3 bats in this side. Plus Sibley available who is by far the best performing opener in CC this season.

How you end up with Root at 3 and feel stuck to persisting with it for the whole Ashes I'm not sure.

The top 4 as is a disaster zone. There's lots of options and most of them don't have Roy Root as 2 3

[Pr4wn]

Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

I'm sure you'd hold the same opinion if Smith was the England captain?

[Soul Requiem]

Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

Smith no different to Atherton or Trescothick

I for one cheered Donald in their battle.

[Duty281]

Siddle gets another tame caught+bowled. Overdue wicket for the Australians and another poor show by Denly. Still an hour left tonight...

[alfie]

Denly has done his usual thing...nice bright little 25/30 and gone...Siddle makes sure at least he can catch them himself off his bowling!

Denly ... Vince2.

Be a good time for Jos to regain some form...

[alfie]

Oh. Actually it's Stokes coming in at five. Cue Lyon back on , no doubt...

[Duty281]

Stokes now batting at 5, not Jos! I think Lyon's salivating at the prospect of two lefties to bowl at.

Not to overstate, but Lyon could have dismissed Stokes four times in that over!

[alfie]

And Stokes all at sea against the spinner...

Lucky boundary past slip...and now dropped ! Why he's been thrown to the Lyons this early I'm not sure ...though I guess he's going to face the same problems whenever he comes in.

Burns gone and England are sinking fast...

[No name Bertie]

In the first innings Denly lasted 67 balls for 30 runs, in the second innings Denly lasted 51 balls for 26 runs. So at least he is getting a score and helping to see off the new ball.

[Duty281]

What a bowling unit this is. Fabulous from Siddle, bit of extra bounce, Burns gone.

England in a world of trouble.

[No name Bertie]

Buttler - I wonder how long he will last.

[Duty281]

Buttler - I wonder how long he will last.

Judging by his first innings effort, I'll be surprised if he lasts until stumps.

[alfie]

A pity after a fighting effort with the ball. But this batting display is really disappointing. Good bowling yes ; but this is going to open up all the old debates over batting orders ...calls for Sam Curran to come in and bat at five , etc

I hardly dare watch but can't turn in for fear I will wake to find them all out for 99 ...

Suppose they are further ahead already than they needed to be in the Ireland Test But the Australian batting order looks a little stronger than the Irish ...

[alfie]

In the first innings Denly lasted 67 balls for 30 runs, in the second innings Denly lasted 51 balls for 26 runs.  So at least he is getting a score and helping to see off the new ball.

Well that is true. And the reason he should be at three not Joe Root , I'd have thought. But the England brains trust thinks they have a better plan , apparently...

[Duty281]

Oh my, another three reds review chance missed by Australia. Much more muted appeal for that one, initially.

England are four down, but it could have been so much worse with dropped catches and missed LBWs. Just shows how terrible this batting display has been.

[alfie]

What a bowling unit this is. Fabulous from Siddle, bit of extra bounce, Burns gone.

England in a world of trouble.

Siddle has been rejuvenated this year...Not many people in Australia would have had him in the squad , let alone the XI , a few months back.
I am a bit of a fan of his , but I didn't expect him to do this well.

Lyon misses another lbw ...failing to review , would have been out ! Shouldn't matter : he looks like striking any time now.

Should Stokes just go full 1981 Botham and try to land a few sixes ? Suddenly seems to be plenty in the pitch for all the bowlers so can't see run making getting much easier later on... But not sure Leach will be able wreck Australia on the last day even if it does turn square...

[Duty281]

For now, I'd just like Buttler and Stokes to survive this last 25 minutes and get through to Sunday. Re-assess then.

180 might be defendable, but England's bowling packs less of a punch than Australia's. And a lot could depend on if Smith is able to bat (think he can) tomorrow.

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