The Ashes - official thread

[KP_fan]

First topic message reminder :

Cummins was out no doubt about that, not sure what he was complaining about to be honest, a clear noise and deviation off the bat.

why were there 2 deviations?
one clearly before the ball had passed the bat and nothing seemed to be touching anything then...and the second when ball passes the bat.
Both deviations looking similar...put a question mark over the correct functioning of Snicko

that said 3rd umpire could have done nothing different than upholding the onfield ump

[AlciG]

Stokes needs to really start attacking

[Duty281]

Broad lasts two balls before being defeated by a good yorker. Nearly done.

[alfie]

Has been a fine effort from Ben Stokes. I do think he might have been better advised to go into overdrive while he still had Archer for company...but you can see why he didn't. The old risk v reward choice ; but the odds were that none of these bowlers were going to hang around too long.
In these chases of 320 plus you tend to either get the runs for four or five down or not at all.

Has been a brave chase but fifty or sixty too many to get. That wretched first innings just left too much to do.

[Duty281]

Reverse switch hit into the stands. Shot of the series.

That 60-odd that Australia added yesterday morning really was costly, wasn't it?

[alfie]

Astonishing reverse six off Lyon ! Gets the lead under fifty...

He's had a fine couple of days (after a poor first innings spell and a daft get out shot) ; and I think he's raised his stature as a Test player this series.

They will probably make him captain and wreck his form now

[alfie]

Reverse switch hit into the stands. Shot of the series.

That 60-odd that Australia added yesterday morning really was costly, wasn't it?

Well 49 less would have been nice

But in truth they were always likely to get something like that from their overnight position. At one time I feared it would be close to 400 - would have been but for Stokes and his late spell on Friday evening.

[Duty281]

Not like Sri Lanka 2012 now. More like Trent Bridge 2013 or Edgbaston 2005!

England still 36 adrift and Stokes seizing up badly.

[alfie]

Under forty now... Lot closer than I thought they'd get. Stokes has played an extraordinary hand here. Hope he gets his hundred at least...

There's the hundred

[Soul Requiem]

Win or most likely lose, Ben Stokes take a bow, this has been sensational.

[Duty281]

Century for Stokes. Superhuman effort, like in the World Cup final. Though this one is still likely to be in vain.

[alfie]

[GSC]

f*cking hell

stokes fancy a crack at Brexit?

[owen10ozzy]

Wow!! Just simply wow!

If we somehow win the ashes from here then give that man a knighthood!

[alfie]

38 years ago I saw a miracle on this same ground ...didn't expect to see another one like that !

Series alive now or what ?

[guildfordbat]

Dancing on the banks of the Amazon!

[owen10ozzy]

I'll put it out their now

No changes for the next test.....definitely should but that will sway them to keep it the same sadly! And if that's the case then shame on the selectors for taking easy way out after victory!

[owen10ozzy]

We should also state ....Stokes rightly takes the plaudits! But well done to Englands bowlers whose incredible work kept it possible if not very very unlikely!

[Soul Requiem]

Wow just wow, that should not have been possible, follows up a superhuman effort with the ball with a once in a lifetime innings.

[Duty281]

What unbelievable sport. One of the best innings I've ever seen. One of the greatest comebacks. One for the ages. Bradman, Botham, Willis, Butcher, Stokes. What a list.

Fate was on England's side. Harris dropped one like Simon Jones. Lyon spilled the easiest run-out chance since Donald didn't run. I don't quite know how the umpire didn't give the clearest of LBW calls against Stokes, or even why Australia burned their review on a total no-hoper of a chance against Leach.

Paine got his captaincy completely wrong at the end - gifting Stokes easy singles on the fifth ball and not being able to establish sustained pressure on Leach. Stokes was simply super-human.

What a game. Best sport in the world. This is why.

[alfie]

And a word for the Ciderman...Jack Leach kept his nerve and got the tieing single...

He might not be a superstar spinner but he has guts

[Dolphin Ziggler]

WHAT A MAN
WHAT AN INNINGS
BIG BAD SIR BEN
SIR JACK OF LEACH
SIR REVIEW OF PAINE
SIR BUTTER OF FINGERS

[sirfredperry]

Well! Astonishing. One of the great Ashes innings. I never ever thought England could possibly get 359.

