The Ashes - official thread

[KP_fan]

First topic message reminder :

Cummins was out no doubt about that, not sure what he was complaining about to be honest, a clear noise and deviation off the bat.

why were there 2 deviations?
one clearly before the ball had passed the bat and nothing seemed to be touching anything then...and the second when ball passes the bat.
Both deviations looking similar...put a question mark over the correct functioning of Snicko

that said 3rd umpire could have done nothing different than upholding the onfield ump

[alfie]

And Leach delivers !  Wade chances his arm and gone...224/5

One end open ?

Possibly. The issue we have is how well Smith batted with the tail at Edgbaston. Fine we didn't have Archer who can scare the tail with pace and bounce, but still a job on to turn 224/5 into a sub-300 score.

I wonder if Archer has that sort of spell in him here ? Starting to fear his exertions in the last two games have taken much of his top range...

Smith the Inevitable Hundred ... What can you say ? He seems unstoppable. Has kept Australia on top today despite the improved bowling , pretty well on his own,

Archer will be regretting that early drop.

[LondonTiger]

Steve Smith 

[Gooseberry]

One ends been open the entire innings. It's always been England vs Smith. And England haven't bowled well, conditions not withstanding

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Thoroughly fed up of watching Steve Smith bat

[Afro]

Says it all that he has outscored anyone else by 150 runs and missed 1 and a half tests

[Gooseberry]

Thoroughly fed up of watching Steve Smith bat

Alright Joe Root calm down

[LondonTiger]

Oh dear.

Roy has dropped a few this series, but that was pretty straightforward.

[eirebilly]

Roy's summer just keeps getting better and better doesn't it

[jimbohammers]

I used to think Roy was a good fielder. I was wrong

[eirebilly]

For me, Roy's confidence has been shot. He is not scoring with the bat, not fielding very well and does not look happy

[Soul Requiem]

I can't help but think a better captain would have some consistent plans to Smith, going back to 2005 I cannot imagine Vaughan letting him getting away like this.

[VTR]

Roy needs to go. A liability in the field and a non entity with the bat. Plays with none of the confidence that he brings to ODIs in either discipline. Get him out before we ruin him as an ODI player as well.

[LondonTiger]

Oh FFS

[Dolphin Ziggler]

OH MY GOD

[compelling and rich]

you are joking me

[eirebilly]

Wow, simply wow.

[VTR]

This is a shambles. England will be out for about 200 and end up being hammered. Stokes efforts will turn out to be a wasted

[eirebilly]

I really do not want to watch this but I strangely feel overly compelled to watch it.

Bad Captaincy, bad coaching and bad selections. Its just... well...

[GSC]

england have lost the plot since lunch

[Duty281]

Well a miserable day for England, no doubt. Best England can hope for now is the rain saving them, but the forecast has cleared up remarkably well, so that looks a forlorn hope.

Smith into the 140s...

[LondonTiger]

Anyone got any ideas about what is going on with archer this game. All the pace and fluency seems to have gone and he is bowling pretty much military medium. Is it just the cold, or does he have a strain?

[robbo277]

Bet365 has Australia at 20/21, Draw at 6/5 and England at 10/1. Echos what I was saying earlier, games probably gone for England now, but they need to bat well to ensure that they get a draw at least and keep the series alive.

England need to be batting at the end of Day 3 or 4 full sessions, whichever is later.

[eirebilly]

The game is as good as over already I fear. The Aussies scoring at over 3.5 an over (something England can only dream of) and looking well set to post 450+.

Just cant see England score 450 in two innings.

[Duty281]

Anyone got any ideas about what is going on with archer this game. All the pace and fluency seems to have gone and he is bowling pretty much military medium. Is it just the cold, or does he have a strain?

Bowled into the ground by Root in previous tests. Now he's nowhere near 100%. Root is clueless about a lot of things as captain, bowler management is one of them.

[Duty281]

Bet365 has Australia at 20/21, Draw at 6/5 and England at 10/1. Echos what I was saying earlier, games probably gone for England now, but they need to bat well to ensure that they get a draw at least and keep the series alive.

England need to be batting at the end of Day 3 or 4 full sessions, whichever is later.

Fantastic price available on Australia then.

[eirebilly]

England really do miss Woakes...

[alfie]

Missed most of the last hour...but I've read it all now ...oh dear

Going to take some really good batting or a lot of rain or Australia will have their Ashes boxed and bagged by Sunday evening... Going to be Over 400 now and recent form says England won't do well chasing that. Hope I'm wrong but I fear the play since lunch has just about drained whatever belief they had as a team clean away.

I feared this ever since the stupid selectors decided to sit on their hands after being handed a lifeline by Stoke last week , instead of taking the opportunity to do something bold like try to improve the team. Aussies must be laughing their heads off at the complacent attitude of the England management.
Not that they could do a lot about the bowling , to be fair. The problem there seems to be that Archer and Stokes left it all at Headingley so Broad is on his own here. And Overton is no world beater. But I reckon a couple of changes might have given the team a bit of a new spark instead of this apparent approach of let's just keep doing the same old thing...

Aah I'm just grumpy I guess. But I do feel the strategy and tactics in this series have been massively better from Australia (with the exception of a mad hour or so ten days ago !) England are just not getting the best out of their - limited - resources . Mostly , Australia are.

Anyway hats off to Smith

[It Must Be Love]

Sam Curran would have got Steve Smith out ages ago.

[Soul Requiem]

Anyone got any ideas about what is going on with archer this game. All the pace and fluency seems to have gone and he is bowling pretty much military medium. Is it just the cold, or does he have a strain?

I didn't much of it at the time but when he started bowling yesterday he was moving quite gingerly between deliveries so he must be nursing a strain of some sort.

[No name Bertie]

I suppose if you enjoy the sport of Cricket and are not too much of a fan boy or fan girl then you can sit back and enjoy the batting display of Steve Smith.  He is beginning to be compared to Donald Bradman.  

It seems that Steve Smith as a batsman is distinctly superior to the bowlers currently ranged against him in these conditions.  Is there anything Root can do as England's Captain to increase the chances of penetrating Steve Smith's armour to get him out?  There was a half-chance (quarter chance?) of a catch off Archer's bowling - and then there was the catch off a no-ball from Leach.

ps Maybe Australia have a chance this innings of batting England out of the game. If England post a low score in their innings then Australia might be in the position to enforce the follow on.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Time for the classic northern weather to set in the next few days...only hope now

[alfie]

Anyone got any ideas about what is going on with archer this game. All the pace and fluency seems to have gone and he is bowling pretty much military medium. Is it just the cold, or does he have a strain?

Bowled into the ground by Root in previous tests. Now he's nowhere near 100%. Root is clueless about a lot of things as captain, bowler management is one of them.

He certainly did overuse him. In fairness , he was being urged to do so by all the assembled media circus ! But this was what I have been banging on about since Lord's...he wasted Woakes while trying to use Archer for every role : opening bowler , enforcer , old ball workhorse...

I felt all along Archer would be best used like the Aussie quicks...rotated to remain at a peak. The loss of Anderson - and Wood , and even Stone , pretty much made that impossible...but they probably wouldn't have done it anyway. Stokes has been pretty much cooked after the last match too , by the way - though I guess he took that on himself !
If by some miracle they escape this with a draw , they really will have to think again about the team for the Oval. Heaven knows what they could do though...

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Stokes injured. Archer can’t get any pace. Overton appears to be a village player. Leach doesn’t understand what that line means.

Stuart, you need to somehow make these two bat left-handed

[eirebilly]

Its the small things that can change the game and momentum. That drop by Roy after lunch when Broad was bowling very well deflated the team.

Back that up with Roy not being able to buy a score is surely taking its toll on the team.

I am not blaming Roy, he is simply put in there. He is hardly going to say no now is he.

As I said earlier, Bad Captaincy, Bad Selections and Bad management is killing England in these Ashes.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Anyone got any ideas about what is going on with archer this game. All the pace and fluency seems to have gone and he is bowling pretty much military medium. Is it just the cold, or does he have a strain?