[Duty281]

That’s a ludicrous catch by Warner

Would be tempted to give him MOTM based on his slip catching alone!

I have now changed my mind and would like Ben Stokes to be given the MOTM award.

[alfie]

Fitting in a way that the rotten umpiring eventually was a significant factor in the dying stages ...
Australia only having themselves to blame for burning their reviews in mild panic

Still I hope we can have some proper umpires for the last two games ...a couple from my local competition would be happy to fly over I think : they're actually South Africans so should be allowed

[88Chris05]

Extraordinary innings from Stokes. Up there with Lara's 153* in 1999 and Laxman's 281 in 2001 for my money in terms of test innings in my lifetime. Maybe doesn't quite top Lara's knock, but it's in the same breath. Phenomenal test match. Incredible team comeback and they all played an important role, but for now it's all about Stokes - and deservedly so.

[LondonTiger]

Well bugger me silly.

[kemet]

Congratulations to England on an amazing win. I have to temper my comments with the fact that Joel Wilson has to be one of the worst (if not the worst) international umpires.

[alfie]

And quite seriously , from a "neutral" point of view : this series deserves to be live going to the fourth match.

Two flawed teams ; but they both have character in their ranks . And they've given us some interesting contests that have all swung one way and the other .

Still no idea how it will all end ?

[owen10ozzy]

Extraordinary innings from Stokes. Up there with Lara's 153* in 1999 and Laxman's 281 in 2001 for my money in terms of test innings in my lifetime. Maybe doesn't quite top Lara's knock, but it's in the same breath. Phenomenal test match. Incredible team comeback and they all played an important role, but for now it's all about Stokes - and deservedly so.

Well yeah..I suppose the cheap batting from about 6 of them throughout added to the excitement

[sirfredperry]

England's highest successful fourth-innings run chase. There'll be some interesting comparisons made with the great Test innings.
  The Lara 153 and the same score by Kusal Perera for SL earlier this year are comparatively-recent brilliant efforts.
  Botham's 149 at Leeds in 1981 can be considered too, as can Mark Butcher's Headingley innings in 2001. Going back a bit there were two Stan McCable efforts in the 1930's including a 232 at Trent Bridge.

What about Jessop at the Oval in 1902 when Hirst and Rhodes "got 'em in singles" for a one-wicket win. Was that the last time England won by one wicket in an Ashes match?*

  I'm so knocked out by this win today that I can't think of any others, although I'm sure there are plenty more sensational efforts.

*There was a one-wicket win at Melbourne in 07-08 when Eng got 39 for the 10th wicket

[Gooseberry]

Attempting to understand this after being on the beach all afternoon and taking a lot of acid. Not entirely sure which bits of the highlights are real

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Imagine not liking this complete nonsense of a sport

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Attempting to understand this after being on the beach all afternoon and taking a lot of acid. Not entirely sure which bits of the highlights are real

Today has been a wild day, but this only adds to it. This is my favourite cricket post ever

[robbo277]

Never in doubt.

[Duty281]

Congratulations to England on an amazing win. I have to temper my comments with the fact that Joel Wilson has to be one of the worst (if not the worst) international umpires.

Yeah, Australia were robbed of a deserved victory, just like at Edgbaston '05.

They should still win the series, though. Smith's return will be integral.

[Soul Requiem]

Let's not act like it's the only poor decision in the series so far.

[lostinwales]

I wonder who man of the match was?

[VTR]

Can't actually believe that. Lost phone reception (and all hope) after checking the score just after Leach came in. Home an hour later and Stokes has won it. Incredible performance

[No name Bertie]

I would like to flag up Jack Leach - he came to Englands rescue against Ireland:
Ireland test: Match Won
1st Innings: 8 balls faced for one run - not out.
2nd Innings: 162 balls faced for 92 runs - out (night watchman).

Ashes Second Test:  Match Drawn
1st innings: 9 balls faced for 6 runs - not out
2nd innings: not called upon to bat.

Ashes Third Test:  Match Won
1st innings: 7 balls faced for one run - out
2nd innings: 17 balls faced for one run - not out.  

In the third test - Leach scored the run that leveled the scores and then Stokes scored the run to win it.  Leach came in with England on 286-9 and then lasted an hour - with the score ending on 362 - 9 - an unbeaten last wicket partnership of 76 runs.

Also well done to Jofra Archer for lasting 33 balls and contributing 15 to the second innings score in support of Ben Stokes.

I guess this test match will go down in history as the Ben Stokes Test.  It is worth mentioning that Ben Stokes scored an unbeaten 115 in the second innings of the second test which was drawn, while here in the third test - he won it for England with an unbeaten 135.

[VTR]

67ao and winning and 85ao and winning are both in the top ten lowest totals in any innings for a team that went on to win. A lot of the others were in the 19th century, and those two are barely a month apart!

[sirfredperry]

Must be something about Headingley. You'd need to be very old to remember Bradman's heroics on the ground.

But more recently the Leeds' crowds have witnessed Botham's 149 in 1981, Gooch's magnificent 154 in 1991, Butcher's 173 in 2001 and now....Stokes.

There have also been some fair old successful run chases at Leeds, too. Aus got 404 in 1948, England got more than 300 in the 2001 Butcher match and Windies chased down more than 300 just recently.

After this and the World Cup Final, who needs The Hundred, eh?

[CaledonianCraig]

Phenomenal match at Headingley.

Stokes innings earning plenty of plaudits with many ranking it as one of the best test innings they had seen. The strengths of it was how it was compiled. He sat in and was patient early doors and very watchful. When the wickets began falling he gradually upped the tempo and exploded with a torrent of sixes and fours. He also did a great job of protecting the tail-ender at the other end. All of this with the Ashes hanging by a thread. That takes some doing it really does.

England will feel on top of the world just now but they need to work on their batting as that 67 in the first innings was just as awful as the run chase was great. They need to use that run chase as a batting template.

[sirfredperry]

Ironic that England had chances to win both the first two Tests and in this one they really seemed to have no chance right until the end!

Can't help thinking back to 1981 when England really should have been 2-0 up after Headingley but within a few weeks were 3-1 up and the Ashes secured.

England may have been second best to Australia over much of the last 40 years but have had the better of the close matches.

18-run win at Leeds and a 29-run win at Manchester in 1981; three-run victory at Melbourne in 82-3; 12-run win at Melbourne in 1998-99; the two-run thriller at Birmingham in 05 and now this.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

And quite seriously , from a "neutral" point of view : this series deserves to be live going to the fourth match.  

Two flawed teams ; but they both have character in their ranks . And they've given us some interesting contests that have all swung one way and the other .

Still no idea how it will all end ?

Definitely worth the late night for that one Alfie - hope you can enjoy rubbing it in for a week or two!

I think ultimately so far in this series two superhuman performances have won a test each, Smith at Edgbaston and Stokes here. Otherwise the teams are evenly matched in being relatively rubbish at batting and very good at bowling! Of course Smith’s return next game could be a big factor, but let’s not forget a Mr J Anderson could be back for England...at his home ground...

Basically I can’t call it!

[VTR]

Have no idea where this is going either, but for the sake of today let's have 3-1 to England and then that win really would be immortalised

[sirfredperry]

Very rare to get the highest score of the match to win in the fourth innings. England's last innings today was the highest by more than 100 runs.

Doubt if that's been done very often in Tests.

[robbo277]

A lot of credit to Root and Denly in that innings. Stokes superhuman effort aside, they came together at 15-2 and showed a great deal of discipline and application and really showed the way for what went after them.

Archer's first innings heroics shouldn't be forgotten, neither should what Stokes did with the ball in the second innings. Broad bowled nicely, Woakes and Leach didn't contribute all that much with the ball.

Roy got a bit of a jaffer in the first innings and it will be interesting to see what happens with him. Foakes is another who's being called for after Bairstow's performance behind the stumps, but we could even see Foakes for Buttler and Bairstow as a specialist bat.

Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised if England were unchanged, Anderson's fitness permitting.