Bowled into the ground by Root in previous tests. Now he's nowhere near 100%. Root is clueless about a lot of things as captain, bowler management is one of them.

He certainly did overuse him. In fairness , he was being urged to do so by all the assembled media circus ! But this was what I have been banging on about since Lord's...he wasted Woakes while trying to use Archer for every role : opening bowler , enforcer , old ball workhorse...

I felt all along Archer would be best used like the Aussie quicks...rotated to remain at a peak. The loss of Anderson - and Wood , and even Stone , pretty much made that impossible...but they probably wouldn't have done it anyway. Stokes has been pretty much cooked after the last match too , by the way - though I guess he took that on himself !
If by some miracle they escape this with a draw , they really will have to think again about the team for the Oval.   Heaven knows what they could do though...

The rumour is that Archer suffered a flare up of his side issue after that Lords grind, and he is being managed in a similar way to he was during the World Cup (ie. bowl within himself, drugged up...)

[Gooseberry]

Cant agree that its Archer being bowled into the ground. He started yesterday slow but was getting many of his bouncers up to 90mph today. How has he got less tired overnight? They had a week off too.
Overall hes still bowled less in the previous tests than Cummins has.

[Soul Requiem]

I suppose if you enjoy the sport of Cricket and are not too much of a fan boy or fan girl then you can sit back and enjoy the batting display of Steve Smith.  He is beginning to be compared to Donald Bradman.  

It seems that Steve Smith as a batsman is distinctly superior to the bowlers currently ranged against him in these conditions.  Is there anything Root can do as England's Captain to increase the chances of penetrating Steve Smith's armour to get him out?  There was a half-chance (quarter chance?) of a catch off Archer's bowling - and then there was the catch off a no-ball from Leach.

ps Maybe Australia have a chance this innings of batting England out of the game.  If England post a low score in their innings then Australia might be in the position to enforce the follow on.

There's not doubting he's a great batsmen but there is very little to enjoy watching him play, the aesthetics are just awful and from a neutral point of view that matters more than scoring lots.

I have him on the Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis sort of level, the stats will say he's better but they had superior bowling line ups to face so balances out a bit.

[Gooseberry]

Only if that's true it rubbished my last post and really throws even more questions up about Englanda management of their bowlers and selection policies.

[eirebilly]

Root just is not an inspirational leader.

Really hope they can patch Stokes up, he is a leader and one that inspires his teammates.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Stokes now injured - lets just cancel the rest of this game and the final test, and pretend the only cricket that happened this summer was the World Cup and the Headingley Test

If they let Tim Paine score a hundred that'll be somehow worse than letting Peter Fulton score two in a series

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Curran drops a very sharp chance to catch Paine. Hard to be annoyed at him considering the rest of the chances and trash

[LondonTiger]

Sam Curran would have got Steve Smith out ages ago.

Not if he had to catch it

[alfie]

Time for the classic northern weather to set in the next few days...only hope now

It really shouldn't be ...this is a very benign surface. England ought to be able to respond in kind and bat until early Saturday. After which I guess Australia would be reluctant to set any sort of target due to the presence of Stokes...

But I guess no one here would back this England team to bat 100 overs in a fit.

Now Sam Curran drops Paine at mid on...just gets better , doesn't it ?

Archer not happy. Was a rubbish ball actually but catch should have been taken. Wheels have really come off.

[Soul Requiem]

Archer took 8 wickets at Headingley bowling largely line and length so why are England persisting with the short stuff?

[LondonTiger]

I suppose if you enjoy the sport of Cricket and are not too much of a fan boy or fan girl then you can sit back and enjoy the batting display of Steve Smith.  He is beginning to be compared to Donald Bradman.  