[Duty281]

I think Roy and Buttler could be for the axe. Woakes could possibly come out for Curran (or Anderson!), seeing as how Root doesn't seem to like Woakes. Denly's 50 has probably brought him a reprieve. Leach appears to be doing more with the bat than the ball this summer, but it's not as if Rashid or Ali or anyone else is particularly pressing him for the spinners berth. Archer might need a rest at some point, considering how keen Root is to bowl him into the ground.

Still a huge uphill task for England to win this series, especially with Smith coming back and the in-form Labuschagne now in the XI. I just hope we see plenty of cricket as the September season is often immersed with rain and bad light.

Looking back on today, I think Australia got it horribly wrong for the Stokes/Leach partnership. They persisted in bowling short to Leach, rather than fast/full/straight, and they didn't bowl negatively enough to Stokes. They bowled to him like it was an ODI. Why not sling a few well down the leg side and have him guessing? But most baffling of all was Paine's refusal not to bring the field up when Stokes got to ball five of an over, meaning the easiest of singles for Stokes and Australia only having one isolated ball at Leach per over. And I still can't fathom how Lyon butchered the run-out chance, which would have won the game by one whole run!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

I think Roy and Buttler could be for the axe. Woakes could possibly come out for Curran (or Anderson!), seeing as how Root doesn't seem to like Woakes. Denly's 50 has probably brought him a reprieve. Leach appears to be doing more with the bat than the ball this summer, but it's not as if Rashid or Ali or anyone else is particularly pressing him for the spinners berth. Archer might need a rest at some point, considering how keen Root is to bowl him into the ground.

Still a huge uphill task for England to win this series, especially with Smith coming back and the in-form Labuschagne now in the XI. I just hope we see plenty of cricket as the September season is often immersed with rain and bad light.

Looking back on today, I think Australia got it horribly wrong for the Stokes/Leach partnership. They persisted in bowling short to Leach, rather than fast/full/straight, and they didn't bowl negatively enough to Stokes. They bowled to him like it was an ODI. Why not sling a few well down the leg side and have him guessing? But most baffling of all was Paine's refusal not to bring the field up when Stokes got to ball five of an over, meaning the easiest of singles for Stokes and Australia only having one isolated ball at Leach per over. And I still can't fathom how Lyon butchered the run-out chance, which would have won the game by one whole run!

My take on the team for next test - we will have plenty of time to debate with some actual time between these tests...and it might be good to let today settle a bit more, but anyways for me there are two certainties.

1. Roy cannot open at Manchester
2. Anderson if fit, comes in for Woakes.

Then you have some debates on the following;

1. Does Roy get a go at 4, and Denly/Sibley opens?
2. Does Buttler need a rest, and as such do you bring in Foakes at 7 to keep, or add in Pope to bat at 5/6 and Bairstow keeps the gloves?
3. Do you bring in Pope at 4, drop Roy and have Denly open?
4. Do you drop both Roy and Denly, and bring in Sibley and Pope?

I'll post more thoughts on the last 4 Qs, as it is certainly a complicated state of affairs for the selectors...and requires a bit more thinking. But for me the top 2 are set in stone, Roy cannot walk out to open at Old Trafford (doesn't mean he can't play) and if Jimmy comes through his 2nd XI game (his second one, so more than Archer played) he comes in for Woakes.

[KP_fan]

Well there are few miracle innings in cricket....& you'd consider yourself lucky if you see once in a life-time.....and we have seen two from Stokes within a couple of months.


The Lankans pulled off a similar 4th inning chase vs SA last year...I didn't get to see it...but this one was probably bigger.

The enormity of Stokes feat is hard to capture in a few words....and so I won't attempt it.
But in Stokes we might be seeing one of the greatest match winners of all time in material chases.

Aus....well they can do little...and just stand back and applaud.
Just like the last half hour of world cup final...all the luck-gods & goddesses started smiling on Stokes to add to his brilliant effort....and many lucky breaks went his way.
And I would have felt sad had Stokes finished on the losing side in the last 2 overs.

An all time classic...BUT let Stokes Superman effort not mask Aus is still the superior side.

The one problem Aus hope they get over is Lyon's form,.....when he doesn't take wicket even in 3rd and 4th innings....Aus struggle.

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