It seems that Steve Smith as a batsman is distinctly superior to the bowlers currently ranged against him in these conditions.  Is there anything Root can do as England's Captain to increase the chances of penetrating Steve Smith's armour to get him out?  There was a half-chance (quarter chance?) of a catch off Archer's bowling - and then there was the catch off a no-ball from Leach.

ps Maybe Australia have a chance this innings of batting England out of the game.  If England post a low score in their innings then Australia might be in the position to enforce the follow on.

There's not doubting he's a great batsmen but there is very little to enjoy watching him play, the aesthetics are just awful and from a neutral point of view that matters more than scoring lots.

I have him on the Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis sort of level, the stats will say he's better but they had superior bowling line ups to face so balances out a bit.

I do quite like the way his ugly style and the exaggerated mannerisms seem to get under England's skin. They spend a lot of time and energy oohing and ahing. I enjoy watching him play, though as an England fan I would prefer we could actually get him out for a more normal score.

[alfie]

Archer took 8 wickets at Headingley bowling largely line and length so why are England persisting with the short stuff?

Different pitch , of course. But they seem to go too readily to this bang it in option ... In fact that seems to be one of the reasons for picking Overton , no ?

Not working very well is it

Suppose at 349/5 they've long since run out of ideas.

[No name Bertie]

There's no doubting Steve Smith is a great batsman but there is very little to enjoy watching him play, the aesthetics are just awful and from a neutral point of view that matters more than scoring lots ... [paraphrased]

Steve Smith was first brought into the Australian line up as a spin bowler who could bat a bit.  It seems that Smith has developed his own idiosyncratic batting style that works for him.  Could this be the reason why the aesthetics of his batting might look awful to the connoisseur?  That is he is using a self-developed style rather than the classics styles one would normally be trained in.

[alfie]

Well I think I will leave you lot to it after tea...and Smith to his inevitable double...369/5 heading for 500 ?

I will miss the whole third day as will be flying throughout : hope to arrive at Heathrow to find England 350/3 in reply

[robbo277]

There's no doubting Steve Smith is a great batsman but there is very little to enjoy watching him play, the aesthetics are just awful and from a neutral point of view that matters more than scoring lots ... [paraphrased]

Steve Smith was first brought into the Australian line up as a spin bowler who could bat a bit.  It seems that Smith has developed his own idiosyncratic batting style that works for him.  Could this be the reason why the aesthetics of his batting might look awful to the connoisseur?  That is he is using a self-developed style rather than the classics styles one would normally be trained in.

Read on cricinfo that this is a bit of a myth. He played white ball before red ball and had a good T20 world cup with the ball, but as a first class player his batting has always been better.

From his wiki:

By the end of the 2009–10 domestic season, Smith had a first-class batting average of over 50 after 13 first-class matches. While his first-class bowling average in the high forties was not as impressive, his bowling appeared to be steadily improving following some well-publicised mentoring and praise from Shane Warne.

He was brought in as a bowler first because of Australia's dearth of spin bowling options, but it was more on what his bowling promised rather than what his bowling actually was. He debuted at 8, when they had Ponting, Clarke, Hussey and North at 3-6 and Paine keeping at 7. By the Ashes series (his second) he was in at 6 and a 5th bowling option. He got dropped after that and came back in as a lower middle order batsman and worked his way up as he scored more runs.

[robbo277]

Well I think I will leave you lot to it after tea...and Smith to his inevitable double...369/5 heading for 500 ?

I will miss the whole third day as will be flying throughout  : hope to arrive at Heathrow to find England 350/3 in reply

Root has to be our Smith. He's the captain, he needs to lead this batting team. He doesn't seem hungry enough when he bats. He looks comfortable, scores runs, gets out. Root needs to love batting as much as Smith does. Root and Stokes both have double tons, but no-one else really has that quality. Stokes stepped up last innings (and at Lords too), it's time for Root to take the responsibility and keep us in this series.

It's much easier for worse batsman to bat if they've got someone in absolute command at the other end. Smith has helped Head, Wade, Siddle and now Paine to innings of note in this series. Not match-winning contributions, but contributions that have aided Smith in winning the match. We need someone to bat with similar command and Root is the only one who can even come close (although the way he's played recently he's a long way behind).

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